Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I'll believe it when I see it. I do not like getting my hopes up for these kind of rumors.

sensible

 

[Golden Icarus]

Decided to take another crack at a Smash 6 roster prediction since I've been seeing those again lately.

View attachment 398041
About a similiar size to Ultimate with some veterans sacrificed for the newcomers. (unsure how realistic that would be and dlc isn't a factor here) I'm still a bit iffy on it as I hold some doubt as to wether Sakurai would actually get rid of Joker, Pythra, Roy, Greninja and Duck Hunt in particular. (Though if I didn't the newcomer selection would be too empty imo) Miraidon might as well be exchangeable with any Gen 10 mon. Zelda's once again without a newcomer losing Young Link in the process and Birdo as a new echo fighter instead of someone like Dixie might not sit right for some people. What do yall feel?

Spoiler tagging this entire post because I feel it’s the polite thing to do when I ramble this much.

Spoiler

Individually, I think most of your cuts and additions can be justified, but feel hard to imagine in the big picture.

I agree that Zero Suit Samus and Dark Samus are probably close to the razor’s edge, but cutting both while adding zero new characters for Metroid feels unlikely considering the series is doing better than it has been in a long time.

I understand the logic of cutting Joker and Sephiroth. As far as Sega and Square characters, they feel the least essential, but at the same time those were both massive additions. The two characters that were reserved for the Game Awards. Crazy popular characters from insanely popular games with the Persona series having a ton of recent content on the Switch that Atlus and Nintendo would both be incentivized to promote. Frankly, I might even expect both Sega and Nintendo to be more interested in propping up Persona over Bayonetta right now.

And I’m always surprised by how people view Sephiroth around here. He’s as popular as Cloud and received even more love from the Smash team. It’s really hard for me to imagine Nintendo negotiating for Cloud and then leaving it at that. I’m sure deals become more complicated as more content and characters get involved, but if they’re going through the trouble of bringing back some of the FF7 content, then I’d have to assume they’ll make sure the most popular villain in gaming history also comes back. If Cloud has about a 70% chance then Seph has to have like a 69% chance. The idea of settling for less than the entire package feels really weird.

Third parties are tough. The precedent is that Snake was cut for Smash 4 and then everyone including Snake came back for Ultimate. I think the hardest thing for me to imagine is a company being on board for next game and not insisting that all their characters come back. Kazuya isn’t as famous as Pac-Man, but Tekken’s still huge (and probably more important to Namco) and they already went through the trouble of his unique moveset, so why would you leave him behind? Sonic ellipses the other Sega characters, but if Sega‘s on board wouldn’t they likely insist that their other characters come back as well?

Third party cuts almost require that Nintendo strictly decides that they want to keep a certain 1st / 3rd party ratio, or they decide it isn’t worth negotiating with an entire company. Neither feel super likely to me, but I guess people are betting on the former. In that case though I don’t think it’ll be 2-4 characters awkwardly missing, but probably as much as half of them getting cut to firmly separate this game from the 3rd party selection that Ultimate had. But yeah I don’t know that feels weird too.

Whatever I’ll stop rambling. I guess that’s my hottest take. Ultimate went so hard with 3rd parties, Sakurai is clearly a master of negotiations and I feel like the incentives for both Nintendo and each 3rd party company to get every character back is very high. My bet is that they all return, unless the next game has less than 60 characters. Maybe Sora becomes the new Snake, but I bet even he would be year one DLC. Konami failing to make Snake happen in Smash 4 feels like a cautionary tale that most companies will want to avoid.

 

[Good Night !]

I agree that Zero Suit Samus and Dark Samus are probably close to the razor’s edge, but cutting both while adding zero new characters for Metroid feels unlikely considering the series is doing better than it has been in a long time.

Can't argue for Dark Samus, but I don't think that ZSS is that close to being cut for the next game. This version of Samus became so iconic since Brawl.

 

[ninjahmos]

A few hours ago a rumor surfaced about the announcement of a "last big Nintendo Switch game" from a niche franchise and it is NOT a remaster. Which one could it be?
My bets are either Rythm Paradise or Golden Sun. Camelot hasn't released anything for four years and until now they were releasing games every 2/3 years. Rythm Paradise usually comes out relatively late in each generation.

Obligatory text

 

[PeridotGX]

The fact that this has a chance higher than zero of happening scares me, yet slightly comforts me because my younger cousins absolutely LOVE Fortnite and it would give me a good excuse to introduce them to Smash Bros.

