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NEW EXTREMELY USEFUL Technique for DK (VID)
- Thread starter GimR
- Start date
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
NoJ does this to a dair with GaW often
I've known about it for a while, but the DK one seems to work very well. I also never knew about tripping to footstools. Is that inescapable if DK uses his buffers and gets there in time?
I've known about it for a while, but the DK one seems to work very well. I also never knew about tripping to footstools. Is that inescapable if DK uses his buffers and gets there in time?
i1337
Smash Ace
o_o this is amazing, i will do this great find
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Yes, I timed the one on CF pretty well and as you can see he barely hits the ground before I foot stool him.
Veggi
Smash Champion
I have to try this. I've been wanting a DK footstool combo but I couldn't think of one. The G&W one was awesome too.
CO18
Smash Hero
Pretty sweet.
uh, this combo isnt practical at all. are u seriously telling me that an opponent won't dodge OR use an uptilt/upsmash before one of us was to pull this off? yeah...right. On anything except a static dummy, this "combo" is a dud...much less top tier (and whether or not Brawl even HAS tiers is an extremely debatable concept in-and-of itself). Besides, the dtilt>foward b>down-b combo is far more practical, and deals more damage.
Veggi
Smash Champion
Considering I use footstool combos for Peach, yeah this would be effective. It's not like I just full jump on top of people. I footstool after a shield. Plus making a thread saying something is top tier is a joke. Brawl very much has tiers, just like every other fighting game. After down tilt they have to be at a low percentage for it not to knock them out of the way and you have to make them trip as well. Plus I'm not even sure if the combo you listed does more than the one in the thread. Both a side-b and a giant punch sounds like it would do alot of damage. Plus the combo you listed does not KO.
Luigi player
Smash Master
Well, that's partially true. Most of the time enemies will probably like never just stand there that you can footstool them oos, but it's useful to counter MKs glide attack it seems... and probably for some other attacks that are a bit laggy so you can footstool them, but not laggy enough for a side B.
And tiers do exist. That's a fact. People who don't "believe" in them are either underage or don't know what it means. So many characters can't be equally good, but I don't want to change this into a tier topic, so I'll just stop now >_>
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Umm... you can't D-tilt trip to Forward B, they can roll out of the way by then. A foot stool is INSTANT and gurantees the forward B.
Also I've been pulling off the trip to FS to ForwardB on my brother A LOT.(He isn't a scrub)
I even pulled off the forward B after MK's UpB, thats why I put it in the video
If you don't want to use it fine, your loss.
PS: if you guys start learning to power shield well it will make this even more useful.
good. im not the one who brought tiers into the argument; God is my rock, did. Unfortunately, everyone here is infatuated with comparing the success of their combos against MK. My final argument is this: MK, Snake, and to great degree Ike, are the most broken characters in Brawl, and should be banned immediately, and that, apart from those three characters, tiers do not exist. Maybe you like the idea of being an underdog too much to dismiss tiers. As for myself, DK is just another character, and it is my experience that knowledge of techniques/combos and the ability to execute such is the ultimate determining factor in a match.
Back to the real argument. Your statement that this "combo" will work against "laggy attacks" is, frankly, bull****. Laggy attacks should be countered by combos, such as the one I mentioned in my first post (see the "Good combos" section for a more complete list) or smash attacks, considering DKs considerable power. This is even truer once you take into account MK's weight. DK can ko MK at very low percentages, and using comboing/smash-attacking as a counter to "laggy moves" is the MOST EFFECTIVE means to winning a match.
i1337
Smash Ace
Four Leaf
Smash Journeyman
I think its a good find. I'm not completely sure of its practicality. For this to be useful, I'd assume it'd take a decent amount of practice. Not only that, but trying to pull it off is a risk in itself. At this junction in time, I'd be uncertain of my ability to pull that off even 80% of the time. How long did you practice this, and how often do you mess it up?
uh, regardless of what your bro is or isn't, the dtilt>forward-b>down-b combo is effective, (without prior knowledge of what im about to do, and even WITH prior knowledge). besides you completely ignored the fact that it is far less practical than a simple dtilt>neutral-b> or dtilt>down-b combo. The fact is, it takes far less effort to do one of those simple combos than to trip, footstool, use an over-b, then use a neutral-b, and the damage is the same. Please, be reasonable: the effort you are putting into it is merely taking up time you could be better using.
