So...why exactly did DK go down so much?

[mountain_tiger]

I know that the infinite D3 has on him is one of the main reasons they haven't placed him higher, but haven't they known that since the first tier list came out? IMO, he was about right on the second tier list at number 14, and I don't see why he went down since then. With the exception of D3 and Olimar, he does well against the high tiers, he has lots of range and kill power, and takes forever to kill. And he isn't even that slow either, because his most useful attacks (Bair, Utilt etc.) are not slow at all, and few of his moves have both high start-up AND ending lag. I just don't get it...

 

[Pr0phetic]

Well it's basically the same reason as why this isn't a fully active board, he gets little representation in tourney, and his metagame isn't advancing well/fast enough to improve.

 

[SuSa]

Metagame has halted for the most part. Little rep. in tourneys.

D3 infinite.

 

[Ragnar0k]

If more people played him he'd be higher. tier list~popularity list.

wow, ninja'd. mod hax

 

[mountain_tiger]

But ROB doesn't get that much tourney rep either... And his tourney results aren't that bad.

 

[daisho]

But ROB doesn't get that much tourney rep either... And his tourney results aren't that bad.

Isn't he going down too?

And you don't understand the extent that DK is underrepresented.

Yup, rob started as #6 and is now #12.

Dk has a steady 4 place decrease rob has 3.

Most of the community doesn't even know about the Up B glitch on Yoshi's. I would be interested to know if some of the back room doesn't know.

(I know your gonna say its just wifi so it doesn't mean they are good, but two 1800+ people on the aib ladder didn't know about it).

 

[mountain_tiger]

Isn't he going down too?

And you don't understand the extent that DK is underrepresented.

Yes, but not quite as much as DK. And funnily enough, ROB also has a high tier unwinnable matchup.

 

[SuSa]

Yes, but not quite as much as DK. And funnily enough, ROB also has a high tier unwinnable matchup.

Only unwinnable at the highest levels of play where people just learn to deal with ROB's moves most of his greatest options require the opponent to mess up (nair) and not punish them for the end lag. ETC.

Powershielding and timing airdodges makes the matchup a hell of a lot easier. <_< (some people, like Marth. It doesn't matter if you airdodge perfectly. He can normally punish you right after you do so....)

 

[daisho]

Yes, but not quite as much as DK. And funnily enough, ROB also has a high tier unwinnable matchup.

2 spots less... its not so big of a deal...

And DDD chaingrab is getting banned more and more lately, if it comes out in the next official ruleset then DK could move up a lot.

 

[Ragnar0k]

It should. Infinites stagnate the metagame.

 

[Darknid]

Without infinites, DK is easily S tier..He would have 0 **** matchups, only 3 legit disadvantages in high tier(all 40-60s), and beating Snake is always a plus.

 

[Raimundo]

Without infinites, DK is easily S tier..He would have 0 **** matchups, only 3 legit disadvantages in high tier(all 40-60s), and beating Snake is always a plus.

Don't get ahead of yourself. DK is a big character model, with no projectiles might I add, which increases the chance of projectile camping and makes hard-to-hit attacks simple and easy to land. If they ban my fatty's infinite, he will most likely go up about to B tier AND STAY B tier unless something can be done about his metagame.

 

[daisho]

Don't get ahead of yourself. DK is a big character model, with no projectiles might I add, which increases the chance of projectile camping and makes hard-to-hit attacks simple and easy to land. If they ban my fatty's infinite, he will most likely go up about to B tier AND STAY B tier unless something can be done about his metagame.

Dude what are you saying.

First, DK is big, he takes alot of damage, he also lives longer than most.

Who is succesful at projectile camping DK?

What are the hard-to-hit attacks that your talking about?

DK is in B tier already.

DK has 40-60/45-55 against MK
50-50/60-40 against snake
45-55 against wario
40-60 against falco
40-60 against diddy
60-40 against DDD
60-40 against marth
50-50 against G&W
50-50 against pikachu
45-55/40-60 against olimar
IDK ics
55-45 against ROB
50-50 against kirby

None of those matchups except MAYBE falco, wario or olimar are **** matchups and it can be argued that DK can fight all of them.

His weight more than makes up for his size and his bair and up b either go through or clank most projectiles. Combine that with amazing KO potential and a great offstage game and you definitely get an A tier character.

(If any of my ratios are off someone can correct me).


If you don't know about DK don't try to post things about him.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I would say A tier.

He's got relatively good/even matchups across the board.

edit: does smashboards look weird for anyone else? It's not loading properly for me and everything is white.

 

[phi1ny3]

Certainly needs to go up, without a shadow of a doubt.
Some of those numbers are a bit skewed tho.
inb4bigfootifhe'sstillhere.

 

[OverHyped]

Why does noone rock him at tourneys? I know our elites our out there but for a good character he seems the least played.

 

[Gindler]

Wario has a 0-100 CG on DK..................or has a way to escape that been found?

 

[Commander_Beef]

His metagame is great. He's a great character...but the main reason is because of the characters who rose above him...they're metagames grew much more.. Donkey Kong hasn't changed but he's still okay where he is.
Characters like Zero Suit Samus and Toon Link...they improved a lot.

 

[jpl315]

Wario has a 0-100 CG on DK..................or has a way to escape that been found?

im wondering this myself as i have been a recent victim

 

[demonictoonlink]

his Metagame Is Great. He's A Great Character...but The Main Reason Is Because Of The Characters Who Rose Above Him...they're Metagames Grew Much More.. Donkey Kong Hasn't Changed But He's Still Okay Where He Is.
Characters Like Zero Suit Samus And Toon Link...they Improved A Lot.

