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The thoughts in this video bring up a lot for discussion. Hopefully people will stay civil as the community sits down to tackle issues going forward in the entirety of our Smash community.
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Hoping for the community to stay civil after a video like this is rather impossible.SmashCapps said:Hopefully people will stay civil as the community sits down to tackle issues going forward in the entirety of our Smash community.
I'm not actually sold that Smash 4 is a better game than Brawl. Better paced definitely, less stupid stuff definitely, but with shallower interactions overall. What's better, a bitter wine with a good aftertaste? Or a mild wine with a mild aftertaste? This actually becomes a preference thing pretty quickly. I think Brawl's deeper than Smash 4, but you have to put up with a bunch of dumb stuff in the process.Brawl had a really healthy competitive run for quite a few years, and seeing as Smash 4 is overall a better game than Brawl, I can see Smash 4 lasting about as long, if not longer.
If by "deeper", you mean having more ATs and the like, then sure, I can buy that, but Smash 4 is still a bit young, and any ATs that exist have yet to be discovered. Of course, there's a risk Nintendo can simply patch out said ATs, making things harder for Smash 4's deep gameplay, so to that end, yeah, I can buy Brawl being deeper at the current moment.I'm not actually sold that Smash 4 is a better game than Brawl. Better paced definitely, less stupid stuff definitely, but with shallower interactions overall. What's better, a bitter wine with a good aftertaste? Or a mild wine with a mild aftertaste? This actually becomes a preference thing pretty quickly. I think Brawl's deeper than Smash 4, but you have to put up with a bunch of dumb stuff in the process.
That's because Smash 4's gameplay is very similar to Brawl's. If anything, it's basically Brawl, but with different ledge mechanics, combo possibilities, and no tripping. Obviously, Melee players who tried Brawl and went back to Melee aren't going to pick up Smash 4 when they know it's similar to Brawl, and one shouldn't blame them. Then again, I don't really speak for the Melee community, since this is just a mere guess.Another big difference is that a lot of Melee players tried for a while to pick up Brawl at the beginning and many continued playing it because Melee was effectively dead for two years. The crossover rate between Melee and Smash 4 is much, much lower than Melee and Brawl was because...Melee as a scene actually exists this time around. So I wouldn't judge it too hard on this history.
If I recall correctly, isn't the whole "one-inch punch" from Mii Brawler an OP move, and is the only OP custom move? If so, I can understand banning it. Otherwise, all other moves ought to be fair game, no?I'm really worried for the potential split customs will cause the scene. It's crazy that people are discussing banning individual moves.
The problem also comes from people calling others "elitest manchildren."Interesting video.
I do agree that we need unity in the Meta, but the problem does not come from the game itself, but rather, inconsistant elitest manchildren.
If we can learn anything from this, it's that we need to treat Smash 4 for what it is. Not Melee, not Brawl, but Smash 4.
Now go and practice with customs on.
Edit: Last thing, if Omni had any doubt whether this would hurt Smash 4, he should not have released it. Very bad move from someone I respect.
Tornado Kick is actually a lot more reasonable then Piston Punch in terms of actual risk vs reward. Tornado Kick is powerful but it absolutely sucks as a vertical recovery move, so the Brawler player has to focus on getting to the ledge from a horizontal position which makes his recovery very linear. Piston Punch plus Faint Jump gives the Brawler a good vertical and horizontal recovery. Piston Punch's power to kill off the top is a lot less comitable then Helicopter Kicks to kill off the side and OOS.The Tornado kick mii players do kills at 40%.... I think customs should be integrated into smash to increase its longevity/meta, but there needs to be bans... there is just no way around it.
I 100% agree with you, Praxis. And this never happens.I'm not actually sold that Smash 4 is a better game than Brawl. Better paced definitely, less stupid stuff definitely, but with shallower interactions overall. What's better, a bitter wine with a good aftertaste? Or a mild wine with a mild aftertaste? This actually becomes a preference thing pretty quickly. I think Brawl's deeper than Smash 4, but you have to put up with a bunch of dumb stuff in the process.
Another big difference is that a lot of Melee players tried for a while to pick up Brawl at the beginning and many continued playing it because Melee was effectively dead for two years. The crossover rate between Melee and Smash 4 is much, much lower than Melee and Brawl was because...Melee as a scene actually exists this time around. So I wouldn't judge it too hard on this history.
This isn't a bash-Smash-4 post, I spent years in the competitive Brawl scene. I just wouldn't assume one will be like the other.
I'm really worried for the potential split customs will cause the scene. It's crazy that people are discussing banning individual moves.
Easy, Dolphin emulatorsMelee players being Melee players yet again, I see.
When the last out-of-print disk breaks, and it will, then where will you be?
Whether you like me or not is entirely up to you. If giving my unpopular opinion on the state of the Smash 4 community makes you dislike me welll... you saw the video. You know what you can do, senpai.Omni just doesn't want to be liked, does he?
If by "deeper", you mean having more ATs and the like, then sure, I can buy that, but Smash 4 is still a bit young, and any ATs that exist have yet to be discovered. Of course, there's a risk Nintendo can simply patch out said ATs, making things harder for Smash 4's deep gameplay, so to that end, yeah, I can buy Brawl being deeper at the current moment.
That's because Smash 4's gameplay is very similar to Brawl's. If anything, it's basically Brawl, but with different ledge mechanics, combo possibilities, and no tripping. Obviously, Melee players who tried Brawl and went back to Melee aren't going to pick up Smash 4 when they know it's similar to Brawl, and one shouldn't blame them. Then again, I don't really speak for the Melee community, since this is just a mere guess.
People've talked about banning DK's custom up-B and Pika's custom skull bash as well and a number of notable players feel "not all customs should be allowed". However, it's a slippery slope once you start picking and choosing what should be legal and what shouldn't and it really needs to be all or nothing.If I recall correctly, isn't the whole "one-inch punch" from Mii Brawler an OP move, and is the only OP custom move? If so, I can understand banning it. Otherwise, all other moves ought to be fair game, no?
Excuse me?Melee players being Melee players yet again, I see.
When the last out-of-print disk breaks, and it will, then where will you be?
I agree the recovery is awful, but 40% on a move that can be spammed? I agree with you, just saying.Tornado Kick is actually a lot more reasonable then Piston Punch in terms of actual risk vs reward. Tornado Kick is powerful but it absolutely sucks as a vertical recovery move, so the Brawler player has to focus on getting to the ledge from a horizontal position which makes his recovery very linear. Piston Punch plus Faint Jump gives the Brawler a good vertical and horizontal recovery. Piston Punch's power to kill off the top is a lot less comitable then Helicopter Kicks to kill off the side and OOS.
I think I'm rambling on about something off topic so I'll stop here.![]()
The video wasn't even about Melee in the slightest and you obviously didn't watch it. You clearly have a persecution complex.Melee players being Melee players yet again, I see.
When the last out-of-print disk breaks, and it will, then where will you be?