Data Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Mr. Game & Watch

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[Kofu]

I still need to do some more testing, but for now the set that I would have for Game & Watch is:

1321

Default Chef is actually pretty good in this game at trapping since airdodges are a lot worse. Chain Judge seems like a straight upgrade from the original in most cases; the extra hits give the move a lot more shield pressure and 9 is still plenty strong. I'm still not comfortable with Heavy Trampoline (I'm very accustomed to the height the default gives) but the extra power behind it gives him an extra, if a little desperate, kill move. Default Oil Panic is pretty decent in this game; it tends to keep the power it used to have, and I like the threshold mechanic that allows strong projectiles to fill it instantly.

Most of his customs seem to have uses. XXL Chef seems better for edgeguarding since it's a big blockade and Short-order Chef gives him a ranged option (I don't like how it doesn't always initiate hitstun though). Standard Judge isn't bad but most of the time the effects aren't worth it, and I'm not sold on Extreme Judge because of the extra damage the 1s will give to G&W. Fire is still a great option and Trampoline High Jump goes even further and has huge power at the start of the move. Efficient Panic seems useful in MUs were the opponent is weak-energy-projectile-heavy (such as Mega Man with his pellets). I'd like Panic Overload better if it wasn't even slower than the default.

I'll post again after I have a bit more experience with them. I could see all three Chef variants, all three Fire variants, and Efficient Panic being used.

 

[asd_]

if customs are legal, gnw will jump from low tier to viable. default chef and bucket, but the upb with no trampoline is insane; the hitbox on startup is massive and so safe out of shield it isn't funny and allows for insane combo opportunities. its a shine on crack and this shouldn't be tourney legal. the hammer that is 1s or 9s is also ******** since gnw has a wide guaranteed percent range on follow ups to hammer from dthrow. this is just all cheesy play that I personally don't want to see but will happen if customs are legal










​

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

If it helps to narrow down the selection, I find the following to be within the higher end of the spectrum of viable G&W movesets:

1112 1131 1132 1211 1212 1231 1232 1311 1312 1331 1332
3111 3112 3131 3132 3211 3212 3231 3232 3311 3312 3331 3332

I do not have enough experience making efficient use of Judgement, so I will let other, more experienced G&W users decide which among his Side Specials are the best.

Chef is actually decent this game, though I find myself personally liking Short-Order Chef a lot more as a faster, more reliable way of dealing damage at a distance. Although ill-advised against armored characters like Little Mac and Bowser, it does well with making use of spacing and does just enough flinching to make it a slightly safer version of Fox's own Blaster without the lag-times regular Chef comes with.

Fire is a good recovery overall, but as mentioned before me, Trampoline Launch is really good. The preference depends on one's need for horizontal recovery or not.

Oil Panic is a solid move in certain match-ups, particularly against Mega Man, Ness, Pikachu, and Robin. Efficient Panic, while less powerful overall, does better against characters with faster projectiles that don't receive as much use, such as Mario, Fox, Samus and R.O.B. In other words, its purpose is to monopolize on certain match-ups regular Oil Panic won't get as frequent mileage out of. A side-grade strictly speaking as a counter-picking tool.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

As a Brawl G&W main, I really instantly found myself drawn to Short Order Chef and Chain Judge. Short Order Chef in particular lets G&W win projectile wars he really has no business winning and seems like just a go-to move while default Chef just seems to still be a pretty dubious projectile (not worthless but not going to compete with most of what other characters are doing). XXL Chef looks really good but it's just way too slow to be a practical move; it would cover space off-stage, but if G&W is going to actually win, he needs to put himself off-stage and put a fair and not food in the way of a recovering opponent.

Chain Judge is just great, far higher average return than either other variant and randomly good on block too (if you get a high number). Default Judge is great if you are a gambler I guess, but it's a really dubious move that I'd only bring if I was convinced my opponent was a much better player than I am (and thus swingy randomness is what I need to win). Extreme Judge is just pointless; getting #1 is always a really horrible outcome for G&W (self-damage and unsafe on hit!), and the weaker #9 hit means that even getting lucky isn't really getting lucky. If you want to gamble with side-B, go with default. If you want something of more general use, Chain Judge is the move.

