Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Yoshi-Thomas]

How about Dragonborn from Skyrim ? Because it's getting a release on Nintendo Switch. Definitely going to buy it btw.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How about Dragonborn from Skyrim ? Because it's getting a release on Nintendo Switch. Definitely going to buy it btw.

I may not be on board with that idea but I must salute you for your post combined with the avi

 

[Deleted member]

You know what Nintendo must do in the case Smash 4 gets ported?

To make this kind of trailer, showcasing every starter veterans and newcomers.

 

[Schnee117]

How about Dragonborn from Skyrim ? Because it's getting a release on Nintendo Switch. Definitely going to buy it btw.

Not my preferred Bethesda owned character (Doomguy and Blazkowicz take that) but Dragonborn would still be a great addition to the roster.

 

[UserKev]

Thanks.



I think something that people need to keep in mind is that not everyone plays the game or sees the obsession. Purrfect Cell wasn't wrong to make the callout in this case, but if you want people to love characters from a series you support, you gotta show them why. From face value, Fire Emblem looks like waifus and generic sword characters, that's just how people will look at it without further context.

I thought that was a dude Hahaha

There was literally no reason for her to respond so emotionally. She'd lose her self entering the intensity of supporting Ridley. I'm so done with that user.

Your post is a perfect example of how I feel about it. I don't hate the series. Its just "Swords. Swords everywhere." to me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Userkev, get over yourself.

Perfect Cell is a huge Ridley supporter and has been doing it longer than you have, I guarantee it.

Regardless, it's never a good idea to **** talk a mod.

 

[UserKev]

Userkev, get over yourself.

Perfect Cell is a huge Ridley supporter and has been doing it longer than you have, I guarantee it.

Regardless, it's never a good idea to **** talk a mod.

Then I don't understand why she responded to me the way she did. It was like a "New Challenger approaches" notice. Self centered and blew everything out of proportions. My last reply to you wasn't about you calling out my opinion against Fire Emblem.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then I don't understand why she responded to me the way she did. It was like a "New Challenger approaches" notice. Self centered and blew everything out of proportions. My last reply to you wasn't about you calling out my opinion against Fire Emblem.

She didn't blow anything out of proportion, she called you out and explained why you were wrong

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Opinions are all over the place on ARMS content when 70% and 30% is currently tied.

 

[Zem-raj]

I voted 50% for ARMS reps.

It's too early to tell.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If anything, Swamp didn't give you a good explanation, so I expanded on it. I don't mean any offense to you at all, Swamp, but that didn't really help much. Nor am I trying to offend you, UserKev. Fact of the matter is, you're very misinformed about the series. Which comes to a key point;

Why can't you just admit you made an error and move on? In fact, doing so would make a huge difference. Right now, you're acting extremely stubborn about this. This won't make people want to "be on your side" in a debate. Zestyn has a point too. I concur that they don't do enough to make the other characters stand out besides sword users, so it's easy for people to make that error. However, that's not an excuse in Smash. In Smash, the character beyond Lucina and Marth are very clearly unique and has pretty clearly various powers that make them less than generic. It's also clear I misread you a bit. I thought you meant they were all that in "Smash", not Fire Emblem. Now that I see you just were meaning FE, that's far more understandable, since as I said, it's easy to make that mistake about the series. You need to play it or Nintendo at least needs to promote other weapons/characters far more often. Right now, non-swordsman in FE is often obscure to non-fans. That's an issue in itself.

And yes, I want Ridley in bad. I just also see why he has yet to be in there. If anything, I acted silly about the whole "other bosses appear" situation. However, I don't pretend it's wrong for some to prefer him as a boss/stage boss/etc. Everybody has a different view of the character. I defend him, but also actually see the character as hard to get in too. The length of the tail and size of the wings, never mind the body proportions, can be an issue to balance. Not even the various Mods people made have gotten it done well. We have yet to see Sakurai get it right either, although Smash 4 suggests maybe he did try(Ridley has actual Smash-like moves, after all). He was quite aware of Ridley's fanbase at the end of Brawl, even noitng why he isn't playable. He never thought of it as the time. However, Smash 4 is not the same situation. He even explained why he wasn't playable in 4 as well.

