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#SaveSmash, The Smash Community and Nintendo

SaveSmash.jpg


Shortly after The Big House’s cancellation, the hashtag #FreeMelee caught on. A few days later, an anonymous twitlonger was published and spawned massive outrage. As a result, #SaveSmash joined #FreeMelee as a popular hashtag. The aforementioned twitlonger can be viewed below:


Why did this twitlonger spark such emotion? It alleges that Nintendo has been harming the Smash community. The anonymous poster claims that Nintendo prevented numerous esports organizations and companies from letting Smash grow. Notably Twitch was supposedly in talks with Nintendo. This would have started in 2015 with the intent being the creation of a Smash circuit featuring Melee and Smash Wii U. If everything claimed is true, Twitch would’ve fronted all costs for the budget. This would result in Twitch spending millions every year, and Nintendo would own the branding rights. These talks would give Twitch hope that they were close, but Nintendo would leave months without an answer and thus delay progress.

Supposedly, things changed in 2018. The post claims Nintendo and Twitch made a contractual agreement at that time. However, Nintendo stopped responding to Twitch, and later announced Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. It’s alleged that Nintendo cancelled their agreement with Twitch after the announcement. Reputedly, Nintendo claimed to want to test the waters for Ultimate and see how the community reacts to the game before there’d be a chance of resuming talks in a year. As of November 23rd, 2020, Nintendo has allegedly not resumed the talks.

As aforementioned, Twitch is not the only entity outlined in these alleged claims. The likes of Eleague, HTC, ESL, MLG, and even Red Bull have all, allegedly, tried to front costs for Nintendo to create events but Nintendo made no attempt on their part. If the allegations are factual, this means Nintendo denied permission to all of these.

Many Smash fans are, understandably, distraught about this seeming turn of events. For a lot of competitors the scene getting financial support and major prize pools is a dream. If all these claims hold merit, that means that dream was killed by Nintendo. For many, it looks like Nintendo uses the community’s events as a marketing tool but also seeks to limit growth and keep Smash at a grassroots-level.

The twitlonger also claims that events hosting Project M were never given a cease and desist order. It says Nintendo talked to streamers and tournament organizers. Nintendo is said to have implied that supporting Project M was the main reason they didn’t financially support the Smash scenes. The writer claims that streamers and tournament organizers told them this and believed that dropping Project M would help an official Smash circuit be created. So, if these claims are true, it would seem that Project M died for no benefit at all to the community. Given comments from community figures like Samuel “Dabuz” Buzby, Adam “Armada” Lindgren and Arian “Blur” Fathieh, these claims have been given some credibility.


Needless to say, many in the Smash community are angry. That anger didn’t just translate into rants though. It inspired others to come out and talk about things Nintendo did that they heard, experienced or claimed to know. Figures such as Clash Tournaments founder Christina “Chia” Korsak, the now defunct Project NX’s lead developer Felipe “Nyx” Monteiro, Vortex CEO Chris “CAKOvalik” Kovalik all voiced their alleged experiences with Nintendo. CAKOvalik’s statement was also corroborated to us by a former Wavedash Games employee who wishes to stay anonymous.


Former Editor-in-Chief of Smashboards, Linnea “LiteralGrill” Capps, made a Twitter thread alleging that she knew more about Project M’s death. She brings up audio evidence in the form of an unreleased Smashboards interview with Alex Strife, and while we at Smashboards will not share it as it contains sensitive information, we can confirm it does in fact exist. She claimed that Twitch pressured Apex to drop Project M, not Nintendo and that they paid streamers to take Project M off their channels. She also allegedly heard and saw other companies attempting to set up events and take similar actions against Project M in the process. She assumes that Nintendo talked these companies and streamers into dropping the game before not holding up their end of the deal.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The outcry also extended beyond the immediate Smash community. A notable example of this is that members of the Splatoon and ARMS communities such as Angel “AngleBagel” Luna and Danny “HanukkahJamboree” Cohen expressed solidarity. AngleBagel stated that Nintendo still hadn’t given him his 1st place prize from the last time his team won, which would've been $25. HannukahJamboree made a twitlonger detailing and alleging things Nintendo had done to the ARMS community. Perhaps most notable among the allegations is that he allegedly heard an anonymous top ARMS player get invited to dinner with a Nintendo representative. This top player claims they were told that Nintendo is scared the competitive scene would drive off casual players and harm sales. He then goes on to say
The initial idea appears to have been: market the game as a competitive fighter that was highly accessible, run a few events, and then all competitive support would be dropped in favor of party style gameplay modes rolled out once every month or so. Leaving the competitive community to form itself while still attempting to profit off their success felt disheartening, and many recognized it as something that was done to Sm4sh, as well.
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Nintendo’s alleged actions have garnered a lot of attention. Currently, a large part of the gaming community shares a certain sentiment; Nintendo isn’t trustworthy. What effects this sentiment will hold on the future are yet to be seen. While Nintendo made a statement earlier to Polygon addressing their cancellation of The Big House, they still have not commented on #SaveSmash or the anonymous twitlonger.

