OFFICIAL GAME & WATCH STAGE DISCUSSION INDEX!
Announcement!
- I have an idea. I'm thinking about making an counterpick list for each character on this thread. I know there is another thread out there (in Stage Discussions) that has each character's best and worst stages, but I want to make a list of stages that G&W can CP or ban for each character based on G&W's advantages and disadvantages as well as his opponents advantages and disadvantages...let me know what you guys think.
- If you disagree with anything, or if you want to revisit a stage, please tell me and I'll add it to the list. I plan to revisit stages after we finish the discussion for all the important stages.
This thread will include a summary on how G&W performs on all the tournament viable stages. I will give a rating from 1-10 with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best. A 5 is a neutral stage that offers no advantage or disadvantage towards G&W. I will also include characters that have a huge advantage or disadvantage against G&W on the stage, so you will know which stages to Counterpick/Ban. Feel free to go to any of the stage discussions threads if you think something is incorrect or if you just have something to add. In order for this to work, I need your help! Contribute to the stage discussions! Feel free to add info (to the respective thread) on stages labeled "completed". "Completed" means I have completed the summary, but if you need to say something important, I'll will edit the summary and add whatever you have to say.
Format:
Summary - I'll give a summary about how G&W performs on the stage and note any particularly useful techniques/tactics on the stage. I'll also highlight a general strategy for this stage.
Rating - see below
Character - I'll name any characters that does really well or really bad on this stage, to alert you of which stages to ban or counterpick.
Rating System:
1-4: Terrible stage for G&W. These stages should definately be avoided and banned.
5-6: Fairly neutral stage. No terrible advantages or disadvantages. G&W can fight on these stages, but for counterpicking purposes, there are definatly better options. There is no reason to shy away from these stages.
7-8: G&W does very well on these stages. He can utilize his tactics very effectively on these stages. Not a bad choice for counterpicking purposes, if G&W's best stages are banned.
9-10: G&W excels on these stages. These should be your first counterpick options if they are not banned by your opponent.
Battlefield
Summary:The stage itself is rather small and limits the usage of projectiles, which benefits G&W since he has a crappy projectile. G&W can effectively pressure the opponent with is bair and force them to the edge of the stage. The ledges are very forgiving towards G&W's recovery; G&W won't get stuck under the stage like on FD.
G&W's nair truely devastating on this stage. It can rack up over 15% damage if you hit them through the platforms, and if they block it, you are completely safe from a counter attack. I believe uair can hit characters through the drop through platforms and launch them into the air, which can surprise them. I prefer to stay below the platforms and attack people through it with nair. More likely though, your opponent will be fighting you on the main platform (the bottom one). Push your opponent to the edge with bair and keep them there. If you space properly, you can take away a lot of there options and keep the pressure on your opponent.
I think G&W has some ledge/platform momentum boost/reversal technique that could possible be implimented on this stage, since it has a whole bunch of platforms. You can land a surprise bucket/9 if you use that AT.
Dthrow techchase ***** on the platform, since your dsmash will hit them if they:
1. lie on the floor and don't do anything
2. techroll to either side
3. normal getup
4. regular roll to either side
The length of the platform makes techchasing so much easier. If you correctly techchase them, you could hit them with a hyphen (running usmash), which is devastatingly powerful. Their only other option is getup attack. If you predict that, SH and dair, or you can sheild and regrab.
G&W's dair can hit taller characters (ganon, falcon, snake, etc) through the platform. G&W's dair is kind of tricky since the platforms get in the way. Dair can be punished if you land on the platform above someone with vertical range on their moves (marth's utilt/usmash, snake's utilt, DK's usmash, etc) that can hit you through the platforms. However, dair through a platform is much safer then dairing directly into them, because if they shield you will not be punished with a shield grab.
Rating: 6/10 - Not a bad stage for G&W, but he definitely has better counterpick options.
Characters: Ban this stage against Marth and Snake, as it is one of their best stages. Their utilts can hit you through the platform, often killing you at 100-120%. You can't dair them through the platform if they duck. You should avoid this stage at all costs against Marth and Snake because they are one of G&W's worst matchups and this is their best stage.
