Some tips against Pit / Dark Pit?

[CasteHappy//]

( sorry if I make any mistakes, haven't practiced my english lately )

Okay so,

I'm trying to use Doc in every matchup even if it's hard for him, I got through a lot of Sheik / Yoshi / Rosalina players with a lot of effort but I just don't know how to play against Pit, his range stops Doc everytime I try to punish because he's so slow in the ground. Without customs I can gimp the hell out of him, but I find really difficult winning the neutral game, and if he's using customs Pit is almost untouchable offstage, and his arrows gimp you efficiently with no effort.


Any advice? Is the mu really that bad?

( if there's already a discussion about this matchup please tell me )

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Pits are in fact kinda stupidly good...

Really there's not much specific about this matchup to do. Throw out a few DAs to try to exert presence on the ground and hopefully you connect or clank and stay in range to pressure. You can at least Jab2 -> Up-B in this matchup, though Dtilt -> grab is better at low percents.

 

[Wintropy]

Pit is stupidly good?

That's news to me.

Anywho, my advice would be to just work that combo game and force Pit to respect your strength. Only go for gimps if you're extremely confident, as Pit can return from off-stage in almost any situation, and his aerials can keep you away if you're coming for an off-stage kill. Pit has difficulty killing in neutral, especially against a heavy fighter like Doc, and you should be able to soften him up and get the kill before he does if you're cautious and stay on-stage.

There's no quick way to win. Grind it out, play cautiously, be careful with Pit's bait-and-punish tactics and keep your head on.

 

[Dobbston]

Foxtroting and shield sliding helps a bit with Dr. Mario's mobility. Against Pit, tornado and Dtilt work well.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Foxtroting and shield sliding helps a bit with Dr. Mario's mobility. Against Pit, tornado and Dtilt work well.

That's the main strategy I try to do against Pit, but if I mess up even a little, his dash attack and dash grab will do the job, also his Ftilt. I guess I need him to approach Doc by throwing pills because my approach is kinda predictable and slow, and then try to bait him out. Tornado helps a lot yea.

Pit is stupidly good?

That's news to me.

Anywho, my advice would be to just work that combo game and force Pit to respect your strength. Only go for gimps if you're extremely confident, as Pit can return from off-stage in almost any situation, and his aerials can keep you away if you're coming for an off-stage kill. Pit has difficulty killing in neutral, especially against a heavy fighter like Doc, and you should be able to soften him up and get the kill before he does if you're cautious and stay on-stage.

There's no quick way to win. Grind it out, play cautiously, be careful with Pit's bait-and-punish tactics and keep your head on.

I feel like I should be able to kill him earlier, but I'm too confindent at approaching that I almost always get punished. Need to keep calm I guess, not one of those chars that will be at the defensive against doc. Thanks for the reply~

The Pits are in fact kinda stupidly good...

Really there's not much specific about this matchup to do. Throw out a few DAs to try to exert presence on the ground and hopefully you connect or clank and stay in range to pressure. You can at least Jab2 -> Up-B in this matchup, though Dtilt -> grab is better at low percents.

DTilt -> Grab works fine, but if his nair comes quick enough, that piece of crap stop my combos or grabs if he's in the air with the first half of the move, not strong, but it works and it's so annoying. Thanks for the reply~

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pit is stupidly good?

That's news to me.

Anywho, my advice would be to just work that combo game and force Pit to respect your strength. Only go for gimps if you're extremely confident, as Pit can return from off-stage in almost any situation, and his aerials can keep you away if you're coming for an off-stage kill. Pit has difficulty killing in neutral, especially against a heavy fighter like Doc, and you should be able to soften him up and get the kill before he does if you're cautious and stay on-stage.

There's no quick way to win. Grind it out, play cautiously, be careful with Pit's bait-and-punish tactics and keep your head on.

He has some strong players in Japan, less representation in the US from what I've heard. Either way I'm of the opinion that Pit/Dark Pit are super good competitively. Not many characters can actually kill with F-throw (this is extremely important, because a F-throw KO relatively close to the ledge is very easy to pressure someone into and doesn't require many gimmicks especially when your stage control options are as good as Pit's). Then there's his super strong midrange, poke options, good throw combos, and generally strong aerials. Their only weaknesses are being somewhat tall and floaty, but everything else about them is pretty blatantly above average.

The Pits are among Mario/Doc's hardest matchups because there isn't a lot to exploit in those matchups aside from them sorta being susceptible to U-air strings and D-tilt setups, and they capitalize on Mario/Doc's dead zones extremely well.

 

[Wintropy]

He has some strong players in Japan, less representation in the US from what I've heard. Either way I'm of the opinion that Pit/Dark Pit are super good competitively. Not many characters can actually kill with F-throw (this is extremely important, because a F-throw KO relatively close to the ledge is very easy to pressure someone into and doesn't require many gimmicks especially when your stage control options are as good as Pit's). Then there's his super strong midrange, poke options, good throw combos, and generally strong aerials. Their only weaknesses are being somewhat tall and floaty, but everything else about them is pretty blatantly above average.

The Pits are among Mario/Doc's hardest matchups because there isn't a lot to exploit in those matchups aside from them sorta being susceptible to U-air strings and D-tilt setups, and they capitalize on Mario/Doc's dead zones extremely well.

Y'know, I would have had almost the opposite perspective: that, aside from a few impressive strengths, Pit is strikingly average. Like, the middlest of the mid-tiers. That at least offers me hope.

Agreed, though, this is a dangerous matchup for Doc. And I play Doc.