All three up specials are good moves and really hard to pick between. I kinda feel like in real match situations up 3 is the worst of the three, just has awkward hitboxes it feels like compared to the consistently good OoS the other two represent (up-2 OoS is just so amazing; I want to always use it, but I don't feel like weakening the recovery is always correct). It's still not bad though; I think up special is the biggest and most important point of preference for G&W.

In the overwhelming majority of match-ups, I prefer default Oil Panic. It's just plain solid against any kind of projectile you can bucket, and if you can't bucket anything, down special doesn't even matter. I do like Panic Overload specifically for the Bowser and Charizard match-ups; you get a horrible bucket from those two all of the time, but that massive disjoint will make even a very weak bucket a move worth having (I would never use Panic Overload in any other match-up, just Bowser and Charizard, to be clear). Efficient Panic likewise I'd take against someone who fires bucketable projectiles very rarely which I'm pretty sure is just Samus except now Charge Shot fills default Oil Panic all the way in this game anyway...

That being said, I would personally go with:

Critical:

3321
3311
1311

Supplemental:

3331
3323
3131

Remembering that 3333 is already an option if you prefer up-3 and a big recovery against Charizard and Bowser.

Clearly others who actually do main G&W in this game look at this character a bit differently than I do, but that's how I feel. It would definitely be good to get some more input from team G&W on this one.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

This is all I got from that sad Game and Watch thread on Reddit.

3311
1331
1223 - 2 upvotes

 

[Pazzo.]

Alright, allow me to explain my setup... Which appears to already be on the critical list.

3311

-Short Order Chef-

Lets me put predicable projectile damage on an opponent. This is something I've felt that G&W has been missing, with the randomness of the default Chef.

-Chain Judge-

While not as fun as the default Judge, Chain judge is great for keeping ourselves safe from the evils of '1', while still giving us a power/gambling move.

-Fire-

Personally, I can't Down-Throw chase as well with the others. I can understand if you want to use Heavy/High trampolines for other match-ups, but the default already covers so many options, and in my opinion, is the best recovery in the game.

-Oil Panic-

Again, like the Fire variants, the customs on this are more situational. The default is just preference, as I don't have to worry about speed or the size of the oil.

That's just my two cents. Other than this, I think the other critical movesets are great (replacing Judge in every set) while still providing a good range of options. I would, however suggest that we replace our 1331 Supplemental set with a 1332 alternative. Efficient Bucket seems good for characters that like to throw out the occasional, yet moderately powerful projectile, like Samus or Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Another view to take from the reddit thread:

I would argue that running the 3rd upb and 3rd sideb be a goddamn good set, keeping the other two specials stock. I personally play that way. Here's why:

Neutral:

In general, we see Chef used as a way to negate under-stage recovery. Stock Chef is the best way to fill this role. 2 is far too slow to fill this role consistently. 3 doesn't arc enough, but it comes out much faster. I suppose I can test more with standing from afar.

Side:

Judge is both nerfed and buffed coming into Smash 4. Completely random means that one could land 3 ones in a row or three nines. Therefore, it can be argued that Judge is a move with bigger balls than before. The player pays a bigger price for a bigger move As for 2, I haven't tested it enough to be able to argue that it is "good" or "bad," but I will say that taking damage for attempting and getting a 1 still turns me off from the Judge combos I do with dthrow. 3 has no drawback for getting a 1 (other than that it sucks, but that is given in all Judge variants), while also racking up a ton of damage for 5-9. I run this one because while it has no fancy effects for the higher numbers, 1 does no self damage and 9 still launches greatly.

Up:

Stock Fire is still an amazing recovery. I don't like 2 because it kills the great recovery that Fire is; it isn't a good finisher, either, as it kills Ike at about 150% if you hit him at the bottom of the launch. I'll try it on more popular characters soon. I like 3 the most as it gives a huge boost to the vertical distance.

Down:

I've never wanted to change Oil Panic. I've tried 3 because it looks like it could be awesome in some match-ups, but I found that the attack area is too big. I didn't try 2 and I don't plan to; it ruins Oil Panic's role as a finisher, I theorize.