Final Destination
Summary: This stage is wide open, perfect for projectile campers. Unfortuantly, G&W doesn't have an effective projectile to spam with. However, G&W does have defences against most projectiles. G&W's bucket can protect him from energy based attacks, his tilts and aerials can cancel out other projectiles, and his crouch can avoid many projectiles. Most characters would not dare to spam G&W from the opposite side of FD, so G&W can hold out his bucket without fear. The mere threat of the bucket prevents many types of energy based spam. Usually, if you are at low percents, getting a bucket point is worth taking the hit, since bucket can easily KO at 50-80% (assuming your opponent isn't stupid enough to fill you with OHKO buckets)
The stage doesn't have any obstructions, so it allows G&W to juggle his opponents easily, which is one of his strong points. The stage is flat (as opposed to Yoshi's Island) so it allows landing certain moves easier.
FD does have a bad lip on it, which can cause you to get stuck, but you should be over that by now.
This stage doesn't have anything special. It's plain and simple. FD doesn't offer any significant advantages, nor does it pose a major disadvantage, however, I would avoid this stage if possible, but should you end up playing on this stage, there is nothing to hurt you.
Rating: 4/10
Characters: Ban this stage against a diddy. Possiblly the Links and maybe Snake.
Smashville
Summary: The size of the stage is just perfect for G&W. It makes projectile camping less effective, since G&W and close the distance in 1-2 seconds. That makes it risky for characters with laggy projectiles to spam G&W (not that it matters though, as G&W has one of the best projectile defense game). G&W can pressure his opponent with bair very effectively on this stage. You can often force your opponent to the edge of the stage and keep him there with your bair. Nair is also good for pressuring your opponent if he is standing on the platform, since he has no way of punishing you afterwards. Uair on the balloon is a quick and efficient way to refresh any moves that may have gone stale. The moving platform allows G&W to "springboard" off of it to chase high recovering opponents.
Some characters can easily go underneath the stage (pit, MK, pika, Rob, TL, and others), so that makes edgeguarding slighty more tricky. If you see them going underneath the stage, run over to the other ledge and do your usual edgeguarding techniques.
Rating: 6/10 - G&W does fine on this stage, but for counterpicking purposes, you should go with other stages.
Characters: The IC boards have SV as one of the best IC stages. The IC's can chaingrab incredibly well on flat, unobstructed stages.
Brinstar
Summary:
Also, attacking the breakable terrain (with jabs) will help refresh you moves, should they ever become stale.
Try not to dair the gooey thinh in the middle, you will stale out dair and most likely kill yourself.
Rating: 4/10 Brinstar offers nothing to help G&W, however, this may be a viable counterpick since many people don't have much experience with it.
Characters: The lava disrupts the IC's chaingrabs, which can save you if they know how to 0-death you. The gooey pillar things under the two side platforms can stop Rob's gyro. G&W's bucket can stop the laser, so that reduces the effectiveness of a campy Rob. Donkey Kong does really well here. He has 3 spikes to spike you through the lava, and the lava helps his rather poor vertical recovery. The lava will rarely kill DK due to his weight and the short blastzones only compliment his powerful attacks.
Summary: This is considered to be one of the best stages for G&W. Corneria has an incredibly low ceiling (2nd lowest) that allow for early kills off the top. The tight blastzones one either sides also allow G&W's powerful fsmash and dsmash to kill opponents at low percents.
Kill Data:
Jiggs dies at about 50% in the middle of Corneria from a Usmash.
DDD dies at about 80% in the middle of Corneria from a Usmash
DDD dies at 65-70% on the tip of the fin from a Usmash
*Need to add in kill data for tipper dsmash
All percents were done in training mode with no DI, and with the usmash fresh (obviously, since its in training mode). If you opponent is godly at DIing, at about 5-10% to account for his DI.