Author's Note: I personally believe that the vast majority of these allegations are true and I think it's ridiculous that Nintendo acts in such a way. Like, yeah, I get it, they want full control over how the public sees their intellectual properties. Still doesn't mean they need to give people false hope and then rip it away. A lot of these actions appear rather malevolent to me, like, really, offering prizes as small as $25 and then caring so little that they apparently forgot to even pay that amount? That's just cruel. What do you think though? Please let us know in the comments below!

Credits:
Editing: @Scribe @Thirdkoopa Venus of the Desert Bloom Venus of the Desert Bloom
Graphics: Zerp Zerp
Social Media: Zerp Zerp
 
Mitchell "Zerp" Brenkus
Zerp
Mitchell "Zerp" Brenkus
Content Manager
Zerp is a devout Jigglypuff loyalist and solo-main who has played Super Smash Bros. since before Brawl was a thing. His passion for the franchise has always been strong yet his passion for the competitive scene itself wasn't as strong, it was always just a passing interest. That changed though when he finally went to a tournament, and he has been hooked ever since.

Comments

Phoenix502
fogbadge said:
nintendo cant hurt the smash community. the community is to busy hurting itself
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it's not so much the community is too busy hurting itself, but unwittingly digging the hole deeper...

I mean, I'd argue part of the problem is the immaturity factor. Nintendo's target playerbase has often been casual gamers and family groups, a base that typically would either not be aware of anything fishy going on, or had so much fun playing their games with friends that they couldn't see them doing wrong. Most of us who tended to realize the sketchy stuff are old enough to at least notice a bigger picture. several series feel substantially dumbed down because advancements in game design allow even a non-gamer to pick up and play something, anyone with even a couple of years playing games and "git[ting] gud" would start noticing that some games hurt the overall design trying to bring in new people.

but as of many cases, a lot of Smash players weren't always socially responsible. you could easily suggest some Smash groups, particularly the well-known ones, kinda felt like being with the coolest kids on the block... gave some people a bit of an inflated ego and they thought they could get away with a lot. it's kind of why I feel like the Melee players in particular aren't nearly as hungry for the mainstream spotlight as, say Smash 4 or Ultimate. they had their moment with MLG in the day, and then it got snatched away from them, EVO2013 sort of served as a reminder of it, but they fought back and won out (it also helped that the scandal was published on just about every gaming publication INSTANTLY).

but considering what Mango did back in the day (and it is a hilariously ironic MIRACLE he wasn't among the accused in the summer scandal... unless I missed something), there's some players who are likely to make mistakes that kinda make the community easy to smear.
 
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The_Bookworm
Honestly, I am surprised that people are acting like Nintendo opposing to competitive Smash is fresh news.

We have known for a long time they weren't supportive of the Smash scene. Their reluctance on letting Melee be ran in big events back in the late 2000s, early 2010s was already proof of that.

However, when they cancel a single event by virtue of us using non-official emulator in a Nintendo-sponsored event, THAT is when people started bringing up their reluctance on supporting competitive Smash?

If the claims given by the Twitlonger is true, then why did it take this long for the community to speak about it?

I am also shocked that people are surprised and furious that Nintendo doesn't support modded Smash games (Project M) that straight up changes the game's code. Are they expecting Nintendo to be proud of them illegally hacking the game?
Bringing non-official emulators to Nintendo-sponsored events is one thing. Bringing hacked Smash games to Nintendo-sponsored events is another.

