Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well they shouldn't be worried, because by the end of Ultimate's development, it had just as many newcomers as any other Smash game.

They lost out on nothing. They just had to wait longer to get it.

And spend 60 more dollars.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And spend 60 more dollars.

And if you wanted most of those newcomers to be first-party (like me) you were screwed due to DLC prioritizing third-parties.

 

[Gengar84]

It's not a question of if they can, it's a question of whether their typical budget will yield them their typical windfall. And it will. That's why they never need to spend as much as the other guys.

Because people are still going to be buying Smash even if it has several dozen characters instead of all possible veterans. You're not sacrificing big numbers by not bringing everyone back, because the audience will be there regardless.

I’d actually argue that the Switch 2’s backwards compatibility may actually negatively affect the sales of Smash 6 if the roster is either too similar to Ultimate’s or seen as a downgrade. If it’s too similar, people would likely have a hard time justifying paying $60-$70 for mostly the same game again they can already play on the console. If they cut back the roster too much to the suggested 50-60 characters, I think they’d struggle to fit enough newcomers while keeping all the essential veterans. If you want a 50 character roster with a good amount of newcomers, you’re probably only keeping around 35 veterans, which probably isn’t enough. I feel like people might just stick with Ultimate for the same reasons in this case. However, this could potentially be helped by expansive single player and co-op options and modes.

 

[Schnee117]

And spend 60 more dollars.

****'s gonna cost even more than that if they wanna push for longer dlc support with more content

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I’d actually argue that the Switch 2’s backwards compatibility may actually negatively affect the sales of Smash 6 if the roster is either too similar to Ultimate’s or seen as a downgrade. If it’s too similar, people would likely have a hard time justifying paying $60-$70 for mostly the same game again they can already play on the console. If they cut back the roster too much to the suggested 50-60 characters, I think they’d struggle to fit enough newcomers while keeping all the essential veterans. If you want a 50 character roster with a good amount of newcomers, you’re probably only keeping around 35 veterans, which probably isn’t enough. I feel like people might just stick with Ultimate for the same reasons in this case. However, this could potentially be helped by expensive single player and co-op options and modes.

Yeah, but what if that new game has some actual ****ing modes to play?

Bring back some kind of target mode, make All-Star mode not complete ass, do some **** that gives the game stuff that's worth playing.

Having a better netcode for online play and more online features, even if just using stuff already available online like Squad Strike, would also benefit a lot.

If they aren't able to justify the new Smash with its roster, they have other ways to make it worth buying.

 

[Guynamednelson]

****'s gonna cost even more than that if they wanna push for longer dlc support with more content

It's okay, according to DarthEnderX's fantasy world people have unlimited money to spend on a century of Fighters Passes.

...in all seriousness, Nintendo being hesitant to reduce the prices of their games anyway aside, I wonder if all the licensed content between SSBU and its DLC makes it outright impossible to reduce the prices of the base game+DLC so the price of a complete SSBU roster (especially in a situation where they do decide to just do more DLC for it) isn't overwhelming to new buyers?

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, but what if that new game has some actual ****ing modes to play?

Bring back some kind of target mode, make All-Star mode not complete ass, do some **** that gives the game stuff that's worth playing.

Having a better netcode for online play and more online features, even if just using stuff already available online like Squad Strike, would also benefit a lot.

If they aren't able to justify the new Smash with its roster, they have other ways to make it worth buying.

Yeah I agree. I’d definitely buy the game for an expansive co-op story mode like Subspace Emissary and the return of iconic modes like character specific Break the Targets and improved Stage Builder. However, if I don’t like the roster as much, I’d likely go back to Ultimate instead once I’m done playing all those modes. I don’t play online so things like better netcode mean nothing to me personally.

 

[dream1ng]

I’d actually argue that the Switch 2’s backwards compatibility may actually negatively affect the sales of Smash 6 if the roster is either too similar to Ultimate’s or seen as a downgrade. If it’s too similar, people would likely have a hard time justifying paying $60-$70 for mostly the same game again they can already play on the console. If they cut back the roster too much to the suggested 50-60 characters, I think they’d struggle to fit enough newcomers while keeping all the essential veterans. If you want a 50 character roster with a good amount of newcomers, you’re probably only keeping around 35 veterans, which probably isn’t enough. I feel like people might just stick with Ultimate for the same reasons in this case. However, this could potentially be helped by expensive single player and co-op options and modes.

Most of Smash's sales will come from the fact that it's a new Smash game with new exciting characters and the same iconic staples. The masses might be disappointed certain characters aren't there, but they're not picky enough overall that it will really outweigh the aforementioned stuff.

I mean, would you still buy a Mario Kart game with less initial content and missing a few of your favorite courses? I would. It's Mario Kart, and more will come.