G&W can use his bucket to fill up with the lasers from the spaceships. The main ship provides the second most powerful bucket, dealing 42&, while the other smaller ships that fly around the most powerful buckets, giving you a OHKO that delivers 60%. You can just stand on those ships and hold out your bucket to fill up. As for getting the lasers from the mothership, that requires skill. I wouldn't risk it unless you have high percents, then you could go for a suicide bucket. I found an easier way to get buckets from the main ship. After you fill up, use up b and LAND ON THE GUNS, instead of going for the ledge. That way, you can't be edgehogged and you don't get stuck under the stage. This way is really safe and it works really effectively. I've also noticed that the main gun fires 35 seconds after the match starts. I'm not sure if it fires every 35 seconds though.
There is a tech that allows you to do a sliding fsmash on Corneria; its not to significant, but you might find a use for it.
Fin-camping is a effective strategy on this stage. If your opponent tries to approach on the fin, use nair and uair to keep them from approaching. If they make it over the fin and try to approach from above, uair spam the crap out of them. Dsmash repetitively on back part of the stage will cause them to get bounced around and possible killed. It's not something I would do often, but if your opponent makes it past your wall of uairs, just dsmash them back up. The fin also allows G&W to dtilt lock all the characters. Most characters know about the dtilt lock and will try to avoid it. A possible setup that almost always works is grab -> dthrow -> dtilt,dtilt,dtilt (lock). You can lock them in until about 125% or so and then smash them or release oil panic on them for the KO
Uair also has a high possiblity of killing on this stage. If you uair them right as they jump, you may be able to land a star KO.
Rating: 10/10 This is one of your best counterpicks. If it is not banned in your area, this should be one of your choices when CP'ing your opponent.
You heard it from the man himself.
Characters: Possible counterpick against MK. This is really good against Lucario, since early deaths prevent him from getting really strong. You might want to avoid snake here. His utilt is nasty.
Green Greens
Summary: Camping on the edges is very effective against most characters. Just like Corneria, its almost impossible to approach G&W since G&W can detonate the bombs if they get to close and nair or air if the approach from above. Ledge Camping/Planking is also effective on this stage due to the fact that there are six edges to choose from
Up b has invincibilty frames at startup, so you could *suicide* into the blocks if your opponents got too close. I think you can do the dthrow -> dtilt lock on this stage with the blocks, but you have to space it properly so you won't destroy the blocks. Dtilt, up b, bair, and chef are safe, reliable moves that can be used to detonate the bomb blocks.
You can actually make it under the middle section to either side with your double jump, Upb, and some good DI.
God, Amazing Ampharos is too good.
Rating: 9/10
Characters: MK, Snake (has a hard time in the air, and if G&W camp's right, Snake will be forced to approach in the air.), Anyone with bad aerials and no projectiles.
Summary: This pivoting platform on this stage is at just the wrong position for G&W to exploit it like he usually does. Nair and bair isn't effective at hitting them through the platform since its so high (especially when it is pivoting upwards). Also, characters rarely spend time on the platform anyways. The pivoting platform can sometimes stop your bair approaches (at the lower end), which can get really annoying. The platform is too high to hit opponent with dair (unless they are super tall and the platform is tilted down, which is highly unlikely), and it leaves you vulnerable. Also, the platform is too wide for G&W to effectively techchase with dthrow.
They layout of this stage creates a sort of "tunnel" to which projectile users can spam their hearts out. Campy characters fair really well on this stage. If Pit, Falco, Fox, and Wolf are close to the middle part, they can arrow/laser spam to bait out the bucket and then get a free dash attack or hyphen smash on G&W. G&W's only defence against lasers is bucket, which is now unsafe, and ducking, which doesn't work if the lylat trio are standing in the middle section (where it dips down a little). The Links and Snake also give G&W a hard time. If G&W tries to approach the middle platform gets in the way. Watch out for Snake's Mines and C-4's planted on the moving platform.
The Ghost Support platforms don't really help G&W, since he can make it back to the stage without their aid. The Ghost platforms gives an advantage to characters with bad/tether recoveries. So while the Ghost platform does help/hurt G&W, it may help your opponent avoid a gimp, which is bad.
