Jackson
Smash Lord
With sheik, when I wavedash backwards to grab ledge, do I need to learn to fastfall to grab it faster? I can see why it would be good but I feel like when I try to do this I just fast fall through it. Is this important?
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Cool, so I basically just want to tap the stick down and let it return to neutral as I wavedash off?I wrote my reply in such a hurry - sorry for that.
You have a window to buffer the fast fall, before you become airborn, which is 3 frames. Remember to tap down quickly.
If you hold down you cannot grab the ledge and you will FF past it.
With that in mind practice some more.
FF is important if you want to optimize your game play and it's not super hard to get consistant with.
You still have to hold it for a little bit after you wavedash off to fastfall for as long as possible (and therefore grab the ledge as quickly as possible). You only want to let go of it when you'd end up grabbing the ledge immediately afterwards.Cool, so I basically just want to tap the stick down and let it return to neutral as I wavedash off?
Tapping it makes a lot of sense, i was only thinking of holding.
Great explanation, thank you. I'll use this as I practice, probably starting at 1/4th speed or so.You still have to hold it for a little bit after you wavedash off to fastfall for as long as possible (and therefore grab the ledge as quickly as possible). You only want to let go of it when you'd end up grabbing the ledge immediately afterwards.
The sequence of actions would be:
• Wavedash back
• Buffer fastfall just before falling off
• Keep holding down to fastfall
• Release down the frame before you enter ledge grab range
• On the next frame you'll fall into ledge grab range and grab the ledge
Since the timing never varies and you're doing it so often you'll probably end up being very consistently frame-perfect with this. There's a lot of leniency too; there are many frames where you'll still grab the ledge if you release the fastfall late.
This may just be personal preference, but I really wouldn't recommend practicing at a slower speed. The problem isn't that you can't do the inputs in the right order (which slow motion would help with by letting you confirm it visually), it's that your timing is wrong. At 0.25x speed (or any alternate speed) you're going to improve your timing very little, if at all, compared to just practicing at the speed you'll actually need to perform at. What you're practicing in slow motion is effectively a different technique with a radically different timing to the one you're trying to learn.Great explanation, thank you. I'll use this as I practice, probably starting at 1/4th speed or so.
Good points, thanks again. Another question, if you will; is fast falling to the ledge even needed with spacies? Or do they fall too fast as is?This may just be personal preference, but I really wouldn't recommend practicing at a slower speed. The problem isn't that you can't do the inputs in the right order (which slow motion would help with by letting you confirm it visually), it's that your timing is wrong. At 0.25x speed (or any alternate speed) you're going to improve your timing very little, if at all, compared to just practicing at the speed you'll actually need to perform at. What you're practicing in slow motion is effectively a different technique with a radically different timing to the one you're trying to learn.
I would recommend that you use normal speed. Start with what you're doing now, which is wavedashing and fastfalling just fine but continuing to fastfall for too long; then reduce the amount of time you fastfall for by a little bit at a time until you end up with a timing where you grab the ledge, then play around with timings around that point until you're grabbing the ledge a quickly as possible (this will mean fastfalling for a few frames but not for as long as possible).
You'll be able to feel it pretty easily with some practice. Even if you don't get it prefect, you'll be doing it so often in normal matches that you'll subconsciously adjust it until it is.
Spacies benefit from fastfalling to the ledge, just not as much. Frame data is below for a few characters. It doesn't take long to test so I might do the rest of the cast sometime.Good points, thanks again. Another question, if you will; is fast falling to the ledge even needed with spacies? Or do they fall too fast as is?
Another very in-depth answer, thank you. And I'm getting better at this with SheikSpacies benefit from fastfalling to the ledge, just not as much. Frame data is below for a few characters. It doesn't take long to test so I might to the rest of the cast sometime.
This is with a 315°/225° wavedash angle (the corner notch on the controller) on Battlefield, in case that makes any difference. Some of the edge cases might differ by a frame on Yoshi's story or with a really extreme wavedash angle, but I haven't checked.
As you can see: all characters save a considerable amount of frames by fastfalling. Floatier characters save relatively more frames while also being able to fastfall for longer before they drop too low to grab the ledge. Although "floaty" is a pretty nebulous term considering it encompasses falling acceleration, terminal aerial velocity, aerial drift control, fastfalling velocity increase, etc.
The same data in list format below. The format is:Character|Airborne frames without fastfall|Minimum airborne frames with fastfall|Maximum airborne frames with fastfall|Maximum number of frames saved by fastfalling (airborne frames without fastfall - minimum airborne frames)|Leniency when fastfalling (maximum airborne frames - minimum airborne frames)
Fox|9 (grab on 10)|4 (grab on 5)|7 (grab on 8)|5|3
Falco|10 (grab on 11)|4 (grab on 5)|6 (grab on 7)|6|2
Sheik|13 (grab on 14)|5 (grab on 6)|8 (grab on 9)|8|3
Luigi|17 (grab on 18)|6 (grab on 7)|11 (grab on 12)|11|5
Character
Airborne frames without fastfall
Minimum airborne frames with fastfall
Maximum airborne frames with fastfall
Maximum number of frames saved by fastfalling (airborne frames without fastfall - minimum airborne frames)
Leniency when fastfalling (maximum airborne frames - minimum airborne frames)
Sheik
13 (grab on 14)
5 (grab on 6)
8 (grab on 9)
8
3
Falco
10 (grab on 11)
4 (grab on 5)
6 (grab on 7)
6
2
Fox
9 (grab on 10)
4 (grab on 5)
7 (grab on 8)
5
3
Luigi
17 (grab on 18)
6 (grab on 7)
11 (grab on 12)
11
5