Play with Honor , Make Brawl Fun - With Some Thoughts from Mew2King

[z3r0C0oL]

I read M2Ks opening statement from his thread on Banning Ledge Camping/Planking. I agree with him completely.

Trouble is, that this is part of the game. Right? Arent we playing to win after all?

The following quotes come from M2Ks, opening statement.

" ...giving him a huge unfair advantage over his opponent, BAN IT. Even if you never saw this before, I am telling you from experience that it happens, and it's really ********. BAN IT."

"...but everyone was too honorable to do it, because that ruins the point of the game, which is to be a fun FIGHTING game. Do you want people to travel to go to tourneys just to see THAT?"

"..for those of you that aren't experienced in smash tourneys, this is a very cheap way to win, it's makes the game not fun to play... it doesn't even make it a game anymore, but rather an EXPLOITATION OF THE RULES."

"there is no positive effect of allowing this at tourneys, all it does is ruin the game completely. We need to draw a line or else this won't even be a GAME anmore"

"And as far as I'm concerned, I like FIGHTING my opponents. Unless you want the future to be really boring and gay, I suggest you listen to my advice. Doing this will literally RUIN smash, so if you have any honor at ALL you should never resort to this."

"Thanks for your time, and please do listen. I enjoy FIGHTING my opponents."


"The sooner you do this the better, and remember - it can't hurt to be playing it safe, this will only help."


The reason i agree with M2K is because everything he says makes sense. I enjoy FIGHTING my opponents as well...... Now im playing Devils Advocate here....but......

The entire time i was reading his statement, i kept thinking about how ALL OF THIS APPLIES TO Chaingrabbing, Infinites , and using broken characters. Yet, when ever i see a thread about someone suggestion that chaingrabbing be banned, or something like that, all of the responses are " stfu n00b, its part of the game, play to win, blah, blah, etc ,etc "

So, i think we all agree that planking can ruin the game and takes the fun out. I could be like the typical elitist Smasher and say something like " dont get grabbed ", although, it would be more like " dont get at a higher percentage than your opponent....ever "

While true on both accounts, its a lot easier said then done.


So what can be done about it? Nothing really. There are no "official rules" as there is no official governing body to smash tourneys. SBR is there to guide, but nothing else.

Unless its a standard Pro Circuit like MLG, setting the rules. People can pretty much set what ever rules they want for the tourney they are hosting.


We all like playing Smash. Thats why we are here. No one likes sitting there, waiting for an infinite or near infinite to finish or being stalled just because your opponent feels that he HAS to do ANYTHING to win.

People miss Melee because its a more offensive game. If you break Brawl down to its absolute core ; planking, camping, chaingrabbing, and infinites are all it takes to win. There is no need to be aggressive. And that is why people hate brawl.

Guess what? Brawl doesnt have to be that way. WE as players made it that type of game.

Look at Japanese matches. Here is an example i think we have all seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ



I recall my thoughts being " Holy ****!, Look how god**** awesome, fast, and fun that looks. " That is the way you play Brawl with Honor, competitiveness, and all while having fun. Brawl can be fast (not Melee fast) and fun to play. People complain " Brawl is soo boring to watch, its all camping and chaingrabbing" Yet, no one does anything about it.

Look at the other matches from Japanese players, everyone always comments on how they play it like Melee. Remember how much fun, fast, and competitive Melee was?

Can playing a more aggressive, non campy style change anything? Sure it can , take a look at the Japanese Tier lists. Bad characters are still bad characters ( sorry Falcon ) but taking out those horrible/unfair advantages from the equation makes the game on a different level in terms of competing and in actual fun of both playing and watching.

How about you? Will you drag the game down to a snails pace, full of camping, planking, and constant chaingrabbing? Or step up to the plate and do something about it.

"Thanks for your time, and please do listen. I enjoy FIGHTING my opponents."--





***hope you dont mind me using your thoughts M2K, i wanted to have a veterans thinking of honor... brought to a controversial subject that you probably wont agree with. I just want to bring a different way of thinking/smashing for the U.S. , and reading your thoughts on planking got me thinking***

 

[1048576]

If you want to win, you have to camp. If I camp and you don't, I'll win.

If you want the game to be fun, ban MK.

As a competitive game, brawl is a lost cause.