 

[APC99]

For ARMS, I think it depends on how the series pans out in the next few months. Talking with some friends, a lot of them seem to believe that, competitive-wise, ARMS is going nowhere, due to the central gameplay being overly defensive. With the constant updates, however, I think there's potential for the game to grow and the meta to evolve past that defensive style.

There are a lot of Nintendo IPs in recent years that fell dead in the water, not because they're bad, but because they came out at the wrong time, or are simply overshadowed by other games in the same genre. For example, Intelligent Systems' Codename STEAM. A decent turn-based strategy with some unique ideas (it was a steampunk RPG featuring classic literary characters like Tom Sawyer and the Wizard of Oz cast, led by Abraham Lincoln of all people, to take down a Lovecraftian alien invasion in the middle of London's industrial revolution! AND LINCOLN HAD A BLOODY MECH AND WAS VOICED BY WIL WHEATON!) and a lot of fun in general, but it was revealed in a private conference at E3 2014, barely had any support behind it, and before it was released, the devs announced and showed off Fire Emblem Fates, which released little over a month after Codename STEAM in Japan. It's like how Disney was trying to revitalize animation by releasing a new Winnie the Pooh movie, in the exact same weekend as the last Harry Potter movie, then deciding that 2D animation must be dead if it didn't do well!

In my opinion for new IPs, unless your game came out on the NES and you can be considered a retro fighter, or you've had a new game release since the last Smash ended development, you're not getting into Smash as a fighter unless your fanbase is loud enough (which hasn't happened yet). Even if you do fit those requirements, you've got to stand out against the crowd of other Nintendo games, and hope that your game does well, otherwise you're kaput. This is no offense to anyone who supports said characters, because believe me, I want characters like Isaac, Chibi-Robo, Dillon, Starfy, etc. to finally get the upgrade, but they won't until they get back into the limelight. Which, sadly, doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon.

ARMS depends on how the game grows from here on out. It's selling well, but it's not the "next Splatoon" hit IP like people have anticipated. I personally feel like Spring Man and Ribbon Girl feel a bit generic as characters, but I feel that some kind of ARMS fighter would be interesting as Smash's answer to Dhalsim.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah ARMS isn't selling megatons but its still selling super well.

It's definitely a success and will definitely get a sequel down the line.

 

[UserKev]

She didn't blow anything out of proportion, she called you out and explained why you were wrong

Last post regarding this topic. Gotta defend my self.

So no, that statement is really shortsighted and you should actually do some research before making statements that will blatantly infuriate the fanbase and people who actually know what the characters are like. If you refuse to do research, then it's your fault when people call you out on it incorrect information. Don't blame anyone but yourself. You were wrong. Get over it.

This is blown out of proportion.

What's odd is, I'm seriously lost by this post as if I was just struck out the blue. Like, I have nothing to do with this. all I remember saying is strongly disliking generic sword lords. Its really not that serious as it was made out to be. It wasn't like, I was dissing the supporters of those characters. Her response was just "her out to offend me." If a mod is going to tell me "Get over it" I'm giving back the same response. Amazing how some of you ignore this because, you know. Mod defenders assemble.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Not taking sides, but it's probably best just to drop the subject entirely. These types of conversations usually just go in a loop, with civility degrading with each post and person joining in.

As for ARMS talk, I'm glad to hear that it is successful. Admittedly wasn't too sure on it at first, but think it's definitely worth the price tag. Definitely one of the games I plan on picking up, once I finally get a Switch. Going to try and get my hands on one this month.

Right now, I'm eyeing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, ARMS, and Splatoon 2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Right now, I'm eyeing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, ARMS, and Splatoon 2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

How is Super Mario Odyssey not on your eyeing list?

You can become a T-Rex! That automatically makes it worth the money

 

[FunAtParties]

Not taking sides, but it's probably best just to drop the subject entirely. These types of conversations usually just go in a loop, with civility degrading with each post and person joining in.