And a loss?...hardly.
Ryoko
Smash Rookie
All i have to say is, you sir, are ********. Kthxbai.
hey man, the feeling is mutual
icedragon-
Smash Rookie
That was a very good video. Thanks for sharing.
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Okay, I'm gonna say this one more time and thats it. D-tilt trip to forward b is escapable. Dtilt trip to FS to Forward B isn't escapable. Theres no arguing it. The latter is more effective. It's not that hard to do either.
actually, there is an argument. the fact that you're dismissing the argument proves you're wrong.
And, like you, im going to stress my main point, and in doing so, respectfully disagree. The PRACTICALITY of your combo IS NONEXISTANT. Are you seriously expecting to pull off, as you say, "Dtilt trip to FS to Forward B," when in close-combat? Doubtful.
Once I get a wired LAN adapter, we should set up a match. I'll be looking for that combo.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
I've been trying to do this since may, it only worked on a fox once so i thought it was a fluke, guess i just need to work on the timing
EDIT: DK1337, you're ********. you think ike is broken, which tells me you can't get around one of the worst characters in the game, the one known as a noob killer, you also are trying to debate that a combo we've all tried and escaped from works, it does not, you can move out of the way. and then you challenge them to an online game, online does not mean crap, I lose to people online that i 3 stock in person, its not a competitive game online.
also, tiers exist, because every character is separate and separate is not equal, so some characters are better then the others.
EDIT: DK1337, you're ********. you think ike is broken, which tells me you can't get around one of the worst characters in the game, the one known as a noob killer, you also are trying to debate that a combo we've all tried and escaped from works, it does not, you can move out of the way. and then you challenge them to an online game, online does not mean crap, I lose to people online that i 3 stock in person, its not a competitive game online.
also, tiers exist, because every character is separate and separate is not equal, so some characters are better then the others.
itsthebigfoot. really? you are seriously going to debate me on this? ok...lets go.
First of all, just because i think ike is broken does not mean i cannot beat him. the truth is, i beat ikes all the time, and i don't feel i have to prove it to you...though i would love to kick you're *** online somtime to prove my point (though you seem to think that isnt fair...so what is fair, hmmm? i can't exactly go to where u live and compete with u). Nevertheless, it is you who is ********, since you can't even focus on the topic at hand, which is the practicality of the combo you are supporting.
and no, tiers do not exist (apart from MK Snake and Ike) because Brawl is game based largely on skill. There are certain characters that are inherently good against others, but being that such a concept is circular, there will always be a character which is good against another.
Secondly, even if one character IS naturally better at defeating another, that natural ability can be nullified by HAVING MORE SKILL.
Percon
Smash Lord
Nice find. I knew about footstool combos in general but the DK one was pretty sick.
Veggi
Smash Champion
What we don't understand is how you say that tiers don't exist and then state that tiers do exist but only in the form of MK, Snake and Ike. Ike being a character that's below average. He has strong attacks, but few of them are effective due to their lack of speed and Ike is dragged down lower due to his bad recovery.
Tiers do exist because as long as one character is better than another (which they are) there will be tiers. Skill is the most important factor but I can't see how you can deny that it isn't the only factor. Characters that are better have a better chance of winning therefore tiers exist.
The combo listed does more damage and has better KO potential than the ones you listed so as long as enough skill is provided to complete the combo it is worth doing.
Let me first address your first position on ike. You mention the speed of his moves. Any good ike player can fast-fall many of his moves, namely his fair and upair, so please, take ffing into consideration, because it is one of the most important techs in Brawl.
Secondly his recovery. HOW is it bad? you never specified...so ill specify how it is pretty good. His over-b recovery is relatively good, but his up-b recovery is what is what makes ike broken, in my opinion. It gives him super-armor AND creates a hitbox in the area where he is about to jump to. With that being said, he cannot be edgeguarded.