 

[JesiahTEG]

That video of the Japanese players suck. If they came over they would get owned by us. I like winning better than moving fast.

 

[z3r0C0oL]

Winning in brawl mostly = camping, spamming, or planking

Edit:^^^directed at the comment above^^^Id rather lose 1000 times to a Japanese player while having a blast then to win 1000 times against a US player using boring tactics that bring the game to a crawl such as camping and spamming.

 

[Kappie]

ha notice how those japan players calm down and actually carefully approach at the end of the match when they're both 100% in their last stock? They don't really think until it's too late. Your fun can be doin combos all over and get that percentage up (scrubs), but other people's fun is reading, outsmarting and outright beating other opponents with strategy and tactical ability.

@ ur above comment: that's really the definition of a scrub right there.

 

[Sosuke]

No ones stopping you from playing for fun. Or honer. Or however you want.
But you can't just get other people to do it because it would be funner.
If it were like that we'd all just play falcon dittos all day.

I like playing with no "gay" stuff in the game too, thats why I play with my friends.
But I'm not just gonna say to some random guy at a tournement, "Hey! Thats really lame! Stop!" or anything.

If you want Melee stuff, just play Melee man. Brawls campy, thats just how it is.

 

[-Jumpman-]

In the Netherlands we play without camping but still are very good. Just watch some vids.

 

[tocador]

honnor created by you, you think the honnof of playing is WHAT YOU DO, AND YOUR RULES. YOU INVENT RULES ON YOUR WOLRD MAKING ALL ACTS LIKE CG,STALLING,etc...

What i mean is, inventing rules to make your game a "honorable" game is what we mostly call a scrubish act. In this point, you cant even win of a noob in a tournament cause right now your mind is being fooled by your honorable play-style. Search for the "Whats a scrub text" on google and you'll see how wrong you are, or at least re-think about it.

Even tho there are *** strats you need to come arround it, cause that what people will do to win tourneys when they are worth money and prizes. But if you are trully a fighting hero with honor dutty you should just do like animes were "The good always wins the bads".

 

[tocador]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lijaDYADAA8&feature=related

and dont you say japanese players dont camp/chaing grab

dont you dare

the vid up is a classic CG/Camping japanese game

 

[ShenCS]

What is the Japanese tier list? I doubt that campy characters are lower tier simply due to the way Brawl works.

 

[Sosuke]

I don't think Ice climber chain grabs counter in this argument.



How can a player chain grab so well, but not know how to DI?
Well, they can. But come on. =/

 

[tocador]

yeah ic's can CG but cant di pikas dsmash, such a shame

 

[Face124]

" ...giving him a huge unfair advantage over his opponent, BAN IT. Even if you never saw this before, I am telling you from experience that it happens, and it's really ********. BAN IT."

Funny that coming from someone who mained MK.
D3's infinites are plain ridiculous, I just think they should be completely banned. CG'ing isn't too bad... I'm sort of impartial. and I agree, planking should be banned aswell. Whats better, a balanced game or an unbalanced game?

 

[z3r0C0oL]

honnor created by you, you think the honnof of playing is WHAT YOU DO, AND YOUR RULES. YOU INVENT RULES ON YOUR WOLRD MAKING ALL ACTS LIKE CG,STALLING,etc...

What i mean is, inventing rules to make your game a "honorable" game is what we mostly call a scrubish act. In this point, you cant even win of a noob in a tournament cause right now your mind is being fooled by your honorable play-style. Search for the "Whats a scrub text" on google and you'll see how wrong you are, or at least re-think about it.

Even tho there are *** strats you need to come arround it, cause that what people will do to win tourneys when they are worth money and prizes. But if you are trully a fighting hero with honor dutty you should just do like animes were "The good always wins the bads".

I made this thread fully knowing that i would need a flame suit with scrub repellant.

The reason i quoted M2k was because you didnt see anyone call him a scrub when he suggested that planking/ledgestalling be banned. Isnt that a scrub move as well? But becase he is m2k, everone is like " you are so right" "great thread", well lets take all the above quotes he mentioned, stuff i agree with, and apply it to tactics that are somewhat looked down upon.

The Honor argument wasn't necessarily mine to begin with, i just kinda took what m2k said, and applied it to other controversial tactics.