As for ARMS talk, I'm glad to hear that it is successful. Admittedly wasn't too sure on it at first, but think it's definitely worth the price tag. Definitely one of the games I plan on picking up, once I finally get a Switch. Going to try and get my hands on one this month.

Right now, I'm eyeing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, ARMS, and Splatoon 2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Breath of the Wild 1000%. The others are fine (idk about S2 yet), but BotW is being compared to some of the greatest games of all time for a reason.

How is Super Mario Odyssey not on your eyeing list?

You can become a T-Rex! That automatically makes it worth the money

All those games sans Splatoon 2 are already out, and that will come out soon. Mario Oddysey still has a ways to go.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

It's nice to see ARMS doing pretty well- unfortunately, I care too much about Breath of the Wild's DLC to bother to play it right now. I'm also personally less predisposed towards fighting games not named Smash Bros., but that's not the game's fault.

If ARMS starts to get a decently-sized metagame, I might consider looking into it.

Right now, I'm eyeing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, ARMS, and Splatoon 2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

If you're interested in getting ARMS, I suggest considering Pokkén DX. That comes out around September.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Arms is doing well it'll get more support down the line.

In smash? Most likely that and splatoon which is another series I am still surprised that hasn't been put into smash yet outside of mii stuff.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Arms is doing well it'll get more support down the line.

In smash? Most likely that and splatoon which is another series I am still surprised that hasn't been put into smash yet outside of mii stuff.

Splatoon seems to have missed the timing window. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little too difficult to make a good gimmick related to the ink due to the 3DS issues. Both could factor in(more the first specifically, although the second is possible). Considering they cut swimming in the 3DS version, liquid-related stuff might be too taxing. Who knows.

Honestly, the timing problems suck a lot sometimes. It may be even why Wolf wasn't DLC for all we know.

 

[APC99]

Honestly, my biggest question is how to design an ARMS character. Their motif would obviously be the extendable arms giving them a more turtle / defense-oriented playstyle, but where to go from there? None of the characters necessarily have special moves like other fighters, and if they do have unique abilities, there's the danger of seeming "too similar" to other Smash characters (Spring Man > Lucario's Aura / Rage, Ribbon Girl > Multi-jump characters like Pit / Kirby, Twintelle > Bayonetta's Witch Time, Mechanica > Peach's hover / Junior's Clown Car, the list continues)

I feel like the Up Special would definitely be a typical Dragon Punch-esque move, with the super long range of the arms. The Neutral Special would be some kind of charge punch attack (think like DK's Giant Punch, but with more range). Side Special could be either some kind of grapple move that allows you to grab onto opponents and pull yourselves towards them or pull them towards you (allowing the normal grab to be a more close-range grab). Down Special... maybe change the type of glove so that it effects how Neutral Special and maybe the smash attacks function? There's different elementals, so maybe having a character's base three gloves available to switch between would work.

Not taking sides, but it's probably best just to drop the subject entirely. These types of conversations usually just go in a loop, with civility degrading with each post and person joining in.

As for ARMS talk, I'm glad to hear that it is successful. Admittedly wasn't too sure on it at first, but think it's definitely worth the price tag. Definitely one of the games I plan on picking up, once I finally get a Switch. Going to try and get my hands on one this month.

Right now, I'm eyeing Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, ARMS, and Splatoon 2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

This is bias speaking, but Cave Story+ is one of my favorite games on the Switch, even at the currently steep price of $30. I don't know when or if it'll lower the price, but I stand with it. It is probably one of my top games of all time, even if it's available elsewhere (including the original freeware game).

Digitally, I'll stand by Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove and Shantae: 1/2 Genie Hero. Both have a lot of love into them, even if the latter is a bit shorter than I'd like.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Splatoon seems to have missed the timing window. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little too difficult to make a good gimmick related to the ink due to the 3DS issues. Both could factor in(more the first specifically, although the second is possible). Considering they cut swimming in the 3DS version, liquid-related stuff might be too taxing. Who knows.

Honestly, the timing problems suck a lot sometimes. It may be even why Wolf wasn't DLC for all we know.

