Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

Even with his franchise's increased presence in Ultimate from next to nothing in Smash 4, with the Mii Costume and the highest number of Spirits of a non-playable franchise and everything.

It FEELS like acknowledgment of some level of success on the Ballot for a character that wouldn't fit into a limited newcomer roster like Ultimate's but could fit into a more traditional number of newcomers like I'm hoping the next Smash will have. He FEELS likely.

Sure, I agree the amount of content GS got was likely due to his placement on the ballot and the fact that he couldn't make it as a character but they wanted to give the fans something. I think if Ultimate had the normal amount of base newcomers, he probably would've been one of them.

But none of that consolation supporting content were what people were reading as hints towards his playability.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The idea that a character would have been partially developed but made into an Assist instead is ludicrous. That's not at all how fighters or Assists work.

Isaac simply was a notable enough request on the Ballot to warrant acknowledgement but was not picked as a fighter. All there is to it.

Probably read into it wrong yeah. I'll admit. I think he might at least have been considered. But yeah he doesn't quite hold up to Ridley and K.Rool in terms of popularity. Or was urgent like Isabelle or Inklings. Easy to miss the boat.

But there was at least some type of acknowledgement to his popularity. And I don't think his chances are that bad for this next Smash.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Sure, I agree the amount of content GS got was likely due to his placement on the ballot and the fact that he couldn't make it as a character but they wanted to give the fans something. I think if Ultimate had the normal amount of base newcomers, he probably would've been one of them.

But none of that consolation supporting content were what people were reading as hints towards his playability.

Right, I'm just equating it to my opinions on Isaac whenever he comes up here now

Obviously, we had no way to know how much content he was getting pre-launch and I definitely remember the days where people thought the Healing Sprout was a blob of Growth Psynergy and the day the Rathalos pic came out lol

 

[Wunderwaft]

Oh man, Isaac is a character stuck between a rock and a hard place with how so much is stacked up against him going into the next Smash. He's not that unlikely, sometimes popularity is all you need to net yourself a spot on the roster, but what I wonder about most is how much of that is gonna be able to help him when the competition for the next game will be cutthroat as hell. No revival for GS has happened yet and that's really gonna make the case for Isaac more difficult as the series grows older and older.

Yet despite all that, I still have this lingering feeling that he probably will still happen in this next game. It's a copium filled gut feeling I'll admit, but Isaac being a popular character that isn't likely does make me think he could be picked up for that wow factor and to rouse up a bombastic fanfare from the fanbase.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Oh man, Isaac is a character stuck between a rock and a hard place with how so much is stacked up against him going into the next Smash. He's not that unlikely, sometimes popularity is all you need to net yourself a spot on the roster, but what I wonder about most is how much of that is gonna be able to help him when the competition for the next game will be cutthroat as hell. No revival for GS has happened yet and that's really gonna make the case for Isaac more difficult as the series grows older and older.

Yet despite all that, I still have this lingering feeling that he probably will still happen in this next game. It's a copium filled gut feeling I'll admit, but Isaac being a popular character that isn't likely does make me think he could be picked up for that wow factor and to rouse up a bombastic fanfare from the fanbase.

I do feel like the sheer gap of content for Golden Sun between 4 and Ultimate PROBABLY means SOMETHING, I'm just bracing myself in case it doesn't or they feel like that's all they needed to do lol

Like I honestly feel like the Mii Costume is important because of characters like K. Rool getting one in 4 as an indication of popularity (a long dormant character suddenly getting a sort of "consolation" playable role after all this time and then becoming playable next game), it just depends on how much they look at the Ballot for next game considering it's a decade old. Maybe pick up a few first party stragglers that are high up and fit em in there and then call it a day on that, get a new one going at the end of next game?

I just find it impossible to talk about Smash Bros. in absolutes because who the heck knows what goes on over there in Sakurai's mind lmao

 

[smashkirby]

I kinda want them to bring back the PW64 characters and the Flight Club members from the original SNES game. Although, the difference in artstyles would probably make that difficult.

Man, I can only imagine what THAT crossover would be like... Actually, the more I think about it? The more I wonder... what WAS up with the drastic character design change? Not that I hated it, mind you (there's a reason PW64 is my favorite Pilotwings game after all), but it makes me wonder...

 

[Wunderwaft]

I do feel like the sheer gap of content for Golden Sun between 4 and Ultimate PROBABLY means SOMETHING, I'm just bracing myself in case it doesn't or they feel like that's all they needed to do lol

Like I honestly feel like the Mii Costume is important because of characters like K. Rool getting one in 4 as an indication of popularity (a long dormant character suddenly getting a sort of "consolation" playable role after all this time and then becoming playable next game), it just depends on how much they look at the Ballot for next game considering it's a decade old. Maybe pick up a few first party stragglers that are high up and fit em in there and then call it a day on that, get a new one going at the end of next game?

