Eisen
Smash Ace
Before I start, let me preface by saying I don't want to go back to his 3.02 status of having a plethora of positives/no negatives, or having ridiculous magnet game.
What I mean is that since 3.5, PMDT has "cropped" all of his moves to be very minimalistic and polarized depending on very minute spacing/timing differences. For example, fair was a good move--one that nobody would have argued was ever toxic in 3.02, yet, it received changes. Its main hitbox is smaller than Falcon's knee or Zelda's fair/bair, it has 3 hitboxes with utterly different functions and properties, and not to mention, it has a linger effect with which the move changes entirely yet again. Frankly, this move is nearly impossible to approach or defend efficiently with, especially against faster characters like Falcon or Fox. It needs a slightly bigger sweetspot. I don't care if the move received a little more cooldown in exchange. I feel helpless in neutral unless I run away and throw out PK freeze or magnet or nair... except, those moves are also a problem.
PK freeze has insane startup, yet is completely invalidated by a simple crouch cancel? Really? It only does 5%, and even if you connect with it, you have to assume your opponent will mess up defending it if you want to follow up. Waiting/reacting to their reaction is not an option--it's all based on reads/prediction, which I think is kinda dumb for a move that's meant for opening the opponent up. I understand it shouldn't automatically do work for the player, but I feel like I get zero reward for landing it most of the time -- the stars have to align and 50 million factors have to be perfectly accounted for/taken care of for substantial reward.
Nair is also just eaten by crouch cancel. Granted, this move is definitely better off than PK freeze, especially since you can DJC retreat/crossup and mix up with other aerials. Again, however, you have to have Marth-like spacing for every action in this equation. Also, Nair's hitboxes are like... really inconsistent/weird? I understand that the rear pair of hitboxes on the aerial/landing portion of the move send backwards, but honestly I find that that trait is really unnecessary. It's just there to make it more difficult to space the move properly and know for sure which direction the opponent is going. Just BARELY misspacing means your opponent flies the other direction, and if you think based on your spacing they should go forward but like a limb stuck out one frame before your nair's final hit and got absorbed by the rear hitboxes, you get an ENTIRELY different result in movement. Like, why? Just let the move do what it's supposed to do in one direction and please don't make it so I have to wait to determine which direction it decided to toss my opponent this time. Also, the final aerial hit makes no sense? It's one giant hitbox as far as I can tell, yet it sends backwards sometimes? If the final/launch aerial (yes, I'm making sure I'm not landing when the move finishes) hitbox is all one giant hitbox, why does it behave like this? The move is just unintuitive in every sense of the word, as are a lot of moves in Lucas' moveset. Nothing feels "solid, like every attack hits like a chain mace -- hit with the tip, you get a decent reward, but hit with the chain/inner part and it's like "wtf is this crap?" and it feels very... poorly designed. I don't necessarily think he's "bad" because with optimal play he's fine, it's just an unnecessary level of depth added, especially to nair. Not to mention SDI and shield-DI are things and when done right invalidate the moves too. A character should not be built around approach moves that function like Samus' fire fair, imo.
Magnet suffers similar problems. Why, god why, does this move send forward when you just ever so slightly misspace? I mean, the move already sometimes flat out misses the final "launch" hit because of SDI or just because the weaker hits pop the opponent far enough up that the final hit just freaking MISSES -- especially when intelligent DIs are implemented. So, with all those variables floating around, what exactly is the purpose of occasionally making such a CRUCIAL move to his moveset do exactly the opposite of what it's "supposed" to do? It's just poor design, imo.
Dair is also difficult to be consistent with, though thank god it's not near as bad as nair or fair, and at least when you land a dair, you know where the opponent is going, unless they left the ground like 1-5 frames before the final hit happens. However, I feel like in this case it's acceptable. It's not like there's some inner hitbox on Lucas' face that, if triggered, sends the opponent forward or something. Like, that's literally how his other moves feel. "oh, you slightly misspaced/mistimed? LOL, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVE NOW."
I don't mind technicality. I play Fox and Wolf and Samus just fine and they're arguably more technical than Lucas, however their moves are more "intuitive" and work how they're supposed to 99% of the time. I just mind inconsistency and added depth with "gimmicks" involved. Up tilt is possibly the worst offender of this. Like, the move wasn't even that prominent to begin with, and then we're just gonna add a hitbox but make it work completely differently? Please, just take away the extra hitboxes. I would honestly give anything just to keep the tipper hitboxes and remove all the nonsense ones -- magnet's back hitbox included. Even though there's less of a move there, at least in this case you'd know what you're getting when you land it.
I understand PMDT doesn't want this character to be butthole-easy, but with so many of his positives cut down on in 3.5, I don't think he deserved the added precision given to his attacks.
All in all, I'd say AT LEAST his aerials/normals need to be "bair-ified". By that, I mean use the design principles of bair and apply it to the others. Bair's inner hitbox doesn't make this jank 3% hit that sends nowhere -- it functions still as a kill move. The difference is a few %, a slightly different angle, and different effects on grounded/aerial opponents (spike/pop off). Ftilt is similarly done, with the differences between the outer/inner hitboxes being gradual and natural instead of polarized and janky.