Star Fox Zero wasn't the best for sales even if I really would want him in the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing to note is ARMS could take a Mother route and basically make the main character as a mishmash of some abilities. However, we need to see more of the game as is, because that may not even be necessary to have a fleshed out character in Smash. If they do go this route, it'd be easy to have Ribbon Girl and Spring Man as swaps.

Not sure what route they will go with if they have a playable character(I think they have a good chance, but if it's a port of Smash 4 with Sakurai heavily in charge, having a unique gimmick is that particular entry's focus, so it might be harder for them to stand out as individual options compared to mishmashes). Also, if somehow no one is playable, we'll definitely got an Assist Trophy.

Star Fox Zero wasn't the best for sales even if I really would want him in the game.

While true, it's more the timing factor. They could use Wolf to promote sales overall, as that excuse has been used before as is. Promotional characters is a thing for Smash(and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Sometimes issues happen more because of the fanbase not liking the choice, as we saw with the backlash from Corrin, more due to what series he was from, not so much the literal character choice). I can understand that, being FE got two DLC characters, so that can easily feel biased(and no, I love all the characters in Smash 4, even if some I can't play well, so despite not getting my main from Brawl back, I'm not honestly salty at all. I definitely want Wolf and IC's back if a port happens, though).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

One thing to note is ARMS could take a Mother route and basically make the main character as a mishmash of some abilities. However, we need to see more of the game as is, because that may not even be necessary to have a fleshed out character in Smash. If they do go this route, it'd be easy to have Ribbon Girl and Spring Man as swaps.

Not sure what route they will go with if they have a playable character(I think they have a good chance, but if it's a port of Smash 4 with Sakurai heavily in charge, having a unique gimmick is that particular entry's focus, so it might be harder for them to stand out as individual options compared to mishmashes). Also, if somehow no one is playable, we'll definitely got an Assist Trophy.


While true, it's more the timing factor. They could use Wolf to promote sales overall, as that excuse has been used before as is. Promotional characters is a thing for Smash(and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Sometimes issues happen more because of the fanbase not liking the choice, as we saw with the backlash from Corrin, more due to what series he was from, not so much the literal character choice). I can understand that, being FE got two DLC characters, so that can easily feel biased(and no, I love all the characters in Smash 4, even if some I can't play well, so despite not getting my main from Brawl back, I'm not honestly salty at all. I definitely want Wolf and IC's back if a port happens, though).

I don't think they'll go the way of merging the character attributes as they didn't do it for Little Mac and I don't see why this would be different.
Even if they're going that route, I don't think there's a lot of characters whose power would fit Spring Man thematically, not even considering those that would fit but wouldn't add anything to the ARMS based playstyle.

The ARMS in themselves are unique enough in my opinion, I don't think there's any point in shoehorning more gimmicks in that don't fit the character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think they'll go the way of merging the character attributes as they didn't do it for Little Mac and I don't see why this would be different.
Even if they're going that route, I don't think there's a lot of characters whose power would fit Spring Man thematically, not even considering those that would fit but wouldn't add anything to the ARMS based playstyle.

The ARMS in themselves are unique enough in my opinion, I don't think there's any point in shoehorning more gimmicks in that don't fit the character.

Little Mac is also the main playable character and there's far less emphasis on playing the others. It's a pretty different situation. He also had more naturally to work with. He also isn't in a game where the specific arms are actually signature weapons to specific characters(it's just not a game where those signature weapons are specific to those characters, that said).

The problem with just using arms is they're actually signature weapons for other characters. They alone aren't unique in the same way and still represent certain others by default. The Dragon Arm is intentionally Min Min's, even though others can use it. It'd still no real difference from the Mother scenario. The only way to not make it a mishmash by design is to find enough unique abilities that aren't simply just another character's signature weapon. Also, some attributes would work fine with Spring Man anyway. It's more that some swaps would not work due to body differences, with Ribbon Girl easily still working as a swap since they are barely different bar a few unique attributes.

I can't remember if any characters had more than one signature arms, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf being used to "promote" Star Fox Zero was always an asinine concept.