Additionally, the Twitlonger's claims by PM's closure seems strange to me:
If PM hosted events wasn't given a cease-and-desist order, then why did PM's development close?
If TOs and streamers were baited into dropping PM, then why is PM still being ran in events and Twitch streams to this day?

Regardless on how PM "died", PM is still being ran in many different tournaments/streams, like how Slippi is currently having many tournaments/streams being ran right now without issue as we speak. I don't really see things changing much for the Smash scene from here on out, regardless on what others are saying.


Even so:
We are now going to endlessly complain on Twitter that Nintendo is hurting the Smash community and what-not, which is going to do change absolutely nothing.

It also doesn't help that the Smash community itself hasn't always given Nintendo a good reason to support them. Heck, half a year ago, we had a handful of sexual misconduct allegations/revelations that went haywire across the Smash scene, which understandably painted the entire Smash community in a very negative light by many people. Many individuals within the Smash community that are not involved in these allegations left the competitive scene after the event, and I personally don't blame them.

On a brighter note, Nintendo has now been supporting the competitive Smash scene financially for the past several years now. We were going to have an entire global circuit revolving around Melee and Ultimate this year (sponsored by Nintendo) if it weren't for the pandemic.

While Nintendo's actions, regardless if the claims given by the Twitlonger is true or not, has been very questionable when it comes to the competitive scene, we have very much thrived regardless of this, and none of that is going to change.

Hopefully we are going to enter 2021 without the Smash community self-destructing on themselves every few months.


On a more humorous side note:
I like how the NA Smash community have been in a constant state of chaos and turmoil this entire year, while the Japan Smash scene has been chilling in the background away from any of the chaos and controversy. They have even recently re-opened local events, while is something the NA Smash scene isn't going to experience for a very long time.
 
fogbadge
Phoenix502 said:
it's not so much the community is too busy hurting itself, but unwittingly digging the hole deeper...

I mean, I'd argue part of the problem is the immaturity factor. Nintendo's target playerbase has often been casual gamers and family groups, a base that typically would either not be aware of anything fishy going on, or had so much fun playing their games with friends that they couldn't see them doing wrong. Most of us who tended to realize the sketchy stuff are old enough to at least notice a bigger picture. several series feel substantially dumbed down because advancements in game design allow even a non-gamer to pick up and play something, anyone with even a couple of years playing games and "git[ting] gud" would start noticing that some games hurt the overall design trying to bring in new people.

but as of many cases, a lot of Smash players weren't always socially responsible. you could easily suggest some Smash groups, particularly the well-known ones, kinda felt like being with the coolest kids on the block... gave some people a bit of an inflated ego and they thought they could get away with a lot. it's kind of why I feel like the Melee players in particular aren't nearly as hungry for the mainstream spotlight as, say Smash 4 or Ultimate. they had their moment with MLG in the day, and then it got snatched away from them, EVO2013 sort of served as a reminder of it, but they fought back and won out (it also helped that the scandal was published on just about every gaming publication INSTANTLY).

but considering what Mango did back in the day (and it is a hilariously ironic MIRACLE he wasn't among the accused in the summer scandal... unless I missed something), there's some players who are likely to make mistakes that kinda make the community easy to smear.
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that isnt what i meant at all
 
Mario & Sonic Guy
Frankly, if people are angry that Nintendo is not letting them run and stream Smash tournaments with illegal tools, that's their problem. The fact remains that if you're going to run a gaming tourney that supports piracy of any kind, then you're pretty much guaranteed to get hit with a cease and desist order.
 
A
I am tired of this seeming entitlement that Nintendo should dedicate their resources so that they can make money playing the game. And this backlash after one tournament was shut down that Nintendo had their name on after the TO refused to listen to their request.

Also, how many of these claims are just hearsay? Like, take our word for it, the audio clip exists. We aren't going to let you hear any of it, but it exists. Trust us.

Ridley64 said:
If they were so worried about Project M, why not make something better?
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One might argue they did. Even if you don't like it.
 
DrCoeloCephalo
Arthur97 said:
One might argue they did. Even if you don't like it.
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They arguably really DIDN'T and that's WHY we don't like it.