So, is M2k a scrub for suggestion that planking be banned? I think not. His points are valid.
I believe his reasons also apply to the other tactics i mentioned. Because I made the thread and changed the gay tactics to something else, now all of a sudden its a scrub thing to say/do? We play to win only sometimes? All the time? La

I was very surprised ( and glad ) that such a great competitive player would call upon smashers everywhere to have honor and not practice a certain tactic as it would ruin smash. Especially a Metaknight main, probably the BEST Metaknight there is. I believe his arguments could even apply to the use of Metaknight himself

I enjoy Falco's Double Reverse Boost Pivot Chaingrab as much as the next guy, looks badass, and requires some skill to pull off. But thats only like 40% damage.

D3 on the other hand.....

 

[mc4]

If you want to win, you have to camp. If I camp and you don't, I'll win.

If you want the game to be fun, ban MK.

As a competitive game, brawl is a lost cause.

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do directly to metaknight all tho the term "planking" is from a metaknight main to won alot of matches he probably would have lost otherwise with you may be familiar with plank vs sk92 but this is ledge stalling in general with any character which isn't banned. If you wanna argue about metaknight you should go to the ban metaknight threads.

That video of the Japanese players suck. If they came over they would get owned by us. I like winning better than moving fast.

NO they don't suck it you have to know your character very well to play that offensively not just anyone can play "fast" the way they were. If they did get owned it wouldn't be because of a lack of skill, it would be because camping, stalling etc exploits their skills nothing more. The funny thing is it takes less skill to camp, spam etc. It takes more skill to play "honorable" imo altho a campy style may easily beat it.

ha notice how those japan players calm down and actually carefully approach at the end of the match when they're both 100% in their last stock? They don't really think until it's too late. Your fun can be doin combos all over and get that percentage up (scrubs), but other people's fun is reading, outsmarting and outright beating other opponents with strategy and tactical ability.

@ ur above comment: that's really the definition of a scrub right there.

You can outsmart, and use strategy without stalling. Example- do you have to stall to play mind games, do you have to stall to shield grab, do you have to stall to punish, do you have to stall to use any of the dozens of at's true and character specific? I don't think so you can play "honorably" and outsmart and read imo.

No ones stopping you from playing for fun. Or honer. Or however you want.
But you can't just get other people to do it because it would be funner.
If it were like that we'd all just play falcon dittos all day.

I like playing with no "gay" stuff in the game too, thats why I play with my friends.
But I'm not just gonna say to some random guy at a tournement, "Hey! Thats really lame! Stop!" or anything.

If you want Melee stuff, just play Melee man. Brawls campy, thats just how it is.

While i'm on the honorable side this is probably the argument against it that makes the most sense. You can't really tell another person how to play. People call that Johning and apparently anything is johning even when you have to use the bathroom... but in anycase it is up to the player how they want to play and brawl is unfortunately more of a campy game which is actually why alot of people stick to melee. No one can really establish what "the right way" to play is because what makes anyone's opinion any better than the next? I think honor is a big part of japanese culture, so big that it even trickles down into how many of them play video games, it isn't the same here in the u.s. Believe it or not that argument of whether all should play honorable or not is an argument of ethics. What makes it tricky is that it's subjective, meaning there is no absolute right or wrong just individual view points. That is how it will always be. Honor vs whatever it takes
It's ultimately up to the player.

 

[Advance]

Bah, I don't really like camping. Because when you attempt camping, the other guy does too. And then everyone stands still, no one having any fun because you're too busy worrying about the other guy. Makes it boring.

I'd rather stick to my "n00bish" no camp battles any day. At least I feel like I'm doing something.

Hey, I did play a Japanese guy, we didn't camp, I won, and had a blast. I didn't find the same true about the guy I beat that stayed still and smashed every-time I got in range. (Lucky Pikachu is good for anti-camp lol)

 

[Ori_bro]

Bah, I don't really like camping. Because when you attempt camping, the other guy does too. And then everyone stands still, no one having any fun because you're too busy worrying about the other guy. Makes it boring.

wow i totally agree, i was on the allisbrawl ladder the other day (yup i did wifi, kill me) and playing people who campand there is lag is gay as $h!t, this falco only used laser and down b ran away and he counter picked a stage where he could run away like a panzy but i still won cause i was mk and i discovered my b button

 

[Remzi]

As fun as those Japanese players were to watch, they'd get 3 stocked by me or any decent American player. You can't ask people to suck, its just ridiculous.