Like, I get how Corrin promotes Fire Emblem Fates, as Corrin is the protagonist of the game and literally debuts in said game.
But Wolf? He's been in Smash before and he doesn't particularly hold significance to Star Fox Zero.
Even Slippy would be better at "promoting" the game since he's one of the main characters and is the main protagonist in a tie-in spin-off to Zero that came with it (Star Fox Guard).

Trying to attribute "promotion" to Wolf always was just unnecessarily scraping at the bottom of the barrel for reasoning as to why he should be/should have been DLC, when the only reason that one really needs is "he was in Brawl and would be/have been an easy inclusion".

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, please no merging the ARMS' cast's abilities together.

I still have bad memories of the plethora of people who thought it'd make sense for Little Mac to have the Bull Charge, Super Macho Man's clothesline, and Aran Ryan's glove rope...

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, please no merging the ARMS' cast's abilities together.

I still have bad memories of the plethora of people who thought it'd make sense for Little Mac to have the Bull Charge, Super Macho Man's clothesline, and Aran Ryan's glove rope...

To be fair, the Bull Charge wouldn't have been so bad, considering it's just running up to someone and delivering a nasty uppercut. You kind of already do that with the KO Punch, except you do the dashing up to someone manually :V


The clothesline and glove rope, though....the former doesn't fit Mac's body type and the latter doesn't fit his status as a "clean" fighter, so I can see why those two would be frowned upon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The problem is the ARMS characters are unlikely to have enough moves to easily fulfill a gimmick, uniqueness, and stand out heavily. This is why I could see Namco-Bandai and/or Sakurai taking liberties and a few attributes from the series as a whole, not just one character. I do think using the arms(switching them out or using each one depending the move appropriately) is a cool gimmick that works. But there's no denying that they are signature weapons for individual characters. This isn't a bad thing, though. Just having the two key characters with some small references to other fighters is fine. I agree giving them attributes isn't the entirely best of ideas, but sometimes you have to go with something to make it stand out. Keep in mind that sometimes having one character for a franchise means you want to help represent the franchise too. See: Ness and Lucas. This isn't a bad design philosophy.

For Little Mac, they had found a way to work in a gimmick without him borrowing other character's abilities. If they can do that with an ARMS character, that's be awesome, no denying that. But if they can't, that's fine too. I want to feel like it's all about ARMS whether it's a composite character or not. Now, I don't know how most attributes could even added in some cases. I am aware that many require different body types too. That's clearly an issue that won't work. Basically, using Spring Man, any attributes that require a body type should mean only similar body types are referenced(this is also why they could potentially go for a swap using Ribbon Girl).

All I'm saying is we shouldn't discount this possibility of a design choice. Now, liking it/preferring it is another story. The characters are definitely unique, no doubt. I think every character should feel unique from each other too. Even most clones do that(bar Dark Pit, and maybe some NPC's like Metal Mario at best).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

An ARMS fighter could use items from the game.

Like imagine a side B that spawns a bomb from ARMS then you can hit it around.

 

[Curious Villager]

No offense, but Isn't their arm stretching mechanic not unique and gimmicky enough? Like do they have to throw sparkles and fireworks along with that in order to be justified as unique enough for Smash? Am I missing something?

I mean, yeah, there are already characters in the game with a long reach or two in their moves such as Corrin and Palutena, but I'd think an ARMS character would be a bit more about that and have their moveset represent that to a much larger extend (no pun intended) moreso than past characters. Perhaps they may even be able to use two moves at once, much like they do in their home game, where while one arm is preparing/charging up/is on cool down for one attack, they can use another attack with their other arm in the meantime.

If they need some additional stuff, there should be enough arm weapons they can use on the fly, even if they couldn't directly use it all like that in their home game, much like Pit does.

That's just my two cent's on that though.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

In terms of ARMS characters, I don't think they're happening until Splatoon gets Inkling in Smash first. As a series that's been around longer, retained way more popularity and received a sequel, Splatoon would get first priority over ARMS. That's not to say that new series are only added in order of chronology, but given their very similar circumstances of being new first-party IPs made by younger development teams of Nintendo's staff, it would make sense if the Inklings were seen as a higher value character to finish adding to the roster specifically compared to other newer characters from their own series.

