Some tactics i havent seen

[Ministry]

Im just starting to play G&W a bit more and have read and watched a lot.

Just some things i noticed while playing, I dont think they have been discussed since g&W doesn't get much attention. Qerb correct me if im wrong.

When hanging on the edge I noticed something. Like samus you can ledge jump and cancel your animation and land on your feet without any lag. if you just go high enough to meet the stage. This can work really well since you can NO lag jump then forward smash or down-smash immediately with no lag. Possible uses, punishing characters being too close and hitting them/ spacing moves on there shield. Also you can do it and then grab right away since characters think you will ledge hop fair or dair and shield. Its like a pseudo tomahawk.

I haven't tested this one out on a whole lot of characters. When you dash attack floaties and they get sent behind you i believe you have enough time to WD backwards and reverse jab into ect... If they dont tech it, its a jab reset if they do you still can follow. It works well because they don't expect you to be in their face right away, also because of the IASA frames you can get there faster then it looks. kinda like marths dash attack.


Also if you full hop bair backwards and time to bair so it ends half way, you can land the first hit of your upair before you hit the ground and then proceed from there. I think this is useful against floaties since bair is a good zoning move and the upair should send floaties far enough away not to be punished.

Just some stuff while i was playing, I hope to bring G&W up a bit and i would like to convince people hes not as bad as people think

 

[t3h Icy]

Get lots of 9s.

 

[j00t]

Get lots of 9s.

lies .

 

[DualCats]

I bet doing that into dtilt would be terrifying.

 

[SnakeMan]

Yes ^this. I need to go home right away and try this.

Yay for new gnw tech!

 

[QERB]

Im just starting to play G&W a bit more and have read and watched a lot.

Just some things i noticed while playing, I dont think they have been discussed since g&W doesn't get much attention. Qerb correct me if im wrong.

When hanging on the edge I noticed something. Like samus you can ledge jump and cancel your animation and land on your feet without any lag. if you just go high enough to meet the stage. This can work really well since you can NO lag jump then forward smash or down-smash immediately with no lag. Possible uses, punishing characters being too close and hitting them/ spacing moves on there shield. Also you can do it and then grab right away since characters think you will ledge hop fair or dair and shield. Its like a pseudo tomahawk.

I haven't tested this one out on a whole lot of characters. When you dash attack floaties and they get sent behind you i believe you have enough time to WD backwards and reverse jab into ect... If they dont tech it, its a jab reset if they do you still can follow. It works well because they don't expect you to be in their face right away, also because of the IASA frames you can get there faster then it looks. kinda like marths dash attack.


Also if you full hop bair backwards and time to bair so it ends half way, you can land the first hit of your upair before you hit the ground and then proceed from there. I think this is useful against floaties since bair is a good zoning move and the upair should send floaties far enough away not to be punished.

Just some stuff while i was playing, I hope to bring G&W up a bit and i would like to convince people hes not as bad as people think

You're definitely right about being able to edge-hop with out the landing lag. I do like to do this from time to time, the only reason why I can't abuse this as much is that the people who I play most of the time (ppl who know how to play against g&w pretty well) tend to back wayyyy up when i'm on the edge because they know what's coming =P

However, there are some match-ups/positions where I would never go for this. Like against spacies, especially fox. The reason for this is if the fox predicts the edge hop on to the stage and just reacts with a shine to edge-guard, things can get bad. Against fox especially I prefer trying to do a quick waveland grab/d-tilt (depending on where he's edgeguarding u from) or a edge-hopped retreating f-air (then regrab the edge) orrrr if they player is bad and they're edge-guarding you from immediately above you can just edge-hop u-air, but if the player knows anything about the matchup they won't do that.

I think that one of the ways to best "bait" a player into falling for this is to pressure their shield with an edge-hopped f-air first, then re grab the edge. So then the next time they see you start to edge-hop, they'll be ready to shield again. And when they go to put the shield, you just land on stage and grab/d-tilt/f-smash or whatever works well in the situation. I like doing this the most against puff, more-so against chars who don't have quick reaction-based edge-guards.