I just find it impossible to talk about Smash Bros. in absolutes because who the heck knows what goes on over there in Sakurai's mind lmao

There's nothing absolute about Smash but that's the fun part about speculation, you throw around your takes until one of them is correct

Isaac just feels like someone who very much itches the "popular and unexpected" character agenda that could be pulled out for Smash, and I very much could see Isaac picked for that role. He could also be picked for retro-related reasons....which I was unaware of until a friend told me that next year Dark Dawn will be further away than when Ice Climbers were added back in Melee

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

He could also be picked for retro-related reasons....which I was unaware of until a friend told me that next year Dark Dawn will be further away than when Ice Climbers were added back in Melee

Even moreso if they go with his original appearance like they do for his Assist Trophy since Golden Sun was a GBA launch window title in 2001 lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

Of course they won't. They already didn't. looks at Mario Kart

And there's Pokemon over there.

I feel like Shadow has enough stuff to be a semi clone or even something similar to how Wolf was handled rather than an Echo.

I think semiclones should count as Echoes in the next game.

You're either fully unique, or you're an Echo.

Let's say a new Smash releases and there are cuts.

But these five characters stay.

What do you think would be the developer's justifications for keeping these five?

A grudge against me, personally.

I think I'm opposed to an Ultimate port for two reasons.

One, it has the same problem as Mario Kart 8

Being the best, most perfect execution of their series?

We'd be more likely to get newcomers in a new game than a port, period.

I dunno man. The port of MK8 literally doubled the size of the game.

Every Smash game dashes peoples' expectations

Smash Ultimate exceeded my expectations.

 

[SPEN18]

The amount of GS content in Ult is pretty clearly due to the ballot. I don't see any other reasonably likely explanation for how it went from practically zero in Smash 4 to that much. Which further confirms the polling data saying that he did extremely well. I wouldn't be surprised if he had the best result of all first parties who haven't already made it in. Which is pretty much the big pin he can hang his chances on, in addition to vast moveset potential which is frankly pretty impossible not to see if you're decently familiar with the character and series. Obviously the longtime dormancy of his franchise is a major point against his likelihood and keeps him from being mentioned alongside some of the perceived most likely candidates, but I think he has strong chances nonetheless, again because it's entirely possible his ballot performance was really that strong and that moveset potential is very conspicuous.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The amount of GS content in Ult is pretty clearly due to the ballot. I don't see any other reasonably likely explanation for how it went from practically zero in Smash 4 to that much. Which further confirms the polling data saying that he did extremely well. I wouldn't be surprised if he had the best result of all first parties who haven't already made it in. Which is pretty much the big pin he can hang his chances on, in addition to vast moveset potential which is frankly pretty impossible not to see if you're decently familiar with the character and series. Obviously the longtime dormancy of his franchise is a major point against his likelihood and keeps him from being mentioned alongside some of the perceived most likely candidates, but I think he has strong chances nonetheless, again because it's entirely possible his ballot performance was really that strong and that moveset potential is very conspicuous.

Plus as others have mentioned before, Camelot's been quiet for a while now, longer than usual, so there's a non-zero chance that they could be working on remedying that dormancy in some way.

I'll believe that when I see it, but it IS a non-zero chance considering all the remakes and revivals in the Switch's lifespan.

 

[SPEN18]

Plus as others have mentioned before, Camelot's been quiet for a while now, longer than usual, so there's a non-zero chance that they could be working on remedying that dormancy in some way.

Yeah I think the default expectation has to be that they're working on another Mario sports game for Switch 2, and the delay in the Switch 2 may have even pushed back the expected release date. But it's not completely inconceivable that they got a GS greenlit after having completed their Switch 1 Mario sports titles.

 

[Kirbeh]

I still kinda want to see a Smash game that cuts every single veteran and has only newcomers. It'd make 0 sense financially, but it'd be fresh.

If you want something fresh and haven't done so already, I highly recommend playing other platfighters, just saying.

Makes more sense than hoping for a Smash Bros. with no Mario.

 

[MBRedboy31]

If you want something fresh and haven't done so already, I highly recommend playing other platfighters, just saying.

Makes more sense than hoping for a Smash Bros. with no Mario.

Yes, I’ve played other platfighters. However, they aren’t really as interesting to speculate about. Rivals 2 and NASB have rather limited-feeling scopes as to what characters could be in them (plus NASB has no confirmed upcoming content,) and MVS characters are pretty much guaranteed to be leaked way in advance so there’s little to talk about.

Plus, this thread is way, way, way more active than any threads for any other platfighters.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I think semiclones should count as Echoes in the next game

I guess that means an echo can have an echo if Roy and Chrom return.

One example of a character that could have issue with this is Wolf who only really shares his Nair and reflector with Fox.

