Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[MBRedboy31]

Oh believe me, I don't outright expect anyone on my wishlist to make it in.
Wishlists are typically just that, wishes. It's all hopeful thinking.
Nothing will raise my expectations unless they start announcing the newcomers and the choices are really interesting and non-standard.

I know, but, when people post Smash wishlists for example, it feels like there's a chance at least one of their wants will get in, even if it's incredibly unlikely. Mario Kart doesn't feel like it has that chance to me.

 

[Noipoi]

If Microsoft comes in hot with like a dozen games in the Switch’s first year, I would find it difficult to argue against their involvement in Smash moving forward. And furthermore if Master Chief Collection is one of those games (I believe it will be… we’ve been hearing murmurs of this for years) I really just think the man himself becomes one of the most likely third party characters by a strong margin.

EVERYONE*
IS
HERE

*from Microsoft

 

[Gengar84]

If Microsoft comes in hot with like a dozen games in the Switch’s first year, I would find it difficult to argue against their involvement in Smash moving forward. And furthermore if Master Chief Collection is one of those games (I believe it will be… we’ve been hearing murmurs of this for years) I really just think the man himself becomes one of the most likely third party characters by a strong margin.

I’m good with that. Microsoft actually owns a lot of my most wanted characters so whatever gives them a better chance for Smash is cool. My favorites are outside the generally speculated Microsoft characters but I don’t think any are completely out of the question.

 

[dream1ng]

It would be cool if there were all sorts of older Xbox owned exclusives that ended up on Switch 2. I'm not saying modern versions of Blinx the Time Sweeper are necessarily going to sell like gangbusters but it is the sort of deep cut that I'd appreciate Nintendo and Microsoft doing in additon to really obvious stuff like Psychonauts.

Blinx seems like the kind of port that would happen in the last year of the console's life lol

But I'm sure we'll get some collections of older games. It's hard to come up with which IPs MS actually owned from the OG/360 days tbh, apart from a few

If Microsoft comes in hot with like a dozen games in the Switch’s first year, I would find it difficult to argue against their involvement in Smash moving forward. And furthermore if Master Chief Collection is one of those games (I believe it will be… we’ve been hearing murmurs of this for years) I really just think the man himself becomes one of the most likely third party characters by a strong margin.

Main thing really standing in his way then is Japan

But the double edged sword is that... Japan really isn't doing any MS character any favors. Even Crash, who did well there in the PS1 days, hasn't really hit since then.

Edit: I guess Skyrim did well. Keeping track of all the MS IP is exhausting lol

EVERYONE*
IS
HERE

*from Microsoft

Clippy boss fight let's go

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even still, Daisy is carried by being a foil to a more popular and well known character. If the asset reuse didn't allow for it, she wouldn't be in most of the games she's in. And Wonder is part of that, like 99% of her animations are shared with Peach. She is Peach 2, and so she looks like it.

Be that as it may, they are still using her, and more frequently as of late at that. Could that stop after Super Mario Bros. Wonder? Well considering even Luigi is considered low priority if there's no mechanical reason to add him I wouldn't put it past them. However, if we keep getting mainline games with a focus on multiplayer and/or swapping between multiple different playable characters, it might just become more frequent.

 

[Guynamednelson]

EVERYONE*
IS
HERE

*from Microsoft

tfw you show up to a Smash 6 tourney and your opponent mains Badly Modeled Nissan Silvia from Forza

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If Microsoft comes in hot with like a dozen games in the Switch’s first year, I would find it difficult to argue against their involvement in Smash moving forward. And furthermore if Master Chief Collection is one of those games (I believe it will be… we’ve been hearing murmurs of this for years) I really just think the man himself becomes one of the most likely third party characters by a strong margin.

I think the funniest possible outcome for that for me would be if Rare Replay gets put on Switch 2 or something, just so I can say all the Banjo games are on Switch and Switch 2 since I think Rare Replay includes Nuts and Bolts lol

EDIT: Well, I guess not all, still no Pilot or Grunty's Revenge, but they're GBA games so there is a chance technically for those on NSO lol

 

[Louie G.]

Main thing really standing in his way then is Japan

But the double edged sword is that... Japan really isn't doing any MS character any favors. Even Crash, who did well there in the PS1 days, hasn't really hit since then.

Yeah - although frankly I’m convinced of a couple things in this respect that counteract any of those concerns for me.

One, that MCC being on Switch will be seen as the perfect way to garner new interest in the series overseas, and Master Chief in Smash can contribute to that effort. And two, Chief is strong enough iconography in his own right not to be too wildly obscure… Halo has seen brief glimpses of moderate success or promotion overseas that probably make him an identifiable figure even if vaguely.

