The Lost DK Knowledge

[Ripple]

Ok guys, I'm getting a little tired of seeing DKs do some awful decisions in certain situations. I've tried telling you guys about some of these things and how they work but I guess you guys need a refresher course. Ill keep updating this with anything that is suggested that you see people never doing but should.

1. Cargo hold > up throw > up air

Dear god, you have no idea how awesome this option is until you experience it. Seriously if you get a grab anywhere on someone that is somewhat heavy of falls fast from like 15% - 100% I want to see DKs throwing the opponent up from cargo hold. *don't jump and up throw, just up throw from the ground.* It leads to a GUARANTEED upair/bair.

Yeah, guaranteed.

DK has such a fast rising double jump (3rd-4th fastest) that DK can hit them before most characters can do anything. Characters can't. Use specials by the time so that eliminates one option. If they try and attack via dair, they will most likely get hit before their dair comes out because most dairs in this game or slow. And if they try and air dodge it becomes a frame trap. Once they air dodge, buffer another upair or bair because it is guaranteed to hit.

Congrats your match up vs snake/ike/ddd/zard/ivy/bowser/falcon now just got a million times earlier.

2. Cargo >jump>fthrow> DJ>up air

Unlike the one before this is not a frame trap, this is completely guaranteed if they DI toward you ( or UP! ). This works on more of the cast than the one above also but if they DI away or if up air misses then there is no follow up.

3. Shield drop > d-tilt as an alternative to shield grab.

Better range and punishes tons of moves that grab can't reach. Such as ICs back air and snakes f-tilt.

4. Pivot grab.

DKs gets like a zillion times better when its pivoted. It actually becomes disjointed and can grab tornado (rarely, but it can at least).

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Don't know why anyone hasn't posted on this but this is good stuff. Thanks Ripple!

 

[Ripple]

because this place has been abandoned

 

[DtJ S2n]

I meant to say good post Ripple but I forgot. It's kinda like the Advancement of the Metagame thread but I like this anyways. It'd be great if everybody could contribute something. I don't want to soil this thread with kinda gimmicky tricks and keep it basic but I dunno.

I guess I'll say that Cargo Stage Spike is still great.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I was playing around with the first option in the OP a lot this weekend.

DEAR GOD.

This is so ****. I got so many people at this con-tournament with this it was hilarious.

 

[Attila the Hun]

This might be a stupid question, but can you just press the C-stick up to throw them without jumping, or do you have to do a really light u-throw?

 

[Ripple]

glad to see someone actually taking my advice

 

[DtJ S2n]

@Attila, I think you can do that, but if you're careful it's not difficult to do it with just the control stick + A. I really do hate how the cargo grab makes you have default controls during it. It's like they forgot how cool it is that you can change your controls.

Also this reminds me that I focused on making d-tilt as a punish work and it really does and it is really great low percents. It really is "lost knowledge" but D-tilt is incredibly good at taking opponents into the ~40% range where we start to wreck people. The d-tilt (x1/x2) + down-b combo is so good and easy. It's worth mentioning that U-tilt and Jab are both great punishes as well (frame 5 on both, jab leads into shenanigans, u-tilt can kill or juggle).

I've been having trouble getting cargo u-throw to u-air to be as guaranteed as you say it is. At a smashfest yesterday it was really effective mostly, but Judo's Snake has been DIing it and double jumping away. That's still a great position, but it needs to be noted that they're not just going to fall into you every time.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I think that's why its important that you switch between the Cargo > Up Air and the Cargo > Jump > F-Throw > DJ> Up Air.

I mean I think its pretty cool that Cargo can give us so many options so we might as well mix it up. I mean abusing the first tactic is pretty legit but its important to switch it up. I will playing around with the second options a bit more.

I really love how DK has all these guaranteed setups and frame traps. <3

 

[Goast]

I must say for a player who grabs a lot I was definitely guilty of taking pivot grabbing for granted in general. Started putting it into my game a couple of weeks ago and I feel a whole new world of options.

 

[Attila the Hun]

I just pivot all the time.

U-tilt juggle at low percents to pivot grab is amazinggg. That, and D-throw to pivot grab is fun, toooo.

 

[Makke]

.................

 

[Dan-Da-Man]

On account of using 3 other characters besides DK for a while now, mine has developed a lot of bad habits. Thanks for postin this, was a nice refresher & reminder of mix-ups I haven't been doing as of late

 

[Neon!]

Random stuff Dk's need to do more:

Dthrow CG on falco, fox and zss, works at least twice in a row at 0% followed by ftilt for 25% ish

Up-b/ down-b for covering landing options since they both beat air-dodges

 

[crifer]

Up-b/ down-b for covering landing options since they both beat air-dodges

^this.
Even though, if you´re unlucky, downB´s active hurtbox can not hit landing characters (happened to me) it´s really awesome against characters like snake who often land with B reversals. You cover a lot of ground and you´re not in the danger getting blown up by nades :D

 

[holyv]

also that back air you can get on ike's aether

That KILL the matchups because dk can throw ike easily offstage with like a back throw

 

[SaveMeJebus]

DK has horrible landing options so when you know your opponent is waiting for you on the ground, don't do anything and instead, footstool him. This gives you an extra landing option and another chance at landing on the ground.

 

[-LzR-]

Footstooling is a really underused landing option. I should also mess with it a little bit more. Especially against Falco when I'm out of jumps and am at cg %.
Not sure how DK does it though, he is absolutely terrible at landing :

 

[DtJ S2n]

DK has horrible landing options so when you know your opponent is waiting for you on the ground, don't do anything and instead, footstool him. This gives you an extra landing option and another chance at landing on the ground.