GJ noticing that tho, i don't think we ever pointed this out before lol =P

 

[Ministry]

these tactics are good

 

[bubbaking]

When hanging on the edge I noticed something. Like samus you can ledge jump and cancel your animation and land on your feet without any lag. if you just go high enough to meet the stage. This can work really well since you can NO lag jump then forward smash or down-smash immediately with no lag. Possible uses, punishing characters being too close and hitting them/ spacing moves on there shield. Also you can do it and then grab right away since characters think you will ledge hop fair or dair and shield. Its like a pseudo tomahawk.

What do you mean? I'm guessing, when hanging off the ledge, you press the jump button and then do something to keep them from jumping. If so, how do you do this?

I haven't tested this one out on a whole lot of characters. When you dash attack floaties and they get sent behind you i believe you have enough time to WD backwards and reverse jab into ect... If they dont tech it, its a jab reset if they do you still can follow. It works well because they don't expect you to be in their face right away, also because of the IASA frames you can get there faster then it looks. kinda like marths dash attack.

But don't floaties get hit up a bit too much for this to work at mid to high %'s?

Just some stuff while i was playing, I hope to bring G&W up a bit and i would like to convince people hes not as bad as people think

Well, he is, but I think he still has potential.

You're definitely right about being able to edge-hop with out the landing lag. I do like to do this from time to time, the only reason why I can't abuse this as much is that the people who I play most of the time (ppl who know how to play against g&w pretty well) tend to back wayyyy up when i'm on the edge because they know what's coming =P

However, there are some match-ups/positions where I would never go for this. Like against spacies, especially fox. The reason for this is if the fox predicts the edge hop on to the stage and just reacts with a shine to edge-guard, things can get bad. Against fox especially I prefer trying to do a quick waveland grab/d-tilt (depending on where he's edgeguarding u from) or a edge-hopped retreating f-air (then regrab the edge) orrrr if they player is bad and they're edge-guarding you from immediately above you can just edge-hop u-air, but if the player knows anything about the matchup they won't do that.

See, from this, I'm thinking that you're talking about letting go of the ledge and then jumping back so that you land on the stage at the very peak of your jump. If so, can't all chars do this? Apparently, G&W's is special, but I don't see how...

I think that one of the ways to best "bait" a player into falling for this is to pressure their shield with an edge-hopped f-air first, then re grab the edge. So then the next time they see you start to edge-hop, they'll be ready to shield again. And when they go to put the shield, you just land on stage and grab/d-tilt/f-smash or whatever works well in the situation. I like doing this the most against puff, more-so against chars who don't have quick reaction-based edge-guards.

GJ noticing that tho, i don't think we ever pointed this out before lol =P

Is it possible for them to shieldgrab G&W out of the ledgehopped fair before he can regrab? It happens to me all the time when I play Marth.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ministry, I think the great problem with your situation of jumping on the ledge, is how SLOW Game and Watch actually falls. He has to drop considerably lower than Ganon to jump back on the stage without lag. This means he's vulnerable way longer and it's easier to see coming. At low and mid level play, I can see this having uses, but the moment you advance somewhat in the brackets and people play smart and fast, there's really no time for shenanigans like that. Just like the 'Jump from the Ledge onto the Battlefield platform'-trick. It's fun to do on noobs, but the moment you have capable player standing near the edge, ready to edgeguard you, it's not feasible to use jump from the ledge, or jumping onto the edge laglessly, it's just too slow and leaves you open.

I think the best options on the ledge are ledgejump F-air, but don't pull forward, just regrab the edge. If it missed, it'll lure them forward usually, and allows you to quickly grab the ledge and wavedash onto the stage behind them and F-smash surprise or something.
Don't attempt this VS Marth by the way, his Sword is way too long for him to even bother coming close.

 

[bubbaking]

Ministry, I think the great problem with your situation of jumping on the ledge, is how SLOW Game and Watch actually falls. He has to drop considerably lower than Ganon to jump back on the stage without lag.

So you guys are talking about letting go of the ledge and jumping back up onto the stage? Is this what's called edgehopping/ledgejumping?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Jumping onto the ledge is what I call releasing and jumping onto it without lag, ledgehop is usually letting go, DJ + aerial and jump from ledge is when you press jump when hanging on the edge.

 

[bubbaking]

So my next Q is this: above, there was talk of G&W getting a lagless ledgehop if spaced correctly, but doesn't every char get this?