 

[Deleted member]

If this thread is still accepting suggestions, I'd like to chip in my two cents for custom moves. I currently use 3211 as my set-up. I'll explain my choices below:

3: Short Order Chef

Good for keeping range as the meat covers a lot of range and comes out/goes fast. Another benefactor is that the meat can occasionally stun opponents. More useful than the regular chef because it gives him a better/more reliable projectile.

2: Extreme Judge

If you're feeling lucky, you can pull a 9 out of nowhere and kill your opponent. The 1 does some knockback, but you can still be punished for it. The hammer also comes out slightly faster, allowing less time for your opponent to react. 9 doesn't do as much knockback, but it's still worth it as you can kill most opponents around 0-30% at minimum. I personally like this move better than chain judge because although chain judge can rack up damage pretty fast, it leaves you open to counter attacks as the hammers don't do much knockback.

1: Usual Fire

IMO, heavy trampoline doesn't have much kill appeal. Sure it can be strong, but it's not worth sacrificing one of the best Up-B recoveries in the game. Trampoline launch is good for vertical recovery, but lacks horizontal aid from the parachute.

1: Oil Panic

Honestly this one doesn't matter much to me, as it isn't even used against half of the cast. I'd just keep it normal; making it weaker is pointless and having a smaller absorption range isn't worth the trouble for a huge, predicable wave.

 

[Smog Frog]

up 3 sweetspot kills bowser at 126(no DI/rage) on fd from the ground

i'd say thats pretty impressive, and gnw is fast enough in the air and it goes so high that you probably dont need the parachute(if you dont go to the bottom corner blast zone your good, and even then if you dont use your 2nd jump you can recover from that)

also i cant stress how good a super quick kill move is for gnw

 

[TheMiSP]

So is trampoline launch better than heavy trampoline?

Also one thing I noticed on trampoline launch. When G&W is in his falling animation (both arms sticking out with open mouth), he falls noticeably faster than if you press down after the up b ascension (where he is falling as he "sits down"). And I think he doesn't fast fall if you gently press down.

So, if you want more horizontal distance from trampoline launch, be sure to press down to cover more distance (without fast falling).

Leading to another mad question. Does it cover more distance than regular up b?

 

[Ultima 3]

Neutral B
Chef: Scatters projectile at short and medium distance. Hits a maximum of 6 times. 1st hit does 5%. 2nd-6th hit does 4%. Maximum 25%. Holding B will shoot 5 pellets slowly. Rapidly pressing B shoots projectiles fast and continuous to fire after 5. Has a brief pause after shooting 5 in a row. Each pellet does 4%. Using close range on opponents hits with the pan. Pan does 5%.
XXL Chef: Scatters projectile at short and medium distance. Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 2%. Final hit does 7-9%. Maximum 11%. Rapidly pressing B continous firing projectiles. Has a brief pause after every pellet. Fish does 7%, low knockback. Meat does 8%. Sudden Death KO move. Bacon does 9%, high knockback. KO move at 210%. Using close range on opponents hits with the pan. Pan does 2%.
Fast-Food Chef: Shoots forwards. Scatters projectile at long range. Hits a maximum of 4 times. 1st hit does 0.5%. 2nd-4th hit does 1-2%. Maximum 7%. Holding B will shoot 3 pellets slowly. Rapidly pressing B shoots projectiles fast and continuous to fire after 3. Has a brief pause after shooting 3 in a row. Fish does 1%, no hit stun. Meat does 1%. Bacon does 2%. Using close range on opponents hits with the pan. Pan does 0.5%