How do we react when they add Geno but it's Fortnite Geno

 

[PersonAngelo53]

A few hours ago a rumor surfaced about the announcement of a "last big Nintendo Switch game" from a niche franchise and it is NOT a remaster. Which one could it be?
My bets are either Rythm Paradise or Golden Sun. Camelot hasn't released anything for four years and until now they were releasing games every 2/3 years. Rythm Paradise usually comes out relatively late in each generation.

Project X zone 3 perhaps? Helps that there was another rumor mentioning that game recently.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

A few hours ago a rumor surfaced about the announcement of a "last big Nintendo Switch game" from a niche franchise and it is NOT a remaster. Which one could it be?
My bets are either Rythm Paradise or Golden Sun. Camelot hasn't released anything for four years and until now they were releasing games every 2/3 years. Rythm Paradise usually comes out relatively late in each generation.

You already know.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think the funniest thing about this rumor is I could legitimately make a case for even something like Starfy 6 because of the first three games coming out on NSO, even in the west where they've never been released before lol

 

[dream1ng]

A few hours ago a rumor surfaced about the announcement of a "last big Nintendo Switch game" from a niche franchise and it is NOT a remaster. Which one could it be?
My bets are either Rythm Paradise or Golden Sun. Camelot hasn't released anything for four years and until now they were releasing games every 2/3 years. Rythm Paradise usually comes out relatively late in each generation.

Our "somewhat niche" and what others would call "somewhat niche" vacillate greatly in what people think of Nintendo. Especially if this is being described as big. This could even be, like, Fire Emblem or Metroid. I don't think it will be if it's not a remaster (which I assume also covers remake), like FE4 or MP2, but the parameters of this are pretty nebulous, imo.

But I don't think it's Golden Sun, either. I don't think that IP is coming back with anything other than a remake. I don't think Nintendo has the confidence to dive in with a new, more expensive, sequel. At this point I also don't think Camelot is going to be taken off the Mario sports wheel, so, like the other revivals, will require a new dev. And like MercurySteam, Mages, Wayforward, etc. I think Nintendo would test them with a remake first.

Rhythm Heaven seems possible. That's not a hugely expensive series to make, so an actual new title could be plausible. It doesn't sell well outside Japan, but maybe Nintendo would give it another shot. Though it's not releasing at a good time for that, if it's still on Switch.

If there were actual new Kid Icarus or Star Fox games, I think they wouldn't be used as very late-stage Switch titles when the Switch 2 is literally coming out. To that end, Wario Land also seems possible. If it's 2D it's not too costly, and it's Mario-adjacent enough that Nintendo would have some confidence in its ability to not just go out and die on a system getting replaced.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Our "somewhat niche" and what others would call "somewhat niche" vacillate greatly in what people think of Nintendo. Especially if this is being described as big. This could even be, like, Fire Emblem or Metroid. I don't think it will be if it's not a remaster (which I assume also covers remake), like FE4 or MP2, but the parameters of this are pretty nebulous, imo.

Yeah, strictly speaking, if Metroid Prime 4 is built to run on the switch but has a performance patch for Switch 2 and drops on the Switch 2 release date, then it would be the last big game on the Switch, from a niche franchise and not a remake/remaster

But of course, we all know they actually mean that Super Duper Punch-Out is on its way.

 

[dream1ng]

Project X zone 3 perhaps? Helps that there was another rumor mentioning that game recently.

Wasn't that specifically for the Switch 2?

Yeah, strictly speaking, if Metroid Prime 4 is built to run on the switch but has a performance patch for Switch 2 and drops on the Switch 2 release date, then it would be the last big game on the Switch, from a niche franchise and not a remake/remaster

But of course, we all know they actually mean that Super Duper Punch-Out is on its way.

Technically sure it fits, but teasing an already known game like it's unrevealed is a good way to lose the clout internet leakers are so desperate for.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Project X zone 3 perhaps? Helps that there was another rumor mentioning that game recently.

thats not a nintendo series though, even though they technically developed it

 

[Kirbeh]

The last Switch game will be Sakurai's current project. Another sequel to Kid Icarus. Unfortunately it'll be one of the games incompatible with Switch 2. It'll also be a limited physical release and give you arthritis if you didn't have it already. Please understand.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

If it's 2D it's not too costly, and it's Mario-adjacent enough that Nintendo would have some confidence in its ability to not just go out and die on a system getting replaced.

