• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

ItsMeBrandon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
382
Location
USA
NNID
HumanMaleBrandon
"Smash 4 just feels like an advertisement"
Meanwhile Ness would literally have been cut in Melee so Lucas could take his place had it not been for Mother 3 getting delayed in Japan
Let's not forget Captain Falcon and the retro characters. And the 3rd-party characters, I mean, Sakurai included Cloud- the character who represents not only Final Fantasy, but the moment its main series games shifted away from Nintendo's systems- in Smash 4, of all choices.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
When the all-star character tank runs low and is depleted, you go with the characters who had a recent impact as opposed to a more omnipresent impact. It's not that Smash 4 started the trend, it's just most noticeable now that the bar has reached its current low. So I can see where the argument stems from. The number of new "big name characters", excluding third-parties, will continue to decrease, only making the "promotional/recency" perspective seem more apparent. It didn't start with Smash 4 and it will continue on into the future.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,866
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Let's not forget Captain Falcon and the retro characters. And the 3rd-party characters, I mean, Sakurai included Cloud- the character who represents not only Final Fantasy, but the moment its main series games shifted away from Nintendo's systems- in Smash 4, of all choices.
Or maybe Cloud represents the JRPG that made JRPGs popular
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,425
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
Wait, wasn't one of the main detracting reasons to Bowser jr (Other than Rosalina being included to the point most didn't see another Mario character happening) that he didn't make as many recent appearances in the then more recent Mario games than he used too? Like he missed the boat on New Super Mario Bros 2, only made an optional boss appearance in Dream Team and wasn't even playable in the original Wii U version of Mario Kart 8 (but the Koopalings did) He did make an appearance in New Super Mario Bros U and Sticker Star though but that apparently didn't mean much to some people....
It should also be noted that Bowser Jr.'s constant habit of utilizing his Junior Clown Car in the mainstream Mario titles may also explain why he got stuck with the Junior Clown Car in Smash 3DS / Wii U.
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,025
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
It should also be noted that Bowser Jr.'s constant habit of utilizing his Junior Clown Car in the mainstream Mario titles may also explain why he got stuck with the Junior Clown Car in Smash 3DS / Wii U.
You make it sound like it was to his detriment. :p
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,702
I like how I'm the misunderstood member of Smashboards.

I made it clear that by old school, I meant the absence of historic themes that doesn't need a remix. In the end, I'm still attacked for it.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,866
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
I like how I'm the misunderstood member of Smashboards.

I made it clear that by old school, I meant the absence of historic themes that doesn't need a remix. In the end, I'm still attacked for it.
People were giving you **** for a different reason, saying that Smash feels like an advertisement now when it's been nothing but one since the beginning
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Part of the problem with newcomers is that the pool is getting more shallow.

There's three main routes I see;

1. New Characters from Represented Universes (King K. Rool, Medusa, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Ridley, etc.)
2. New Characters from Previously Unrepresented Universes (Isaac, Inkling, Spring Man)
3. Third Party Characters (Rayman, Jibanyan, etc.)

Each one has their preexisting challenges (the triangle of relevance, popularity, and uniqueness), but there's also the issue of how people will react to the announcements.
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,702
People were giving you **** for a different reason, saying that Smash feels like an advertisement now when it's been nothing but one since the beginning
I don't remember anyone giving me *** I guess besides one user. Me saying Smash is an advertisement isn't even a reason for people to give me ***

Honestly, I consider my self above the fanbase now. I may come off bias, ignorant or even dumb but there's some truths to the things I say.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,866
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
To be fair, Bowser Jr. probably would've been more nimble on his feet if he were to ditch the Junior Clown Car. On the other hand, the Junior Clown Car does help make him heavier than he'd normally be.
If Sakurai wanted him to be nimble in the clown car, he would have been nimble in the clown car. That's what got him in the game in the first place. That, and a dedicated team as Jr was nearly scrapped
 

Schnee117

Too Majestic for Gender
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
19,766
Location
Rollbackia
Switch FC
SW-6660-1506-8804
Comments here never fail to astound me sometimes. Hoo boy.