The sides of this stage is really nice and it allows you to ledgecamp really well. Ledgehopped fairs and nairs work well to repel anyone standing near the edge. With G&W and only G&W, you can tap up on the right ledge and not lose a jump (tap jump off). This is huge! tap up, nair, falling nair, jump, nair, up-b. Of course there are many mixups that come with that. It also makes quick fair kills from the ledge a lot easier.
Dtilt is godly at edgeguarding on this stage due to the ledges being slanted down. It will hit many characters out of their recoveries (Fox, Falco, Ganon, Falcon, Mario, Luigi, etc.) as long as they don't have SAF or Invincibility frames. Dtilt is a disjointed hitbox, which gives it priority over most moves.
Ducking in the middle section is just too good.
Rating: 4/10 Definitely worth getting rid of this stage in a neutral stage strikeout. Whether to ban this stage or not may depend on your opponent.
Characters: Avoid Campy characters such as the Links, the lylat trio, Snake, Pit, Olimar.
Summary: The first transtion is really small. The platform and slope stage in addition to the small size makes projectile camping risky. You can easily pressure your opponent with nair and uair through the platform. The blastzones on the left side and off the top are really tight.
The second transition has two walkoff edges. Many characters can take advantage of this for easy kills; G&W can't. The walkoffs takes away G&W's superior edgeguarding game and his amazing recovery. The second transition is HUGE, and if needed, you can run down the clock fairly easily. This part also has two breakable statues which refreshes your (and your opponent's) moveset. Many characters with weak kill moves benefit from the statues' ability to refresh their moves. However, G&W doesn't suffer this problem given his multiple kill moves, uair, and simple move variety. You can force your opponents to stale out their kill moves by chillin' between the statues and dodging their attacks.
The thrid transition is a flat stage that tilts. This might throw off some projectile users, but fighting on this part is relatively straightforward.
Rating: 4/10
Characters: Avoid characters with powerful throws like Ness and DK or characters that have really good CGs like IC's and Falco, since they will devastate you on the walkoff transition. This is a bad stage for projectile users, but G&W doesn't really have a problem with them. If your opponent is REALLY spammy, take them here.
Halberd
Summary: First, some things to note about this stage. The Claw and Giant Laser of Death go after the character with the higher percent. At the beginning of the stage, if you do not get on the flying part of the stage, you will be KO'd instantly when it takes off. You can go through the stage, if you didn't notice that. You CANNOT bucket the laser, so don't try. If you even get caught in the laser, be sure to SDI out of it as soon as you can. It's not that hard to avoid the hazards, just be wary when you see something lock on to you or if you see this giant spinning blue bombo flying at you.
Wow...the G&W boards are mean ^_^
G&W can easily abuse the aerial transition with nair. His nair can exploit the floating platform as well as the main stage. Ledgedrop to nair (or uair...lol) through the platform will get any ledgeguarders away from the ledge, allowing you a safe return. Ledgedrop into up b through the stage also gives you an invincible way to get from the ledge back onto the stage. If people try to pull that trick on you, just SH and dair, which might spike them. Juggling them with uair and nair is really effective, especially if they are above the platform. They won't be able to hit you, since the platform is in the way, and if they try to airdodge, they will land on the platform, giving you another free hit.
The platform layout creates the "tunnel effect" similar to that of Yoshi's Island. The "tunnel effect" makes it a pain to approach projectile campers. However, G&W's crouch in the middle part will allow him to avoid most projectiles.
Rating: 7/10
Characters: This stage has a really low ceiling. People who kill off the stop (snake) can take advantage of this against you. Considering snake is already a bad matchup for you, I would avoid this stage against Snake. AA said he loves this stage against projectile campers, while the rest of us would avoid this against projectile campers, so its whatever you feel comfortable with.
Lylat Cruise
Summary: The low platforms can be easily exploited with the key and the fishbowl. The platforms are rather small, so G&W can easily techchase after a Dthrow. This stage tends to gimp people's recoveries. Learn to sweetspot the ledge and not get caught underneath the stage when use recover.
