Now that Customs are going to be legal...

[Alhobbies440]

Can we talk about how awesome the Doc is gonna be with the Ol' One Two up B custom off of down throw? That combination puts Diddy's Hoo Hah to shame. That one move may be the reason why Boss(Xanadu Luigi main) is going to main him in the upcoming tournaments. He's gotta jump at least a few tiers with that one move alone. What do you guys think?

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

While I agree that Ol' One Two is insanely powerful and should definitely be used more, I'm also concerned about recovering.

On the one hand you get a crazy strong kill option, but on the other hand you lose a lot of distance getting back on stage, a slightly worse OoS, lose UpB combo breaking abilities and will most likely have to remove Dr. Tornado for the recovery DownB, which would suuuuuuuck.

I really really love Ol' One Two, but it's risky to use.

 

[Alhobbies440]

In my opinion it's worth it in the right hands, but I do understand your concerns. Ol' One Two can really shake the meta up if the player can keep him on stage though. Getting grabbed by him at 70-80% is basically instant death for the majority of the cast. That is ridiculous and extremely scary. Maybe having those nerfs is worth it to keep him balanced.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ol' One Two is only nominally stronger (Kills 20% earlier and removes the threatening OoS option due to how its hitboxes work as it only has two) and you can't reverse it on the sweetspot hit to make yourself safer. Adversely it covers even LESS distance and makes an already bad recovery that much worse, which is why I can't recommend it in all seriousness unless some really applicable tech comes along with it.

Keeping Doc on stage may be a bit easier with Breezy Sheet and Fast Capsule + Doc Tornado, but I'm not sure....the risk is very very high.

 

[BloodL10N]

Okay I've heard talk of the Ol' One Two, what exactly is that in reference to? In other words the customs are 1 2 1 1? Or is it something else entirely?

 

[Alhobbies440]

I believe it's the third up B if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Kisatamura]

I love the Ol' One Two to death due to it being Doc's Hoo Hah, but using it turns Doc into a stubby Little Mac in recovery.

While Ol' One Two still has the generous edge sweetspot range that Doc's regular UpB has, it still can be risky. However it's one of the best tools for Doc, probably enough to send him pretty high (And I've usually ignored what the tier lists say for Doc)

But the loss of UpB combo breaking is a huge loss for me, since Ol' One Two doesn't have the quick startup of the regular UpB/

 

[KeeblerGuy]

How does everyone feel about the Gusty Cape? I feel like it's very solid on doc.

 

[Aurora2698]

Both Sheets are solid in their own right. Shocking Sheet KOs Bowser at 120% (is this value different on the Wii U?) at the edge of Final Destination (making it a good edgeguarder) while Breezy Sheet is better at gimping than vanilla Sheet. The problem with Breezy Sheet is that its ending lag and the fact that it throws your opponent away on stage makes it even more difficult to take a chance after reflection, while the amount of hitstun Shocking Sheet delivers mitigates the fact that it has even more ending lag. I personally would opt for Shocking Sheet, but it's all a matter of preference.

 

[Dobbston]

I would just go with the default Up B since it's such a great OOS option; the One Two is fun to mess around with but the second hit often whiffs and the default Up B is all-around better OOS.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

What's your opinion on the fast capsule? I tried it and it's a remarkable jab-locking move as it works at practically any %. Plus it goes a farther distance than practically any other jab out there. Granted, most human opponents usually tech, but if you use a move that's hard to tech when hit by (i.e. Nair, Fthrow, Dsmash), then that's a free smash/UpB. Thoughts?

 

[Astronut]

Fast capsule is really nice and has great properties, but I think the normal capsule is more versatile. One of the biggest things for me is when I'm recovering (starting from a top corner, coming down onto the stage), the trajectory of the regular pills covers you pretty well.

I'm on the fence about Ol' One Two. On the one hand it really jacks up Doc's kill potential, but it really hurts his recovery. I know Mario can combo his u-air into his version of the Ol' One Two, so it makes me wonder if Doc has any set-ups into it (other than dthrow).

As for Tornado, for now I'd stick with the regular Dr. Tornado, but I have to experiment with the others more. Cloathsline has a bit too much start-up imo, but I can see Soaring Tornado having its uses (similar to Luigi dthrow into Tornado maybe?).

 

[Boigahs]

All in all, I like default Doc best so far. Then again, I think I like every character default.
I'm not sold on the One Two. I haven't experimented with it much compared to the normal SJP, which I like a lot. I don't really feel like I have a need for the added killing power, but I do need as much recovery as I can get. Obviously the super jump is out of the question.
I prefer bouncing capsules. Even if the fast capsule was superior in every regard, I think I'd still go for the default (unless it was WAY better, of course).
Breezey cape seems cool. I haven't unlocked it, but it seems better in pretty much every regard that matters. Once I get it, I'll find out if I do like it. Thunder Cape seems useless.
Soaring Tornado seems like it's only a good option if you have Ol' One Two equipped and need the extra recovery. I haven't messed with it much, but I seem to remember that it kills your horizontal movement, which is what I use the normal tornado for when recovering. Not really interested in Clothesline, either.

