Recovering against a shine-spike-happy Fox

[balladechina212]

One of the Foxes that I play gimps for a living. The main way that I get sent off the edge is by a shine, which drops me down a little below the stage. At this point, he ALWAYS drops down to attempt a shine spike or waits for me to double jump and then shine spike. I've tried various approaches to recovering against this tactic, but none of them have been very effective. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed that I get shine spiked once per match, which makes winning very difficult.

If I'm "lucky" he'll merely edgehog my Sheik and I'll have to land on the stage (or time my vanish so that it grabs the ledge after he finishes rolling onto the stage) and he'll repeat the process until I'm dead.

The way I hear about the most to counter shine spiking Foxes is to double jump into an aerial. In my case, this has probably been the least effective method because I will usually get shine spiked out of my double jump before the aerial comes out, guaranteeing my death.

Also, about a third of the shine spikes are actually during my Sheik's up-B (the "jumping" part that is not invincible). What can I do about that? Or is that Fox just good at timing the shine?

Please give me some advice.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Sheik should almost never get shine spiked. fair to the face. Otherwise just get out of the way. I mean it's not hard. I don't really know any specific advice to give you other than don't get shine spiked. Get some patience? Wait below the edge? Double jump using uair? Too many things to do.

 

[balladechina212]

fair to the face

I mentioned that, this guy shine spikes me too quickly (plus the shine has pretty broken range). I happen to jump with the Y button, and I happen to take longer than one frame to move from the Y button to the A button or the c-stick. This Fox has so perfected his "art" that he'll catch me during that time more often than not. I guess I could jump using the analog stick, but when I'm in a vulnerable position like this, I want to be able to DI my jump.

Get some patience? Wait below the edge? Double jump using uair?

The longer I wait, the lower I am. The lower I am, the more vulnerable I am to not only shine spiking, but also to edgehogging.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

So basically you're initially shined and are below the stage, and magically as soon as you use your second jump you're instantly shined again?

To be blunt, that's pretty impossible, and I don't care how good or technical this guy is with his shines; I've played tons of good to great Foxes.

The initial shine shouldn't drop you 100% below him anyway. DI away, you'll be under and away from the edge, he'll have to come down at an angle to shine you again, you anticipate, fair, he gets wall spiked, gg.

Or replace fair with uair or nair... or dodge... If these options aren't working you're just not doing it right

 

[balladechina212]

DI away too much, and I'll get edgehogged.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

You've already got this mind set about this, so it's going to be hard to convince you otherwise. A few options though.

1. Jump AWAY from the stage and fair. This will almost always mess with his spacing for his shine, put you out of range, and club him in the face.

2. Use your analog stick for the jump and Uair. Really though, you need to learn when to use the analog stick for jumps; it's good to be well versed in using a jump button all the time, but it will slow down your aerials a few framed in the long run.

3. Smash DI upwards, hey, you never know right?

4. Rising Nair. Good priority, hit box, and damage. I use this against a lot of people when I know they go for aerial edge guards. It helps keep them on the stage, and gives me more safe time to make it to the edge.

 

[Shack]

fair when he jump/falls at u, ull stage spike him almost everytime

 

[Tope]

You could always put out a video.

 

[Luma]

i was about to say the same as tope, getting anti egdeguard is actually pretty easy imo

 

[balladechina212]

fair when he jump/falls at u, ull stage spike him almost everytime

He edgetechs pretty well.

 

[CmRoddy]

If you DI the shine down, than you grab the edge instead of falling off. Best advice can give you. Simply don't get shined off the stage. If he is Waveshining, than when you get close to the edge, DI down, and let go as soon as you reach the edge, and you grab onto the edge.

 

[Salaad]

Wouldn't it be better if you just Upb'd if you weren't too much under the stage? Or even wall jump?

 

[Sinz]

Sweet spot it and just plain becareful. And just counterpick him on Kongo Jungle it is often one throw you win.

 

[Plairnkk]

i dont get why people say this kongo jungle ****, fox has all the options IN THE WORLD to recover on congo jungle. when sheik players counterpick me at kongo jungle i just go fox.

 

[h1roshi]

Sheik should almost never get shine spiked.

that is a ******** statement. i too understand what your going through. i play one of the most technical foxes in florida pretty often. hes my teammate. and once im off the stage its almost impossible to get back. i have tried every approach in the game, and he knows how to counter all of them. he can shine me out of my aerials if i try to aerial him while recovering. if i do hit him, he always techs the stage and comes back. i can try to go under and vanish straight up, so when he gets onto the stage the edge is open for me. but he knows to just tilt toward the stage and downsmash me as i come down. i try to do a rising nair for a longer hitbox, bot again he either somehow shines me out of that, or when i hit him, he just techs it and i get screwed. a lot of time and he'll also shine me when im in the middle of my jumps or right as i go to do my vanish, in the beginning animation of that move, he'll shine me. you really just have to hope that he messes up. or that he is too far from the edge when you vanish so that you will grab the edge. your pretty screwed when your off the edge....peace

-hiroshi

 

[Plairnkk]

honestly, fox players for the most part are WAY too paranoid about trying to shinepsike sheik.

it's not that hard to get a shine in. shine sheik during her double jump or the first half of her up+b, shes not invulnerable the whole time. Basically you have to just switch up using ur jump and not using ur jump, and change where you up+b.

It's easy to switch up your options, then they have to guess what you're going to do to shine you, but if they guess right and are effecient, they'll get the shine.

For the most part, though, you have so many options that it's more effective for the fox to just hit you off the stage, wait for you to land, then continue doing that til they can just usmash you

 

[NeighborhoodP]

that is a ******** statement. i too understand what your going through. i play one of the most technical foxes in florida pretty often. hes my teammate. and once im off the stage its almost impossible to get back. i have tried every approach in the game, and he knows how to counter all of them. he can shine me out of my aerials if i try to aerial him while recovering. if i do hit him, he always techs the stage and comes back. i can try to go under and vanish straight up, so when he gets onto the stage the edge is open for me. but he knows to just tilt toward the stage and downsmash me as i come down. i try to do a rising nair for a longer hitbox, bot again he either somehow shines me out of that, or when i hit him, he just techs it and i get screwed. a lot of time and he'll also shine me when im in the middle of my jumps or right as i go to do my vanish, in the beginning animation of that move, he'll shine me. you really just have to hope that he messes up. or that he is too far from the edge when you vanish so that you will grab the edge. your pretty screwed when your off the edge....peace

-hiroshi

Not really. I don't know about Florida's Foxes (though some guy from Florida was road tripping through the country and I played him and his Fox was pretty technical and I didn't get shine spiked), but I've played most of So Cal's best Foxes and getting shine spiked is rare and basically only happens in friendlies if I'm getting lazy. It's usually pretty obvious when Fox is trying to go for it and it's not especially hard to punish them for it (through either an easy way back on the stage -- dodge, early up b -- or hitting them and getting back on the stage).

Usually the good Foxes don't even bother and just out-wait me -- camp the ledge, make me up b on the stage, -- only using the shine as an option if I try something stupid / odd to bypass their ledge hogging -- and **** me via usmash / bair.

 

[h1roshi]

ok, after reading your post neighborhood, i will say he mostly does what you said. he waits for me and forces me to up+b and then gets an upsmash or nails me back out off the stage. but like plairnkk said, when you have a fox thats not paranoid about going for the shinespike, they can catch a lot of times...peace

-hiroshi