The platform layout create a "tunnel effect," which makes it difficult to approach projectile users. However, depending on the tiltness of the stage at that time and the properties of your opponent's projectile, the effect can be minimal, or it can be a huge pain. The tilting stage hurts the projectile users more than it hurts G&W. It makes it difficult to aim projectiles (especially a crouching G&W) and the platforms offer sometime for us to stand on to avoid projectiles.
G&W can nair an opponent through the stage if your opponent is standing near the edge. This will help clear out the area around the ledge, giving you space to get up from the ledge safely. This is fairly effective, but risky to do over long periods of time, as you might screw up and gimp yourself.
Rating: 5/10 A decent stage once you learn not to get gimped by it.
Character: ZSS is deadly on this stage. She has a lot of tricks up her sleeve. Snake can hide his mines/C4's on this stage really well, due to the color of the stage. Snake's like to place the C4 on the platforms (especially the middle one). Paying attention will allow you to avoid being blown up.
Please don't discuss the stage on this thread. Go to the respective stage discussion thread and post there.
Summary: Norfair has four hazards: The tidal wave of lava that comes with the Pod, the vertical strip of lava, the wall of lava that comes from the side, and lastly, the sea of lava below the stage. Of these hazards, the parachute will protect you from the first two. If your opponent beats you to the Pod, harrass him with nairs and either shield, abuse ledge invinciblity or use up b when the lava comes. If they are standing by in side of the Pod, hit them with a fsmash and then use up b to avoid the lava. If you beat your opponent to the Pod, spam Dsmash like crazy. Also, abuse the hazards in your favor. Hazards often make your opponent come to you, or at the least it makes their movements predictable.
Norfair has six ledges, which gives G&W so many options for recovering, approaching, and camping. G&W can supplement his "approach from the side with the turtle" with his "approach from below with the fishbowl." The platform layout and the ledges allows G&W to take ledgecamping to the extreme. The abilty to quickly transition from ledge to ledge abusing the fishbowl takes his ledgecamping game to a whole new level. The normal counters for ledgecamping do not work on this stage. G&W can easily abuse ledgecamping on this stage, and it's very effective on this stage if you have the patience for it.
The size of the platform is small, which assists your dthrow techchasing on this stage.
Norfair hurts G&W's edgeguarding game quite a bit. Characters that would normally get gimped by G&W seem to return to the stage with ease.
An utilt, usmash, or tipper dsmash will usually seal the deal for you if they are at higher percents on the outermost platforms.
Rating: 8/10
Character: The short platforms obviously hinder falco's CG on G&W. The lava and dropthrough platforms really screw up the IC's bthrow -> dthrow CG on G&W. Also, its easier to work around DDD's defenses around here. Also, the layout of this stage completely destroys diddy's ground-based banana game.
Summary: This stage has three hazards: The bow of the ship, which were dangerous and will spike you at low percents, the cannonballs, which are very telegraphed in their trajectory, and the catapult which is rather annoying, but it won't kill unless you are at really high percents.
The weird tilting of the ship, the stage transformations (boat hitting the rock, boat flying in the air), and the stage hazards all limit the projectile spam/projectile camping.
The usual nair through the platform and the dthrow techchase on the platform don't work well since people rarely spend time on the platforms. The key-spike can be used here, since its not as risky. Planking and water stalling is really effective on this stage. Its perfect for slowing the tempo of the match down.
Here's a wonder video by Mr. Escalator that demonstrates the Rock exploit and the Water Stalling under the rudder:
Two G&W water exploits
Rating: 7/10 The ledges are good to plank on, the water is benificial in some match-ups, the hazards create oppertunites and are easily avoidable with GW's chute.
Characters: Avoid Ike here, or you will sorely regret it. This is worth a ban if you are fighting an Ike. Snake and MK aren't as mobile here and will have a hard time keeping up with you here
Summary: I'm lazy today =]
Rating: 6/10 ^^^ Read what AA said above.
Characters: Possibly Olimar. He has lots of trouble in the water. I usually avoid characters with crazy throws (DK, Ness, Lucus) or locks (Falco, IC, Diddy). However, those characters can be handled by G&W and they don't pose a huge thread on this stage. The stage changes causes Snake's mines to detonate and some parts of this stage (pillars transformation) are aerial-based.