 

[PKNintendo]

As fun as those Japanese players were to watch, they'd get 3 stocked by me or any decent American player. You can't ask people to suck, its just ridiculous.

Agreed.

On a side note, when are we going to have a worldwide smash match. JP vs America?

 

[Advance]

wow i totally agree, i was on the allisbrawl ladder the other day (yup i did wifi, kill me) and playing people who campand there is lag is gay as $h!t, this falco only used laser and down b ran away and he counter picked a stage where he could run away like a panzy but i still won cause i was mk and i discovered my b button

Oh I hate retreaters. I mean, of course if it's strategic, that's fine and dandy. But spamming a projectile and running is just lame. I could camp, but that'd be lame, and besides, people always tell me "Your pikachu is really good." Why would they say that? Because, I don't camp often (Maybe what, 10 seconds every once and a while? That's not really anything) and I don't let them camp. Work on anti-camping and you'll be sure to impress your opponents.

Plus I annoy them out of a camp with null special haha. Annoying projectiles ftw.

 

[K 2]

As for planking, I don't ledgestall/plank UNLESS MY OPPONENT WON'T LET ME BACK ON THE STAGE. Marth, MK and others with fast disjointed hitboxes are so good at prevent theie opponent from returning to the stage, their opponent doesn't have a choice but the ledgestall. Everytime I try to get up from the ledge via ledgehopped aerials, rolling, jumping, whatever, I get smashed back out, so I have no choice but to ledgestall. If your opponent runs to the ledge at the beginning of the match, just walk over to the other side of the stage, set your controller down, and LAUGH at your opponent.

"ALL OF THIS APPLIES TO Chaingrabbing, Infinites , and using broken characters"

If your going to ban Chaingrabbing, you will have to ban locks (dtilt locks, fox's utilt lock, shiek's ftilt lock, etc.) since locks usually get your opponent up to 40% ish and CG's usually get your opponent from 30-60%, depending on your character. In that case, you might as well remove combos since they usually tack on 30-40% too. CG's, Locks, and Combo's are all unavoidable once initiated. They can be DI'd out of, or they simple end at a certain percentage. Are you going to ban all of them?

Infinites. I think they should be allowed as long as they aren't super easy to perform. The only two examples I can think of is DDD and IC. DDD's infinite only works on 5 characters (most of them are rarely used at tourney's anyways), but it is super-easy to perform, which I don't like about it. The IC's on the other hand, have an incredibly difficult infinite CG that is really easy to screw up, even when mastered, so it should not be banned.

Omg...another MK complaint? I'll let someone else scream at you for this one. =)

 

[_Phloat_]

Hey, you know that M2K's skill does't reflect his abilities to debate?

 

[SuSa]

I disagree, this was an epic match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPaJvNJsqDY (Lain vs Anther)

Samus camping on the edge is broken though (especially at places like Delfino and Halberd during the 'floating' platforms. Samus can drop down, fire missiles, fire a charge shot, zair..... >.> so broken

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

That doesn't mean he's wrong. Seriously, no one goes to tournaments to watch people hang on a ledge, shot a projectile, run back to the ledge, repeat.

 

[MuttonBasher]

.

That doesn't mean he's wrong. Seriously, no one goes to tournaments to watch people hang on a ledge, shot a projectile, run back to the ledge, repeat.

Seriously, I hate when people use that strategy. Ledgecamping, is that what they call it? I feel like I'm playing cat and mouse the whole game. I usually go right at an opponent and try to avoid spamming with spammable characters, b/c I do unto them as I want them to do unto me lol. I actually played against one guy who used Marth----MARTH---and that's all he did. I just said **** it, i'm picking pikachu and spamming his neutral B. Why do people need to ledgecamp with Marth lol!

 

[Blackshadow]

...and there goes any credibility M2K had as a competitive smasher. He's changed. To now be arguing for honour in a fighting game? As much as I hate the word, that's the plight of a scrub. Not a competitive player.

Brawl is dead as a respectable fighting game if scrubs are leading the way on competitiveness.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

...and there goes any credibility M2K had as a competitive smasher. He's changed. To now be arguing for honour in a fighting game? As much as I hate the word, that's the plight of a scrub. Not a competitive player.

Brawl is dead as a respectable fighting game if scrubs are leading the way on competitiveness.