For one, we certainly don't like dealing with awful input buffer but one game has a built in option to fix that and the other doesn't.

One has a Subspace Emissary we love so dearly and the other has a shallow playmat abominable fusion of Customs (which many hated) plus Events.

One is known for a wide variety of playstyles and the other is known for just being faster paced camping that we hated from Brawl and 4.

Guess which one is which.
 
SnakeFighter64
Honestly... making a game competitive ruins the fun of it. Nintendo is entitled to brand the games the way they want, and if the competitive scene gets too big, it could start scaring away casuals. Like, lots of fighting games scare away your average player because of just that reason.
 
Venus of the Desert Bloom
Slippi and the Big House was a safe and appropriate way for players and fans of competitive Melee to enjoy the game. Many companies including ArcSys and Capcom, have allowed similar fan-created features to be used in official tournaments. They accept and respect the level of commitment made by thier fans to improve an older product which, in this case, was to make Melee playable online. This should of been commended by Nintendo and given approval to help bring together players during this trying times. They haven’t even explained their reasoning for their actions within an official capacity.

But, as per usual, Nintendo issues a C&D and then radio silence. This is sort of behavior extremely typical of Nintendo and theit affiliated studios. They want players to support and buy their games but bring down the foot whenever players improve the product or make a fan-product, free of charge, for the community to enjoy.

Nintendo wants Smash as a grassroots leveland I fully agree with the logic and evidence put forth in the Twitlonger. Nintendo will never fully support competitive Smash in any capacity and TO’s and event planners needs to look to other supporters to help pitch in when Nintendo does not. I think this was a valuable lesson that Nintendo doesn’t want competitive Smash to grow, doesn’t want players playing old Smash games, and has no interest or stake in the future of competitive Smash.

When the next shiny Smash game comes out after Ultimate, they will want players to move to that and for tournaments to focus on that. They will sweep Ultimate and obviously melee under the ground. They buried Smash 4 for obvious reasons and Brawl is...well...Brawl. Melee is a thorn in their side that they would be more than happy to yank out and never let it see the light of day if they could.

Basically, Nintendo has scummy behavior and do not care about Smash players and their community in the slightest. We are just data points and money signs to them.

Here’s a good visual on how much Nintendo values competitive players. At EVO Japan, any titles had monetary prizes with SF having around 18,000 for first. This is all helped by the studios that developed the games. What did Nintendo do? They gave first place a game controller. That’s it. Oh and it was given by Sakurai and the guy dropped it accidentally.
 
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KingBooGengar57
Mega Man x Street Fighter:
A fangame that was being developed without Capcom's knowledge. Capcom found out about the game, but they didn't throw a hissy fit like Nintendo and take it down. Capcom accepted the fact that they couldn't make money off the game but reached out to the devs of that to secure a publishing deal with them.
 
A
Can anyone still answer me as to why Nintendo should support the scene? Even without the disaster that is the Smash competitive community, why should they be obligated to shill out money for uncertain return? They don't need the scene's approval or helps moving copies. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make them obligated to do the same. As Smash has proven, there's plenty of baggage involved.

You are not entitled to a Nintendo sponsored league! So stop throwing a fit that they won't play ball. Especially when the Big House wouldn't play ball either.
 
CaptainAnime
So many dumb idiots in this chat. Holy ****
The_Bookworm said:
Honestly, I am surprised that people are acting like Nintendo opposing to competitive Smash is fresh news.

We have known for a long time they weren't supportive of the Smash scene. Their reluctance on letting Melee be ran in big events back in the late 2000s, early 2010s was already proof of that.

However, when they cancel a single event by virtue of us using non-official emulator in a Nintendo-sponsored event, THAT is when people started bringing up their reluctance on supporting competitive Smash?
Click to expand...
The outcry started because we are in a pandemic and they took Melee's only solution to be played in tournaments from them. That's why #FreeMelee started.

The_Bookworm said:
I am also shocked that people are surprised and furious that Nintendo doesn't support modded Smash games (Project M) that straight up changes the game's code. Are they expecting Nintendo to be proud of them illegally hacking the game?
Bringing non-official emulators to Nintendo-sponsored events is one thing. Bringing hacked Smash games to Nintendo-sponsored events is another.