I don't think this is an issue, it seems like the Switch 2 is carrying over the e-shop so the digital storefront is entirely the same. Releasing a game on the Switch 1 is a much safer bet to reach a wider audience than making it a Switch 2 game, there's not any risk of it being a dying platform as it was with the Wii U and 3DS.

 

[Ivander]

I think my issue with

final "big" Nintendo game from a beloved, but "somewhat niche" franchise; "not a remaster"

is that we don't know exactly by "somewhat niche". Because niche would normally imply a game meant for a specific audience, like RPGs or RTS games and "somewhat" implies that while it's been marketed to general audiences, it's popular with a specific audience. But niche has often also been used for "series/game that is less popular than mainstream" and especially "popular game/series that sells less than more popular franchises". Which only widens the speculation on what it is.
It could mean Fire Emblem. It could mean Star Fox. It could mean Rhythm Heaven. It could mean Kid Icarus. Heck, it could even mean a franchise like Earthbound/Mother(especially if remakes are not out of the mix compared to remasters), Sin & Punishment or Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents. Because we don't know which definition of "niche" they refer to.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Another sequel to Kid Icarus. Unfortunately it'll be one of the games incompatible with Switch 2. It'll also be a limited physical release and give you arthritis if you didn't have it already. Please understand.

If it ever gets ported or have a sequel then it will probably be a release that fixes the controls.

 

[BuckleyTim]

gotta love leak posts that do nothing but let people (barely) talk about what franchises they want to see return for the 400 millionth time. Some of the top comments in that reddit thread are literally just [name of franchise] period. At least we pretend to discuss something of worth when we bring that topic up.

To that extent, I can't name a direct in recent memory that hasn't brought an old series back to light in its duration. You'd have a harder time finding a direct that doesn't have that kind of surprise (even partner directs might count at this point).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You know what I do think would be really funny with this rumor?

Imagine if this rumor corroborates that one leak about the ARMS team making a Custom Robo game lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know what I do think would be really funny with this rumor?

Imagine if this rumor corroborates that one leak about the ARMS team making a Custom Robo game lol

There's one problem with that: The ARMS team is also the Mario Kart team, and we saw a new Mario Kart, didn't we?

 

[Noipoi]

We’ll get a new ARMS game when that graphic novel comes out.

 

[Ivander]

You know what I do think would be really funny with this rumor?

Imagine if this rumor corroborates that one leak about the ARMS team making a Custom Robo game lol

There's one problem with that: The ARMS team is also the Mario Kart team, and we saw a new Mario Kart, didn't we?

They are talking about this rumor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/1hrp9rw/a_known_chinese_insider_posts_several_new_details/

Which is probably fake with the Switch 2 announcement because of this:

• Joy-Cons are not included. Devs use Switch 1 Joy-Cons for testing.
  • This suggests Joy-Con BC.
  • They think that the major devs probably received Switch 2 Joy-Cons.

Cause the Switch 2 being bigger makes it more harder to believe that the regular Joy-cons will be backward compatible, unless they can be used alongside the new Switch 2 joy-cons like with Wiimotes with the Wii U.
---
But regardless, unless some of the Mario Kart/ARMS team split up to do two separate games, I heavily doubt we're getting a Custom Robo game made by the MK/ARMS team.

 

[Royaru]

To that extent, I can't name a direct in recent memory that hasn't brought an old series back to light in its duration. You'd have a harder time finding a direct that doesn't have that kind of surprise (even partner directs might count at this point).

The resurgence of IPs has been a constant since practically 2021. In 2021 we had the remakes of Famicom Detective Club, and new installments of 2d Metroid, Warioware, Brain Training and the announcement of the remake of Advance Wars. From then on we have had one or two revivals practically every year.

And as you say, even the 2024 partner direct brought back Endless Ocean, and as far as we know Nintendo is also after the return of Professor Layton.

At this point, we can't rule out almost any scenario. There are IPs that might be better off with a new release straight away (Wario Ware, M&L, Endless Ocean...) and others might be better off with a remake/remaster (Metroid, Pikmin, FDC, Another Code).
Which IP do you think would be better off with a new release instead of a remake?

EDIT:

But regardless, unless some of the Mario Kart/ARMS team split up to do two separate games, I heavily doubt we're getting a Custom Robo game made by the MK/ARMS team.

If EPD5 could do it with Splatoon and Animal Crossing, we can't rule out that option, especially considering that they've gone 8 years without doing anything big.