That's why new games can launch with substantially less content than a previous iteration eventually accumulated through DLC and people will still buy the game, because it's new content, and they trust the IP.

Also, backwards compatibility is really just something to help incentivize the existing install base while adding a little bit more value to the old games over something that really prohibits the potential of new software. If it truly hindered the performance of new games, the console makers wouldn't include it.

 

[CannonStreak]

Since we are talking about content, I must ask…

Anyone miss Board the Platforms from Smash 64?

 

[Ivander]

Will always hope for Smash Run to return. Or at least a very Mob-based mode. Like I said, even having a mode where you fight Mobs on the stages would be good in my book.

 

[Gengar84]

Most of Smash's sales will come from the fact that it's a new Smash game with new exciting characters and the same iconic staples. The masses might be disappointed certain characters aren't there, but they're not picky enough overall that it will really outweigh the aforementioned stuff.

I mean, would you still buy a Mario Kart game with less initial content and missing a few of your favorite courses? I would. It's Mario Kart, and more will come.

That's why new games can launch with substantially less content than a previous iteration eventually accumulated through DLC and people will still buy the game, because it's new content, and they trust the IP.

Also, backwards compatibility is really just something to help incentivize the existing install base while adding a little bit more value to the old games over something that really prohibits the potential of new software. If it truly hindered the performance of new games, the console makers wouldn't include it.

True, but my point is that the two most suggested directions mean we probably won’t get many newcomers. If we go with “Ultimate Deluxe”, we’re probably only getting a few characters at most. This seems pretty pointless to me now that backwards compatibility is confirmed. The second is a more standard Smash with a much smaller roster of around 50-60 characters. The problem there is that we have so many essential “must have” characters that would be hard to cut in order to fit a sizeble amount of newcomers. We’d essentially have to go back to Brawl size for the veterans if you want the usual 15 or so newcomers.

As for Mario Kart, I feel like I’d actually sooner buy Mario Kart 8 Deluxe than Mario Kart 9 if there’s significantly less content. I owned vanilla 8 on the Wii U but never bought Deluxe. I’ve been really tempted with all the additional stages added to the game. I’m not entirely sure what 9 can offer that exceeds 8 deluxe but hopefully I’ll be pleasantly surprised. Mario Kart also has less expectation to bring back as many tracks from previous games compared to Smash. That means you can essentially have a completely fresh set of stages every game. In order for Smash to do the same with its playable characters, we’d have to cut a ton of otherwise essential characters every game.

Since we are talking about content, I must ask…

Anyone miss Board the Platforms from Smash 64?

Yeah, I liked Board the Platforms. Maybe it’s a bit redundant with Break the Targets but I don’t mind. I think the best way to do both is let players select either as an option when creating a stage in stage builder. That way players can create and share their own mini game stages and essentially have endless options.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Since we are talking about content, I must ask…

Anyone miss Board the Platforms from Smash 64?

I think Board the Platforms and Break the Targets could be combined into one mode.

It would be cool if they used the platforms in that mode to teach stuff like wavelanding, too. Or maybe that would be more fitting for a tutorial mode, I guess.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think Board the Platforms and Break the Targets could be combined into one mode.

It would be cool if they used the platforms in that mode to teach stuff like wavelanding.

Honestly, if you ask me, that would be SO cool!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think Board the Platforms and Break the Targets could be combined into one mode.

BOARD THE TARGETS!

 

[CannonStreak]

BOARD THE TARGETS!

You have it down wrong, for it is…

BREAK THE PLATFORMS!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have a gut feeling that will continue to slip by if Palutena's Guidance sticks around.

If Palutena's Temple stuck around, but Palutena herself didn't, I'd imagine they'd just keep the easter egg as is, with all of the newcomers getting the "Intruder from an alternate dimension!" convo.

BOARD THE TARGETS!

You have it down wrong, for it is…

BREAK THE PLATFORMS!

Actually, you're both right. It's a vs game where player 1 tries to stand on all the targets, while player 2 tries to break all of the platforms that player 1 wants to stand on. The winning team is who stood on/broke the most targets.

 

[The Prankster 16]

And if you wanted most of those newcomers to be first-party (like me) you were screwed due to DLC prioritizing third-parties.

Idk, i feel like having the DLC be made of mostly 3rd parties is a very smart business decision. DLC is meant for keeping the game alive and reviving interest every few months, and 3rd party characters are the best for that because it might bring interest from people who would not have bought the game otherwise. Imo it’s best to stack the base game with 1st parties with a few reasonable 3rd party picks, then save the real hypemakers for the DLC for that extra cash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Idk, i feel like having the DLC be made of mostly 3rd parties is a very smart business decision. DLC is meant for keeping the game alive and reviving interest every few months, and 3rd party characters are the best for that because it might bring interest from people who would not have bought the game otherwise. Imo it’s best to stack the base game with 1st parties with a few reasonable 3rd party picks, then save the real hypemakers for the DLC for that extra cash.