Side B
Judge: Hits directly in front. Numbers have different effects.
1 - Does 2%. No hit stun. Self-inflicts 12%.
2 - Does 4%. Hits stun. Trips at 10%
3 - Does 6%. Pulls opponents towards you.
4 - Does 8%.
5 - Hits a maximum of 4 times. Each hit does 3%. Maximum 12%.
6 - Does 12%. High knockback. KO move. Near the edge 140%. In the centre 170%.
7 - Does 14%. Drops Apple. KO move. Near the edge 250%. In the centre 280%.
8 - Does 9%. Set knockback. Freezes.
9 - Does 32%. Very High Knockback. KO move. Near the edge 5%. In the centre 20%.
Extreme Judge: Hits directly in front. Can only get 1 and 9.
1 - Does 5%. Self-inflicts 5%. Self-inflicts even when it misses. V
9 - Does 23%. High knockback. KO move. Near the edge 20%. In the centre 40%.
Chain Judge: Hits directly in front. Numbers are the amount of times the opponent is hit. Higher the number, greater the knockback.
1 - 1%. No hit stun.
2 - 5%.
3 - 9%
4 - 11%
5 - 15%
6 - 17%
7 - 19%
8 - 21%
9 - 28%. High knockback. KO move. Near the edge 20%. In the centre 40%

Up B
Fire: Flings you into the air. Firemen have slight pushback effect. Deals 6% when flung up. Slowly parachutes whilst descending. Can attack whilst parachuting. Attacking gets rid of parachute. Pressing down gets rid of parachute. KO move. Near the edge 250%. In the centre Sudden Death KO move.
Heavy Trampoline: Flings you into the air. Not very far. Trampoline does 16%. Deals 10% when flung up. Slowly parachutes whilst descending. Can Attack whilst parachuting. Attacking gets rid of parachute. Pressing down gets rid of parachute. KO move. Trampoline; 140%. Being flung; 230%.
Trampoline Launch: Flings you high into the air. Trampoline does 12%. Deals 8% at the very start of being flung. KO move. Trampoline; 120%. Being flung; 180%.

Down B
Oil Panic: Absorbs energy projectiles from any direction. Must absorb 3 to use. Shoots a close range projectile. Does 39%. High knockback. KO move. Near the edge 30%. In the centre 40%.
Efficient Panic: Absorbs energy projectiles from any direction. Must absorb 1 to use. Shoots a close range projectile. Does 10%. KO move. Near the edge at 250%. In the centre Sudden Death KO move.
Panic Overload: Absorbs energy projectiles. Only from the front. Must absorb 3 to use. Shoots large medium ranged projectile. Will not hit directly in front. Does 30%. KO move. Near the edge 90%. In the centre 100%.

I tend to go with XXL Chef, Chain Judge, Fire and Oil Panic, maybe Panic Overload

So 2311 or 2313

 

[Rakurai]

I'm rolling with 2321 personally.

Short Order Chef is a nice, reliable projectile (Aside from the fish not causing any hitstun), and can be used to harass people further off-stage then the standard chef.

Chain Judge is just better then the normal version, due to the higher average damage, no damage from a 1, and better shield pressure.

Heavy Trampoline improves the damage G&W gets off of his down throw combos greatly, as a properly spaced trampoline can place you in position for an unavoidable aerial follow-up at low percents. It also gives him access to a very potent out of shield option that's quite safe even if it whiffs or is dodged/shielded. The lack of height while detrimental, isn't really enough to hurt his edgeguarding game terribly, and I feel his standard up B tends to be overkill for recovery most of the time.

Standard Oil Panic has the highest damage out of variants, and the benefits of the other two don't feel good enough to outweigh their drawbacks. Efficient Panic lacks the power to intimidate people into not using their projectiles (Aside from charged projectiles, which can still KO). It's much harder to absorb projectiles with Panic Overload, and the dead zone at close range makes it inconvenient to use as a punish, on top of not being able to combo out of down throw anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay guys, I'm starting to change my mind about Trampoline Launch and Chain Judge.

I underestimated Trampoline Launch's power early on, but now I realized that it's a legit killing move at around 120ish% for most characters if sweetspoted. It also covers a lot more height than the regular trampoline, and overall seems better than Heavy Trampoline at killing. You can pretty much emulate his parachute by using bucket at the end of the launch, and then use your double jump if you still have it. This move is also excellent for recovering if you use D-air off stage for an edgeguard.

Moving on, Chain Judge is a lot better at racking damage than the others, and 9 still does a decent amount of knockback. From what I've tested, low numbers are more common, but if you land anything above a 6 you're guaranteed 20+%. The only reason I liked Extreme Judge was because it came out a bit faster and it was easier to land 9's but now I'm starting to think it doesn't help much in most matches.