To be fair, Bowser Jr. probably would've been more nimble on his feet if he were to ditch the Junior Clown Car. On the other hand, the Junior Clown Car does help make him heavier than he'd normally be.
As Gwen said, if Sakurai wanted Jr to be nimble in the Clown Car he would have made it so Jr would be nimble in the Clown Car. Different animations, framedata, properties and all that stuff.

 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It should also be noted that Bowser Jr.'s constant habit of utilizing his Junior Clown Car in the mainstream Mario titles may also explain why he got stuck with the Junior Clown Car in Smash 3DS / Wii U.
Actually, if you want to get technical.....

.....it was most likely the other way around.

Much like Rosalina was picked before she became a major recurring character, Jr.'s habit of using the Junior Clown Car started after he was picked for Smash.

Granted, he did have New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Mario Party 9, and New Super Mario Bros. U was in development (where he would once again use the Clown Car in boss battles), but it wasn't really a "staple" at that point.
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,025
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
Actually, if you want to get technical.....

.....it was most likely the other way around.

Much like Rosalina was picked before she became a major recurring character, Jr.'s habit of using the Junior Clown Car started after he was picked for Smash.

Granted, he did have New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Mario Party 9, and New Super Mario Bros. U was in development (where he would once again use the Clown Car in boss battles), but it wasn't really a "staple" at that point.
Though not exactly the same, but in a similar case, Bowser Jr. also used different mechs a lot in the Galaxy games, like the Megaleg. Yeah, it's not the Clown Car, but the association between Jr. and weaponized battle mechs still existed a bit.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Though not exactly the same, but in a similar case, Bowser Jr. also used different mechs a lot in the Galaxy games, like the Megaleg. Yeah, it's not the Clown Car, but the association between Jr. and weaponized battle mechs still existed a bit.
That is true. Sakurai probably saw Jr. as a mech-fighter, then saw the Jr. Clown Car was a thing and was like "That's how Jr. will be in Smash. I'm a frickin' genius!" or something like that.
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,829
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
Jr even used a mech in his debut game of Sunshine when he was in the Mecha-Bowser, so he's been using mechs since his beginnings. Also it makes him super unique and it was a great way to get a mech fighter into Smash without it being OOC.
 

APC99

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
4,244
Location
Appleton, WI
NNID
APC-99
3DS FC
3840-8265-8211
Junior has always been "brains over brawn" compared to Bowser since Sunshine, using the Magic Paintbrush and the Bowser Mech instead of his father's more physical fighting style. I think the Bowser Jr. focus was mainly due to New Super Mario Bros. Wii / U showcasing him in the Clown Car, as well as Mario Party 9 / Dream Team / Sticker Star taking place between the mainlines w/ more Clown Car-riding appearance. It was becoming the status quo, so that's how he appeared. It gives him more unique options than he would've without it, anyway.

I like how I'm the misunderstood member of Smashboards.
Honestly, I consider my self above the fanbase now. I may come off bias, ignorant or even dumb but there's some truths to the things I say.
That's an interesting approach to arguing an opinion, I haven't seen the "I'm right, you all just don't understand it" method in a while.