You know what Nintendo must do in the case Smash 4 gets ported?

To make this kind of trailer, showcasing every starter veterans and newcomers.

Jeez, good luck keeping that under 5 minutes with the size of today's starting rosters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In terms of ARMS characters, I don't think they're happening until Splatoon gets Inkling in Smash first. As a series that's been around longer, retained way more popularity and received a sequel, Splatoon would get first priority over ARMS. That's not to say that new series are only added in order of chronology, but given their very similar circumstances of being new first-party IPs made by younger development teams of Nintendo's staff, it would make sense if the Inklings were seen as a higher value character to finish adding to the roster specifically compared to other newer characters from their own series.

You're saying it like Inkling has a chance to NOT be in the next Smash.

Honestly, getting them in Smash is pretty obvious at this point. The only reason I could see them NOT being in it is technical issues, like the ICs in 3DS.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

You're saying it like Inkling has a chance to NOT be in the next Smash.

Honestly, getting them in Smash is pretty obvious at this point. The only reason I could see them NOT being in it is technical issues, like the ICs in 3DS.

It's hard for me to imagine the Switch having technical issues with the Inklings anyway, unless they go all-in with the ink mechanic (e.g., stages keep track of where ink is covering it). Even then I don't think it'd be too difficult for the Switch to handle, especially on smaller stages. It depends on how they'd execute it, of course.

But yeah, putting Inklings in the next Smash is likely one of their biggest priorities, character-wise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair, it's possible the next Smash games could be a New 3DS/Switch combo. What they did last time has no precedent. We only have two reasons to believe the Switch is getting one. A rumor, and Reggia nonchalantly saying Smash will be available for the Switch at some point.

We just don't know enough to assume technical issues are impossible. We have good reason to believe the IC's weren't plausible for 8-Player Smash either, so just being on a console compared to a handheld alone doesn't mean much.

I think Inklings are likely too. But while they're a fairly safe bet, we have inconsistencies in how the rosters work/what we think would happen that didn't, that we should at best put them on the "extremely likely to be in" point. Remember when Wolf was seen as guaranteed? Yeahhhhhh. I mean, paying attention to the Brawl factor makes it easy to understand why he was cut, but only in hindsight(he was a last minute character as a spin-off of Fox's moveset, had no importance to the story(which also means he was low priority), and any chance he had for DLC was squandered when they had zero incentive to return him. He was still popular, sure, but that's... it. The moveset wasn't something they could retool Fox for like they did for Lucas, since Wolf is actually far more vastly different. And with no real reason to bring him back when more popular choices exist(Mewtwo the most popular, and the most popular Melee and Brawl vets). His only real chance was for promotional purposes DLC-wise. That wasn't an option.)

Slippy would make sense... if Wolf was never in. Fact of the matter is, Wolf is easily more popular. More people have clamored for Krystal than Slippy easily at this point. There wasn't really any viable options beyond Wolf that was remotely easy to do. Since, again, he was low priority as is(which is why he was not the DLC veteran for Brawl like Lucas was), they need an actual better reason than "eh, why not" to bring him back. He's not back for one simple reason; nothing worked out for him at this point. No good timing for promotion. No severe popularity polls(he didn't outdwarf Lucas at all, his only real competition). The situation was against him. That's just how things work. And yes, him being cut is very much related to timing issues. He had no games coming out at all, so his cut(being he wasn't as popular as Falco either) was a simple thing to do(being low priority for the Smash series in general didn't help). Replacing him with a far less popular character would've done nothing but make matters worse(people like Wolf way more than Slippy. Zero wouldn't do much for Slippy's case here, unless Wolf was still in Smash, that is). Some might've accepted Krystal for uniqueness alone, but she wasn't in the right position with how bad Command was anyway. Nor any games soon. Wolf had one game coming(but too late) to keep him in. He doesn't have a strong veteran status like the original 12(especially Jigglypuff), just poor timing issues which makes his already low priority status easy to go with.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to ask you to stop using the word "promotion" for Wolf, Irene.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To be fair, the Bull Charge wouldn't have been so bad, considering it's just running up to someone and delivering a nasty uppercut. You kind of already do that with the KO Punch, except you do the dashing up to someone manually :V

