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Squirtle Sourspot N-Air knockdown percents (finally finished!)

TheReflexWonder

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Something that I figured would be helpful is sourspot N-Air knockdown percentages. Below a certain percentage, a sourspot N-Air won't put a character into freefall, but at or above that percent, they just fall at a really low angle that is terribly difficult to react to. Basically, it sets up for jab lock at KO percentages without being very risky.

Unfortunately, it appears that when the opponent DIs upward, they have enough time to jump/airdodge/whatever, and that goes for fatigued Squirtle, too. That said, if they DI in any direction but up (including no DI at all), they will fall over and be forced to tech. It should be good for catching people off-guard.

Here are the numbers:

Lime shows the number for an unstaled, unfatigued Squirtle.
Yellow show the STARTING number for an unstaled, somewhat fatigued (80% power) Squirtle. Note that this number will gradually increase as time goes on, so you should generally try to aim a little higher than this, to account for extra fatigue.
Red shows the number for an unstaled, completely fatigued (70% power) Squirtle.

:mario2: Mario: 74%, 91%, 99%
:luigi2: Luigi: 74%, 91%, 99%
:peach: Peach: 71%, 87%, 95%
:bowser2: Bowser: 83%, 102%, 111%
:dk2: Donkey Kong: 82%, 101%, 110%
:diddy: Diddy Kong: 72%, 88%, 96%
:yoshi2: Yoshi: 77%, 95%, 103%
:wario: Wario: 78%, 96%, 104%
:link2: Link: 78%, 96%, 104%
:zelda: Zelda: 68%, 84%, 91%
:sheik: Sheik: 68%, 84%, 91%
:ganondorf: Ganondorf: 79%, 96%, 105%
:toonlink: Toon Link: 72%, 88%, 96%
:samus2: Samus: 78%, 96%, 104%
:zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit Samus: 67%, 82%, 89%
:pit: Pit: 72%, 88%, 96%
:popo: Ice Climbers: 71%, 87%, 95%
:rob: R.O.B.: 77%, 95%, 103%
:kirby2: Kirby: 66%, 81%, 89%
:metaknight: Meta Knight: 66%, 81%, 89%
:dedede: King Dedede: 79%, 97%, 105%
:olimar: Olimar: 69%, 85%, 92%
:fox: Fox: 67%, 82%, 89%
:falco: Falco: 68%, 84%, 91%
:wolf: Wolf: 75%, 92%, 100%
:falcon: Falcon: 77%, 95%, 103%
:pikachu: Pikachu: 66%, 81%, 89%
:squirtle: Squirtle: 64%, 79%, 85%
:ivysaur: Ivysaur: 75%, 92%, 100%
:charizard: Charizard: 79%, 97%, 105%
:lucario: Lucario: 74%, 91%, 99%
:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff: 62%, 76%, 83%
:marth: Marth: 70%, 86%, 93%
:ike: Ike: 76%, 93%, 83%
:ness2: Ness: 72%, 88%, 96%
:lucas: Lucas: 72%, 88%, 96%
:gw: Mr. Game and Watch: 65%, 80%, 87%
:snake: Snake: 80%, 98%, 107%
:sonic: Sonic: 72%, 88%, 96%
 

Geenareeno

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So 66% would be the best percentage to do it at right? And what part of Squirtle's nair is the sourspot? Also is there a general frame data thread where I could find the uhh... The frames for when you stand up out of a "helpless sitting on the ground because I missed my tech" state?
 

TheReflexWonder

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So 66% would be the best percentage to do it at right? And what part of Squirtle's nair is the sourspot? Also is there a general frame data thread where I could find the uhh... The frames for when you stand up out of a "helpless sitting on the ground because I missed my tech" state?
In order--

Yes.

You see how Squirtle sways from side to side during the N-Air? Anytime after the first "swing."

Not sure.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Lime shows the number for an unstaled, unfatigued Squirtle.
Yellow show the STARTING number for an unstaled, somewhat fatigued (80% power) Squirtle. Note that this number will gradually increase as time goes on, so you should generally try to aim a little higher than this, to account for extra fatigue.
Red shows the number for an unstaled, completely fatigued (70% power) Squirtle.