Your whole argument was that there isn't much balance between classic and new content, when in reality, I'd argue that Smash 4 has some of the strongest classic content out of the bunch. There's 2-3 characters actually meant to be "advertisements", being Robin and Greninja being the FE / Pokemon newcomers, and Corrin used to promote FE Fates as a DLC character. Besides that...
  • Mega Man was entirely based around the classic Mega Man games, with a heavy emphasis on Mega Man 2's special weapons, plus series staples like Rush Coil, the slide attack, and the faithful use of the Mega Buster.
  • Little Mac uses a mechanic from the oft-forgotten SNES Super-Punch Out!! game, is entirely built around the boxer fighting style, has an alternate costume of the iconic pink hoodie, and has 8 extra alternate costumes using the Wireframe Little Mac from the arcade Punch-Out!! that released in the early 80's.
  • Pac-Man would've been cut if they made Sakurai use the new design. He's entirely based around his classic arcade games, including references to bloody PAC-LAND, and moves from the Pac-Man World series.
  • Duck Hunt. Just... Duck Hunt. He represents everything from the Light Gun games, from Wild Gunman to Hogan's Alley, and of course, Duck Hunt.
  • Ryu was purposely designed to reflect Street Fighter II with references to the other 3 mainline Street Fighter titles. His light / medium / heavy mechanic is based on the first arcade Street Fighter, his attacks reflect his SF2 moves, the SF3 parry reference, the Focus Attack from SF4...
  • Cloud was entirely based around Final Fantasy VII, one of the most iconic JRPGs of all time, that didn't even appear on a Nintendo console. He wasn't just a mascot for Final Fantasy, he reflected his actual character, and used his own attacks and Limit Breaks.
  • Roy and Lucas both got some updates to reflect their games of origin, even though both are early-2000's GBA titles that have never left Japan.
  • Other veterans got updated moves, too. DK's roll attack, Link's jump slash, Olimar's new jab combo...
  • Magicant, Mute City, Wily Castle, Dream Land 3DS, Balloon Fight, Pilotwings, PAC-LAND, Midgar, Suzaku Castle, Great Cave Offensive, Wrecking Crew, all of the 64 stages... All based on classic games.
There. There's my rant. Hope it's not too below you. :)
 

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,770
Location
London
Jr even used a mech in his debut game of Sunshine when he was in the Mecha-Bowser, so he's been using mechs since his beginnings. Also it makes him super unique and it was a great way to get a mech fighter into Smash without it being OOC.
Yeah, he also used a mech to assist Bowser at the final battle of Mario Sunshine.

Thinking about it, Bowser Jr has pretty much always been a mech user throughout the Mario series, especially in the main games, I guess it has probably been a bit more of an oversight from the fans side as most where preoccupied on him using that paint brush (or being a mini Bowser clone on the detractors side...)
 
Last edited:

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
Every Smash Bros. game incorporates and pays homage to the classic era of Nintendo. So there's always going to be material that falls under that category. Just by estimation and guesswork I would say that proportionally Smash 4 does feature less "classic era" content than Melee or Brawl (again - proportionally), but I don't really understand what is to be gained by proving the point.

Us coming to a consensus isn't going to alter Smash's trajectory to focus primarily on what has happened since the last Smash with some nods to earlier eras. I do wish Smash acted as more of a net or blanket, taking more generally and equally from all eras of Nintendo: a little from the retro era, a little from cube/advance era, a little from the Wii era, and a little from the current era, but it doesn't work that way, and I understand why that is.

I can stomach the few additions that are unrepentantly promotion given most of the roster, even if it skews to the newer, make sense as additions that could still happen organically. Despite how some more sycophantic speculators tend to act, the roster choices aren't perfect, and Sakurai isn't infallible, but... **** I'd still take him calling the shots above Nintendo themselves. If they were leading the ship I'm given to think we'd end up even further in the hole of recency and oversaturation of "key" series.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,972
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
Every Smash Bros. game incorporates and pays homage to the classic era of Nintendo. So there's always going to be material that falls under that category. Just by estimation and guesswork I would say that proportionally Smash 4 does feature less "classic era" content than Melee or Brawl (again - proportionally), but I don't really understand what is to be gained by proving the point.

Us coming to a consensus isn't going to alter Smash's trajectory to focus primarily on what has happened since the last Smash with some nods to earlier eras. I do wish Smash acted as more of a net or blanket, taking more generally and equally from all eras of Nintendo: a little from the retro era, a little from cube/advance era, a little from the Wii era, and a little from the current era, but it doesn't work that way, and I understand why that is.
Maybe it's more that the Smash team's design sensibilities are different from those of other crossover fighters. Based on Marvel vs. Capcom and others, many have come to expect a mix of old and new--mainly old--with a focus on which characters have the greatest legacy. It's treated as a measuring stick of sorts, a gauge of who is worthy enough to join the roster and who isn't.

Thing is, that's not how the Smash team does it, and Smash 4's newcomers made that very clear. For first party non-retro newcomers, legacy was secondary to relevance, uniqueness, and moveset potential. If they were prominent enough to be considered and had those traits, they had a shot regardless of if the fans thought they "deserved" it.