But I do think the strongest case is Microsoft’s transition to being a multiplat publisher allowing its games to reach wider audiences through the far more popular consoles of its ex-competitors. Chief Collection being strapped to Xbox and PC is not helping its case for JP players, but if it ends up on Playstation and Nintendo this year the stage is set for another chance.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I know, but, when people post Smash wishlists for example, it feels like there's a chance at least one of their wants will get in, even if it's incredibly unlikely. Mario Kart doesn't feel like it has that chance to me.

Especially since they generally play it safe. I feel like DK games are the only sub-series where isn’t just two characters maximum that appear in spin-offs.

Not even sure if any of the Wario characters appeared outside of the Wario games and cameos such as in Smash. At least one of the Paper Mario characters appeared in 64 DS and Kart DS.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah - although frankly I’m convinced of a couple things in this respect that counteract my concern toward that.

One, that MCC being on Switch will be seen as the perfect way to garner new interest in the series overseas, and Master Chief in Smash can contribute to that effort. And two, Chief is strong enough iconography in his own right not to be too wildly obscure… Halo has seen brief glimpses of moderate success or promotion overseas that probably make him an identifiable figure even if vaguely.

But I think the strongest case is Microsoft’s transition to being a multiplat publisher allows its games to reach wider audiences through the far more popular consoles of its past competitors. Chief Collection being strapped to Xbox and PC is not helping its case for JP players, but if it ends up on Playstation and Nintendo this year the stage is set for another chance.

That's true that MS IP will no longer have its potential so constrained by its platform, and Halo at least had sales potential back in the day over there. So it has some promise in being able to do well once on other systems... but I'm going to wait until it does before Japan isn't still an issue.

That said, obviously Chief or other western-oriented characters can still get in, it's just... a hindrance until further developments.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean Master Chief at least has name recognition in Japan, even if it's often in the context of "that character is famous in America".

It's all a moot point if the put out a Japan appeal character close to or at the same time as his release, but still.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Professor E. Gadd and the Mario RPG characters aren't in any of the spin-offs because they're created by different subsidiaries. Theoretically the reason why Waluigi isn't in Wario Land or WarioWare, and why Professor E. Gadd's role in Mario's world building was completely abandoned.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Here's hoping that now that they have a slightly more powerful console, Square enix wont cheap out with a Kingdom hearts port.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah - although frankly I’m convinced of a couple things in this respect that counteract any of those concerns for me.

One, that MCC being on Switch will be seen as the perfect way to garner new interest in the series overseas, and Master Chief in Smash can contribute to that effort. And two, Chief is strong enough iconography in his own right not to be too wildly obscure… Halo has seen brief glimpses of moderate success or promotion overseas that probably make him an identifiable figure even if vaguely.

But I do think the strongest case is Microsoft’s transition to being a multiplat publisher allowing its games to reach wider audiences through the far more popular consoles of its ex-competitors. Chief Collection being strapped to Xbox and PC is not helping its case for JP players, but if it ends up on Playstation and Nintendo this year the stage is set for another chance.

Also I'm like 100% certain one of the games Microsoft is putting on Switch 2 is Doom: The Dark Ages, considering 2016 and Eternal ended up on Switch, so Doomguy just keeps on trucking along like he has been lol

 

[dream1ng]

I wouldn't be surprised if Professor E. Gadd and the Mario RPG characters aren't in any of the spin-offs because they're created by different subsidiaries. Theoretically the reason why Waluigi isn't in Wario Land or WarioWare, and why Professor E. Gadd's role in Mario's world building was completely abandoned.

He's part of a sub-series, but E. Gadd was created by EAD. It is a bit strange he's not been in Kart yet imo, but then again... it took until Tour/8D to finally get Kamek, so who knows.

Here's hoping that now that they have a slightly more powerful console, Square enix wont cheap out with a Kingdom hearts port.

I mean there was no real excuse for not putting anything before 3 on the system natively, it was certainly powerful enough for that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He's part of a sub-series, but E. Gadd was created by EAD. It is a bit strange he's not been in Kart yet imo, but then again... it took until Tour/8D to finally get Kamek, so who knows.

Ah, so in that case it's just the devs being like:

"If there's no particular gameplay reason for him to be here he gets the boot."
"But what about world building?"
"What about world building?"

I know Mario plays fast and loose with its setting, but it wouldn't have taken a lot to put Professor E. Gadd in a room in New Donk City, and when spoken to, have a dialogue line or two about how he's developing the New Donker's spaceships.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone talking about their MK character wishlists, when all I care about is course wishlists!

