Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Bölverkaizer]

SRW rivals Sonic in having some of the most hype final boss themes in gaming.

But i doubt they would ever put them in because Jam project is the band that made them. (You'd have to pay multiple singers for royalties maybe? I dont know jack about music licensing)
Granted one of the singers of Jam project sang a large chunk of the Pokemon openings so they already have one of them connected to Nintendo.

At the very least some of these tracks have acoustic versions, not sure if they would still need to pay for them tho.

 

[Watuna4343]

I'll assume pure time constraints. Plant, Corrin, and Ivysaur.

Idk about Ivysaur really counting because it's kind of a package deal with Squirtle and Pokemon Trainer so they go as well

 

[SPEN18]

I don't disagree; I don't have Jigglypuff very high either (52nd out of 66 first parties, which definitely puts her in my "low priority" range), but I feel like the addition/return of new Pokemon gives her possible buffers she didn't have before.

She likely beats Incineroar (could go either way, but they feel pretty even and I think this is a case where seniority would be the tiebreaker), and honestly, I can see both of them above Squirtle and Ivysaur; in a trimmed roster with the knowledge he can't bring everyone back, I can see a world where Sakurai choosing to prioritize bringing back the other (non-Pichu) Pokemon vets first to catch the widest net.

I guess that would come down to what you think Smash 6 will prioritize in vet retention, but I do think she could plausibly be like, the third/fourth lowest unique Pokemon instead of the last this time. And likely still get cut regardless

I mean yeah, Jiggs will be low priority but you could easily argue for several others being lower than it, including Incineroar, Squirt, and Ivy. Realistically, there's a wad of characters I would consider to be around the same tier but the parameters of the question were to name specifically three, so...have to pick somebody lol. One point is that for a lot of the others, like say Squirt and Ivy, there's a more real argument that they could be higher, whereas I think Jiggs is pretty much guaranteed to be somewhere on the low end. Though, of course, we're only guessing at the end of the day, and I mean I could see a world where the Trainer concept is simply deemed from the start to be a very not-good idea to sink so many resources into under the constraints of a cutdown roster, and Squirt/Ivy are simply never on the table to return. Could happen, maybe.

 

[TheZizz]

In my opinion, sakurais game that he's "not necessarily personally interested in" can only be "melee 2". Especially if the plan is a reboot, there is no more obvious alternate design template than "melee 2" since it is pre-existing, and praised to this day

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

In my opinion, sakurais game that he's "not necessarily personally interested in" can only be "melee 2". Especially if the plan is a reboot, there is no more obvious alternate design template than "melee 2" since it is pre-existing, and praised to this day

I have no idea what project this is referring to because while Sakurai did mention in an interview I guess semi-recently something along those lines, he moreso meant as a professional game dev, you can't always just make a game for yourself because you're making a product for other people to buy, as far as I understand it.

We have no idea what his project from 2021/2022 is, but considering he wrote the project plan "at lightning speed", I doubt it's something he dislikes.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'll assume pure time constraints. Plant, Corrin, and Ivysaur.

I feel like if Ivysaur gets cut then it will probably just be Charizard like how it was in Smash 4.

 

[TheZizz]

I have no idea what project this is referring to because while Sakurai did mention in an interview I guess semi-recently something along those lines, he moreso meant as a professional game dev, you can't always just make a game for yourself because you're making a product for other people to buy, as far as I understand it.

We have no idea what his project from 2021/2022 is, but considering he wrote the project plan "at lightning speed", I doubt it's something he dislikes.

I'm just not sure what game sakurai has made in the past that fits this criteria he talks about. Like, was kid Icarus uprising more of an obligation for him? What game is he talking about? But I think sakurais statements on a given day typically pertain to what his current focus is in some way

 

[Dinoman96]

Cold harsh truth is that Nintendo has no real reason to specifically pander to the Melee fanbase by making a "Melee 2" or even an HD remaster for it, lol.