TL;DR: I'd say my new set up is 3331

I would also go 2331 because XXL chef has its occasional use for creating a wall of hitboxes.

 

[TheMiSP]

Which hurts a shield on sweetspot more, Trampoline or Heavy?

Idk if reliable or not, but with regular Fire I inputted R (regular controls on 3DS) as soon as I reached the max height, and I did a nair, allowing me to use my SJ almost soon after.

Gonna see if I can do that (nair at peak to SJ) to the other Fire customs, especially Trampoline Launch. And I believe at some distinct percentages when you launch an opponent with the sweetspot of Trampoline Launch, they would still be dead next to you (probably still in hitstun), allowing us to possibly also whack them with a nair immediately afterwards?

So maybe with Trampoline Launch at say 90% on opponent Up B -> Nair is possible?

Edit: Couldn't input R to get Nair on Trampoline Launch, I assume the same for Heavy Trampoline, but I seriously did that for regular Fire.

And I use either 1321 or 1331. Maybe I can explore with other Chefs.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So the project's current movesets for Mr. Game & Watch are:

3321
3331
1331
1321
3311
1311

These sets to me would seem to cover most of the really important stuff, Chain Judge and both default/Short-Order Chef paired with all three Fire variants. That leaves us with four more slots to fill for EVO, and here's what I'm thinking...

Panic Overload is mostly a bad move, but against Bowser and Charizard (against whom default Oil Panic was doing almost zero work for G&W) it seems like a pretty solid footsies tool to me. I truly don't see any use of Efficient Panic in this game where powerful energy projectiles like Samus Charge Shot fill multiple Oil Panic levels anyway. Whatever the optimum anti-Charizard/Bowser set is including down-3 may be worth including for cp purposes.

Extreme Judge is clearly just awful, but I can see an argument for default. Would some sets with Short-Order Chef and/or Fire variants with default Judge be preferred?

XXL Chef seems pretty bad to me but I'm seeing some niche support as perhaps a counterpick option. If we give XXL Chef one or two of the bottom slots, what sets would be optimal for counterpicking what match-ups?

I don't think G&W will be that hard to fill out to 10 slots for EVO all things considered.

 

[Ryusuta]

I don't like to commit to off-stage stuff and Game & Watch commonly, so I sometimes use XXL Chef just to harass a bit while someone is recovering. Granted you can do that with all of them, but the large size gives decent coverage and fair damage.

Granted it's not the best option as it cuts your on-stage harassment, but I think it's decent for what ti is.

 

[lllp3lll]

So yesterday I started playing around with customs, I feel 3321 is really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgToM7HyU3c

Fast chef gives as a projectile we can pester with.
Chain judge is a "safe fair". With 9 being un-sheildable.
Heavy trampoline's best feature is that it is fast and mix of the other upB specials. Not as high as fire but can snipe air to air, not as strong as trampoline launch but can KO OOS and does good damage.

Other thoughts I have are about XXL Chef- Its gives G&W a Gordo move with sausage killing villager @ 140% air to air. But it seems like it will have a high learning curve to use effectively given the starting/ending lag.

 

[Patriot Duck]

I've been running 3333 lately. The oil panic custom is up to preference really, but short order chef is great for zoning and shuts down some characters' approaches, chain judge is practically a straight upgrade, and trampoline launch is a safe kill move at ~130%. Heavy trampoline is good too, but it doesn't let me go as deep off stage than with the other trampolines.

 

[lllp3lll]

Trampoline launch is a great kill move that can be used OOS and allows you to go deep. But losing the ability to harass and end aerial combo's feels important for gw.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
3331 3321 3311 1331 1321 1311 3323 3131 2331 2311

Game and Watch has some nice customs to utilize. I organized them by the way the discussion proceeded, and threw in appropriate niches sets accordingly. I believe these sets should satisfy the different kinds of playstyles this character might want to use. Of course there's always room for improvement, so if you see any problems or sets that need to be changed/removed, you should discuss them now, before the deadline of course.