There've been a lot of theories as to why, and many of them are pretty cynical. Accusations of betrayal, of bias, witch hunts toward characters who were deemed too new or unpopular to dare "steal a slot" from those the loudest speculators preferred!

But...not everything we disagree with must necessarily have been done out of malice. Based on what we've observed and what Sakurai has spoken about, it seems more than anything like the Smash team thinks newer characters matter too. And as someone who experienced what it's like to be dismissed and deemed "unworthy" all the time growing up, a feeling I imagine many here have felt firsthand, it feels wrong to turn around and do exactly that to other people just because they support someone who isn't on the bandwagon's side.

While I don't agree with every choice the team has made...I understand why they did it, and why they want to give the new blood their chance in the spotlight instead of reserving it for only the long runners. Compared to that, doesn't it seem a little immature when the collective fandom hangs a sign on the door that says "NO NOOBS ALLOWED (unless you're popular)", and sneers at support of anyone they don't approve of?
 
Last edited:

Vintage Creep

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,673
Location
Silent Hill
NNID
VintageCreep
NINTENDO CINEMATIC UNIVERSE

PHASE 1:

1. Super Mario Bros. - set in present day in the Mushroom Kingdom, it's a simple story about Mario saving Peach from Bowser's evil plan. Bowser wants to marry Peach but Mario manages to stop him (similar to Odyssey I assume). Luigi is of course present as the funny side-kick guy, and Daisy too. Luigi and Daisy are clearly in a relationship. Mario meets Yoshi for the first time. Other characters include Bowser Jr., Toads, and Poochy. The game contains various hints about the Donkey Kong franchise, and there's a Wario cameo in his WarioWare appearance. The post-credit sequence scene involves a Toad finding a warp to the real world and teleporting to Kanto, discovering streets with real humans (still cartoony) walking around with Pokémons. A Pikachu is the last thing we see in the movie, perlpexed by the Toad.

2. The Legend Of Zelda - set thousands of years ago, sort of like in a Skyward Sword era, tells the original story of the Goddesses, and the battle between Link, Zelda and Demise. It's basically a game similar to Breath Of The Wild in tone, but with Demise instead of Calamity Ganon. Link is a mute hero who simply knows that needs to defeat Demise. Zelda is the real protagonist of the movie, helping Link in his quest. They, helped out by Impa, Tingle (the side-kick), and Epona go through various villages and dungeons, meet Gorons, Zoras, and Ritos but in the end only half accomplish the mission, since Demise is not defeated and promises to have revenge on them. Zelda and Link form a group to stop evil from conquering the world, and Zelda references that they will need the help of Altea. The post-credit sequence is about Demise in an alternate dimension, looks like in the middle of space, talking to someone: it's Master Hand, telling him that his failure was needed for their plan to be set in motion.

3. Metroid - set in present day, it tells the story of space bounty hunter Samus Aran, answering a distress signal coming from Planet Zebes, where a group of scientists has been kidnapped by the Space Pirates for reasons unknown. Kind of like an horror movie, takes deep inspiration from Alien and The Descent, showing Samus' slow uncovering of a conspiracy in the galaxy. She fights Kraid, Ridley (which survives), Phantoon, and gets her armor upgraded by some findings of the Chozo culture (this aspect is different from the games and more "magical"). In the end, she kills Mother Brain, but Zebes gets completely destroyed in the process. She flees and returns to a city, briefs the Federation, enters a bar and reveals her face for the first time, ordering a drink. She then hears a voice "Hey Samus, I'm gonna need your help for something.". It's Fox McCloud, and it's implied they know each other very well (this is also the post-credit scene).

4. Pokémon: The First Generation - set in present day in the Kanto region, it tells the story of Red, a young Pokémon Trainer who wants to become the world champion of the Pokémon League. Even though it's called the first generation, all Pokémon from all the games appear, even though Gen I is more prevalent. He has a Pikachu of course, which is his companion, a Charizard, a Lucario, a Decidueye, and a Lapras. Brock and Misty appear even if very different from their anime interpretation. All three of them get contact by Professor Oak which asks them to investigate on the sightings of a new Pokémon in the region. It's Mewtwo, created by Giovanni and the Team Rocket who want to use him as a biological weapon and sell it to an "undisclosed third party". Blue is also in the movie, it's the rival but in the end helps the group in their quest. The Toad from the Mario movie is comically portrayed throughout the movie following them around and studying them, confused. In the end they manage to defeat Mewtwo (which joins the party), Giovanni is imprisoned, the third party is revealed to be Andrew Oikonny from Star Fox. In the movie, Red battles the fighting gym leader, which is surprisingly a pretty old Little Mac, still wearing his gloves. The post credit scene is about Red receiving a letter with the Smash Bros. logo on it.