I'm just not sure what game sakurai has made in the past that fits this criteria he talks about. Like, was kid Icarus uprising more of an obligation for him? What game is he talking about? But I think sakurais statements on a given day typically pertain to what his current focus is in some way

IIRC Kid Icarus was born out of Iwata wanting to Sakurai to work on an original project for the then-coming 3DS. Sakurai came up with the concept of a game that would switch between aerial and grounded combat and Iwata let him choose an existing Nintendo property to use for it, and Sakurai ultimately decided on Kid Icarus, feeling it fit the best for his game concept and also knowing that a lot of people were clamoring for Pit's return (especially in the wake of Brawl).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm just not sure what game sakurai has made in the past that fits this criteria he talks about. Like, was kid Icarus uprising more of an obligation for him? What game is he talking about? But I think sakurais statements on a given day typically pertain to what his current focus is in some way

I mean, he may just be speaking generally since it's a pretty general statement and he knows a lot of big name developers, he may have had some experience with this during his time at HAL Labs...

Doesn't have to mean that what he's working on right now is something he really dislikes.

 

[TheZizz]

I mean, he may just be speaking generally since it's a pretty general statement and he knows a lot of big name developers, he may have had some experience with this during his time at HAL Labs...

Doesn't have to mean that what he's working on right now is something he really dislikes.

I think he's eager to reveal his project like most devs tend to be, and teasing something he thinks fans will love that is not his cup of tea. Of course when I say there is no other possibility I'm being tongue-in-cheek. But we all know how coy he can be

 

[Pupp135]

While lurking on gamefaqs, I found this interesting poll asking how players value gameplay vs. legacy for a fighter. Personally, I think I probably value 60% Gameplay vs 40% Legacy for a fighter as some of the more obscure ones (Ice Climbers and nowadays Sheik) are some of my most played fighters, but this is a crossover, so popular characters are also important to add even if they aren’t the ones that strike my interest. I think 60-40 in either direction seems reasonable to me.

A bit of a different topic BUT since we are in the topic of Smash characters speculation, I'm interested in doing a turn towards removed characters' speculation.

Let's assume that for the next Smash game, we find out somehow (say a leak, a report etc.) that among the cut characters, only 3 are Nintendo (1st party) unique characters (so non-clones basically). Which 3 Nintendo unique/non-clone fighters do you think would be the ones most likely to get cut in the next game? The ones that I think will miss out are from the most over-repped series, so Piranha Plant (Mario), Corrin (Fire Emblem) and Mewtwo (Pokémon). Mewtwo was obviously the one of the 3 I was the most uncertain about as I had other candidates for the 3rd spot (Wii Fit Trainer or ROB) but ultimately the fact that it's part of an over-repped series and that it's been cut before makes me think it might leave again. But yeah, in a scenario where we found out that 3 Nintendo unique/non-clone fighters are among the cut fighters in the next game, who do you think they'd be?

Corrin and Piranha Plant are the lowest hanging fruits here given that Corrin is a divisive addition, and Piranha Plant was a bonus DLC fighter that seems easy to write off. For my third one, it gets more complicated as you can make a compelling reason for multiple fighters, but I think I would probably guess that Bowser Jr. is the third cut with Mewtwo being the dishonorable mention. My logic for these two being in danger comes from Super Mario and Pokemon having the most room to prune out fighters, they’ve historically been low priority (Bowser Jr. in For and Mewtwo in Brawl), and they don’t have the luxury that Jigglypuff has as an easier fighter to develop.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Cold harsh truth is that Nintendo has no real reason to specifically pander to the Melee fanbase by making a "Melee 2" or even an HD remaster for it, lol.

I kinda don't think the community would even want a "Melee 2", but a re-release would be fairly lucritive since the community's current state is trying to find a butt ton of working CRTs in this day and age.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A bit of a different topic BUT since we are in the topic of Smash characters speculation, I'm interested in doing a turn towards removed characters' speculation.

Let's assume that for the next Smash game, we find out somehow (say a leak, a report etc.) that among the cut characters, only 3 are Nintendo (1st party) unique characters (so non-clones basically). Which 3 Nintendo unique/non-clone fighters do you think would be the ones most likely to get cut in the next game? The ones that I think will miss out are from the most over-repped series, so Piranha Plant (Mario), Corrin (Fire Emblem) and Mewtwo (Pokémon). Mewtwo was obviously the one of the 3 I was the most uncertain about as I had other candidates for the 3rd spot (Wii Fit Trainer or ROB) but ultimately the fact that it's part of an over-repped series and that it's been cut before makes me think it might leave again. But yeah, in a scenario where we found out that 3 Nintendo unique/non-clone fighters are among the cut fighters in the next game, who do you think they'd be?