 

[fogbadge]

I think my issue with

is that we don't know exactly by "somewhat niche". Because niche would normally imply a game meant for a specific audience, like RPGs or RTS games and "somewhat" implies that while it's been marketed to general audiences, it's popular with a specific audience. But niche has often also been used for "series/game that is less popular than mainstream" and especially "popular game/series that sells less than more popular franchises". Which only widens the speculation on what it is.
It could mean Fire Emblem. It could mean Star Fox. It could mean Rhythm Heaven. It could mean Kid Icarus. Heck, it could even mean a franchise like Earthbound/Mother(especially if remakes are not out of the mix compared to remasters), Sin & Punishment or Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents. Because we don't know which definition of "niche" they refer to.

oh it'll be that FE remake that leaked ages ago

The resurgence of IPs has been a constant since practically 2021. In 2021 we had the remakes of Famicom Detective Club, and new installments of 2d Metroid, Warioware, Brain Training and the announcement of the remake of Advance Wars. From then on we have had one or two revivals practically every year.

And as you say, even the 2024 partner direct brought back Endless Ocean, and as far as we know Nintendo is also after the return of Professor Layton.

At this point, we can't rule out almost any scenario. There are IPs that might be better off with a new release straight away (Wario Ware, M&L, Endless Ocean...) and others might be better off with a remake/remaster (Metroid, Pikmin, FDC, Another Code).
Which IP do you think would be better off with a new release instead of a remake?

how was Wario Ware in need of a revival? when did it last miss a console?

 

[cashregister9]

We’ll get a new ARMS game when that graphic novel comes out.

ha ha, yeah...

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Cause the Switch 2 being bigger makes it more harder to believe that the regular Joy-cons will be backward compatible, unless they can be used alongside the new Switch 2 joy-cons like with Wiimotes with the Wii U.

I feel like it will still work but not connected to the handheld. That probably still results in Labo not working because of the size difference of the handheld and some labor games required the joy cons 1 connected to the handheld

 

[Royaru]

oh it'll be that FE remake that leaked ages ago



how was Wario Ware in need of a revival? when did it last miss a console?

Warioware was practically missing throughout the 3DS/WiiU era until Gold in 2018, which was a collection of the entire saga. And I don't know if anyone actually counts Game&Wario as an installment. If so, it's still eight years without a completely new Warioware, it wasn't dead but it's not the release cadence we were used to.

 

[fogbadge]

Warioware was practically missing throughout the 3DS/WiiU era until Gold in 2018, which was a collection of the entire saga. And I don't know if anyone actually counts Game&Wario as an installment. If so, it's still eight years without a completely new Warioware, it wasn't dead but it's not the release cadence we were used to.

I see absolutely no reason not to count game and wario

 

[Ivander]

Warioware was practically missing throughout the 3DS/WiiU era until Gold in 2018, which was a collection of the entire saga. And I don't know if anyone actually counts Game&Wario as an installment. If so, it's still eight years without a completely new Warioware, it wasn't dead but it's not the release cadence we were used to.

It still counts. It has the whole WarioWare gang, it still has Wario at the start watching a TV and getting his idea for a new scheme from a tv commercial, and while it doesn't have microgames, the other Warioware games had game modes that were basically one expanded microgame that Game & Wario expands upon, it's still very much a WarioWare title in all but name.

Oh, and even Smash Bros considers the Game & Wario stage(the one based on the 9-Volt/5-Volt game from Game & Wario) as part of the WarioWare-verse.

 

[Noipoi]

Game & Wario is absolutely a Warioware game, it’s just the black sheep of the franchise.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oh, and even Smash Bros considers the Game & Wario stage(the one based on the 9-Volt/5-Volt game from Game & Wario) as part of the WarioWare-verse.

I mean, I don't disagree Game & Wario is part of the WarioWare umbrella, but anything Wario related is part of the "WarioWare-verse" in Smash, including Wario Land content so that isn't exactly the best point.

....and don't get me started on the inconsistencies between Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and Wrecking Crew as far as Smash is concerned. :V

 

[Ivander]

Game & Wario is absolutely a Warioware game, it’s just the black sheep of the franchise.

In sales, sure, but considering it's the one that properly introduced 5-Volt and the game of 9-Volt trying to play a video game and beat her high-score after she trounced both him and 18-Volt in points in his video game while trying to avoid getting caught awake by a full-out slasher villain version of her, I'm pretty sure it's far from "the" black sheep when alot of people fondly remember that game in particular.