What I want to see in base game:
16 new courses
8 MK SNES courses(1 per tileset)
All 16 MK N64 courses

After that, each DLC season adds another game's courses
After 8 seasons of DLC, we'll have 'Every Course is Here!'

 

[MBRedboy31]

Maybe they should just make up a new character that’s not derivative of any existing character (even Toadette is derivative of Toad, even if not to the extent of PGP and Baby Rosalina) to shake up the Mario Kart roster a bit, if they won’t get any of the more niche picks.

I don’t have much confidence they’d do that either (we haven’t gotten a notable new OC in Mario Party since MP8 way back on the Wii, as an example) but I’d be interested to see what they could have in mind.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Everyone talking about their MK character wishlists, when all I care about is course wishlist!

What I want to see in base game:
16 new courses
8 SMK courses(1 per tileset)
All 16 MK64 courses

After that, each DLC season adds another game's courses
After 8 seasons of DLC, we'll have 'Every Course is Here!'

I would like to see Wario stadium N64 come back.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I would like to see Wario stadium N64 come back.

I think it's kinda funny how after the Booster Course Pass, if this game just uses retro courses that weren't in that, Wario could still eat up like a fifth of the courses between N64 Wario Stadium, Wario Colosseum, and Wario Shipyard, plus technically Mount Wario is up for retro status in this game too.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah, so in that case it's just the devs being like:

"If there's no particular gameplay reason for him to be here he gets the boot."
"But what about world building?"
"What about world building?"

I know Mario plays fast and loose with its setting, but it wouldn't have taken a lot to put Professor E. Gadd in a room in New Donk City, and when spoken to, have a dialogue line or two about how he's developing the New Donker's spaceships.

Can I make an Ian Flynn joke, or would that be off-topic?

Maybe they should just make up a new character that’s not derivative of any existing character (even Toadette is derivative of Toad, even if not to the extent of PGP and Baby Rosalina) to shake up the Mario Kart roster a bit, if they won’t get any of the more niche picks.

I don’t have much confidence they’d do that either (we haven’t gotten a notable new OC in Mario Party since MP8 way back on the Wii, as an example) but I’d be interested to see what they could have in mind.

I remember when Lakitu was considered an OC due to a weird technicality (something about the shell I think?), so FWIW the bar is probably a bit low on that one...

 

[SPEN18]

Also, why is Mario Sluggers for the Wii still the best Mario spin-off roster out there? MK8 took a DLC pack, a Deluxe edition and then more DLC to even come close to this glory.

and, can confirm that even 15+ yrs later, Funky Kong using his surfboard as a bat is still epic

 

[GothicSlenderman]

Oh believe me, I don't outright expect anyone on my wishlist to make it in.
Wishlists are typically just that, wishes. It's all hopeful thinking.
Nothing will raise my expectations unless they start announcing the newcomers and the choices are really interesting and non-standard.

Honestly I only have 1 character on my wishlist and that's Shadow the Hedgehog.

Besides that I'm good with just about anyone. I just hope we get a more weird roster this time around. I'd love to see characters that visually stick out like Steve for example. It's why I'm not the biggest fan of JRPG anime swordsmen. They just don't stick out like they used to. But even then I wouldn't be mad because I expect nothing. I'm curious about the direction they choose to go with the next one.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly I only have 1 character on my wishlist and that's Shadow the Hedgehog.

Besides that I'm good with just about anyone. I just hope we get a more weird roster this time around. I'd love to see characters that visually stick out like Steve for example. It's why I'm not the biggest fan of JRPG anime swordsmen. They just don't stick out like they used to. But even then I wouldn't be mad because I expect nothing. I'm curious about the direction they choose to go with the next one.

I thought this was still about Mario Kart and I got really confused for a second lmao

I am in the same boat with just about anyone for Smash though, most of my big wishes are kinda longshots outside of like Noah or Mio since I liked Xenoblade 3 a lot and I already got Banjo and Pyra in Ultimate and they were my main wants for that game lol

 

[superprincess]

Compelling rhetoric.

I mean... how can you make any characters of that artstyle look not hideous in Mario Kart?

View attachment 397871

They're unrecognizable!

But I'm with you, 4/5 of the SMRPG party can work in MK but not Geno because... reasons. He obviously can't undergo the slight change to proportions that every Mario character has to fit this game.


I honestly don't know what you're on about.

Geno looks plain ugly imo. He just wouldn't look right next to these expressive characters. Mallow can slide because he has Toad-like eyes, but any Square character that's not Sports Mix's White Mage can stay out.