Choosing Corrin and Piranha Plant is obvious. But Mewtwo is just foul. One can be objectively wrong with an opinion in this case.

Joking aside, it won't be Mewtwo. He's near and far the most requested veteran who was ever cut. Hence the special dedication of making him the first ever Smash DLC character.

I'd choose Ice Climbers myself. Wii Fit Trainer being a second choice here maybe.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd choose Ice Climbers myself. Wii Fit Trainer being a second choice here maybe.

I'd do Wii Fit Trainer over Ice Climbers because 1, while character replacements don't really work, we are getting a new character with a simmilar niche, and 2, the Ice Climbers are pretty beloved members of the roster, and I think it's to a higher degree than Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Opossum]

Choosing Corrin and Piranha Plant is obvious. But Mewtwo is just foul. One can be objectively wrong with an opinion in this case.

Joking aside, it won't be Mewtwo. He's near and far the most requested veteran who was ever cut. Hence the special dedication of making him the first ever Smash DLC character.

I'd choose Ice Climbers myself. Wii Fit Trainer being a second choice here maybe.

As someone who thinks Mewtwo has an incredibly strong case for returning...you can't really sing the praises of Mewtwo's historic cut backlash and then say to cut the Ice Climbers lol. They're like the one character whose removal was discussed by Sakurai publicly, wherein he even said they were intended to be in Smash 4 and were only cut due to the 3DS's hardware limitations. Assuming the Switch 2 has more processing power than a graphing calculator, they're honestly pretty damn safe imo due to their gameplay alone.

 

[Perkilator]

If characters from games that came out after July 2021 (aside from the obligatory new Pokémon) really are too late for at least the base game of the next Smash game, then at the very least I'd like for them to appear in the first season of DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd do Wii Fit Trainer over Ice Climbers because 1, while character replacements don't really work, we are getting a new character with a simmilar niche, and 2, the Ice Climbers are pretty beloved members of the roster, and I think it's to a higher degree than Wii Fit Trainer.

Personal bias. I was about to type Wii Fit Trainer first. But yeah, Ice Climbers have been around longer. They tend to end up glitchy however. So that was one of my reasons. I also have way more trust in the future of Wii Fit than Ice Climber.

 

[RileyXY1]

As someone who thinks Mewtwo has an incredibly strong case for returning...you can't really sing the praises of Mewtwo's historic cut backlash and then say to cut the Ice Climbers lol. They're like the one character whose removal was discussed by Sakurai publicly, wherein he even said they were intended to be in Smash 4 and were only cut due to the 3DS's hardware limitations. Assuming the Switch 2 has more processing power than a graphing calculator, they're honestly pretty damn safe imo due to their gameplay alone.

Another thing that could get the ICs cut is the possibility of them adding 16 Player Smash as a new mode. The new Mario Kart game is already allowing up to 24 racers in one race, so Smash could try something similar.

 

[Opossum]

Another thing that could get the ICs cut is the possibility of them adding 16 Player Smash as a new mode. The new Mario Kart game is already allowing up to 24 racers in one race, so Smash could try something similar.

Stop baiting people with made-up nonsense lol.

 

[fogbadge]

Another thing that could get the ICs cut is the possibility of them adding 16 Player Smash as a new mode. The new Mario Kart game is already allowing up to 24 racers in one race, so Smash could try something similar.

I don't see how that could be done without it being a colossal mess

 

[Diddy Kong]

As someone who thinks Mewtwo has an incredibly strong case for returning...you can't really sing the praises of Mewtwo's historic cut backlash and then say to cut the Ice Climbers lol. They're like the one character whose removal was discussed by Sakurai publicly, wherein he even said they were intended to be in Smash 4 and were only cut due to the 3DS's hardware limitations. Assuming the Switch 2 has more processing power than a graphing calculator, they're honestly pretty damn safe imo due to their gameplay alone.

Probably yeah. But I still feel Mewtwo is leagues ahead of Ice Climbers in terms of priority myself. Mewtwo is a marketable character outside of Smash after all. Very well known by people who don't even know much of Nintendo. Real life proofs the most reliable source here.