Additionally, the Twitlonger's claims by PM's closure seems strange to me:
If PM hosted events wasn't given a cease-and-desist order, then why did PM's development close?
If TOs and streamers were baited into dropping PM, then why is PM still being ran in events and Twitch streams to this day?
Click to expand...
It isn't illegal to modify codes of a game you own. Project M modified codes from Brawl, from a disc they bought and therefore own. Mods are completely harmless.

PM's development closed because if it wasn't going to be mainstream like the devs wanted, then what's the point? Since Nintendo was going to be sponsoring the tournaments, they couldn't have them at those events and most of them were very prestigious events (Genesis, The Big House, Apex, etc).

PM (now P+) is ran by Twitch streamers, but with the lack of Twitch support, meaning they can't get monetization for it at all.
The_Bookworm said:
We are now going to endlessly complain on Twitter that Nintendo is hurting the Smash community and what-not, which is going to do change absolutely nothing.

It also doesn't help that the Smash community itself hasn't always given Nintendo a good reason to support them. Heck, half a year ago, we had a handful of sexual misconduct allegations/revelations that went haywire across the Smash scene, which understandably painted the entire Smash community in a very negative light by many people. Many individuals within the Smash community that are not involved in these allegations left the competitive scene after the event, and I personally don't blame them.

On a brighter note, Nintendo has now been supporting the competitive Smash scene financially for the past several years now. We were going to have an entire global circuit revolving around Melee and Ultimate this year (sponsored by Nintendo) if it weren't for the pandemic.

While Nintendo's actions, regardless if the claims given by the Twitlonger is true or not, has been very questionable when it comes to the competitive scene, we have very much thrived regardless of this, and none of that is going to change.

Hopefully we are going to enter 2021 without the Smash community self-destructing on themselves every few months.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting we shouldn't make noise and bring awareness to what is happening? It worked with EVO 2013. Are that dumb?

The scandals did not influence Nintendo's decision at all. Please educate yourself

The point is that we could be thriving much better if either Nintendo actually supported the scene or simply backed off
Mario & Sonic Guy said:
Frankly, if people are angry that Nintendo is not letting them run and stream Smash tournaments with illegal tools, that's their problem. The fact remains that if you're going to run a gaming tourney that supports piracy of any kind, then you're pretty much guaranteed to get hit with a cease and desist order.
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Please educate yourself. None of it was illegal
Professor Pumpkaboo said:
This #SaveSmash is the saddest and most emberessing thing I have ever seen
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Who asked?
SnakeFighter64 said:
Honestly... making a game competitive ruins the fun of it. Nintendo is entitled to brand the games the way they want, and if the competitive scene gets too big, it could start scaring away casuals. Like, lots of fighting games scare away your average player because of just that reason.
Click to expand...
Quit being an elitist. Smash wouldn't be as big as it is now if it wasn't for the competition. Sakurai would've quit a long time ago and so would any dev if there were no passionate players playing their games. YOU just don't let competition and that's fine, but fun is subjective and you imposing your idea of it is not helping your case at all. Please educate yourself
Arthur97 said:
Can anyone still answer me as to why Nintendo should support the scene? Even without the disaster that is the Smash competitive community, why should they be obligated to shill out money for uncertain return? They don't need the scene's approval or helps moving copies. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make them obligated to do the same. As Smash has proven, there's plenty of baggage involved.

You are not entitled to a Nintendo sponsored league! So stop throwing a fit that they won't play ball. Especially when the Big House wouldn't play ball either.
Click to expand...
No one wanted Nintendo to support the Smash scene. They thought it would be nice but they couldn't handle it themselves.



Honestly guys, you really need to actually learn **** before type ****. So many people in this thread have their own elitist and misinformed takes on this whole situation. Just say you are bootlicking the corporation and leave
 
Venus of the Desert Bloom
Arthur97 said:
Can anyone still answer me as to why Nintendo should support the scene? Even without the disaster that is the Smash competitive community, why should they be obligated to shill out money for uncertain return? They don't need the scene's approval or helps moving copies. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make them obligated to do the same. As Smash has proven, there's plenty of baggage involved.