"Daisy, a white woman, doesn't just rule over a kingdom based on ancient Egypt, but also ones based on China, Bermuda, and Rapa Nui" really isn't the reason to not change her that you're implying it is.

I agree she shouldn't have been white from the beginning. But for 35 years now, she's been recognized as a redhead with smooth hair, blue eyes and thin lips. Representation is important, but race swapping Daisy basically results in a new character. Make a new princess at that point, it's much better than altering an already existing character and going "here, you satisfied?"

No one is saying representation has to be limited to that.
View attachment 397876

That’s true about Sarasaland, you got me there, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to think Daisy resided in the desert biome like how Peach resides in the grasslands. It would explain why Mario went to the desert biome first to find Daisy. We can’t now for sure, but Nintendo could say as much if they really wanted to justify giving her darker skin.

But again I don’t really care about trying to stay consistent in a series that is historically inconsistent, and is now showing with Donkey Kong that character designs don’t have to be forever consistent.

Why do you think they made Daisy tan after being consistently pale for almost 20 years? Also are we really trying to use a snippet from the manual of a random 20 year old Mario Party as cemented canon, not that where she lives now matters when talking about where she was raised.

As I already said, the reason presented itself for DK to get a redesign. They're separating the much smaller, less popular Rare DK from the main series Mario DK, by harkening back to his Arcade roots and the Mario Movie, which is the character's greatest outing in recent years.

Daisy just appears here and there and never quite makes an impression. If you're going to randomly & suddenly just redesign her to look like a different person, make a new character. It's not hard. You could theoretically do both, but they probably won't.

 

[dream1ng]

Geno looks plain ugly imo.

Oh, so you just don't like him. Got it.

He just wouldn't look right next to these expressive characters.

Sure all the expressiveness of staring at the backs of their heads when they drive.

He fits in much better with the expressionless cast of SMRPG

Look at those dead faces

Mallow can slide because he has Toad-like eyes,

Bruh Petey Piranha doesn't even have eyes and Shy Guy wears a mask.

but any Square character that's not Sports Mix's White Mage can stay out.

He's a Mario character. He's been in a Mario game, next to Mario and Peach and Bowser. You up in here treating him like a Cactuar or something.

 

[RouffWestie]

Geno looks plain ugly imo. He just wouldn't look right next to these expressive characters. Mallow can slide because he has Toad-like eyes, but any Square character that's not Sports Mix's White Mage can stay out.

I agree she shouldn't have been white from the beginning. But for 35 years now, she's been recognized as a redhead with smooth hair, blue eyes and thin lips. Representation is important, but race swapping Daisy basically results in a new character. Make a new princess at that point, it's much better than altering an already existing character and going "here, you satisfied?"

That's not race swapping. White skin gets tanned in sunlight.

A desert / island themed Kingdom would logically get more sunlight. That's what the previous poster was referring to, they were not asking for Daisy to be a different race.
Btw her skin was tanned compared to the other characters already in Mario Party 3. This look is simply preferred by some Daisy fans. You're overthinking the issue.

 

[superprincess]

That's not race swapping. White skin gets tanned in sunlight.
View attachment 397917
A desert / island themed Kingdom would logically get more sunlight. That's what the previous poster was referring to, they were not asking for Daisy to be a different race.
Btw her skin was tanned compared to the other characters already in Mario Party 3. This look is simply preferred by some Daisy fans. You're overthinking the issue.
View attachment 397918

Lol I know what a tan is. Being black and having a tan are very different things. One is a race and the other is a complexion. Idk why you conflated the two. I'm aware most Daisy fans want her to be tanned, but people here are arguing about making her black—which I'm not opposed to, but seems like a very unlikely scenario.

I will insist that Daisy's skin was never "dark", just darker than the extremely pale, porcelain-skinned Peach. Mario and Luigi had a deeper complexion in the N64 days, one that Daisy shared with them. But you don't see anybody argue that Mario was tanned.

I think her current color scheme is great, maybe her skin could go a little deeper, but I prefer her hair to be orangeish than brown. Mario Wonder and seemingly Mario Kart 9 perfected the design imo.

Oh, so you just don't like him. Got it.


Sure all the expressiveness of staring at the backs of their heads when they drive.

He fits in much better with the expressionless cast of SMRPG

Look at those dead faces


Bruh Petey Piranha doesn't even have eyes and Shy Guy wears a mask.


He's a Mario character. He's been in a Mario game, next to Mario and Peach and Bowser. You up in here treating him like a Cactuar or something.