This

9001this

 

[SoupaSonic]

Yeah, I think that he should be between High B or Mid A since DK is pretty good and he has good range with great power (I love his forward smash and giant punch) plus you can counter alot of attacks if you use the D-smash since it's pretty fast and powerful. Not to mention when his giant punch is fully charged you can take an attack (well maybe I'm wrong) and still hit them.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Yeah, I think that he should be between High B or Mid A since DK is pretty good and he has good range with great power (I love his forward smash and giant punch) plus you can counter alot of attacks if you use the D-smash since it's pretty fast and powerful. Not to mention when his giant punch is fully charged you can take an attack (well maybe I'm wrong) and still hit them.

Don't forget the other characters that are there. They're the main reason Donkey Kong is where he is now and not higher.

 

[WheelOfFish]

DK's two biggest problems are his poor vertical recovery and being subject to chaingrabs. Other than that he is amazing in Brawl. If they banned infinites (why AREN'T they banned is the real question here), DK would probably be ranked 10th. He has some bad match-ups, but the only abysmal ones are caused by chaingrabbing.

 

[Commander_Beef]

DK's two biggest problems are his poor vertical recovery and being subject to chaingrabs. Other than that he is amazing in Brawl. If they banned infinites (why AREN'T they banned is the real question here), DK would probably be ranked 10th. He has some bad match-ups, but the only abysmal ones are caused by chaingrabbing.

Understood....
And the point I'm trying to reach across is that...if he was really 10th right now, where would the other characters be? Would Olimar really be right below him at 11th? (In which he's 10th right now)... but Olimar has great matchups and so does Pikachu who is 11th right now. How would these contend to Donkey Kong's prevailance to be 10th?

 

[daisho]

Wario has a 0-100 CG on DK..................or has a way to escape that been found?

Wario has to be pretty perfect with his frames and it does about 4 damage per throw. It can be done but usually is not done.

DK also has insane cargo releases against wario to kill him at early percents.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Understood....
And the point I'm trying to reach across is that...if he was really 10th right now, where would the other characters be? Would Olimar really be right below him at 11th? (In which he's 10th right now)... but Olimar has great matchups and so does Pikachu who is 11th right now. How would these contend to Donkey Kong's prevailance to be 10th?

Pikachu would be lower if it wasn't for the chaingrabs too. DK really has few horrible match-ups aside from those with massive chain-grabs on him. Olimar isn't DK's best match, but I honestly don't know what the tier would look like if (ridiculously broken) chain grabs were banned. I just know that DK would be a lot higher, and about 10th is where I'd guess he'd land.

 

[SoupaSonic]

Now that I think about it, DK should be taking either Kirby's place or R.O.B.'s, well maybe not R.O.B., but in my opinion he should be #13 at least.

 

[Luigi player]

It's not save to choose DK in tourneys because of Dedede... he can only be chosen as a counterpick (and most people would choose someone else before DK; he's pretty good but not the best, and few people are interested in him it seems).

 

[Demp]

Wario has to be pretty perfect with his frames and it does about 4 damage per throw. It can be done but usually is not done.

DK also has insane cargo releases against wario to kill him at early percents.

Cargo release? Do tell.

 

[Luigi player]

Cargo release? Do tell.

He probably meant the normal grab release to upsmash.

 

[Will_]

DK was simply overrated on the first tier list. As much as I heart DK and beat Donkey Kong Country every morning before breakfast, he's got some big weaknesses that put him where he is now.

Good news is that he's done dropping. We got a chance to advance him a few spaces if we step it up.

 

[smashkng]

Understood....
And the point I'm trying to reach across is that...if he was really 10th right now, where would the other characters be? Would Olimar really be right below him at 11th? (In which he's 10th right now)... but Olimar has great matchups and so does Pikachu who is 11th right now. How would these contend to Donkey Kong's prevailance to be 10th?

Anyway the reason of why Olimar isn't higher is his terrible recovery. It's too easy to edge hog him and it doesn't matter if you have or haven't ledge invincibility.

 

[daisho]

He probably meant the normal grab release to upsmash.

Yeah, i meant grab release Up Smash or Punch.

 

[Ragnar0k]

or forward smash.

 

[loki15]

Not to turn this into a infinites ban discussion, but what about the ice climbers? An enormous amount of their metagame revolves around infinite chaingrabs. If infinites are banned, they go way down too.

 

[daisho]

ICs infinite is different. It can be avoided. DDDs can't.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The ICCG isn't comparable to the DDD because ICs have a pretty bad grab range, can't really set up to grab, and can't camp the entire match while waiting for almost anyone without a snake-level projectile to approach and then shieldgrab.

 

[Demp]

Yeah, i meant grab release Up Smash or Punch.

Had me excited there. >.<

 

[daisho]

Had me excited there. >.<

Lol, Up smash isn't good enough?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Lol, Up smash isn't good enough?

Not as good as grab releasing to a Ground Break to Forward smash or SA Punch when your opponent is standing near the ledge. MINdGAMEZ!

Anyway the reason of why Olimar isn't higher is his terrible recovery. It's too easy to edge hog him and it doesn't matter if you have or haven't ledge invincibility.

We all know that already, get with the program. Nobody answered my question and you fail at discussing important things like that. You're the opposite of a smash king.