So I guess anyone who doesn't like camping/spamming/cheapass tactics is a scrub now? Even M2K?

 

[Mr. Rogu]

the thing is nobodys cool enough to play with honor. pretty much all smash players in USA only play to win, they dont care how they do it, whether its camping, spamming, chaingrabs, infinates, meta knight, overall no one cares about honor, thats pathetic.

 

[Blackshadow]

Yes. That's precisely my (and Sirlin's) point.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Anyway, fun fact about "defensive" brawl and ledge stalling compared with "offensive" melee. Melee had, with frame perfection, fully invincible ledge stalls with Fox, Falco, and Bowser (those being reasonably good stalls in real time even). Melee had faster action off the ledge in general. In melee there weren't moves like tethers and Aether that were hard limited by the game in how much they could ledgestall. I just think it's obvious that ledge stalling is more dangerous in melee than in brawl; it's not brawl's fault that people are using it more now. Let's not even get into the laundry list of characters who have very easy responses to ledgestalling and just make it completely impossible to keep up or the various stages that make it either harder or stop it completely on the long term.

To address the topic at hand more directly and to get to my main point, it's not even a horrible thing to argue that ledgestalling is broken. Just leave the silly baggage behind. No tactics are "gay"; that doesn't even mean anything and is pointlessly homophobic. "Cheap" is also a hollow and meaningless word; we should all know by now that anything that makes you win is a pretty good candidate for being called cheap in a fighting game. If you think it's "no fun", I can counter with a statement like "I find it very fun" that is equally impossible to argue against. Honor is the worst concept of all; if ledgestalling is broken, why not exploit it? If you win tournament after tournament with ledgestalling, it will be a lot more obvious to everyone that it is actually broken. If you argue not to ledgestall or chaingrab or whatever and then don't actually do those things in a tournament when money is on the line etc., I can only assume one of two things. Either you don't really believe it's as good as you say it is, or you sandbag in serious matches which makes it hard to have any sympathy for you when you lose.

I don't even understand where some of these "honor" concepts come from; I'd consider myself "honorable" in the sense that I'll treat my opponents with respect outside of the game and will, after the games, be happy to discuss what went wrong for you if you lost to me. I also do my best to show my opponents the respect in all games, be they random friendlies or tournament finals, of playing to win so their victory over me if they do get the best of it means as much as possible. I can't say I never engage in the fine art of johns, but I try to never say anything to cheapen my opponent's success (well, laggy WiFi aside; I sometimes get too upset over that for my own good). If I really tear someone apart, I don't gloat over it or make fun of how much they suck (even if they do); I limit all my criticisms of them to things that I think are important for them to hear in order to improve ("maybe you would do better with a character other than Ganon", etc.). To me, that is far more "honorable" than anything actually within the game.

 

[Zankoku]

lol, why do people point out Zentore and Nyosuke as major representatives of Japan's metagame when it's not even a very recent video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B630SpV-UK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlnPrVoRosY

 

[tocador]

were can i see for japanese tier list?

Edit: I found it nvm

 

[Banks]

You can't ban stuff that is so hard to enforce, and part of the game. The only thing to do is come to the conclusion that brawl sucks and stop playing it, or play it the way it is with ledge camping. Banning it is just grasping at straws trying to make a shallow party game into a tournament game, it's not like turning off items where there is a switch for it. Infinites shouldn't even be banned unless they are used for stalling purposes, and what would you do to stop ledgecamping? Have a judge watch every match and count to three whenever someone is on the ledge? so stupid... you can not ban camping, that is what brawl is based on.

 

[aeghrur]

I can't believe there's actually a debate about rather we should follow honor or not. >_>
Seriously, as much as I hate camping, there's nothing I can do about it. It's play to win. If you don't camp with someone like ROB, your stupid. If you don't play to win, your a scrub. If you don't want to camp, be someone like metaknight, he's the anti-camp. Or sonic for gods sake. Just stop going, WELL, HONOR THIS, HONOR THAT. That argument's entirely subjective and it sucks. >_>
Camping is a strategy, it's a gay one, but you can't ban it. Nor can you ban planking. Why? Because it's too much hassle. Seriously, when does simply regrabbing the edge become planking? 3 grabs? 5 grabs? When? And you do want to really count that during a tournament match? And then go whine about it? Or is it just banning edge play all together? It's stupid. >_>
So is trying to ban camping. When is it camping? 3 seconds? 10 seconds? what? You can't shoot lasers at them from a distance for 3 seconds now? How do we know when its more than the time? Is it camping if neither of you fight in close range for 5 seconds?