Yeah yeah I know that, just saying that having most of a game's newcomers be DLC is bad for people who care about first-parties still.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Unless things change drastically, and when I say drastically I mean VERY drastically there are at least 15 franchises that will never disappear from Smash:
-Pokemon
-Mario
-Zelda
-Kirby
-Animal Crossing
-Splatoon
-Pikmin
-Metroid
-Xenoblade Chronicles
-Fire Emblem
These are the ten most active and important franchises from Nintendo today. Then we could add Donkey Kong, F-Zero, Star Fox, Earthbound and Kid Icarus for the legacy they have.
No protagonist or mascot of these franchises will miss a single Smash, and that is something we should all know by now.
In fact, if we start receiving Famicom Detective Club games every three years (as we have since 2021) and one ARMS per generation, don't be surprised if they join this list. Also, unless Nintendo removes Miis for good, I doubt they will disappear from Smash.

And Unless things sour with Sega im sure Sonic is part of this list too given how he's been in every Smash since his debut.

 

[Gengar84]

And Unless things sour with Sega im sure Sonic is part of this list too given how he's been in every Smash since his debut.

Interestingly, this is also true for every third party character other than Snake. Sonic did debut earlier than all the others (besides Snake) though so that definitely counts for something.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Interestingly, this is also true for every third party character other than Snake. Sonic did debut earlier than all the others (besides Snake) though so that definitely counts for something.

I think it’s there but for a smaller extent for the Microsoft and Square Enix characters. Just because almost all the content they have in Smash was through DLC, and they might hold off on adding that in until they can make people pay for it.

 

[Shinuto]

Since we are talking about content, I must ask…

Anyone miss Board the Platforms from Smash 64?

It was the GOAT...

 

[Diddy Kong]

What if the next Smash is just DLC for Ultimate? But its huge.

They'll say it had something to do with licencing and stuff and they keep continuing to update Ultimate forever basically. Or at least coming 10 years or so.

What would your reaction be?

 

[Kirbeh]

What if the next Smash is just DLC for Ultimate? But its huge.

They'll say it had something to do with licencing and stuff and they keep continuing to update Ultimate forever basically. Or at least coming 10 years or so.

What would your reaction be?

That would depend entirely on what content we'd actually be getting.

I've had, and still do have fun with Ultimate, but if it were to continue I'd need a major balance shake up and new additions to old characters as well. Kinda like how some games like GGS and SFV added new moves and universal mechanics during major updates.

If it was only "more stuff" (ie; just a couple characters, stages, and spirits), that'd probably be okay, but wouldn't really fix the issues I have with Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

You have it down wrong, for it is…

BREAK THE PLATFORMS!

Genuinely, though, a destructable stage could be really fun (Or really painful, depending on your mood).

On that note, I played Worms a while back and it was some good dumb fun. And it does, in fact, have highly destructable arenas.

You get where I'm going with this?

 

[RodNutTakin]

What if the next Smash is just DLC for Ultimate? But its huge.

They'll say it had something to do with licencing and stuff and they keep continuing to update Ultimate forever basically. Or at least coming 10 years or so.

What would your reaction be?

You mean like...I dunno, giving SSBU the "A Realm Reborn" treatment or something like that?

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I’d actually argue that the Switch 2’s backwards compatibility may actually negatively affect the sales of Smash 6 if the roster is either too similar to Ultimate’s or seen as a downgrade. If it’s too similar, people would likely have a hard time justifying paying $60-$70 for mostly the same game again they can already play on the console. If they cut back the roster too much to the suggested 50-60 characters, I think they’d struggle to fit enough newcomers while keeping all the essential veterans. If you want a 50 character roster with a good amount of newcomers, you’re probably only keeping around 35 veterans, which probably isn’t enough. I feel like people might just stick with Ultimate for the same reasons in this case. However, this could potentially be helped by expansive single player and co-op options and modes.

Yup. It's crystal clear what the way forward is, no matter how much people refuse to see it

 

[Ivander]

You mean like...I dunno, giving SSBU the "A Realm Reborn" treatment or something like that?

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate gets destroyed and then is reborn into a new Super Smash Bros. Ultimate! I mean, that's how A Realm Reborn begins, with the outright destruction and rebirth of the world.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate gets destroyed and then is reborn into a new Super Smash Bros. Ultimate! I mean, that's how A Realm Reborn begins, with the outright destruction and rebirth of the world.

I guess something like that? Basically Ultimate with a different focus and notable gameplay improvements.
Something like Spirits being heavily de-emphasized/replaced with collectable cards, Smash Run becoming the new main attraction again, the stage roster being significantly altered, that kind of thing.

 

[NintenRob]

What if the next Smash is just DLC for Ultimate? But its huge.