 

[KeeblerGuy]

From my own experiences, I feel like the only custom worth going for is the Breezy Sheet. It's the original one 2x so you should just have it. Ol One Two is a great kill move and gives great DMG off of dthrow and dtilt, but I feel like the reverse from the original is too good to give up and also it's a safer OoS and as an edge guard. The default pills are also the best IMO, but you may prefer the fast capsule for easy jab locking. The default tornado is great and the others don't really compare to it. Overall, I'd go with just the Breezy Sheet as it has scored me more kills than the regular cape and electric cape.

 

[Crazc]

Hey now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. One or two major tournaments allowing them doesnt mean we have to. It took longer than 4 months for the official ruleset of Melee to be finalized, so why should 4's by any different?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Hey now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. One or two major tournaments allowing them doesnt mean we have to. It took longer than 4 months for the official ruleset of Melee to be finalized, so why should 4's by any different?

Because Smash 4 is not Melee and the sooner you all realize that, the better.
Anyway, as good as Ol' One-Two is, it's not worth the loss of an amazing Out of Shield option and decrease of an already abysmal recovery. If you want power AND recovery you're better off going with Soaring Tornado.

 

[Ridel]

Because Smash 4 is not Melee and the sooner you all realize that, the better.

No need to get hostile he was just using Melee as an example of how rule-sets can take time to fully blossom.

But anyways my preferred Doc set-up is 2312.
The Fast Pills are so versatile and can create so many jab lock set-ups that it's just to fun to pass up. I like the Shocking Cape as well but I feel that Doc already has a plethora of kill moves that it's not necessary, and the Gust Cape feels like a direct up-grade to the Cape in most situations. I don't fine the Ol' One-Two worth it over the default so I just stick with that. I absolutely love the Soaring Tornado it gives Doc much better recovering abilities and it's last hit has a ton of KB so greedy edge-guarders can be punished easily, though I know a lot of people say the default is the best I just feel I use Soaring Tornado more effectively.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

No need to get hostile he was just using Melee as an example of how rule-sets can take time to fully blossom.

But anyways my preferred Doc set-up is 2312.
The Fast Pills are so versatile and can create so many jab lock set-ups that it's just to fun to pass up. I like the Shocking Cape as well but I feel that Doc already has a plethora of kill moves that it's not necessary, and the Gust Cape feels like a direct up-grade to the Cape in most situations. I don't fine the Ol' One-Two worth it over the default so I just stick with that. I absolutely love the Soaring Tornado it gives Doc much better recovering abilities and it's last hit has a ton of KB so greedy edge-guarders can be punished easily, though I know a lot of people say the default is the best I just feel I use Soaring Tornado more effectively.

I dunno about the fast pills. Against skilled players, there won't be many cases where they will miss the tech and you can react quick enough to jab lock. I find the standard pills the best due to their bounce trajectory being perfect for ledge shenanigans.

 

[Ridel]

This is just my personal preference not what I consider "the best". It's not just it's jab lock properties that I like it's just what I find the most fun about it. I just like a quick projectile in my arsenal, as an Olimar main it just something I've grown accustomed too. Also I put this in another thread that B-Air from 20%-50% on grounded opponents gives little opportunity for them to tech and can effectively start a lock, N-Air can do the same but needs more testing.

 

[waldorf2007]

I personally only go for breezy sheet.
I value the normal pill too much for securing recovery, and I value the normal tornado because that move is just amazing.
The up B thing is something I'm not sure about. I think doc has plenty of kill power already with normal up B, bair (realistically killing more with that), and smashes.

The way I see it, if you want the power up B, you need the vertical down B, and that's a big change in how you control the character. I don't have time to flip my playstyle before tournaments so I stay with what I have.

I see few problems with breezy sheet though, I think reflecting is harder (smaller window?) but the air is great.

 

[kingman1]

I like 2-3-1-2.

 

[Wintropy]

I started experimenting with 2332 and I'm getting good results with it. I find that, if performed with good timing, Launching Tornado's vertical momentum mitigates The Ol' One-Two's awful recovery; the latter opens up possibilities for low-percent d-throw followups and mid-percent kills. Fast Capsule is fun for its range and stopping power, and Breezy Sheet is just a ridiculously potent gimp tool.

Of course I'm a scrub-tier Doc player so don't take my word for it or anything. :3