:mario2: Mario: 74%, 91%, 99%
:luigi2: Luigi: 74%, 91%, 99%
:peach: Peach: 71%, 87%, 95%
:bowser2: Bowser: 83%, 102%, 111%
:dk2: Donkey Kong: 82%, 101%, 110%
:diddy: Diddy Kong: 72%, 88%, 96%
:yoshi2: Yoshi: 77%, 95%, 103%
:wario: Wario: 78%, 96%, 104%
:link2: Link: 78%, 96%, 104%
:zelda: Zelda: 68%, 84%, 91%
:sheik: Sheik: 68%, 84%, 91%
:ganondorf: Ganondorf: 79%, 96%, 105%
:toonlink: Toon Link: 72%, 88%, 96%
:samus2: Samus: 78%, 96%, 104%
:zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit Samus: 67%, 82%, 89%
:pit: Pit: 72%, 88%, 96%
:popo: Ice Climbers: 71%, 87%, 95%
:rob: R.O.B.: 77%, 95%, 103%
:kirby2: Kirby: 66%, 81%, 89%
:metaknight: Meta Knight: 66%, 81%, 89%
:dedede: King Dedede: 79%, 97%, 105%
:olimar: Olimar: 69%, 85%, 92%
:fox: Fox: 67%, 82%, 89%
:falco: Falco: 68%, 84%, 91%
:wolf: Wolf: 75%, 92%, 100%
:falcon: Falcon: 77%, 95%, 103%
:pikachu: Pikachu: 66%, 81%, 89%
:squirtle: Squirtle: 64%, 79%, 85%
:ivysaur: Ivysaur: 75%, 92%, 100%
:charizard: Charizard: 79%, 97%, 105%
:lucario: Lucario: 74%, 91%, 99%
:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff: 62%, 76%, 83%
:marth: Marth: 70%, 86%, 93%
:ike: Ike: 76%, 93%, 83%
:ness2: Ness: 72%, 88%, 96%
:lucas: Lucas: 72%, 88%, 96%
:gw: Mr. Game and Watch: 65%, 80%, 87%
:snake: Snake: 80%, 98%, 107%
:sonic: Sonic: 72%, 88%, 96%
 

Steeler

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that's delicious. assuming you have a decent bit of stage room, this should lead to a KO.

these numbers are before the nair right?

good work reflex.
 

TheReflexWonder

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that's delicious. assuming you have a decent bit of stage room, this should lead to a KO.

these numbers are before the nair right?

good work reflex.
Yeah, before the N-Air.

I started working on the numbers late at night and had to go to sleep. I'll try to get the rest later today.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

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First off, NEATO.

I fooled around with this a long time ago. One way I found to land the nair was full hop and kinda fall on them with a nair. (Like nair on the way down)

Auto canceled nair works but is kinda awkward sometimes.

This works really well on any level with slants such as parts of halberd or ps1. (when you hit them "up" the slant, it leaves less time to tech/do something)

And on Delfino or PS1 you can infinite against the wall/ledge. (You can switch from jab lock to ftilts too to wrack damage faster.)

Cool stuff Luis.
 

Tesh

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I didn't even know fatigue happened gradually.....

How long has that been known?
 

TheReflexWonder

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CURSES--This proxy server changes all apostrophes in my text to "backslash-apostrophe", so editing is bad right now. I'll do it when I get home. :/
 

Steeler

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i thought you were on a phone or something haha

excellent point about the slopes miles, proud of you mijo.
 

CoonTail

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First off, NEATO.

I fooled around with this a long time ago. One way I found to land the nair was full hop and kinda fall on them with a nair. (Like nair on the way down)

Auto canceled nair works but is kinda awkward sometimes.

This works really well on any level with slants such as parts of halberd or ps1. (when you hit them "up" the slant, it leaves less time to tech/do something)

And on Delfino or PS1 you can infinite against the wall/ledge. (You can switch from jab lock to ftilts too to wrack damage faster.)

Cool stuff Luis.
Word miles I remembered you talking about this when everyone was talkin about n-air through platforms when players were shielding to get this awkward freefall.

Also the full hop method you mentioned does work real well too.

-Luis I been checking out the n-air and it really seems like any of the ending portion of the move will cause this to happen....it kinda reminds me of Ivy's n-air spike in that if you hit with the bottom of Ivy is spike's just about everytime, but this is easier lol
 

Aposl

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squirtle should be able to put massive work on snake now, even more than before XD
 

TheReflexWonder

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Each character is at a high enough percent in all cases where a slightly-charged U-Smash after the jab lock will most certainly KO.
 

T-block

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Awesome job, Reflex. The percents are surprisingly high actually...

I don't think a slightly charged u-smash will KO Snake at 120% at full fatigue though =\
 

TheReflexWonder

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Awesome job, Reflex. The percents are surprisingly high actually...

I don't think a slightly charged u-smash will KO Snake at 120% at full fatigue though =\
Hmm...Perhaps you're right. Probably wouldn't KO Ivysaur, either, due to type disadvantage. Oh well. It can work at higher percents, too--You're not going to have the exact number every time.
 

Aposl

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i said about snake because squirtle can almost combo snake from 0 to 80 lol
 

typh

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sorry someone told me that :yeah boi: existed and i had to go to the most serious thread i could find to post it
 
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