You are not entitled to a Nintendo sponsored league! So stop throwing a fit that they won't play ball. Especially when the Big House wouldn't play ball either.
Click to expand...
The competitive community during the 2010s were under the impression that Nintendo, for all intents and purposes, was willing to play ball and even support it. Nintendo lied, profited and from this “investment”. Yet, they fell short of these commitments or flat out backtracked or bailed on them as we saw on the Smash Tour Circuit. COVID was a great excuse to cancel an event that they have no interesting in funding or supporting. Nintendo knows they profit from the competitive community and gaming influencers and streamers with very little money and effort spent on their part. They strung the competitive community, the casual community, TOS, event planners, other sponsors, and anyone else associated to this along in thinking that Nintendo was ready to work with and grow the Smash competitive community. And, regardless who you are, it’s the competitive community that allows Smash to live past the “the game is old news”. It’s the data and info that is collected by the community that keeps the community thriving. Otherwise, it just becomes a game people stop playing a year and half after release. Smash needs the competitive community to help keep in alive and thriving. Nintendo doesn’t give two ****s about it cause they can make a few one several years later.

Also, Nintendo has shown they don’t care for the great competitive scene for even games they “supports competitively like Splatoon. It appears since 30% of the competitive Splatoon scene has shown support for #SaveSmash and #FreeMelee, Nintendo has canceled all live-streams of the finals of an upcoming Splatoon event.
 
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A
Venus of the Desert Bloom said:
The competitive community during the 2010s were under the impression that Nintendo, for all intents and purposes, was willing to play ball and even support it. Nintendo lied, profited and from this “investment”. Yet, they fell short of these commitments or flat out backtracked or bailed on them as we saw on the Smash Tour Circuit. COVID was a great excuse to cancel an event that they have no interesting in funding or supporting. Nintendo knows they profit from the competitive community and gaming influencers and streamers with very little money and effort spent on their part. They strung the competitive community, the casual community, TOS, event planners, other sponsors, and anyone else associated to this along in thinking that Nintendo was ready to work with and grow the Smash competitive community. And, regardless who you are, it’s the competitive community that allows Smash to live past the “the game is old news”. It’s the data and info that is collected by the community that keeps the community thriving. Otherwise, it just becomes a game people stop playing a year and half after release. Smash needs the competitive community to help keep in alive and thriving. Nintendo doesn’t give two ****s about it cause they can make a few one several years later.

Also, Nintendo has shown they don’t care for the great competitive scene for even games they “supports competitively like Splatoon. It appears since 30% of the competitive Splatoon scene has shown support for #SaveSmash and #FreeMelee, Nintendo has canceled all live-streams of the finals of an upcoming Splatoon event.
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How much of that can you actually prove outside of hearsay? Like, documentation, not the word of some people on the internet. More than just circle jerking that Nintendo is terrible.

Also, you do realize most people probably do play it for a while and quit like normal people but come back and buy the next one anyways. Unlike traditional fighting games, Smash has so much star power and hype for what characters they're going to throw in, they don't really need the competitive scene. Besides, let's not forget that Big House was not innocent. Nintendo asked them to do something, but they refused.

And even if they don't care about it...so? That's their prerogative. As is canceling events for people bad mouthing them. Beyond that, it gets shadier, but I remain highly skeptical without some hard evidence. And I mean hard evidence. If I missed some, feel free to provide it.

Also, your link appears to be broken.
 
CaptainAnime
This post and earlier subsequent posts have been warned for potentially volatile language
Arthur97 said:
How much of that can you actually prove outside of hearsay? Like, documentation, not the word of some people on the internet. More than just circle jerking that Nintendo is terrible.

Also, you do realize most people probably do play it for a while and quit like normal people but come back and buy the next one anyways. Unlike traditional fighting games, Smash has so much star power and hype for what characters they're going to throw in, they don't really need the competitive scene. Besides, let's not forget that Big House was not innocent. Nintendo asked them to do something, but they refused.

And even if they don't care about it...so? That's their prerogative. As is canceling events for people bad mouthing them. Beyond that, it gets shadier, but I remain highly skeptical without some hard evidence. And I mean hard evidence. If I missed some, feel free to provide it.

Also, your link appears to be broken.
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Hey I just wanted to ask, how does the boot taste?
 