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Mr. Game and Watch:
1/3, 3, 1/2/3, 1 and niche XXX3, X1XX, and 2XXX sets
3331 3321 3311 1331 1321 1311
Niche: 3323 3131 2331 2311

 

[SFA Smiley]

Played customs recently in tournament will give a detailed opinion probably tomorrow night or whenever I get the opportunity to make long post over the next few days

 

[Pyr]

Been wondering... For the muti-hit judge, does each hit of each number refresh G&W's moves? Like, a 7 removes 7 moves from your queue? Haven't found much info at all, and I didn't see it in this thread.

 

[LRodC]

Been wondering... For the muti-hit judge, does each hit of each number refresh G&W's moves? Like, a 7 removes 7 moves from your queue? Haven't found much info at all, and I didn't see it in this thread.

I would think it would be similar to other multi hit single input moves, so probably not. It's more like Zelda and Duck Hunt's smashes, not something like Fox's blaster.

 

[MistressRemilia]

My set currently is standard + Fast Chef & NoParachute UpB, as i judge these moves are better.
For Judge, i really prefer the standard, as it is for me more of a comeback move rather than anything else, the weakened 9 really bothers me. For Oil Panic, it really depends on what you need. I think it's quite useful for some MUs, where it can kill stuff like ThunderJolt Pikachu spammer faster.
It's 3131

 

[thehard]

Played customs recently in tournament will give a detailed opinion probably tomorrow night or whenever I get the opportunity to make long post over the next few days

I am forever waiting

 

[Infinite901]

I mostly use 2311, but I also sometimes use:
2331
1311
3331
3311

Chain Judge and Oil Panic are definitely the best for those two. I don't like Heavy Trampoline because it's harder to recover from a d-air spike. XXL Chef has some good strategies simply because of the sheer size, mostly for people who are rushing. However all 3 custom Chef are viable.
Also, I have mostly gotten used to incorporating the Parachute into my strategy, so I usually go with the regular, but I've started trying to use Trampoline Launch.

I'd say G&W's only custom that is not viable is Extreme Judge, because that has a ridiculously uneven chance of getting 9 compared to 1 - when testing it out I would get anywhere from 10 to 30 1's before my first 9, in other words 50 to 150 damage to myself, which makes it painfully bad.

 

[lllp3lll]

Too simplify it I feel customs are something like this.

What would benefit your play-style the most:

A harassment zoning tool- Fast Chef
Aerial space control- XL Chef
Bit of both- Chef

Random Comeback mechanic?

Sure- Judge
I need this- Extreme Judge
I'd rather have some consistent- Chain Judge

Pick 1:

Going DEEP, OOS Kill move- Trampoline launch
L-Cancling Anti-Air- Heavy Trampoline
Combo Ender, Aerial sniper- Fire

 

[GimR]

If This gets reopened up we need at least 2 sets with the Extreme Judge. I'm thinking one with extreme judge and all other moves normal, and one with extreme judge and the golden up-B

 

[MistressRemilia]

If This gets reopened up we need at least 2 sets with the Extreme Judge. I'm thinking one with extreme judge and all other moves normal, and one with extreme judge and the golden up-B

Isn't the niche of Extreme Judge 25% of a kill from 45% to 85%? ( most likely )

 

[SeanS]

It is a 9% chance increase in the possibility of a 9 (20%) with almost two and a half times the amount of damage to yourself sustained over time on average.

Ignoring the fact that side B is nearly useless in practice by any player looking to play in a theoretically optimal way, it's generally understood that Chain Judge is better because it is more reliable statistically (more 3s and 4s specifically), does no damage to you, and locks people into shields with a potential pushback / can force 9s on shielders.

I do not see a need for an extreme judge set at all. The reward of a decreased knockback 9 that appears on just a few more occasions does not match the statistical setbacks, and there is no player-to-player buffer of a randomized, hitstunning moveset if things don't turn out as hoped as well; you would have less opportunities to go for a 9 in the first place because you would be dying much faster.

If anything, we need at least one set with XXL chef, preferably 2311; the use of this in certain campy MUs, while completely situational, is unexplored, and it may be an underused pressure tool.

 

[Infinite901]

If anything, we need at least one set with XXL chef, preferably 2311; the use of this in certain campy MUs, while completely situational, is unexplored, and it may be an underused pressure tool.