This, and you also have to remember that you can Side-b or Up-b before you land. Side-b will ruin greedy player's life, and up-b is a relatively safe and very fast option that might just net you free percent. It's better than just landing into a grab.

 

[Ripple]

DK does not have landing problems against anyone other than MK.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I would argue Marth. And Sheik.

And man Ripple. I used to be the cool guy with Cubone avatars.

 

[Neon!]

I'm not sure what color to paint my DK plaster piece. Any suggestions?

 

[DtJ S2n]

And suddenly lost knowledge became the social thread. Move color discussion to the social please .
Also obviously Martin Luther Kong.

 

[Neon!]

lol I actually thought i was in the social, oops.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

DK does not have landing problems against anyone other than MK.

DDD

10DDDs

 

[DtJ S2n]

DK has a landing problem vs DDD if he decides to land next to DDD. The problem here is that why would any character do that? We have the mobility and range to avoid that situation.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

DK has a landing problem vs DDD if he decides to land next to DDD. The problem here is that why would any character do that? We have the mobility and range to avoid that situation.

DK can't really land since he can't (he can but it's not really a good idea) Wavebounce his b moves. if he is trying to land against a DDD, the DDD can just walk to whereever the DK is going to land and just punish him

 

[Ripple]

DK can't really land since he can't (he can but it's not really a good idea) Wavebounce his b moves. if he is trying to land against a DDD, the DDD can just walk to whereever the DK is going to land and just punish him

he can wavebounce a punch and on a shield it is unpunishable even if spaced halfway correctly.

also if he right under us he needs to guess whether we are going to side-b his head or just up-b to a platform.

stop posting in here.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I'm talking about landing on stage when there are no platforms near you.

 

[Ripple]

when isn't there a platoform near you? on FD? never gonna play there anyway

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Smashville's platform is on the other side, Castle Siege's third transformation, Delfino Plaza

 

[Neon!]

It's not too hard to cover Dk's landing options in general but having a fully charged punch and platforms makes it much easier for us to land.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Smashville's platform is on the other side, Castle Siege's third transformation, Delfino Plaza

Our up-b lasts long enough and goes for enough for us to make it to the platform(or edge) without much trouble if we're using that option. Our natural airspeed lets it make it to it if we're reasonably high up or have a double jump... and if we have no double jump and are only slightly above the ground I have no idea how we got in that position and we ****ed up really badly.

Castle Siege's third transformation and certain parts of Delfino are a pain. Not as big of a problem on Delfino, the water is our friend and it's plenty big for us to just avoid combat all together, along with slopes which work well for us. Castle Siege is indeed terrible for that match-up and where a trick like footstooling is good if we find ourself in that position. It's really best to just avoid the position as much as you can, but Castle Siege is a real pain, you essentially have to throw a punch or go to the edge to safely get back to the ground. Otherwise you would be relying on tricks like that footstool or side-bing them.

Footstooling isn't a bad option. It's not particularly good but in the end it's better than just falling into a grab. It's a nice little trick to have but nothing to rely on.

It's not too hard to cover Dk's landing options in general but having a fully charged punch and platforms makes it much easier for us to land.

Also so much of this. Platforms are so good for DK. And having Giant Punch is also god tier for landing.

It's like sakurai gave DK all these great freaking moves and then figured out ways to make them not as good. And then Giant Punch was deemed the move that would not be ****ed up by something stupid.

 

[Neon!]

It's like sakurai gave DK all these great freaking moves and then figured out ways to make them not as good. And then Giant Punch was deemed the move that would not be ****ed up by something stupid.

And then he gave us dash attack.

 

[crifer]

And then he gave us dash attack.

Every time I use dash attack, I feel like I´m trolling my opponent xD
So useless.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Lost DK Knowledge: Dash attack is actually good. I SWEAR GUYS.

But seriously did I mention how I've started implementing dash attack (and DACUS...) into my game? It works. Dash attack isn't too bad of an attack if you use it vs anything other than a shield. Just don't let it get shielded.

 

[crifer]

Lost DK Knowledge: Dash attack is actually good. I SWEAR GUYS.

But seriously did I mention how I've started implementing dash attack (and DACUS...) into my game? It works. Dash attack isn't too bad of an attack if you use it vs anything other than a shield. Just don't let it get shielded.

And how are people suuposed to get hit by that?? and if they get hit...we don´t have any follow ups afaik....

 

[DtJ S2n]

It actually has a disturbingly long reach and it hits on frame 9. Its priority is pretty good. It's essentially F-tilt except in the middle of your dash. It lasts for a really long time too, it works well vs spotdodges. If you're good like me or something you can cancel it into u-smash on reaction to the opponent jumping at you, which is really sweet looking. You can also cancel into u-smash on spotdodges that are timed right.

You can't follow up from it because it really is meant to be a ******** move. It doesn't hit at a bad angle though and the knockback is stupid enough to plop them onto a platform a lot of the time.

I'm being entirely serious when I say dash attack is usable. DACUS is freaking stupid and not very practical but it's super cool.

 

[Goast]

I use it as a mix-up move once in a while usually later in the match. Most people just don't expect it to come from donkeykong so it's a nice surprise move. I also edge-guard sometimes with it.

 

[Ripple]

Id rather use a move that doesn't have 12 seconds of cool down