Perkilator
I don't usually dive too deep into subjects like these, but I will say this:

Neither side is really in the right in this whole situation. All this DMCA-ing isn't exactly a good look for Nintendo, but I feel like this wouldn't have gotten as bad as it has if Big House didn't refuse Nintendo's initial warning.
 
meleebrawler
Just going to mention some observations of mine on how people outside the Smash community are reacting to this...

Most of them are apathetic to the community at best, or at worst, clamoring for it's (Melee's) demise.

At this point it doesn't matter how true any of the allegations are, when the reputation of the group is this deep in the mud for the average stranger, inflaming anti-Nintendo sentiment will only go so far.
 
A
Well, the Melee community probably doesn't have a very good reputation given how it as a whole is at least perceived to view pretty much every other game and their fans. Especially Brawl.

Also doesn't help, for me at least, that they don't seem very forthcoming with hard evidence.
 
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DrCoeloCephalo
Arthur97 said:
I wouldn't go that far. Wouldn't be too upset if it did, but I don't really see how it would.
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Competitive was fine without Nintendo ever once supporting it and trying to bring it down plenty times before. I doubt it.

SnakeFighter64 said:
Honestly... making a game competitive ruins the fun of it.
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Fun is subjective and preferential. Different people have fun with different things for different reasons. If there was only one true "fun", games wouldn't need genre variety because people would only have fun with one game. Just because you personally don't have fun with a game played on a high skill level, it doesn't mean others can't or won't. It's honestly an extremely selfish way of thinking and from my own experience l see this kind of mindset is shared among casual players that are insecure about their unwillingness to get better at games they claim to love. I play plenty of games I love casually but I'm not so full of myself to say playing games on a higher level such as speedruns or tourneys ruins fun. It's just a DIFFERENT way of having fun that, depending on the game, may or may not be of my preference. People play games like tiddlywinks competitively because it's fun for them. They ain't hurting anyone other than people that feel the need to get upset about being bad at a game like tiddlywinks.
 
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CaptainAnime
Arthur97 said:
Also, you do realize most people probably do play it for a while and quit like normal people but come back and buy the next one anyways. Unlike traditional fighting games, Smash has so much star power and hype for what characters they're going to throw in, they don't really need the competitive scene. Besides, let's not forget that Big House was not innocent. Nintendo asked them to do something, but they refused
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Gee I wonder why Melee players still play Melee. Are you implying they're not normal? If anything, they have much more meaning to life than you could ever hope to have. Smash literally got big because of the competitive scene and The Big House was doing nothing wrong. They had every right to refuse. Quit licking the boots
 
meleebrawler
The_Bookworm said:
Honestly, I am surprised that people are acting like Nintendo opposing to competitive Smash is fresh news.

We have known for a long time they weren't supportive of the Smash scene. Their reluctance on letting Melee be ran in big events back in the late 2000s, early 2010s was already proof of that.

However, when they cancel a single event by virtue of us using non-official emulator in a Nintendo-sponsored event, THAT is when people started bringing up their reluctance on supporting competitive Smash?

If the claims given by the Twitlonger is true, then why did it take this long for the community to speak about it?

I am also shocked that people are surprised and furious that Nintendo doesn't support modded Smash games (Project M) that straight up changes the game's code. Are they expecting Nintendo to be proud of them illegally hacking the game?
Bringing non-official emulators to Nintendo-sponsored events is one thing. Bringing hacked Smash games to Nintendo-sponsored events is another.

Additionally, the Twitlonger's claims by PM's closure seems strange to me:
If PM hosted events wasn't given a cease-and-desist order, then why did PM's development close?
If TOs and streamers were baited into dropping PM, then why is PM still being ran in events and Twitch streams to this day?

Regardless on how PM "died", PM is still being ran in many different tournaments/streams, like how Slippi is currently having many tournaments/streams being ran right now without issue as we speak. I don't really see things changing much for the Smash scene from here on out, regardless on what others are saying.


Even so:
We are now going to endlessly complain on Twitter that Nintendo is hurting the Smash community and what-not, which is going to do change absolutely nothing.