Lastly, the combo which i mentioned as an alternative to the topic combo is FAR MORE PRACTICAL and DEALS the SAME DAMAGE (46%)!!! Unfortunately, no one cares if anyone can actually DO IT. In a match, are you going to be thinking about this combo all the time, or actually FIGHTING? The fact is, focusing on this combo so much takes your mind off of defense and adaption, which are key to winning a match, that you lessen your ability to actually fight! Simply put, you could practice this extremely complicated bullcrap, or you could hone your defensive and offensive skills! in the long run, this combo simply does not pay off.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
1) Ike's Fair and especially the Uair are sluggish moves in nature. The Up Aerial is so sluggish, in fact, that the main reasons I use it for are intercepting stall and falls and punishing high up airdodges.
2) Ike's recovery is mediocre at best. His Side B is a very poor recovery, and while Aether allows him to make it back very easily if he's under the edge, the problem is getting there. (He can be edgeguarded well enough, it's just that it's hard to flat out edgehog him.
3) Ike is not broken. At all. Ever.
Sorry to come in and partially derail the topic, but I don't like false things being said about Ike.
so you are seriously saying that a move that can go through the course is fair? really?
ook
Smash Lord
Guys, cmon... don't feed the obvious troll. 
That said, I like this footstool thing a lot, especially for punishing. Side-b is just too slow, so they always powershield me whenever I try it. This is really quick.
Doing it after the dtilt trip seems the most likely to work, but if you practice it enough you could probably use it just like second nature, for punishing. Really, if you get good at it and can do it every time, this is probably the best thing you can do to punish someone for a laggy attack (unless it's EXTREMELY laggy, when you would have time to just side-b normally).
thanks for the video, gonna use it
That said, I like this footstool thing a lot, especially for punishing. Side-b is just too slow, so they always powershield me whenever I try it. This is really quick.
Doing it after the dtilt trip seems the most likely to work, but if you practice it enough you could probably use it just like second nature, for punishing. Really, if you get good at it and can do it every time, this is probably the best thing you can do to punish someone for a laggy attack (unless it's EXTREMELY laggy, when you would have time to just side-b normally).
thanks for the video, gonna use it
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
It most certainly is. In fact, as a closing statement as this topic doesn't deserve to be derailed, I will give you a very highly guarded piece of Ike knowledge. Ike can only Aether onto the ledge a maximum of 5 times. After that, he'll have to land on the stage or he'll fail to grab the edge.
Veggi
Smash Champion
I don't understand why an Ike player would fast fall any move other than nair, all his other aerials end the hitbox and have lag upon touching the ground.
Light got most of it, but his side-b recovery need to be charged and it can also be gimped by jumping in front of it and you can airdodge in front of it to keep it from doing damage while Ike still goes into the attack animation and air cripple anyway. Fludd, Cape and all counters mess up Ike's aether very badly and people can tether stall to mess it up as well on top of it going a very small distance. All other characters can just edgehog his recovery and I've even had really bad players edgehog me easily while although gimpability wasn't all of what I was getting at. Ike can go left and right or up and down, not both at the same time. For example if Ike gets knocked off the edge and he is on level with the edge, Quick Draw wouldn't work and a small distance would put him out of Aether's range as well and this situation happens fairly often.
You say that your combos that can be escaped are more practical, however people have told you that they are escapable and the difficulty of doing something wouldn't matter to people who were good at Brawl as long as they were good enough to do it. From looking at it being done after MK's glide by someone who I don't think even mains DK, I don't think the difficulty will be keeping people away from it, not like difficulty is a bad thing anyway. No, people don't think about combos constantly, people notice openings and this requires an opening. Are you saying that we shouldn't punish moves anymore because we could focus on other things? Punishing moves is very important and finding a place to footstool is not hard, this is another way to punish and I'll do it provided I have enough skill to. This combo is legit too, which is more than what you have as your combos plus this one KO's and is useable at every percent. (Maybe not really early ones?)
Looks like it pays off to me.
efire_
Smash Rookie
:/
Firstly. Dk1337 has absolutely no tact and is kinda being a troll. k.
But. He's actually not being that extreme on some points. Not talking about ike or the combo, but about tiers. He's right - skill is the most important factor. A greatly skilled ike could easily destroy Snake (no ****, I know). Yes, it'll be an uphill battle, but skill does win out in the end.
I see it like this - tiers are just the list form of the amount of advantages relative to each character. Higher tier = more advantages (meaning better moves, agility, recovery, etc). The amount of those advantages (which vary in each matchup) determine the initial "slant" of the battle. Like...a see-saw. Then as the fight progresses, the "heavier" (ie more skilled) person manages to push their advantages over their opponent, and wins.
dk1337 is just focusing on that "skill weigh-in" part, and getting mad at the noobs that think tier defines everything in a match. I think.