Heck, that particular game was played by a lot of popular youtubers, including Markiplier. So Game & Wario certainly got a lot of positive attention. The problem was that hardly anybody had a Wii U.

I mean, I don't disagree Game & Wario is part of the WarioWare umbrella, but anything Wario related is part of the "WarioWare-verse" in Smash, including Wario Land content so that isn't exactly the best point.

I mean, when the only Wario Land content in Smash Bros. is the one main theme from Wario Land Shake it, where else are you going to categorise it without a Wario Land category?.....

 

[Guynamednelson]

If EPD5 could do it with Splatoon and Animal Crossing, we can't rule out that option, especially considering that they've gone 8 years without doing anything big.

Depends on how long of a wait there'll be between the new Mario Kart and Custom Robo games. Splatoon 3 came 2 1/2 years after AC New Horizons, and that came 3 years after Splatoon 2.

 

[Noipoi]

In sales, sure, but considering it's the one that properly introduced 5-Volt and the game of 9-Volt trying to play a video game and beat her high-score after she trounced both him and 18-Volt in points in his video game while trying to avoid getting caught awake by a full-out slasher villain version of her, I'm pretty sure it's far from "the" black sheep when alot of people fondly remember that game in particular.

Heck, that particular game was played by a lot of popular youtubers, including Markiplier. So Game & Wario certainly got a lot of positive attention. The problem was that hardly anybody had a Wii U.

Well everything sold poorly on the Wii U : P

What I meant by calling it the black sheep was just that it wasn’t a traditional Warioware game. Instead of being another microgame collection it’s doing its own thing.

 

[RileyXY1]

oh it'll be that FE remake that leaked ages ago

Yeah. It could be referring to a remake of the fourth Fire Emblem game, Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, that has been rumored for a long time. It could also be the game Sakurai mentioned at the end of his final video on his YouTube channel, assuming it isn't Smash.

 

[Ivander]

Well everything sold poorly on the Wii U : P

Well, everything but Splatoon. Otherwise, 2 and 3 being the best-selling titles afterward wouldn't have happened.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm still hoping they use more music from the Wario Land series, especially Wario World, including Greenhorn Forest and Greenhorn Ruins.

 

[Opossum]

You already know.
View attachment 398053

On one hand I 100% think Hotel Dusk is in the process of getting something given all of the hints toward it in Another Code Recollection, but on the other hand I also definitely think it's a Recollection-styled remake duology.

Though I'd love to be wrong and get a full blown third game lol.

 

[dream1ng]

I don't think this is an issue, it seems like the Switch 2 is carrying over the e-shop so the digital storefront is entirely the same. Releasing a game on the Switch 1 is a much safer bet to reach a wider audience than making it a Switch 2 game, there's not any risk of it being a dying platform as it was with the Wii U and 3DS.

Carrying over the NSO library and having BC doesn't necessarily mean the storefront is going to be the same, especially because of how licensing for third-parties doesn't inherently include sale on future systems.

And the Switch has a very strong install base, but the potential userbase dropoff and lack of promotion Switch 1 games will receive after April (plus extensive competing promotion) will hinder performance. Nintendo has to be satisfied knowing they are not going to get the optimal potential performance out of whatever title this will be, so a Mario-adjacent title like Wario seems like a pick that despite what else is going on, and how its shelf life will be significantly lower than Switch 2 titles, is low enough budget and notable enough of an IP to still be dropped on Switch.

Same reason most of the last year or so has been lower-budget ports/remakes/spin-offs, usually from the Mario umbrella. Makes good fodder while the stuff they want performing for longer and moving the next system is saved.

There's one problem with that: The ARMS team is also the Mario Kart team, and we saw a new Mario Kart, didn't we?

I suspect EPD9 has the capabilities to develop multiple games at once. Even with Mario Kart no doubt being their primary focus, that game has likely been in development for so long its potentially allowed a smaller team to also do something else. Potentially.

That said, pulling any amount of manpower from Mario Kart for freaking Custom Robo is a hell of a claim, even if they have the ability to do multiple projects.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean, when the only Wario Land content in Smash Bros. is the one main theme from Wario Land Shake it, where else are you going to categorise it without a Wario Land category?.....

There's also a couple Spirits. :V

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

There's also a couple Spirits. :V

Good ol Captain Syrup, Count Cannoli, Shake King, and Princess Shokora.

Still really weird to me that Shake King is a Novice spirit, considering he's the final boss of Shake It lol