It also doesn't help that the Smash community itself hasn't always given Nintendo a good reason to support them. Heck, half a year ago, we had a handful of sexual misconduct allegations/revelations that went haywire across the Smash scene, which understandably painted the entire Smash community in a very negative light by many people. Many individuals within the Smash community that are not involved in these allegations left the competitive scene after the event, and I personally don't blame them.

On a brighter note, Nintendo has now been supporting the competitive Smash scene financially for the past several years now. We were going to have an entire global circuit revolving around Melee and Ultimate this year (sponsored by Nintendo) if it weren't for the pandemic.

While Nintendo's actions, regardless if the claims given by the Twitlonger is true or not, has been very questionable when it comes to the competitive scene, we have very much thrived regardless of this, and none of that is going to change.

Hopefully we are going to enter 2021 without the Smash community self-destructing on themselves every few months.


On a more humorous side note:
I like how the NA Smash community have been in a constant state of chaos and turmoil this entire year, while the Japan Smash scene has been chilling in the background away from any of the chaos and controversy. They have even recently re-opened local events, while is something the NA Smash scene isn't going to experience for a very long time.
Click to expand...
The way Big House reacted to Nintendo's demands makes me wary of a precedent developing where if the community can't have officially sponsored Melee tournaments, they would rather bring every other community down with them than accept the hand they were dealt.

We may never know what would have happened in a scenario with the shoe on the other foot (Nintendo asking to cancel Ultimate for that tournament but allow Melee to run), but I can see how the Melee community, unkowingly or not, has cultivated an unsavory public image of being elitist, stuck-up and intolerant jerks who think their months, years of practice make them an authority on how a game should be played and chafe immensely at anyone who like anything different, and refuse to acknowledge any faults or flaws or twist them into positives. Such a thing would be a much bigger obstacle to growth than anything Nintendo could reasonably throw at them, but why do anything to change that in a change-allergic community when badgering a big company for financial support is a much quicker shortcut to stardom?

Moreover, can they even afford to attempt a legal battle with Nintendo if they want to come to that?
 
CHAMPIONX9
DrCoeloCephalo said:
Competitive was fine without Nintendo ever once supporting it and trying to bring it down plenty times before. I doubt it.



Fun is subjective and preferential. Different people have fun with different things for different reasons. If there was only one true "fun", games wouldn't need genre variety because people would only have fun with one game. Just because you personally don't have fun with a game played on a high skill level, it doesn't mean others can't or won't. It's honestly an extremely selfish way of thinking and from my own experience l see this kind of mindset is shared among casual players that are insecure about their unwillingness to get better at games they claim to love. I play plenty of games I love casually but I'm not so full of myself to say playing games on a higher level such as speedruns or tourneys ruins fun. It's just a DIFFERENT way of having fun that, depending on the game, may or may not be of my preference. People play games like tiddlywinks competitively because it's fun for them. They ain't hurting anyone other than people that feel the need to get upset about being bad at a game like tiddlywinks.
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The idea is the competitive smash will be less likely to attract new players to invest the time.
1.Nintendo could decide to double down making it harder for tournaments.
2.Nintendo may make it harder to stream smash.
2.Smash players disillusioned with nintendo, may wonder why they are playing the game, a game rooted in love for nintendo.
3. Pros may decide to move on to other esports (Since a smash career no longer seems viable)
4. A forced reduction in visbility shrinks the scene over time
5. Grassroots scene dead, nintendo can create their own scene the way they envision it. With full control.
6. People are like omg bless nintendo, and flock to the game.
7. Nintendo wins.
 
CaptainAnime
CHAMPIONX9 said:
The idea is the competitive smash will be less likely to attract new players to invest the time.
1.Nintendo could decide to double down making it harder for tournaments.
2.Nintendo may make it harder to stream smash.
2.Smash players disillusioned with nintendo, may wonder why they are playing the game, a game rooted in love for nintendo.
3. Pros may decide to move on to other esports (Since a smash career no longer seems viable)
4. A forced reduction in visbility shrinks the scene over time
5. Grassroots scene dead, nintendo can create their own scene the way they envision it. With full control.
6. People are like omg bless nintendo, and flock to the game.
7. Nintendo wins.
Click to expand...
Your 2nd Step 2 is never going to happen in a million years
 
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