Firstly. Dk1337 has absolutely no tact and is kinda being a troll. k.
But. He's actually not being that extreme on some points. Not talking about ike or the combo, but about tiers. He's right - skill is the most important factor. A greatly skilled ike could easily destroy Snake (no ****, I know). Yes, it'll be an uphill battle, but skill does win out in the end.
I see it like this - tiers are just the list form of the amount of advantages relative to each character. Higher tier = more advantages (meaning better moves, agility, recovery, etc). The amount of those advantages (which vary in each matchup) determine the initial "slant" of the battle. Like...a see-saw. Then as the fight progresses, the "heavier" (ie more skilled) person manages to push their advantages over their opponent, and wins.
dk1337 is just focusing on that "skill weigh-in" part, and getting mad at the noobs that think tier defines everything in a match. I think.
ClimbthatIce
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
- Messages
- 15
Since veggi is the finder this goes to u just a few questions if u wouldnt mind...straight to the point.
1) how long did it take u to master this? and on a scale of 1-10, what would u rate the difficulty of execution?
2) what do u think the practicality of using this in a real match is?
3) could u post a video of this technique in a real match? ur video only showed certain circumstances (all of which were against stationary targets accept one i think...MK's upB) but if u posted a real, professional fight in which u used this technique frequently against a well trained opponent im sure no one could agrue with u and i surely wouldnt question it
4)could u post a video of this strategy being used against more charactes than just MK, snake, and CF? I main IC...i know asking for videos is alot but i am really interested in this...
So far, its my opinion that while it is indeed an interesting find, and potentially useful no doubt with probably many chars in possibly many circumstances, how many times are u actually going to be put in a situation in which this technique could be used? and of those limited times how many times r u going succesfully execute it? Most combat, id say about 60%, happens in the air and this is ground specific =/ making the possibility even less often...
i hate the idea of tiers...but im not too sure this would push dk to top tier...considering alot of chars can do it like u showed...the Lucas one looked just as effective as DK's maybe more...i dont understand whos exactly top tier and whos not but if this pushes DK to top tier it would have to push Lucas there too...
Also i noticed that u weren't the first person to find this out...the original post was by Niko9876, though thanks for bringing it to light...
THanks alot =)
1) how long did it take u to master this? and on a scale of 1-10, what would u rate the difficulty of execution?
2) what do u think the practicality of using this in a real match is?
3) could u post a video of this technique in a real match? ur video only showed certain circumstances (all of which were against stationary targets accept one i think...MK's upB) but if u posted a real, professional fight in which u used this technique frequently against a well trained opponent im sure no one could agrue with u and i surely wouldnt question it
4)could u post a video of this strategy being used against more charactes than just MK, snake, and CF? I main IC...i know asking for videos is alot but i am really interested in this...
So far, its my opinion that while it is indeed an interesting find, and potentially useful no doubt with probably many chars in possibly many circumstances, how many times are u actually going to be put in a situation in which this technique could be used? and of those limited times how many times r u going succesfully execute it? Most combat, id say about 60%, happens in the air and this is ground specific =/ making the possibility even less often...
i hate the idea of tiers...but im not too sure this would push dk to top tier...considering alot of chars can do it like u showed...the Lucas one looked just as effective as DK's maybe more...i dont understand whos exactly top tier and whos not but if this pushes DK to top tier it would have to push Lucas there too...
Also i noticed that u weren't the first person to find this out...the original post was by Niko9876, though thanks for bringing it to light...
THanks alot =)
ClimbthatIce
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
- Messages
- 15
i dont see whats wrong with puting ur opinion out there...jeez =/
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
Amazing find! I'm gonna practice this and put it in the thread.
The Director
Smash Lord
Tricks that are very situational like this one will not affect DK's place on the tier list.
Tujex
Smash Ace
Good for shield abusers, but worthless otherwise.
I know plenty of shield abusers, and good toadstool combo with DK will allow me to punish them for it more since now they look for the grabs.
I know plenty of shield abusers, and good toadstool combo with DK will allow me to punish them for it more since now they look for the grabs.