Unless a hard reboot, in which case they cut out characters included on base of a gimmick, I think Ice Climbers are probably safe enough. Sheik too, since I always mentoin her.

I just don't believe there will be that many cuts myself. Not anymore. So that helps.

 

[Jave]

8 Player Smash is already too chaotic. Anything above that would be borderline unplayable in the traditional Smash sense.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Another thing that could get the ICs cut is the possibility of them adding 16 Player Smash as a new mode. The new Mario Kart game is already allowing up to 24 racers in one race, so Smash could try something similar.

Why was my first thought reading "Smash battle royale"?

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

I feel like if Ivysaur gets cut then it will probably just be Charizard like how it was in Smash 4.

Idk about Ivysaur really counting because it's kind of a package deal with Squirtle and Pokemon Trainer so they go as well

I don't disagree either, it's not likely Ivysaur gets x'd without Squirtle, and I don't expect it; but crackpot theory; I don't think it's impossible. I don't think they have a "Trainer or Charizard" 'clause so much as a "What's done at the end of development is done" 'clause. Assume Squirtle was somehow the last character they had time to finish and time ended just before Ivysaur.*

I doubt Sakurai would just throw away a fully functioning character, he's not a wasteful person and probably plans for edge cases like this; I sooner believe someone like him would just do Solo Squirtle along with SoloZard as a last-ditch measure, even if it'd look weird to us.

Again, fringe case, but the prompt said "only 3", and cutting only the bottom 3 non-clone first parties on my list results in that fringe scenario (Squirtle is 4, exactly one spot above Ivy for reference) so I just rolled with it. If not Ivysaur though, I would have picked Bowser Junior or Incineroar.

8 Player Smash is already too chaotic. Anything above that would be borderline unplayable in the traditional Smash sense.

I agree, but at the same time... imagine a 16-Player Falcon Punch combo lol

 

[Ivander]

Why was my first thought reading "Smash battle royale"?

I mean, I wouldn't say it's impossible and Nintendo is certainly not against looking into the Battle Royale concept for something like with the 99 games.

 

[Perkilator]

On one hand, I don’t think 16-player Smash could be pulled off without being an unplayable mess. On the other hand, I can at least see an 8-player Smash Run where the players can co-exist on the same screen.

 

[chinkuru]

I imagine a Phoenix wright reveal trailer being done in this style:

And done in the middle of a Nintendo direct to really throw people off.

And what establishes it as a Smash reveal trailer would be a Nintendo character yelling "Objection!" and showing up on the witness stand with an invite in hand.

So like this?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't disagree either, it's not likely Ivysaur gets x'd without Squirtle, and I don't expect it; but crackpot theory; I don't think it's impossible. I don't think they have a "Trainer or Charizard" 'clause so much as a "What's done at the end of development is done" 'clause. Assume Squirtle was somehow the last character they had time to finish and time ended just before Ivysaur.*

I doubt Sakurai would just throw away a fully functioning character, he's not a wasteful person and probably plans for edge cases like this; I sooner believe someone like him would just do Solo Squirtle along with SoloZard as a last-ditch measure, even if it'd look weird to us.

If it came down to it, at this exact given situation, I think Sakurai just would postpone the inclusion of Pokemon Trainer. And possibly include the Pokemon Trainer with Ivysaur whenever they finish up Ivysaur.

And if any case happens they wanna ditch the whole Trainer mechanic, I think they'll just wanna stick with Charizard alone.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cold harsh truth is that Nintendo has no real reason to specifically pander to the Melee fanbase by making a "Melee 2" or even an HD remaster for it, lol.

At the very least, it should come out on NSO once they start doing Gamecube games.

Speaking of which, wtf is Smash 64, Nintendo?!

Why was my first thought reading "Smash battle royale"?

On the Smash Run map!

 

[Slime Scholar]

This is cool, but I think if they did a trailer in the AA style, they'd want it to be a bait-and-switch so that it's not immediately obvious that the trailer is for Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The only way just Ivysaur is getting cut is if due to a huge mismanagement, they finished Squirtle and Charizard, but Ivysaur is nowhere near done and they don't have time to add it, so oops: Solo Charizard and Solo Squirtle.