Summary:
Disregarding any technical advantage, pick black or dark blue G&W here, since its almost impossible to see him unless the room is super dark.
Stage Hazards: The klaptrap appears every 10 seconds on the right when the seconds timer reads 7. It passes through the middle platform when the timer reads 5. Be sure to be aware of the klaptrap, as it will spike you while you play ledgegames.
G&W can heavily abuse the size of this stage. The extremely high ceilings and the fairly large width allows G&W lots of room to bucket brake. Its not uncommon for G&W to live into the late 100's on this stage. I find this stage really good against characters that have terrible kill moves. G&W's smashes may be compromised slightly in killing power, but if his opponent doesn't have any kill moves, G&W may live into the 200's. Learning to Bucket Brake is a must on this stage.
Good damage racking strategies are techchasing and regrabbing on the side platforms and nair abuse. If your opponent always techs the dthrow, techchasing should be a breeze. Just dthrow, what their reaction and regrab. If your opponent doesn't know how to tech, just dsmash and watch them die and absurdly low percents. Nair abuse under the side platforms is extremely effective, just watch out for the klaptrap.
Your main kill moves on this stage are fsmash, fair, and sourspot dsmash. You can use usmash for damage racking, since you won't be killing with it and staleness won't matter much on this stage.
Rating: 7/10 I would not CP this stage, unless your other CP stages are already banned. It's not a bad stage, and I would suggest learning this stage and getting accustomed to the river.
Characters: This stage is a nightmare for characters with bad kill moves. Sonic, Peach, Diddy, Pit, etc. may find it extremely frustating against a bucket braking G&W that lives past 150% on every stock. Characters with strictly vertical kill moves will have a hard time killing here. Fox, Snake, Luigi, Shiek, etc. Characters with good vertical, but bad horizontal recoveries will have trouble recovering from the river's swift currents. Characters such as Ike, Marth, Mario, etc will fail to sweetspot the edge with their up b if they are swept too far downstream. I'm assuming Olimar will have trouble on this stage. He mainly kills off the top with his amazing usmash, and his pikman (except blue ones) die in the water, leaving him with a very weak recovery. Ike also seems to have a bit of trouble here.
NEVER take Falco here. You will get your butt handed to you with a slice of bread. I would suggest avoiding this stage against falco, but if you happen to play a falco here...
Luigi's Mansion
Summary: First off, a few things to note. Learn to tech off the ceiling. If your at high percents, you can survive a long time by camping on the first floor and teching off the ceiling. The best way to refresh your moveset is to jab cancel into another jab. Be sure to make it individual jabs, not a jab fury, or else it won't refresh your moves. Your hitbox stays active longer when it comes in contact with destructable terrain. This is especially noticeable with multihit attacks. You can use this to your advantage to throw off your opponent's spot dodge (just ask Phloat). The ceiling is super high here, while the side blastzones are rather tight. That means sourspot dsmash will be killing more often than usmash.
You have to play smart on this stage, moreso than other stages. Going to the first floor is often suicidal. If your opponent has a spammable move (tornado, ROB's dsmash, etc.), it is NOT smart to go down there to try to fight them. In addition to playing smart, you have to be really patient on this stage. If you opponent is camping inside, just wait on the roof. If they decide to force you down by destroying the 2nd floor, you are that much closer to removing their death traps. If they come upstairs, drop down to meet them on the 2nd floor, where its safe to fight. Also, consider running out the clock if your ahead. Its a viable strategy that might catch your opponent off-guard. Should you need to disassemble the building for some reason, dair and uair will suffice in destroying the pillars.
The optimal state of the house for fighting is 3/4 destroyed. It opens up the stage so its not so tight and cramped. If your opponent is really campy though, they might just completely destroy it and wait for it to reappear.
Rating: 4/10 This is definately ban-worthly, unless you second MK. This isn't a bad stage for G&W, per se, but the only reason you should find yourself here is if your fighting MK or Olimar, so in that sense, it is a bad stage.
Characters: Avoid against MK and Olimar. It's a nightmare fighting them here. Lucario can survive to really high percents on this stage (like everyone else), but surviving to higher percents help him exponentially more than it help us.