I feel like the only change I can see with how echoes are defined is some regular ones that weren’t become echoes. An example is Dr Mario who wasn’t an echo presumably because of Melee.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I guess that means an echo can have an echo if Roy and Chrom return.

Not if you give Chrom a new moveset. Make Lucina his Echo. Then make Roy into Marth's Echo.

One example of a character that could have issue with this is Wolf who only really shares his Nair and reflector with Fox.

A problem easily solved by giving Wolf a new Nair and Reflector. Then he wouldn't be an Echo.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Let's try a though experiment.

Let's say a new Smash releases and there are cuts.

But these five characters stay.

What do you think would be the developer's justifications for keeping these five? They don't all have to have the same reason.

"We really wanted Gen 2 to keep its sole representative on the roster"
"We added Skull Kid and wanted Young Link with a Fierce Deity Final Smash to make Majora's Mask's representation feel truly whole (in be4 it's just Triforce Slash again)"
"PLANTGANG4LIFE"
"As the only wrestling themed character he's just to fun to cut"
"It's now company policy to include as many Fire Emblem characters as we realistically can"

 

[BritishGuy54]

Let’s do the opposite. Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

 

[fogbadge]

Let’s do the opposite. Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

it's our game we can do whatever the **** we want with it

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh man, Isaac is a character stuck between a rock and a hard place with how so much is stacked up against him going into the next Smash. He's not that unlikely, sometimes popularity is all you need to net yourself a spot on the roster, but what I wonder about most is how much of that is gonna be able to help him when the competition for the next game will be cutthroat as hell. No revival for GS has happened yet and that's really gonna make the case for Isaac more difficult as the series grows older and older.

Yet despite all that, I still have this lingering feeling that he probably will still happen in this next game. It's a copium filled gut feeling I'll admit, but Isaac being a popular character that isn't likely does make me think he could be picked up for that wow factor and to rouse up a bombastic fanfare from the fanbase.

In a way, his chances are comparable to Waluigi. Very popular, but just as easily missable in terms of inclusion because there's just a lot of competition. Yet in terms of popularity they probably stand their own league in terms of what's left.

Also obviously both have been Assist Trophies and are created by Camelot. Probably some of the most popular characters left outside of the likes of Dixie, Bandana Dee, Funky, Midna, Skull Kid and Impa.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I do get the vibe that for Ultimate they did heavily consider Isaac for the roster but just decided not to go through with it for one reason or another.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

In a way, his chances are comparable to Waluigi.

The real problem of Waluigi is he's still thorn between the Mario's franchise and the Wario's franchise.

 

[Gengar84]

Let’s do the opposite. Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

I think the biggest reason for all of them would be lack of current relevance. I think Jigglypuff has the added hurdle of a ton of competition within its home series and even generation but has the benefit of being one of Smash’s original 12 so it kind of cancels out. I feel like K. Rool is the least likely to be cut because he’s here explicitly because so many fans requested him. I think it would sting extra hard with all that considered. There’s a chance the next game could have a stronger focus on villains so I could envision a scenario where Falco is cut and they keep Wolf and Palutena is cut for Hades or Medusa. That’s just pure speculation though. Little Mac has the issue of being really bad competitively combined with Punch Out not getting a game for a long time.

That said, I think each of them has a stronger focus case for returning and I could easily see them all come back but none are guaranteed, especially in the event we scale back to a much smaller roster like some predict.

 

[fogbadge]

The real problem of Waluigi is he's still thorn between the Mario's franchise and the Wario's franchise.

how can you be torn between your own franchise and one you've never appeared in?

 

[Gengar84]

how can you be torn between your own franchise and one you've never appeared in?

I think it’s because Waluigi is still so linked to Wario thematically despite never actually appearing in a Wario game. He was created as Wario’s doubles partner in Mario Tennis and is another evil version of one of the Mario characters who wears purple, has a pink nose, and who’s name starts with Wa followed by the Mario brother’s name.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Let’s do the opposite. Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

Jigglypuff: Relevancy reasons since it’s not as popular compared to the past and not every franchise has its starting characters available in every game.

Falco: Either replaced by Wolf or it’s just Fox

Little Mac: Moveset isn’t working and no new game

Palutena: Only Pit stays

King K Rool: Either it’s for relevancy since it hasn’t appeared in a game since 2008 outside of Smash or DK only gets two characters.

Honestly, non of them seem likely to be cut unless there is a significant roster cut.

 

[fogbadge]

I think it’s because Waluigi is still so linked to Wario thematically despite never actually appearing in a Wario game. He was created as Wario’s doubles partner in Mario Tennis and is another evil version of one of the Mario characters who wears purple, has a pink nose, and who’s name starts with Wa followed by the Mario brother’s name.

he’s still not in the franchise

 

[Louie G.]

Most characters stay, but these guys get cut. What would be the dev’s justification for doing so?

Because they hate me.