Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[TheReflexWonder]

Cleaning this up!

I'm gonna try to go through this thread and find useful information said about each move in order to lump it together in the OP. This way, the information doesn't get lost to people who aren't checking the thread once a week.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Do I have to spill my sexy squirtle strats?

 

[Charizard92]

Squirtle is the only character I commonly play as that has combos outside his set a combo (told ya there were combos in brawl).
combo 1: ftilt, then start the typical a combo
combo 2: throw upwards, follow, uair, and if you can, uair.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Do I have to spill my sexy squirtle strats?

Yes. It is of utmost importance and essential that you do.

 

[Onxy]

Well, I can see not many people care for Squirtle - considering he is high tier practically. Since people feel that it is necessary to throw Ivy bottom tier with Charizard, people talk more about them - at least I feel they should.

As for Squirturtle, use Dgrab at high percents when your fatigued to switch - works for me at least.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Alright, let's nip this in the bud before it sparks a ****storm.

There are no tiers yet.

Squirtle is not high tier, Ivysaur and Charizard are not bottom tier. There is no reason to believe any of this, since the game has been out for less than 5 months, and PT has not gotten much tournament play at all. Let's just discuss Squirtle in this thread.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Ok. I shall offer my sexy secrets.

Dair: completely underestimated, but this move is **** in a bottle. With a simple short hop immediatly followed by it, you have enough time to complete the full move. When you position it right, ur opponent is flown sideways. This is perfect for hopping off the edge and getting the special hit. If the hit doesn't get a side screen KO off the bat, then follow it with a ledge guard, basically a guaranteed kill against any char (cept mehbeh snake and pit, huge recoveries.).

 

[Onxy]

Alright, let's nip this in the bud before it sparks a ****storm.

There are no tiers yet.

Squirtle is not high tier, Ivysaur and Charizard are not bottom tier. There is no reason to believe any of this, since the game has been out for less than 5 months, and PT has not gotten much tournament play at all. Let's just discuss Squirtle in this thread.

Yes, I know there is no tier lest yet, but if you look at anyones tier list in the tier discussion, Squirtle is mid-high, and Ivy and Charizard is bottom - always. I'm happy there is no tier list yet, so maybe I won't be dissapointed.....yet

Hydroplanning doesn't work so well for me, do you people use it that often effectively - 'cause I obviously don't.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Yes, I know there is no tier lest yet, but if you look at anyones tier list in the tier discussion, Squirtle is mid-high, and Ivy and Charizard is bottom - always. I'm happy there is no tier list yet, so maybe I won't be dissapointed.....yet

Hydroplanning doesn't work so well for me, do you people use it that often effectively - 'cause I obviously don't.

Often, no. Effectively, yes.

Hydroplanning is my trump card, I don't use it until I'm positive it's lethal ('round 120%). When I first started using it, I thought it was the shiz, so I used it all the time, but a key problem with that is that it gets waaaaay too predictable. So I keep it as my little surprise until the time is right.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Yeah, mainly I just use it to get in with a jab, and very very rarely I do the upsmash trick. It is very predictable and once you get past the "omgz dis is not the way other characterz move lol" phase, you realize there's better options for Squirtle.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

But of course just because I save my hydroplan, it doesn't mean that I hold back all shell shifting moves in general. I love to shellshift to grab and get behind my opponents. It's great for setting up Dsmashes to send opponents flying off the edge. (which of course can be followed by a Dair)

 

[Ryos4]

I personally dont like squirtle. Out of the 3 he is the hardest to get a quick and easy KO. Mostly for me, squirtle revolves around aerials, combos and Dthrows. His smashes have too much start up lag for me, aside from his up smash.

As for who is the best pokemon. I would have to say charizard has the most potential.

 

[Retro Gaming]

There's one of these for both the other pokemon, I figured Squirtle needed one too.

Pope, great job making sure none of the Pokemon feel left out. <3

Considering how much Squirtle love is usually on this forum, I can't believe this isn't practically over-running with posts on how cute and adorable he is and how that will win you the match.

Anyway, Pope's absolutely correct in the first post, but I would refrain from the second one too much, especially since it can lead to Squirtle's number one problem: getting grabbed.

Anyway, here are some other approach options:

Shell shifted Dtilt- The pop up is pretty significant at higher percents, and can lead to you getting a Fair or whatever you want to do in the air.

I've also realized that you can do ANYTHING out of shell-shift, including Utilt. Nice versus Spacies and heavy alternates.

By the way, you can RAR out of shell-shift, too. I think its probably the hottest thing I've ever seen, and is the primary way I aproach (With Bair).

As far as the Dair someone was describing, it provides some pretty good shield pressure if you jump back and forth between an opponent. It'll probably shield poke, eventually.

And finally, Nair is a great move, especially since it has multiple hit boxes. Method of choice to remove Pikmin effectively.

 

[Anonymoose Jones]

Squirtle is actually my favorite of the three. He's fast as hell, can combo very easily, and his down throw is probably one of the most powerful throws in the game. Sure, he has pretty useless B moves, but his melee makes up for it.

 

[Onxy]

I wouldn't say the B is useless, 'cause it could lead you to a free Fair or whatever - charge it up just in case. As for squirtle being fast, yes, but not so much for his movment speed - which really comes necessary.

 

[wavelucas]

There's one of these for both the other pokemon, I figured Squirtle needed one too. I'll admit he is my weakest pokemon, and I regard him as the worst of the three, but he is by no means bad (that's just how sexy the other two are).

I'll start by mentioning the main approach tactics I use, and you all take it from there:

- SHFFL'd bairs are my main mode of applying pressure and approaching. I decided early on that I would hold back on fair as much as possible to save it for KOs. Bair is the safer of the two, as well as the weakest, It has more range which coupled with having no lag makes it very easy to use in a fashion which does not get you punished on block or dodge. It can be spammed well, stops some projectiles (though I wouldn't depend too heavily on this), deals decent damage, and is easy to follow. The tail provides Squirtle some of the range he otherwise lacks.

- Shellshifted jabs. I do not see this being used at all, and it is great. It works the same as IC's wavedashed jabs in Melee, in that they basically provide a quick, safe entry (that's what she said) and lead well into grabs, or just finishing the jab combo (that's what... she... said?).

These are just two points I wanted to share, you can all post alternatives to be evaluated against mine concerning their overall effectiveness, as well as general tactics in other areas.

Squirtle IS very good in the air,and has a great upsmash combo starter/finishing move, but he is generally lacking attack power in his special move, and the super armor during withdraw id the only real bonus you get out of them.

 

[chubas]

Have you noticed that Squirtle's jab has a high chance of tripping the opponent, just like Pikachu's? It doesn't affect the combo, but when the opponent trips on the second hit of the jab I tend to grab instead for more damage.
How do you guys handle this?

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Have you noticed that Squirtle's jab has a high chance of tripping the opponent, just like Pikachu's? It doesn't affect the combo, but when the opponent trips on the second hit of the jab I tend to grab instead for more damage.
How do you guys handle this?

Ugh, I hate the trip on the 2nd hit. They always get behind me, then I get an axe in my head.

 

[mickeyk90]

at low %
FF fair + grab works

 

[Pichu Sensei]

One of my combos

Fair + Nair to land + AAA + sh Dair + sh Dair (if the first dair knocks them off the edge), ledge guard.

 

[Kirby Redux]

Anyone use his dtilt a lot? Its one of my favorite squirtle moves.

 

[infernovia]

One of the things I am very interested in is the trips statistic. Apparently when the opponent enters the flying off the feet animation (the animation when you send them sailing) except they actually don't leave their feet, you have a chance to trip them.

Oh and squirtle has super armor in Nair apparently.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Anyone use his dtilt a lot? Its one of my favorite squirtle moves.

I try to use all of squirtles moves, 'cept water gun. Dtilt is one of my favorite moves along with Nair and Dair.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Water gun kills Ness and Lucas' recoveries, and can screw up some others like Pit, Fox and Falco, etc. Just saying.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Time for more of Pichu's sexy secrets.

Nair: Beautiful BEAUTIFUL move. Not only does this move do some decent damage, but has almost no landing lag, which makes it a beasty air combo finisher, and you can follow it up with a AAA combo or a smash. It is also a very defensive move, you can use it rapidly over and over again. I've hardly seen this move used in the video's I've watched. I wub Nair, it makes me happy.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Short hop, jump towards your opponent while charging water gun, and hit them with the froth. Don't use it all the time, but its a pretty easy 12% and can cause some surprise (And therefore set you up for something else).

And yeah, if you charge it then it will beat a lot of recoveries out. If you can aim it.

 

[ShellShifter]

I used Squirtle's Water Gun on an Ike today. It worked beautifully. Just charge it up when he is going under the stage towards the edge. Then, fire away once he goes upwards. He should be far enough to miss the edge. Still, I'd use this move sparingly. Its a cool move to push your opponent away if you need space to shellshift or something. So what grabbing move do you guys use at lower percents? For me, depends on the position, but usually forward or backthrow. Upthrow into double uair is nice though.

 

[Tien2500]

Squirtle's throws are pretty much equally good. So lie you said its pretty much all based on position. Of course the only exception is the Dthrow which should be saved for a KO or a switching opportunity.

 

[Charizard92]

I wouldn't say the B is useless, 'cause it could lead you to a free Fair or whatever - charge it up just in case. As for squirtle being fast, yes, but not so much for his movment speed - which really comes necessary.

I think Squirtle might be the next Jigglypuff. He is much better in the air than he is on the ground. also, Withdraw might actually help with this.

 

[chubas]

Utilt is a nice move, but I don't know exactly when to pull it off. Cannot connect it after Fairs, and I usually don't expect people to get over Squirtle just for being Utilted.

 

[Mentok the Mind Taker]

I find that Fairs are only good for edgeguard, so saving them does not really help as much. Squirt's whole game for me is dthrow or utilting and tricking the opponent into using an airdodge as I follow. this usually ends in a nair or fair punishment. on the ground, i like ftilt/jab spam, shellshifted utilt, and SH fair. opponents tend to try to shieldgrab it, but when done right squirt will pass through to the behind of the opponent, allowing a bair as they foolishly try to shieldgrab.

I find Watergun is only good for team games. My favorite tactic is to have a heavy hitter partner like ddd or Ike charge fsmash, and use water gun to wavedash them into the opponents. I once teamed with a Mario fludd spammer with hilarious results.

 

[OrieL]

Personally I use squirtle the same way as Sonic mains use the "You're too slow taunt" to annoy if i'm not shellshifting, I'm jumping around... hit them with an aerial and jump back out. they'll get annoyed and start messing up. But be sure to mix it up; sometimes come in with a fair and then the next time try fair + jabs, then a grab and etc. Squirtle is mindgame madness.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

You can use utilt when people is on your side, it throws them up setting them for another utilt. usmash or uair, maybe after a shellshift is good using utilit, but i like to use when an enemy is colse to me, they think i wont do anything, try to attack me and i quickly utilt, its kinda risky, but utilts speed makes up for it

 

[Pegasus Knight]

One of the reasons I switched to Pokemon Trainer (was playing the fake-Ike Sakurai gave us) is Squirtle's neutral-B, Water Gun. I've been fond of Mario's FLUDD, and even scored several kills with it.

I have yet to score a single one with Squirtle's, however. Even against targets I'd normally consider easy shots for this with Mario's FLUDD (Ike doing Quick Draw or Aether, Lucas and Ness during PK Thunder, and so on). I seem to barely even nudge them.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there some 'trick' I need to keep in mind when using Squirtle's version?

 

[Adriel]

One of the reasons I switched to Pokemon Trainer (was playing the fake-Ike Sakurai gave us) is Squirtle's neutral-B, Water Gun. I've been fond of Mario's FLUDD, and even scored several kills with it.

I have yet to score a single one with Squirtle's, however. Even against targets I'd normally consider easy shots for this with Mario's FLUDD (Ike doing Quick Draw or Aether, Lucas and Ness during PK Thunder, and so on). I seem to barely even nudge them.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there some 'trick' I need to keep in mind when using Squirtle's version?

I don't know much about Mario 'cept that he has a cape and Squirtle doesn't.

Look at this combo video by paOol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHiXtIpH4Yo

It has some amazing water gun kills at the end and has convinced me to keep water gun charged. I believe the best time to use water gun is against horizontal recoveries such as Ike's and Luigi's side b and when your opponent is using their second jump so that they only gain vertical distance. Water gun also destroys Ness's and Lucas's recoveries for obvious reasons, and it might also work against Fox and Falco is you're quick enough.

Another way I have thought of using it is after down-smashing your opponent off the stage. This makes it easy for you to hit them with water gun and also easier to edgeguard.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

The only time I ever use water gun is an uncharged one. I find that most of the time, using a charged one in an attempt to edge guard is pointless, and usually ends up in a stalemate, so I stick to uncharged ones to rack up some damage.

 

[Retro Gaming]

So I was poking through the "True Combo's" of Brawl thread, and I got curious what had been submitted for the Pokemon Trainer. Charizard and Ivysaur had some pretty substandard stuff, but I saw this among the Squirtle list:

Inescapable
B-air > Jab x3/F-tilt (0-61%)

I won't have access to my Wii for a good week, so I'd appreciate it if someone actually tested both variations of this for me. If it's truly inescapable then my opinion of Squirtle will be raised, even if only a small degree.

EDIT: Cut me some slack, I read this late at night, and I see how obvious it is, now. What I was trying to ask if you could loop this combo. I highly doubt it, but does someone want to try it, anyway?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

So I was poking through the "True Combo's" of Brawl thread, and I got curious what had been submitted for the Pokemon Trainer. Charizard and Ivysaur had some pretty substandard stuff, but I saw this among the Squirtle list:

Inescapable
B-air > Jab x3/F-tilt (0-61%)

I won't have access to my Wii for a good week, so I'd appreciate it if someone actually tested both variations of this for me. If it's truly inescapable then my opinion of Squirtle will be raised, even if only a small degree.

EDIT: Cut me some slack, I read this late at night, and I see how obvious it is, now. What I was trying to ask if you could loop this combo. I highly doubt it, but does someone want to try it, anyway?

Highly unlikely. There is not enough hitstun in f-tilt, and I'm pretty sure the third jab sends your opponent too far. Worth testing, though.

 

[Ghetto Soldier]

Squirtle is the only character I commonly play as that has combos outside his set a combo (told ya there were combos in brawl).
combo 1: ftilt, then start the typical a combo
combo 2: throw upwards, follow, uair, and if you can, uair.

wait you can also d-throw fair fair short hop fair its a wall of pain man lol

 

[PkTrainerCris]

I think that waterfall is kinda underrated, is a very good move for squirtle, and i see people just use it to recover( or even use withdraw to recover, i learned the hard way i shouldnt do that when i hit the stage on final destination and died with 45 %) The poimt is that waterfall is good at ofensive to, because it has nice priority, multihit, decent damage and a knockback that doenst kill but keeps the oponent on a safe distance, also, its squirtles most ranged move.