Summary: On the boat, G&W can dtilt lock. I usually stay in the middle and push my opponents towards the edge. That's a fairly effective strategy on most stages, but on this stage, its amazing. The small size allows G&W to put huge pressure on his opponents and to get kills extremely early. This stage is really cramped and its highly effective against campers who need space (ROB, links, samus, etc.)
I love the second part. G&W's amazing vertical recovery and the fact that he doesn't enter fall special afterwards gives him the edge over most characters. While your opponent is busy jumping and fighting against the stage, you can nair and bair him for free damage. The flying carpets are also good for dthrow techchasing. This transformation always gimps my opponents. Nothings funnier than seeing your opponent try to recover onto a platform, only to have the platform disappear! I've roughly memorized when and whereeverything appears and disappears, so I often use that to my advantage by pulling off some crazy stunts. Throwing your opponent as the pendulum disappears will often gimp your opponent, since G&W will almost always make it back. This is the time where I often get my first stock. Watch out for over powerer back throws on this part. One more thing about this transformation. Even if you fail to land on the platform, cancel you parachute and fast fall. Usually, you will be able to land on one of the lower offscreen platforms before they disappear, and you'll be able to make it back with a few jumps and an up b. Never give up hope!
The third transition scrolls to the right. You can get many uair kills on this stage, especially against characters with multiple jumps (kirby, DDD, MK, Pit, etc.), since you'll be usually fighting one of them on this stage. Abusing your lengthy throws on the donut blocks is something that will happen very seldom, but when it does happen, it's amazing. If you're smart with the part where it falls quickly down onto the boat, you can usually get a free hit in with one of your aerials. G&W has a dtilt lock on the beginning parts of this transition, but it doesn't last very long. As you are transitioning back to the stage, grab your opponent and uthrow to uair them for a free stock. Usually they will try to airdodge on the way down, to avoid your uair. Either hit them with a nair or if you are sure they will airdodge, you might try for a "9"
Rating: 10/10 This is my favorite stage for G&W. I almost always counterpick this at tourneys.
Characters: MK does really well on this stage. A good ZSS can hold her own on this stage, along with Wario. Also, Fino the Olimar is good on this stage, just in case you ever play him. Honestly, there's no reason to shy away from the stage, even against an MK, all you have to do is be wary of Shuttle Loop. You shouldn't be afraid of any matchup on this stage.
This is a really good stage against Falco, Diddy, and Snake, who are three common tourney characters. This stage is especially good against characters with bad aerial mobility, poor/weak/laggy aerials, and/or ground based games. This stage is also good against IC's and Olimar, though you rarely see them at tourneys, in comparasion to the previously mentioned three.
Stage Mechanics:
Summary: The first transformation has a platform that's nice to nair through. Characters rarely spend time on that platform though. On the left hand side, there is an "elevator" platform that moves up and down. This side is missing a ledge, but G&W usually doesn't have a problem with that since his up b goes really far. When the platform is down, you can dtilt lock for a brief amount of time and dthrow techchase. You can also dthrow techchase when it is in the up position. Dthrow -> dtilt is fun if the platform is in the down position and if your opponent fails to tech. G&W should camp out on the right side, since he has gimmicks like dtilt lock, dthrow techchase, and the hit through the stage with nair trick.
On the second transformation, the hated "tunnel effect" comes to play. If someone campy (say, Olimar, since you're probably CP'ing him here) stays under the platform, G&W has limited options to approach. He can chuck pikmin at you to force you to approach, and once you do either shieldgrab or usmash you to reset the trap. The middle part is really nice since G&W can duck under almost every projectile. G&W can also camp really nicely under the platform with nairs and uairs if they approach from above, and bairs and chef if they approach from the side.
On both transformations, there are support platforms that come in from the side, similar to the ghost platforms on Yoshi's Island. Be careful though, as they retreat back very quickly, and they will drag you into the blastzone if you aren't careful.
Rating: 5/10 Nothing particularly good or bad for G&W, just watch out for the sirens and jump before the stage flips, so you don't get gayed by the stage.
