New way to get rid of luma

[bushaheen]

Hello bowser mains recently i was messing around in training mode against a rosalina trying to figure out a easy and consistent way to get rid of luma and i just found that and im going to show you what it is in this thread.

When rosalina grabs the ledge she gets invincibility like every other character in the game.However luma dosent get any invincibility since he isent really a character so he dosent get invincibility so you actually could drop down and bair/up air to hit luma while rosalina is invincible and grabbing the ledge but that option isent safe since she can just spike you after you kill luma. But if you time your down b properly you can hit luma and steal the ledge from rosalina and forcing her to roll/jump/get up attack or make her get ledge trumped and although you will be in a disadvantage situation since you are the one now in the ledge she no longer has that pesky luma for a good 12 seconds.

To sum it up you can drop zone bair/u air to kill luma while rosalina is grabbing the ledge or time down b to hit luma and take the ledge from rosalina in a safe way.

im curious to hear your opinions on this new way to get rid of luma since rosalina seems to be a troublesome MU for most bowser mains

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Hey. I tested up a bit what you found, and while using down B close to the ledge to ledgetrump other characters is known fact, I agree that it is a cool way to inflict a good chunk of damage to Luma and/or straight kill it. However I dont understand why you say that being at the ledge afterwards is a bad situation ; at low percents, you will get a nice amount of invicibility frames, meaning that the ledgetrumped Rosalina cant immediately retaliate. A ledge trump also obviously means that if you react fast, you can buffer a nice Back Air that will surely kill Rosa at about 60%, wich is obviously neat. But if you choose to get back on the ledge safely, you can act differently depending on how that Rosa will try to get back on the stage. If she chooses to grab the ledge again, she will be vulnerable, meaning that you can hit her again with a Bowser bomb with a nice timing, or with a Down tilt, wich hits people hanging at the ledge. If she jumps to try to get on the stage, you can even, for exemple, charge an Up Smash, wich will hit her since she will have no good way to get on her feet safely, and even if she tries to attack you from above, she cant hurt you because your shell is invincible during the Up smash.

Hope this helps.

 

[bushaheen]

what i mean by being in a bad situation is that when you down b most rosalinas will react and roll on and thus she is on stage and you are on the ledge

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Well technically speaking, the only reason you would use Down B to the ledge is when she is recovering. You just got to time your attack well so that when you grab the ledge, you ledgetrump. Of course that if you use it too late, she will be able to avoid your bomb thanks to invincibility, not get ledge trumped, and Get up/roll on the stage (except if she jumps, then she will get hit).

 

[Pixel_]

Well technically speaking, the only reason you would use Down B to the ledge is when she is recovering. You just got to time your attack well so that when you grab the ledge, you ledgetrump. Of course that if you use it too late, she will be able to avoid your bomb thanks to invincibility, not get ledge trumped, and Get up/roll on the stage (except if she jumps, then she will get hit).

Ledge roll, ledge jump, and ledge attack all take priority over ledge trump, so if Rosalina is able to react fast and do any of these, then she'll end up onstage while you're on the ledge

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

You guys ever ledge trumpd someone or? Its been twice in this thread that I said "Time your attack well". Won't say it again.

 

[Pixel_]

What I'm saying is that a ledge trump is never guaranteed, no matter the timing; if the opponent chooses one of the three options fast enough, they'll escape it every time. I can't find any sources that directly confirm this (I'm pretty sure of it from personal experience), but I have sources anyway:
https://youtu.be/2vVug_cxA6A
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Edge-guarding#Ledge_Trump

 

[Big Sean]

This is a cool find. Unfortunately rosalina's can usually mix up their recovery so that there would be no way you can do this consistently. If i mistime it, I'm like in the worst situation imaginable. Against a rosalina + luma while hanging off the ledge.

https://youtu.be/V874pcR0tJM?t=365

 

[bushaheen]

hey i remember seeing that situation and even tho it seems like its inescapable there is a way to escape it that i found long ago i just didnt know how to show it. if you make your self to get hit by luma multiple times he will slowly get pushed of until you can jump of the ledge and not get hit by luma then you can punish rosalina for doing that option. if you want to test it just play against a rosalina in training mode and make someone do the jabs near the ledge and try making yourself get hit by luma multiple times. you will realise that he is getting pushed away slowly and keep doing that until you can jump from the ledge then punish rosalina with a back air or a side b or even down b if you predict a shield.

also you can go to the other ledge if your playing in smashville since smashville is very short lengthed to the point that you can actually go to the other ledge very easily.

 

[pitfall356]

I don't think eating a huge chunk of damage is the best answer. Impaling yourself on someone's sword just to get stage control is a little detrimental to self, don't you think?

 

[bushaheen]

I don't think eating a huge chunk of damage is the best answer. Impaling yourself on someone's sword just to get stage control is a little detrimental to self, don't you think?

lumas hits deal 1 percent each and after around 4 hits he will be far enough so that you dont stuck in the situation lord mix was in vs vinnes rosalina and luma and im pretty sure getting hit by 5 percent and escaping the situation is better than staying there until the time runs out dont you think that?

 

[Big Sean]

That's actually the easier edgeguard to deal with. If Vinnie knew what he was doing he would have done this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20frL-tzKs. That one is pretty much impossible to deal with. Even if you land on the stage they have enough time to end jab and charge up smash.

 

[bushaheen]

That's actually the easier edgeguard to deal with. If Vinnie knew what he was doing he would have done this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20frL-tzKs. That one is pretty much impossible to deal with. Even if you land on the stage they have enough time to end jab and charge up smash.

your right about this one seeming inescapable but im not gonna stand there and do nothing i will try to teach my brother to do this tech (assuming he will bother with me XD) then i will try EVERYTHING and see if there is a way to avoid it and then ill update you if i found a way

edit:after some testing with my brother i learned the following things about escaping the rosalina edgeguard you were talking about

1-you can bowser bomb and be comepley fine
2-if you cant bowser bomb you can try to hit rosalina with neutral b and interrupt her jabs
3-if you cant do either of those things becouse lets say you were too far offstage the best you can do it to up-b back on stage to bait rosalina to stop the jabs but then drift backwards to the ledge to avoid landing on stage and getiing f-smashed
4-other than that remember that rosalina needs alot of time to do that set up and the only way she will have all the time to do so is when your at high percents and is very far offstage and in that situation its truly inescapeable and the only thing i can think of to escape it is to smash di the jabs but in that situation your at high percent anyways and your offstage so it really isent as big of a deal that your dieing to that set up anyways

overall all that i can tell you is that the set up is good but not THAT good

side note( i edited this post instead of makeing a new post to avoid double posting)