Considering playing with the moveset in brawlbox. PM/reply to me if you're interested.
What I mean is that since 3.5, PMDT has "cropped" all of his moves to be very minimalistic and polarized depending on very minute spacing/timing differences. For example, fair was a good move--one that nobody would have argued was ever toxic in 3.02, yet, it received changes. Its main hitbox is smaller than Falcon's knee or Zelda's fair/bair, it has 3 hitboxes with utterly different functions and properties, and not to mention, it has a linger effect with which the move changes entirely yet again. Frankly, this move is nearly impossible to approach or defend efficiently with, especially against faster characters like Falcon or Fox. It needs a slightly bigger sweetspot. I don't care if the move received a little more cooldown in exchange. I feel helpless in neutral unless I run away and throw out PK freeze or magnet or nair... except, those moves are also a problem.
PK freeze has insane startup, yet is completely invalidated by a simple crouch cancel? Really? It only does 5%, and even if you connect with it, you have to assume your opponent will mess up defending it if you want to follow up. Waiting/reacting to their reaction is not an option--it's all based on reads/prediction, which I think is kinda dumb for a move that's meant for opening the opponent up. I understand it shouldn't automatically do work for the player, but I feel like I get zero reward for landing it most of the time -- the stars have to align and 50 million factors have to be perfectly accounted for/taken care of for substantial reward.
Nair is also just eaten by crouch cancel. Granted, this move is definitely better off than PK freeze, especially since you can DJC retreat/crossup and mix up with other aerials. Again, however, you have to have Marth-like spacing for every action in this equation. Also, Nair's hitboxes are like... really inconsistent/weird? I understand that the rear pair of hitboxes on the aerial/landing portion of the move send backwards, but honestly I find that that trait is really unnecessary. It's just there to make it more difficult to space the move properly and know for sure which direction the opponent is going. Just BARELY misspacing means your opponent flies the other direction, and if you think based on your spacing they should go forward but like a limb stuck out one frame before your nair's final hit and got absorbed by the rear hitboxes, you get an ENTIRELY different result in movement. Like, why? Just let the move do what it's supposed to do in one direction and please don't make it so I have to wait to determine which direction it decided to toss my opponent this time. Also, the final aerial hit makes no sense? It's one giant hitbox as far as I can tell, yet it sends backwards sometimes? If the final/launch aerial (yes, I'm making sure I'm not landing when the move finishes) hitbox is all one giant hitbox, why does it behave like this? The move is just unintuitive in every sense of the word, as are a lot of moves in Lucas' moveset. Nothing feels "solid, like every attack hits like a chain mace -- hit with the tip, you get a decent reward, but hit with the chain/inner part and it's like "wtf is this crap?" and it feels very... poorly designed. I don't necessarily think he's "bad" because with optimal play he's fine, it's just an unnecessary level of depth added, especially to nair. Not to mention SDI and shield-DI are things and when done right invalidate the moves too. A character should not be built around approach moves that function like Samus' fire fair, imo.
Magnet suffers similar problems. Why, god why, does this move send forward when you just ever so slightly misspace? I mean, the move already sometimes flat out misses the final "launch" hit because of SDI or just because the weaker hits pop the opponent far enough up that the final hit just freaking MISSES -- especially when intelligent DIs are implemented. So, with all those variables floating around, what exactly is the purpose of occasionally making such a CRUCIAL move to his moveset do exactly the opposite of what it's "supposed" to do? It's just poor design, imo.
Dair is also difficult to be consistent with, though thank god it's not near as bad as nair or fair, and at least when you land a dair, you know where the opponent is going, unless they left the ground like 1-5 frames before the final hit happens. However, I feel like in this case it's acceptable. It's not like there's some inner hitbox on Lucas' face that, if triggered, sends the opponent forward or something. Like, that's literally how his other moves feel. "oh, you slightly misspaced/mistimed? LOL, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVE NOW."
I don't mind technicality. I play Fox and Wolf and Samus just fine and they're arguably more technical than Lucas, however their moves are more "intuitive" and work how they're supposed to 99% of the time. I just mind inconsistency and added depth with "gimmicks" involved. Up tilt is possibly the worst offender of this. Like, the move wasn't even that prominent to begin with, and then we're just gonna add a hitbox but make it work completely differently? Please, just take away the extra hitboxes. I would honestly give anything just to keep the tipper hitboxes and remove all the nonsense ones -- magnet's back hitbox included. Even though there's less of a move there, at least in this case you'd know what you're getting when you land it.
I understand PMDT doesn't want this character to be butthole-easy, but with so many of his positives cut down on in 3.5, I don't think he deserved the added precision given to his attacks.
All in all, I'd say AT LEAST his aerials/normals need to be "bair-ified". By that, I mean use the design principles of bair and apply it to the others. Bair's inner hitbox doesn't make this jank 3% hit that sends nowhere -- it functions still as a kill move. The difference is a few %, a slightly different angle, and different effects on grounded/aerial opponents (spike/pop off). Ftilt is similarly done, with the differences between the outer/inner hitboxes being gradual and natural instead of polarized and janky.
Considering playing with the moveset in brawlbox. PM/reply to me if you're interested.
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