Characters: Apparently this is one of ROB's better stages. I would ban this against a ROB main, but it really doesn't matter since G&W doesnt have any problems against ROB. You might CP tethers here (Olimar, ZSS, Ivysaur) if they banned RC.
Pokemon Stadium 1
Summary:This stage has a really deceptive and gay lip on it. The angle of the camera makes it hard to see the lip. Here's how to avoid getting stuck under the lip:
The lip is really nice to nair under, as long as you are careful to recover correctly. Some moves like C4, dtilts, dairs, and dsmashes can hit through the lip, either spiking you or stage spiking you. Be wary when you are playing ledgegames on this stage. I believe G&W's dair and dsmash can hit through the lip, and maybe even his dtilt. This stage is also decent sized, so correct positioning and bucket braking will allow you to live to high percents.
A nice little trick I like to use on this stage is to use the windbox of up b to push my opponent under the lip while they use up b. This is really effective against vertical recoveries like Marth or Ike. Just position yourself so your opponent is between you and the ledge, and use up b right as they use their up b. The windbox will move them slightly inwards, and they will get stuck under the lip.
This stage is very campy. Characters like Pikachu, Ness, Lucus, and Pit have projectiles that can hit you even if you are hiding under a tree are a pain on this stage. Fortuantly, G&W doesn't have to fear projectile spam with his all-mighty bucket. A general rule is to stay on the left side of the stage on transformations, in order to get into the optimal camping position.
Normal:
This is slight a mix between battlefield and final destination. Nothing special.
Fire
Try to get to the spot under the tree. G&W can infinite his opponent under the tree and between the branches with dtilt and greenhouse. The best place to camp out on this transformation is under the tree. Bair can reach through the trunk if you want to attack people on the outside. Uair and Nair can easily shut down the only way to reach G&W. Dthrow is a beast under the tree and between the branches, since it will almost always lead to a free lock, since dthrow ->dtilt/jab is guaranteed if your opponent doesn't tech or DI behind you. You will rarely see anyone approach you on this transformation, and G&W shouldn't approach his enemy either. If your opponent beats you to that spot, don't approach, unless the timer is almost gone and you are losing.
Water
The water transformation is always fun to play on. G&W can duck under the moving windmill and attack anyone that tries to approach. Good at playing 'keep away', especially against MK. G&W can play around the waterwheel with his aerials, while using the walls as a barricade against most offenses, attacking from any angle he prefers. Works well against MK because his attacks are centered around close range. You can also abuse the wheels rotation to slide your usmash, or fsmash for surprise attacks. Nair, bair, and uair work nicely under the wing platforms yet again, while dair has its advantages from above.
Rock
Get to either the middle or left side and camp hard there. If you are on the left side under the cliff hanger, uair will stop anyone from approaching. you can also up b to quickly sweetspot the edge if you need to get out of there. The middle section is also nice for dtilt locking. G&W can also lock where the angled platform meets the straight platform
Grass
Nothing special to the grass section. It's just like another Battlefield.
Rating: 5/10 Nothing particularly advantegeous for G&W here. If you are good with manuvering around obstacles, then you may enjoy this stage. If you like space, try to CP another stage.
Characters: This is a good stage against projectile spammers like Falco, Pit, Pikachu, Samus, Wolf, Ness, Lucas etc. since the irregular either stops the projectile, or it makes it safe to bucket. Characters with strictly vertical recoveries like Marth, Mario, Ike, Luigi, etc. may find the lip extremely annoying. This stage might be one of your better CP's against MK. Not a bad stage against diddy, since the transformations can hinder his banana game. There are better stages against diddy though.
I would avoid Snake here. He can easily dropo C4's, Nades, and Nikitas on you, while you don't have any real defense against them. He can easily outcamp you on this stage.
Credits go to Amazing Ampharos, Mr. Escalator, Slikvik, Cutter, DMG, Hylian, Fake George, Phloat, Omegablackmage, Gates, Ironboots33, JustKindaBoredUKno, Jog, and Neb for their contributions to the stage discussions! Thank you!
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