TL;DR
Seriously, banning camping/planking is stupid, hard to manage, and the argument for it sucks cuz it's all opinion. Yeah, by sirlin's views, M2K is totally a scrub based upon those posts.

 

[ndayday]

It became apparent to me that the community generally doesn't want to try to make Brawl fast or anything like that. It's an overall a bad idea to tell a whole community to change thier playstyle. That's telling people to STOP doing what's effective, and start doing what's fun, that's telling people to abandon the playstyle they have come up with and replace it with a more "fun" playstyle. It just won't work, people don't like change.

And Ankoku, those videos are nice. (Shiek footstool combo thing FTW)

 

[Tristan_win]

Play to win, if your character can't get around the chain grabs, the infinities , or the planking then use someone else that match and if you constantly have to use someone else then I'm afraid your characters isn't tournament capable.

 

[Kaizhi]

Did not get to read the whole thread bbbut..

One, I agree with the statement that brawl is what you make of it.
My friends and I personally (the better/decent ones) always have really fast paced matches.
They get so intense sometimes I'd swear you can lose weight playing brawl.
We don't really camp unless we really need to play defensively or mindgame it,
we always rush each other, and then it becomes a test of who has faster reflex's
to shield, dodge, or get into the right position for the hitbox cancel/hit. Bit like RPS I guess..
The way we play, brawl is even more intense than melee was,
going back to melee, the characters feel really heavy, like they have suction cups.
Sakurai said himself that he wanted brawlers to utilize aerial combos, huge difference and so we do.

Two, edge camping/planking, forgive me for not knowing, but is this guarding and hogging ?
Or when a player stays on the side spamming B until the opponent rushes them,
hugs the edge hoping they will come down and then spikes/toadstools ?
---Either way, I'd agree against and for it. I believe it is part of the game
and makes it intense since you have to always keep it in mind to counter the act somehow,
but if a person says lets have a match without it, I'd be all for it.
It makes the game relatively more challenging to not beable to kill a person until high %
no edge guarding or hogging, let the player get back on stage.
Also, just another way to play I guess.. if anyone is familiar with the term "sitting turtle vs flying butterfly".

Three, the video of the japanese players posted is broken evidence for the cause,
they use chaingrabs, they edge hogged and tried.
---Something I liked though, they didn't spam their lasers every second of the match.
Maybe that was your argument? In which case sorry I misunderstood.

Four, I honestly think they are up to par/equal/maybe a bit better in skill with the US players.
I really saw no difference in play except the fact that they use their tilts more instead of smashes.
(And the lack of laser spamming of course)
It seems like the most common combos I've seen from the US for anything would be
if there is ever a connection and an opening, first instinct is smash. [Hulk?]
Experienced players can argue against that and say it is not true,
sure I'll take your word for it. Let this be a lesson for the less experienced then.
Utilize all of your moves to the fullest, there is a reason why damage decreases per smash.

Five.. if I can still remember the thought process..
They spammed as well, mid jump and mid jump and.. mid jump.
OverA-OverA-OverA until hit. DownB-OverA-DownB-OverA combo over and over.
Definitely not the same as spamming a projectile but,
nontheless still using a move over and over again.

Six.. I'd say, call it out as a rule before a match for now,
since there will never be a complete agreement on this matter.
Eventually there will be a growing population that'll stand by it too.
A bit like how though there are claims that SBR doesn't decide exactly how everyone should play,
the truth of the matter is, they do through influence.
The reason why so many matches look the same is because 80%+ of the time,
those players most likely practiced hardcore watching videos posted online.

Seven~ If you ever cannot find a match on those terms, PM me, we'll play in that style =p,
just make sure you call it out so I know.

 

[Tenki]

@first page:
You guys should try Sonic lol.

Play looking aggro while really playing campy.

It's fun.

also, for once:
tl;dr

 

[illinialex24]

Keep planking please...

 

[Ills]

You have to learn that there are going to be "honorless" players no matter what.

Considering the circumstances, in a tournament, I'd take $5000 prize over honor.