 

[Dobbston]

Pit has good range but his stuff doesn't come out all that fast; Pit's Jab comes out in 5 frames and is pretty laggy and his Nair comes out in 4 frames. Pit's got some really good stuff that spaces like his Dtilt and Ftilt but the majority of his aerials come out in 10 frames or more and his Nair doesn't have nearly as good of range as it looks. Pit obviously has more range than Dr. Mario on many of his moves but I don't know if that's really all you need to auto-win a match-up. Also, the dash attack/dash grab mix-up is pretty standard with most characters so you'll need to be able to deal with it regardless of match-up.

 

[Kisatamura]

It's a pretty tough matchup because both of the Pits are pretty well-balanced in addition to having more range and kill power than Dr. Mario and in my own personal opinion, Mario as well. The only thing the Marios have against the Pits are their faster frame data, and better combo ability in the case of Mario (In which case Doc has some basic two hit combos). Either way, try getting up close to Pit as their only really fast moves like DSmash are punishable on block. To be fair, Dr. Mario has the advantage of playing a somewhat better range game than Mario since Megavitamins cover additional angles. You can always try to bait or punish poorly spaced moves like if a Pit misses with their ftilt, but it's essentially trying to brute force your way in and keep up the damage lead.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Either way, try getting up close to Pit as their only really fast moves like DSmash are punishable on block. To be fair, Dr. Mario has the advantage of playing a somewhat better range game than Mario since Megavitamins cover additional angles. You can always try to bait or punish poorly spaced moves like if a Pit misses with their ftilt, but it's essentially trying to brute force your way in and keep up the damage lead.

Absolutely agreed with this, I played for like 2 hours yesterday with a decent Pit and he usually tries to Ftilt/Dsmash to punish approaches on the ground, and sometimes he goes for a second Ftilt/Dsmash if the first one misses. I just foxtrot back and fort until he's close and tries to throw out attacks, if he hits your shield at a close range, shield grab or upb at high percentages, if he hits you at mid range, shield slide and grab him. I feel like the whole mu is about pushing him away when he's at the offensive even if you only jab and edgeguard him with the cape / tornado.

 

[Wintropy]

Remember as well that Pit only has so many kill moves, and they can all be avoided and punished easily: f-smash is sloooow and is pretty much a free shieldgrab if you react in time, d-smash is fast but also a good option to shieldgrab if the first hit misses, f-throw only works if you're right at the edge and Upperdash Arm is...well, yeah, it's Upperdash Arm.

Be careful about getting too aggressive, though. A good Pit will space you out and pivot f-tilt / grab when you approach. Pit's not an aggro fighter at all, he'll always be on the move and trying to punish predictable tactics, so you need to keep a step ahead of him. Once you figure out how Pit fights and can exploit his tactics, you're on the right track to victory.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Be careful about getting too aggressive, though. A good Pit will space you out and pivot f-tilt / grab when you approach. Pit's not an aggro fighter at all, he'll always be on the move and trying to punish predictable tactics, so you need to keep a step ahead of him. Once you figure out how Pit fights and can exploit his tactics, you're on the right track to victory.

It feels like you'll never know what he's gonna do next, so my strategy is just wait for his moves and trick him to do predictable stuff. I'm good at adapting and really patient and defensive player, so that's no problem to me. Really liked this reply~

 

[Wintropy]

It feels like you'll never know what he's gonna do next, so my strategy is just wait for his moves and trick him to do predictable stuff. I'm good at adapting and really patient and defensive player, so that's no problem to me. Really liked this reply~

Yeah, a good Pit (as with any player) will adapt and keep you guessing, but there are inevitably going to be a few tricks that you'll see a lot of.

I'm guilty of it myself. It's just hard to shake off old habits. I don't care if it's predictable, d-throw -> u-smash at 0% works, gat dang it!

 

[FrankTheStud]

Back air back air back air back air. Don't be afraid to set up the wall of pain when approaching Pit. Gimping with side+b is possible with his predictable recovery, but be careful not to go too deep with it or you'll end up gimping yourself. When you get in, don't let him get out. Keep the pressure on him as long as you can when you're inside, or he'll try to space you out more.
Don't be afraid to engage with hopped pills into grabs or down smashes, either. Should he down+b, you shield and punish, as that move has crazy amounts of lag. Side+B is annoying because of it's sheer power, but if you start to read it, block it and beat him down with a fair, fsmash, or dsmash.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Back air back air back air back air. Don't be afraid to set up the wall of pain when approaching Pit. Gimping with side+b is possible with his predictable recovery, but be careful not to go too deep with it or you'll end up gimping yourself. When you get in, don't let him get out. Keep the pressure on him as long as you can when you're inside, or he'll try to space you out more.
Don't be afraid to engage with hopped pills into grabs or down smashes, either. Should he down+b, you shield and punish, as that move has crazy amounts of lag. Side+B is annoying because of it's sheer power, but if you start to read it, block it and beat him down with a fair, fsmash, or dsmash.

Thanks for the reply~
The wall of pain is so good against him, we can frustrate the player if he's not allowed to get in, so it's also a great tool to get inside his head.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Which customs help the most in this MU?

I usually rock fast capsule, one-two, gust sheet and the infallible soaring tornado o' death.

 

[Speed Boost]

Which customs help the most in this MU?

I usually rock fast capsule, one-two, gust sheet and the infallible soaring tornado o' death.

Yeah, that's probably Doc's best set if you are good at mashing Down B. Otherwise I would use the default Up B so you can edgeguard his susceptible recovery and still get back.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Which customs help the most in this MU?

I usually rock fast capsule, one-two, gust sheet and the infallible soaring tornado o' death.

2312 / 2311 I think

Soaring tornado will help a lot at recovering and killing but it's a little risky if misses, the regular tornado kills offstage and catches Pit's upB but he can gimp you more easily.

I think it depends on the player and his playstyle.