5. Kirby's Dreamland - set a few years in the past (even though it's never mentioned exactly in the movie), it tells the simple story of the original Kirby game. King Dedede is the major villain in the movie, but doesn't do much terrible things. Kirby simply must stop him from eating all the people's food by himself. Kirby is joined by Meta Knight, Rick e Knuckle Joe in his quest. It's extremely juvenile and it seems the high stakes of the previous movies are completely absent. Along the way though, they encounter Captain Olimar, an incredibly small character, with a bunch of Pikmins, which explains that he was stranded on this world after entering a black hole. The whole movie is silent, so this scene is explained in a flashback. Meta Knight is the only one doing the talking. In the end, they simply convince Dedede to shut up and be good, which he does. Whispy Woods appears. The post credit scene is about Olimar, setting up a Pikmin colony on Pop Star Planet, trying to rebuild his ship.

6. Super Smash Bros. - set in present day, the movie starts with Mario getting to Peach's Castle, she calls him because she's got an invitation. It's the Smash Bros. letter Red also found. They open it and Mario, Peach, Luigi and Yoshi find themselves in another dimension for some reason. Samus, Fox, Red and his Pokémons, Kirby, Meta Knight and Olimar are also present, all confused by what's happening. An giant R.O.B. tells them they've been called to make a set of various challenges to prove they're worthy. It's not explained what they need to be worthy for, but all the characters are forced to make various virtual reality challenges consisting of fights against Wire Frames characters, puzzles, and stuff like that. The final enemy is Taboo from Brawl, and the collective alliance of all the characters is needed to defeat him. When they do, it is revealed the reason behind all of this. The R.O.B. guiding them in the challenges is revealed to be actually Link, depicted in a modern look. He tells them he's the descendant of the ancient hero meant to protect the universe by the King Of All Evil. A modern Zelda is also present, both appear a fusion between fantasy and science fiction. They are assembling a team of heroes for their quest: the Super Smash Bros. Link and Mario join hands, and Link tells them this is a good start, but there needs to be more. The post credit scene shows Crazy Hand, chained up in a cave, completely immobile. After a while, one of its fingers moves a bit.

PHASE 2:

7. Star Fox - set in present day after Phase 1, it tells the story of the Star Fox team in their mission to stop the machinations of scientist turned mad, Andross, of conquering the galaxy. Falco, Slippy, Peppy and General Pepper are introduced. They cross the galaxy with the intention of attacking Venom before it gets too strong. In a scene, Captain Falcon makes a cameo appearance on a television, racing. Slippy is a big fan of him apparently. It's a high-octaine adrenaline-fueled action movie. Samus Aran is in this, helping the Star Fox team in their mission, and it's revealed Andross is actually using Metroids for his plan. Ridley also appears again, now Meta Ridley, trying to get revenge. He survives again. The final battle against Andross restores peace in the galaxy. The post credit scene shows the Olimar ship entering Corneria's atmosphere.

8. Super Mario Odyssey - set in present day, it tells the story of Mario and his friends entering the real world through the warp they found. It's the first actual sequel in this cinematic universe. The real world is inhabitated by Pokémons but they're not prevalent in the story. They enter the real world because, this time, Daisy has been kidnapped, and Luigi asks for help. A Squirtle and Shroomish are along them though, playing a joke since they resemble a Koopa and a Goomba. Mario is shown having extreme physical capabilities compared to the normal humans in the Kanto region. They travel all the way to Alola where they find out Bowser is not responsible for the kidnap: he was actually trying to help to redeem himself. The real culprit this time around are Wario and Waluigi, who have become instantly famous in the real world for their weird appearance and character. They created a game show, WarioWare, Inc.!, and Daisy is a presenter in this. They resolve all of this in comical ways really, and it's of course a light-hearted movie. The post-credit scene shows Peach's throne, abandoned. Donkey Kong's feet appear on the scene, but he's not shown, and he makes some weird monkey noises.