Aren't 2311 and 2331 already on there?

 

[SeanS]

Aren't 2311 and 2331 already on there?

I don't want to take recovery nerfs.

 

[Infinite901]

I don't want to take recovery nerfs.

I'm just saying that 2311 and 2331 are already on the list, giving us two XXL Chef sets.

 

[Liwi808]

Casting my approval for 1321.

Neutral B
I actually feel like standard Chef is pretty good, and probably your best option. It's the most versatile of all the Chefs, and is the best for mixing up your use of B. XXL Chef is waaaay too slow, and while is good for edge-guarding, Gdubs has a plethora of good (and arguably better) options for edge-guarding your opponent. Hell, you can even use standard Chef for that, which I argue is even better since the multiple hit-boxes make it harder to avoid.
You can do that during your ground game too, since you can delay how fast your food comes out, or even just do one or two and stop. I find myself a lot just needing to do one neutral B, since your opponent will still try to avoid it (giving you an opportunity to follow up). The speed isn't a problem most of the time either, as long as you know when to do just one or two or when you can do more. The random trajectories of your pan make it difficult to approach for slow/large characters, and will actually work as a wall since all of your food does hit-stun (unlike Fast Food Chef). Fast Food Chef's other problem is that its trajectory doesn't let you edge-guard with it. It doesn't even work that well on the ground, since it's much harder to mix up unlike standard Chef. It's just not as good of a move IMO as everyone is making it out to be.

Up B
After using Heavy/Launch Trampoline for a while, I've come to prefer Heavy trampoline by FAR. At first I was put off by the reduced recovery at first, but now I'm completely in love with the move. Yeah the reduced recovery is a bummer, but TBQH it's not that big of a loss. All that means is that you can't go for completely crazy d-air spikes anymore. But other than that, due to Gdub's extremley light weight, he's more likely to die from off the side or top most of the time, than from not having a good
enough recovery.
Not only that, but it has a lasting hitbox throughout the whole move (unlike Launch), which means it can be used to continue combos, spike people off the stage when you're trying to recover, and can even kill from off the top of Battlefield/stages with low ceilings if you can hit your opponent after juggling with up-air. On certain characters, I've even been able to do up-B > n-air > up-B > na-ir (works better on Smashville/FD, since Battlefield's platforms usually interrupt this combo), which can become really frustrating for your opponent. That's about 13-15% per up-B > d-air string. Yeah the sweet-spot kills a little later than Launch (about 25-40% later), but Gdub doesn't really have that much of a problem racking up damage anyway.
It's really safe too, since it lets you act out of your jump much more quickly. You can go for the up-B, and even if you miss, you most likely won't be punished due to its invincibility. That's 10/16% easy damage. All around the best up-B IMO.

Side B
Chain Judge is incredible, and is hands down his best Side-B. While standard Judge can still be powerful given the right RNG, Chain Judge is just consistent. And in a game like Smash, sometimes consistency beats out sheer luck. It has much better average damage (9.67% with standard and 14% with Chain), and the multi-hit nature of it makes it a lot easier to land as well (whereas standard judge only hits on the initial start up AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong). It doesn't even lose its killing power, since a 9 still kills incredibly early. Most characters would love to have a move that can kill at 30-40% for most of the cast.
Extreme Judge is a joke, and I consider it to be one of the worst customs in the entire game. There is literally no reason to use it, unless you have absolutely no respect for your opponent and just want to troll him.

Down B
This one is quite the toss up, and each one can be used to suit your match up. Standard B would be his go-to for most, but the other two fit certain match-ups better. Not much else to say about this move, other than that more people need to utilize it more, as it can completely change the match-up against certain characters IMO.

 

[Infinite901]

(whereas standard judge only hits on the initial start up AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong)

Correct, though 5's do act a lot like Chain. (it has multiple electricity hits)

 

[Liwi808]

I see. Now I know.

 

[GimR]

his extreme judge also has faster startup and cooldown it seems, plus the 1 gives the opponent hitstun like a jab which can lead to mixups

 

[Liwi808]

Meh, then I might as well just use jab. I also won't be doing 5% damage to myself, and I can still kill with judgement 1/3.