I just don't think he fits the vibe of the general Mario universe. I'm not opposed to Geno in Smash because it's a crossover (even though Mallow is clearly the better choice lol). That's just my opinion. I think he clashes with the cast in a very ugly way, and his "stoic" personality is boring and wouldn't offer much charm. Petey and Shy Guy may lack eyes, but they're still very expressive and bright through their body movements.

It's not worth arguing about anyway, because Geno is thankfully never making it out of Super Mario RPG. He's a Square owned character, and Mario Kart is as Nintendo as it gets.

 

[fogbadge]

Clippy boss fight let's go

now that would be fun

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just don't think he fits the vibe of the general Mario universe.

He's basically a Luma in a little wooden Iron Man suit.

He's a Square owned character, and Mario Kart is as Nintendo as it gets.

Uhhh....

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

He's basically a Luma in a little wooden Iron Man suit.

Technically, he's supposed to be a precursor to the star people of Paper Mario, cosplaying as a Toad child's superhero. But yes, the principle still applies.

I wish people had realized this more, because I got a completely different impression of him from fan depictions.

 

[superprincess]

Uhhh....

View attachment 397919

These are obviously not mainline.

Also, Namco works on these games. They aren't just giving Pac-Man to Nintendo. Your point will stand when Square works on a Mario Kart game.

 

[fogbadge]

He's basically a Luma in a little wooden Iron Man suit.

now that is a great description

 

[NintenRob]

Now obviously this doesn't mean much, but it pleases me that Rosalina was basically the first character we get close look at on Switch 2, even if mostly the back of her head. They still used her to show off the most interesting looking vehicle in the trailer. Maybe they'll use her to show off other elements like maybe in the Smash reveal trailer

 

[BuckleyTim]

I really wonder where the heck the DK series goes from here if Nintendo really does have grand plans for him. Does Mario dk and dkc dk have a split in design philosophy like Wario has between Mario and Warioware? Is this emblematic of how he'd look in a full game made by the Mario team? If so, how much else would differ / even be retained by the team from the current "mythos"?

I also just don't like the argument that they're doing this because rare dk is less popular than arcade dk. I don't believe that to be true at all even outside the core gamer demographic, and even if seniors remember dk primarily as the arcade sprite, that seems like a really out of touch excuse to rip up what's been established for 25 years at this point.

Again, I don't think that's even the reasoning here and I'd probably welcome big changes just because retro's dk games ironically never did much for me, kremlings or not. But saying that the movie essentially overwrote what dk's been since 95 in the public's mind seems a little overzealous of an assessment for a film I admittedly don't like.

 

[Garteam]

I think more Microsoft in Smash is kind of inevitable given the company's move towards trying to expand brand awareness by getting their games and IPs into other ecosystems, it's really a question of:

1. Which of their plethora of characters will be added (this really comes down to "Is Crash, Doom Slayer, or Master Chief next?")
2. Whether the language barrier is too much of an issue for base game appearances (This likely isn't an issue for Banjo or Steve due to so much of the groundwork being laid already)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think Master chief is pretty much a guarantee at SOME point

 

[fogbadge]

I think Master chief is pretty much a guarantee at SOME point

no one is guaranteed

 

[BuckleyTim]

I'd love chief (haloid fans rise up), but his competition internally is pretty fierce at this point. As much as I'm lukewarm on the idea I really do think Dovahkin is the dark horse here that everyone is sleeping on. Skyrim hit Japan compared to how it hit the western gaming market; I've even seen it referenced in media like Pop Team Epic years after the fact. While I think the two green space marine guys and the bandicoot are inevitable they might have to cower before the might before the first western RPG Swordsman in Smash.

The Todd posting that day will be glorious

 

[Gengar84]

I think more Microsoft in Smash is kind of inevitable given the company's move towards trying to expand brand awareness by getting their games and IPs into other ecosystems, it's really a question of:

1. Which of their plethora of characters will be added (this really comes down to "Is Crash, Doom Slayer, or Master Chief next?")
2. Whether the language barrier is too much of an issue for base game appearances (This likely isn't an issue for Banjo or Steve due to so much of the groundwork being laid already)

This is probably just wishful thinking but I don’t think it’s out of the question that we could see more than one Microsoft character. I think we could see one mainstream character like Master Chief alongside a smaller character with stronger ties to Nintendo like Rash. My favorites are the Battletoads, Fulgore, Illidan Stormrage, and Sarah Kerrigan. If I could get even one of those, I’d be more than happy to see a more mainstream favorite alongside them. WarCraft is pretty mainstream, probably even rivaling Halo in cultural influence, but is a lot less speculated within the Smash fandom due to its PC roots.