Even then though I agree with Diddy Kong that they'd probably just make Pokémon Trainer a preorder DLC character.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I could see Ice Climbers being cut if they have a Splatoon idol duo and/or Noah and Mio working together as a unit.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

If it came down to it, at this exact given situation, I think Sakurai just would postpone the inclusion of Pokemon Trainer. And possibly include the Pokemon Trainer with Ivysaur whenever they finish up Ivysaur.

And if any case happens they wanna ditch the whole Trainer mechanic, I think they'll just wanna stick with Charizard alone.

By "postpone", do you mean move to DLC? If ya did, I actually didn't consider that at all. That'd be one way to solve it.

But that also has the problem of cutting Charizard, and if he's already done and working... idk. Regardless I think I'll go back and draft this theory more.

The only way just Ivysaur is getting cut is if due to a huge mismanagement, they finished Squirtle and Charizard, but Ivysaur is nowhere near done and they don't have time to add it, so oops: Solo Charizard and Solo Squirtle.

I mean, that's more or less the scenario I was describing. Development time being just tight enough to end exactly before Ivysaur, which yeah - 99% impossible, and it'd be a emergency move. I doubt my theory'll ever be tested, so in practice it may not make a difference if there is a "Trainer or Charizard" clause or not.

But I like to consider those 1% likely scenarios 'cause I imagine if anyone, Sakurai would too.

 

[Dinoman96]

I could see Ice Climbers being cut if they have a Splatoon idol duo and/or Noah and Mio working together as a unit.

What? Why would that lead to Ice Climbers being cut? That's like saying Pokemon Trainer would lead to Zelda and Sheik getting cut because they have (or at least did in Brawl, in Zelda/Sheik's case) the same transformation gimmick.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Crackpot Smash Ideas: Callie & Marie are added. Their down special slowly shrinks the blast zone for as long as you hold the button.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

All this is hinging on the idea that Ivysaur specifically is saved to the very end of development just because it's Ivysaur. With Squirtle just barely squeaking by.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Also not making sense is the idea of Sakurai, who has spoken against the "DLC scam" of making people pay for incomplete content that was supposed to be on release....pushing Pokémon Trainer into DLC just because, again, Ivysaur specifically was held back simply because it's Ivysaur.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Cold harsh truth is that Nintendo has no real reason to specifically pander to the Melee fanbase by making a "Melee 2" or even an HD remaster for it, lol.

Melee fans don't want an HD remaster or a Melee 2. They just want a more accessible Melee (or at the very least, for Nintendo to leave them alone and stop harassing them over stuff like Slippi), which is completely reasonable.

If the Smash devs implement wavedashing into the next game or actual alternative movement options that allow for skill expression on par with Melee, that Smash game might as well be considered a spiritual "Melee 2" and possibly retain some of Melee's playerbase if they like the game enough. Melee fans stuck with Melee because no other Smash scratches that same itch; it doesn't have to be this way and Nintendo has the power to change that.

You're right that Nintendo has no real reason to cater to Melee's fanbase to begin with, but if Ultimate was already taking all of these half-steps toward giving the competitive playerbase a marginally better experience, then I really don't see what's stopping them from going all the way.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What? Why would that lead to Ice Climbers being cut? That's like saying Pokemon Trainer would lead to Zelda and Sheik getting cut because they have (or at least did in Brawl, in Zelda/Sheik's case) the same transformation gimmick.

That's...exactly what happened in Smash 4.

 

[Dinoman96]

That's...exactly what happened in Smash 4.

No? The 3DS is what led to transformation characters getting axed. BritishGuy is implying that ICs would be cut to make way for a new duo type character...which I'd argue isn't how Sakurai works.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I still don't understand this whole "Ivysaur is on the chopping block" thing because I would assume Pokemon Trainer would be the one on the project plan (because Sakurai brought them back as a package deal in Ultimate when he could've separated them like every other transformation character), and we can very clearly make that character work again, unlike in Smash 3DS, so you would presumably build Charizard who would have very high priority because it's ****ing Charizard with the ability to switch to Squirtle.

Even assuming Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't built immediately after to have the full functioning character for testing purposes, why on earth would Ivysaur be saved for SO LATE in development that they'd end up axed due to time constraints?