9. Punch-Out! - set in the 1980's, it tells the origin story of Little Mac. Set in Unova (yes, Pokémon are still in here somehow), it's a pretty serious, violent and dark take on the Nintendo world. Little Mac is against using Pokémon in fights, so he enters a circle of boxing trying to prove he doesn't need them. In here, he fights famous characters from his franchise like Glass Joe, Soda Popinski, King Hippo. He also has a love interest in the form of a new character. The final battle though is set against an Hitmonchan. At first Little Mac doesn't want to fight it, but in the end finds out Hitmonchan actually enjoys boxing, so he comes around on his anti-pokémon fights stance, and becomes friends with Hitmonchan. The movie itself is a simple one-off, and it's not intended to continue the story. The post ending scene shows his love interest character starting a line of fitness gyms, becoming basically the Wii Fit Trainer.

10. The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time - set again in the far past but after the first Zelda, it's a re-imagining of the classic Nintendo 64 game. Link and Zelda are young, and the main villain is Ganondorf, which kills the King Of Hyrule and tries to find the Triforce to bring back his master (Demise). This time Link is helped by a Goron, a Zora and a Rito himself, a team of champions formed by Zelda to avenge his father. Darkness has fallen on Hyrule, but there's no time travel gimmick. The Ocarina is present only as a cameo at first, and its utility is never really explained. Of course they manage to imprison Ganondorf in the Dark World, but not before he manages to transform into Ganon. The post credit-scene shows Link using the Ocarina, and teleporting himself in a new world. He looks around, and we recognize the world as being from Xenoblade Chronicles.

11. Fire Emblem - again set in the distant past, it tells the story of Marth, prince of Altea, waging war against Garnef and the shadow dragon of the Dolua empire after being attacked cowardly and losing his father. The Fire Emblem world seems completely untouched by technology compared to the Zelda world. It's a pretty simple film in which they manage to defeat Garnef and the dragon. The post-credit scene is about Marth meeting with the Zelda and Link from the original Zelda film, and they ally to form the Smash Bros. project.

12. Super Smash Bros. Melee - set in the present, it revolves around the arrival of the Ultra Beasts in the Pokémon World. It's explained Ultra Beasts are ancient creatures set to destroy everything, and they were awaken by someone from space. Mario, New Link, Red, Samus, Kirby, Olimar, Fox, they all unite their forces to defeat them. A new character resembling Marth appears, and of course it's revealed to be Lucina. It is not explained how she is in present times. Necrozma takes the role of the main villain of the movie. It is of course revealed that the Ultra Beasts are not evil by themselves, and they were just woken up by Master Hand, which finally reveals itself to all the characters. The post-credit scene shows a bowl of dark liquid boiling with menace, but it's just a cameo of Cooking Mama and a fake out.
 

asia_catdog_blue

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
994
*sigh* I hate how JRPGs are now(or more) represented by that game. I think Squaresoft went way too far on the production values of FFVII. I mean, $45 Million to make one game?

Maybe I just saw more appeal of JPRGS on the SNES than on the PS1/X.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
*sigh* I hate how JRPGs are now(or more) represented by that game. I think Squaresoft went way too far on the production values of FFVII. I mean, $45 Million to make one game?

Maybe I just saw more appeal of JPRGS on the SNES than on the PS1/X.
I think FF is less and less of an RPG these days. The XIII Trilogy took place in hallways, XIV has that World of Warcraft "anything goes" vibe, and XV is an open world game with cars & stuff.

Also disappointed Dragon Quest doesn't get As much recognition. Yo-Kai Watch has a Moogle hybrid & Jibanyan riding a Chocobo, but I would like Jibanyan as a Slime Knight.
 

Oddball

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
1,811
I think trying to figure out why Nintendo uses the characters it does and doesn't use others is just a path to madness.