They'll say it had something to do with licencing and stuff and they keep continuing to update Ultimate forever basically. Or at least coming 10 years or so.

What would your reaction be?

Would this DLC come with a bevvy of new assist trophies, items, stages and modes that we only usually expect with new games

 

[Idon]

If you want a permanent cast of non-rotating selectable characters in a game that will stay relatively the same forever with just added DLC please go ahead and play League of Legends for the rest of your life.

I'd like for my fighting games to change and not be the same game 5, 10, 20, whatever years after launch.

 

[NintenRob]

If you want a permanent cast of non-rotating selectable characters in a game that will stay relatively the same forever with just added DLC please go ahead and play League of Legends for the rest of your life.

I'd like for my fighting games to change and not be the same game 5, 10, 20, whatever years after launch.

Could we not just say the same in the opposite direction. If you want a constantly rotating cast with cuts and change, go play street fighter?

This feels like a very silly thing to say

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Would this DLC come with a bevvy of new assist trophies, items, stages and modes that we only usually expect with new games

Can't see what's stopping them from doing this if they want to, aside from the fact that they've never done it up until now.
Stages are a given, but modes in particular would work very well as DLC in my opinion.

Though maybe they haven't done this because 90% of the engagement is in the multiplayer mode and they want to just focus their efforts on that.

 

[Schnee117]

Some day y'all will learn that infinite growth is completely unsustainable.
Unfortunate that it won't be in 2024.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Some day y'all will learn that infinite growth is completely unsustainable.
Unfortunate that it won't be in 2024.

Hey I didn't choose to live in a capitalistic society, but since we're here let me at least have my gargantuan Smash Brothers bonanza.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What if the next Smash is just DLC for Ultimate? But its huge.

They'll say it had something to do with licencing and stuff and they keep continuing to update Ultimate forever basically. Or at least coming 10 years or so.

What would your reaction be?

No thanks. I like Ultimate, but turning it into what essentially boils down to a Games as a Service game for the next decade (meaning Ultimate persists through the entirety of the Switch 2's life cycle and beyond) irks me immensely.

Give me something new to play, even if cuts have to happen. We'll get some of em back as DLC anyway, and I don't want to play one continuous Smash game from the age of 22 to 38.

 

[Idon]

Could we not just say the same in the opposite direction. If you want a constantly rotating cast with cuts and change, go play street fighter?

This feels like a very silly thing to say

Well you're missing the point; the fact Street Fighter and League are fundamentally different is fine.

The difference is I'm not asking Street Fighter to go live service and keep Projectile into Drive Rush gameplay and characters until I die or League being a different premium product every 5 years just like I'm not asking Smash Bros to be the same for my lifetime either.

Smash changing and moreover, at least trying to improve and innovate is what Smash is at its core, at least in my opinion. Smash is already an incredibly legacy-focused series, going past that to the point where we play the just same game for the next decade or so just makes me nauseous to think about.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Hello, my fellow members.​

I'll be returning again, never be me asked again by you and other fellow members. Never me answered by my fellow members and you. Never me gets quoted by you.

We're too late for you!

Right be back! lah.​

 

[Dinoman96]

So...about that Sony/Kadokawa takeover...

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/News/Press/202412/24-1219E/

Tokyo, Japan - KADOKAWA CORPORATION ("KADOKAWA") and Sony Group Corporation ("Sony") today signed a strategic capital and business alliance agreement, agreeing to conduct a third-party allotment by KADOKAWA to Sony on January 7, 2025, with Sony acquiring 12,054,100 new KADOKAWA shares for approximately 50 billion yen. With the acquisition of the new shares, Sony will become KADOKAWA's largest shareholder, holding approximately 10% of its shares, including the shares Sony previously acquired in February 2021.

KADOKAWA and Sony historically have collaborated on various projects, and through this capital and business alliance, intend to further strengthen our collaboration to maximize both companies' IP value globally and facilitate wider and deeper collaboration, such as potential joint investments in the content field, joint discovery of new creators, and joint promotion of further media mixes of both companies' IP. In the future, the two companies plan to discuss specific initiatives for collaboration, such as initiatives to adapt KADOKAWA's IP into live-action films and TV dramas globally, co-produce anime works, expand global distribution of KADOKAWA's anime works through the Sony Group, further expand publishing of KADOKAWA's games, and develop human resources to promote and expand virtual production.

So the outcome of this wasn't as catastrophic as we feared, for now at least.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Interestingly, this is also true for every third party character other than Snake. Sonic did debut earlier than all the others (besides Snake) though so that definitely counts for something.

Given that we have yet to see what happens to the ones introduced in Ultimate, we can't talk about them.

And since Ultimate was deliberately made with bringing back everyone in mind, we can't talk about the ones introduced in Smash 4 either.

This leaves only Sonic as the special bean who appeared in more than one game when not counting Ultimate.