It should be noted, however, that the Bull Charge is an instant knockdown for Little Mac. The KO Uppercut is not a guaranteed 1-hit KO by any means.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why is the idea that Wolf's only chance was due to promotion so hard to swallow? We know the other DLC reasons. None of them were "because why not". Every DLC choice had actual reasoning behind it.

His only game available was delayed too often. That was his window in both getting into the base game and DLC.

I already explained why Slippy made little sense to get in over Wolf. We've seen how Sakurai feels about overdoing some series and being careful with his DLC choices. He almost didn't put in Corrin due to this.

I can't think of any really good reason to bring back Wolf outside of "easy to use as a promotional tool for Star Fox Zero". I'm not saying strictly as that, but the main reason, and being a popular vet is secondary. But due to his plans, being a popular vet was already taken by 3 different characters. And they each were more specific than that;

-Mewtwo: The most popular veteran and to test if people are willing to do DLC(which is a first for Smash overall, at least paid DLC/something other than friend-sharing like in Brawl)
-Ryu: Because Street Fighter II is an iconic game.
-Cloud: Because he's iconic.
-Lucas: The Brawl Vet.
-Roy: The Melee vet.
-Corrin: To promote Fire Emblem Fates.
-Bayonetta: Because she won the poll.

If Wolf were to have come back, he needs an actual reason. It's very clear that "because we can" is not a reasoning in itself Sakurai was willing to use. We already can assume Wolf's cut was due to having no games coming out at the time, just like Lucas. Mewtwo is a hard one to say. Apparently he's just low priority to begin with. Jigglypuff beats him out somewhat(most likely an original 12 factor, but who knows). Everything else was either 3rd party issues we don't know the details of(Snake) or 3DS issues.

And yes, I felt my previous version of this post was a bit too unreasonable, so I rewrote it. I definitely came off as "I'm right, you're wrong" earlier, and that's not cool. My explanations should help my viewpoint be more clear now.

 

[Opossum]

The thing is, though, Corrin was Fates' main character.

Wolf wouldn't be major enough to promote Star Fox Zero when Fox and Falco were already enough.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing is, though, Corrin was Fates' main character.

Wolf wouldn't be major enough to promote Star Fox Zero when Fox and Falco were already enough.

No, they weren't. SFZ was not going to release till the DLC period was happening. Fox and Falco cannot promote it because they are already part of the game. Wolf was it due to the fact he can not only have a redesign, but because he was cut due to no games coming out. Wolf's first game in a while was coming out. It got delayed a lot, though. This was the only reason he'd have come back, since thee's no other plausible reason whatsoever.

It doesn't matter who the "main character" is if they're already in the game. SFZ's timing is too far later from the base game to promote in any way. They can only promote it with someone who is not in the game or through DLC. That's the timing window for it. It was Wolf or nothing.

It's very obvious Slippy didn't have the popularity to be DLC. Never mind the backlash if he was another spin-off/clone of Fox. Wolf got some flak for that already, but got popular later on due to being an actual important character and people realizing only some of his specials were clone moves at best. Slippy? I don't deny he could be unique, but they would need to do it later on when he's more popular, and not after they just cut a very popular character in the series. That'd have not gone over well.

It would not make any sense at all to include Slippy as a promotional material unless Wolf was one for SFZ. At least then people would not be mad that their favorite was replaced with a less popular character. People need to stop acting like Star Fox Guard would do much. It's just a spin-off, not the main game. And you can't promote the main game with "nothing" at all. To promote SFZ, they have to use something new. Guess who was in the game, played a role, is a popular vet, and got flak for not being in 4? That was the best option because it makes perfect sense to use.

Nobody needs to be the main character to come back as a vet. You just need an actual reason to do so. Whether you're promoting something or not.