Every single game they've made has had characters where the reaction to their inclusion can only be described as "well, I never expected them in a million years" as well as having some "obvious" choices that still haven't made it into the series yet.
 

asia_catdog_blue

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
994
I think FF is less and less of an RPG these days. The XIII Trilogy took place in hallways, XIV has that World of Warcraft "anything goes" vibe, and XV is an open world game with cars & stuff.
Of course, one must define what an RPG really is.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

Smash Champion
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
2,420
Of course, one must define what an RPG really is.
An RPG is a game where you can be someone else, with the game either giving you a predetermined character (such as Earthbound), or almost total freedom on your background and future choices you can make.. Like Skyrim, who soon will be released on Nintendo Switch. I can't wait to play it.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,385
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
An actual RPG is more about stats and experience than anything else. It started with CRPG's which were basically D&D as video games. Without actual stats and a mean to gain experience or some kind of experience-related system, it really isn't an rpg. Zelda is definitely not an rpg whatsoever. Zelda II is one, but the series in general is an Action Adventure series with some rpg elements(and one FPS). Skyrim is an RPG due to the tons of experience-related stuff.

The Paper Mario series is a game of rpg's, where one game is more Action Adventure-based than pure rpg. Very often, a turn system has relevance, but that's for traditional rpg's. Stuff like Hyrule Warriors is closer to a hack-and-slash rpg. Sticker Star and Color Splash are definitely rpg's, they just have a different kind of level up system(it's just different from the basic traditional one).

Things like health bars are basically an rpg element as is, as they're the exact same thing as having a listed set of Hit Points, just as a bar. Many older video games didn't even have a HP system to any real degree. Usually it was "you get hit once, you die" with sometimes a "you get 1 extra hit to your name". Fighting games rarely even have a straight HP number for all to see anyway. It's just "100% health" at best. It's rare you can increase or decrease it. The fact you can change it is just an rpg element. Although obviously fighting games made health bars notable as being separated from a traditional Hit Point system by changing up how it works.

The thing about other Zelda games is that you don't really level up in even a remotely traditional sense. You see the rpg influence to a degree as you level up your items/weapons and gain more Heart Containers, but that's it.
 

NonSpecificGuy

V Has Come To
Super Moderator
Premium
Writing Team
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
14,022
Location
Mother Base
NNID
Goldeneye2674
3DS FC
0989-1770-6584
Game genres are a very thin line to walk. The only way to dive deeper into games and the genres they inhabit is to dive into subgenres.

For instance, one of the easiest way to narrow down a genre is to look at it on surface level. 2-D or 3-D? Let's go with 2-D. Is it top-down or Side-scrolling? Let's say side scrolling. Is it a stage by stage game or is it based on exploration? Exploration. MOST of the time you would then point to said game being a Metroidvania.

That's not always the case as games like Another World are VERY explorative but lack essential parts of a Metroidvania game like character progression and collectibles. So in that way game genres are almost subjective to each person.

Is Breath of the Wild an Action-Adventure or a RPG? Either honestly. Is the new Shantae a typical platformer or is it a Metroidvania. Either. It's, honestly, not even worth trying to debate about genres in general. They are what they are and if they fall directly in line with a genre, good. If not, then good. It doesn't really matter.

Edit: Here's a thought. Try to describe what genre Zelda II falls in. It's pretty tough to nail down when you get into the nitty-gritty.
 
Last edited:

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,972
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
I think trying to figure out why Nintendo uses the characters it does and doesn't use others is just a path to madness.

Every single game they've made has had characters where the reaction to their inclusion can only be described as "well, I never expected them in a million years" as well as having some "obvious" choices that still haven't made it into the series yet.
It's more that the Smash team's design sensibilities are different from other crossover fighters and from what the fans think or expect. We can get a decent idea of what they look for by analyzing past choices and reading the statements and articles Sakurai has written, but the key is remembering it doesn't really follow the fandom's preferred narratives.

Not that it stops the outcry of "How dare you!?" half the time a newcomer is revealed who didn't have a bandwagon behind them.

I really wish more people realized the Smash selection process isn't meant to be a seal of approval. We all slip into borderline tribal warfare for reasons that aren't even real!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom