Starting invincibility stupid?

[chubkins]

Hey hey guys,

Its ya boi Chebs and I wanted to settle a debate with my friend. As a seasoned veteran of every single smash game, I am willing to say that the 120 frames (or 2 seconds) of invincibility of exiting the starting platform is a fair, balanced, and fun part of this game. Please post any evidence to support either a counter-claim or proof that my option is correct.

 

[Narpas_sword]

You made the statement. Provide your own supporting evidence.

 

[chubkins]

I did already I just wanted to see what you guys had

 

[Narpas_sword]

... Here.
Put your supporting evidence here.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

If you're making a positive statement, the burden of proof is on your side.

Subjectively, I don't see much of a problem having that period of invincibility, as it's always been. I'm pretty much neutral to it being or not being however.

 

[chubkins]

Aight aight here is what I sent him

Justification: First of all, both of you have the potential to get 3 invincibility periods, note potential. Just because someone wins 2-0 doesn't mean that the game wasn't fair. Also, this has been in EVERY SINGLE SMASH GAME. That may not be important, but I feel it is a rather large part of the game. Here are the stats. (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Invincibility) Here too: (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Revival_platform) Some notes: I know that you have a problem with starting invincibility, and here are the specifics: 2 seconds of invincibility after leaving the platform, or 120 frames. It was wierd: This was basically all I could find on the wiki on this subject, kinda interesting. Couldn't really find forum posts about it either. I guess my natural reflex after starting invincibility is just dodge and/or run away until the 2 seconds is up, instead of attacking the invincible person. My advice to you, is to do that when on the defensive and also kind of use the time to gather your thoughts and plan a strategy about how to fight and use the 2 short seconds to your advantage as much as possible.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Your only supporting evidence is an appeal to tradition.

You aren't stating any reason why you think it's good.

 

[chubkins]

why do you think im here?

 

[Narpas_sword]

To get people to do your homework for you?
That's not how it works.
If you want to generate discussion you need to provide discussion.

Why do you think it's a good mechanic to have?
What benefit does it provide?
Why do you think it is implemented?

 

[chubkins]

Thanks for the prompts:

I believe that this mechanic adds to the game in a positive way. One reason for this is that it counters spawncamping. Also, the short time (2 seconds) allows for a balance between being safe for a short while and also kind of adding a sort of strategy: waiting until the perfect moment to strike.
It does take patience, (even for just 2 seconds) but if you decide to hit in this time you will be punished severely. Even if you hit them in the 121st frame, you will land a well-deserved hit.

Is that good?

 

[Narpas_sword]

And why is 2 seconds an ideal time?
What makes it better than an increase or decrease in that time?
What would be negative about 1.5 Seconds?
What would be negative about 3 Seconds?

 

[MillerDaLite]

I think the time should be tied to how long it hakes the slowest character to get from platform to the furthest point of the biggest legal stage

 

[Narpas_sword]

I think the time should be tied to how long it hakes the slowest character to get from platform to the furthest point of the biggest legal stage

Why?

 

[MillerDaLite]

because under the assumption that it's not a bad idea to have it then avoiding it should shouldn't be supper simple.

 

[Narpas_sword]

So you think it's purpose is to provide the spawner with an offensive advantage? Rather than a defence upon entering?

 

[MillerDaLite]

Can't really say what its purpose is but what it does is provide you with stage control when you spawn and gives the opponent an opportunity to practice running away which does make for some interesting interaction.

 

[chubkins]

Thanks man!

 

[chubkins]

I think the time should be tied to how long it hakes the slowest character to get from platform to the furthest point of the biggest legal stage

That's kinda what I was thinking about. I think it is roughly based on jigglypuff on FD or something

 

[InfinityCollision]

Jiggs actually isn't the slowest character in 64, and it's worth noting that FD only appears in the Master Hand fight in that game.

 

[chubkins]

okay am sorry gooby pls

*cri*

 

[Narpas_sword]

Jiggs actually isn't the slowest character in 64, and it's worth noting that FD only appears in the Master Hand fight in that game.

who's talking about 64?

 

[InfinityCollision]

Respawn invincibility has been constant throughout the series, ie was first set in 64 and has not changed since. Thus, whatever argument was first laid out for respawn mechanics was made at that time and has been held acceptable in every succeeding iteration of the game.

 

[Tomaster]

I'd say it's a good thing cuz it gives the person with invincibility the chance to start his/her own offense and it makes it so the other person learns to play defensively as well as offensively, instead of just trying to get 0 to death combos every stock. Basically it provides more strategy. Idk if 2 seconds is ideal but idc....

 

[chubkins]

The question is: Should you care, and does it really matter what anyone thinks as long as its fair?

 

[CORY]

Honestly, it matters less whether it's fair or not, as long as the community at large accepts and is happy with it, much like stage lists, etc...

Which basically means, if most of the players likelike how it works, it's considered fair. Really only applicable for changeable attributes.

 

[himemiya]

It brings the match back to neutral start, plus remove the invinsibility then the player would get punished and left open for dying.

 

[chubkins]

This thread is finally going well

gosh

 

[8kray1]

Okay so I know this is an old thread, but I think the spawnpoint for the players should be on the ground already and on the opposite side of the opponent. Otherwise the spawn timer is fine and it's balance if each player is vulnerable when they are close enough to attack. Maybe a radius rule instead of time. Lemme know you stand.