The NEW Marth Guides Collection!

[Remzi]

I. Introduction
Hello Marth Boards, as part of the revamping of this forum, I am making a new Marth Guide Collection. A guide to guides if you will. Here we will have a list of guides and informative posts made by various members of this very board. There is gonna be a ton of useful information so make sure to read up!

​

Shaya put it better than I'd ever be able to, so I'll allow his description to serve as an explanation:

THE GUIDE OF GUIDES

The ultimate pinnacle of all super special awesome marth information!

Fear its wrath as it embowels all those who attempt to stray it with spam and unviable information!

Make sense? Probably not..... Moving on!

II. The Recommendation System
We want to be able to have an efficient and easy system for these guides that helps viewers get a better idea of which guides they should take the most from. So how is this system going to work? It's simple, really. Any guide that is added to the list will be given a default recommendation count of zero. Anyone viewing the thread can simply make a post saying they recommend one or more threads. Just a simple "+1 to X thread," works or anything really, as long as you make it clear that you are recommending one of the guides.

The names of the guides in the list will change colors depending on how many recommendations they have. Here is how it will look:

Gray = 0 Recommendations
Peach = 1 Recommendation
Red = 3 Recommendations
Green = 5 Recommendations
Blue = 7 Recommendations
Gold = 10 Recommendations

This is all subject to change of course.

I will have a count of the recommendations each guide has received next to it on the list.

You may NOT recommend your own guide, though you may recommend your own submission if it is not your material.

III. Submitting a Guide
So where am I going to find all of these useful threads and posts? Why you're going to link me to them in this very thread, of course! You can submit any guide or post, it does not matter if it is yours or not.

Follow this guideline when submitting a guide (You can copy/paste it and just fill in info):

[b]Category[/b]:
[b]Type[/b]:
[b]Subject[/b]:

Category - Which of the category's will the guide fall under? (Beginner, Moveset, Matchups, Marth Theory, Tips & Tricks, ATs/Advanced Techniques, Miscellaneous)
Type- How is the information presented? (Formal Thread, Informal Thread, Single Post)
Subject- What specifically is the guide about?

 

[Remzi]

IV. The Guides!

BEGINNER:

Marth F.A.Qs Recommendations: 1
Author: Shaya
Type: List
Subject: General Marth


How to Use Marth at a Novice Level Recommendations: 0
Author: Pierce7d
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Basic Moveset Applications


Returning to the Fray Recommendations: 0
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Recovery


Understanding Your Options Recommendations: 0
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Basic Options


Marth's Zones Recommendations: 1
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Zoning/Spacing



MOVESET:

Marth's Frame Data Recommendations: 0
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Frame Data


Marth's Upward Killers Recommendations: 0
Author: Shaya
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Vertical Kill Moves


Ftilt and Jab Second Hit Recommendations: 0
Author: Pierce7d
Type: Essay
Subject: 2 Specific Moves in Marths Arsenal



MATCHUPS:

Marth's Matchup Index Recommendations: 0
Author: Shaya
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: General Matchups


Fighting Metaknight Recommendations: 1
Author: Havok
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: MK Matchup



MARTH THEORY:

Hot/Cold Theory Recommendations: 0
Author: Havok
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Mindset


Aggressive vs Defensive Recommendations: 0
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Marth Playstyles



TIPS & TRICKS:

Semi-Advanced Marth Stuff Recommendations: 0
Author: Junk
Type: List



Random Helpful Notes Recommendations: 0
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: List



How to Get Way Better With Marth Recommendations: 1
Author: Junk
Type: List



ATs (ADVANCED TECHNIQUES):

DS Ledge Grab Recommendations: 1
Author: 3xSwords
Type: Formal Thread



Retreating Pivot Grab Recommendations: 0
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: Formal Thread



Shield Breaker Bouncing Recommendations: 0
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: Formal Thread



MISCELLANEOUS:

Making the Most of Training Mode Recommendations: 0
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Training


Marth's True Combos Recommendations: 0
Author: Takeurlife2
Type: List
Subject: Combos


Ledge Traps Against You and Your Opponent Recommendations: 1
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Ledge Play


Lava and You: A Marth's Guide to Norfair Recommendations: 2
Author: Raziek
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Norfair


Acid Trip! A Marth's Guide to Brinstar Recommendations: 0
Author: Raziek
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Brinstar

Acid Trip! A Marth's Guide to Brinstar



That's all for now. Submissions? Questions? Comments? Post them here.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I have no issue with this but what was wrong with the old thread

 

[Albert.]

The 2nd post in this thread is nice, but the 1st post seems far too detailed and wordy.

And this is coming from someone who loves TLDR posts.

Edit and why is every rating 5 out of 5? You might as well not have any ratings.

 

[Saki-]

Perhaps it's our duty to rate them the way we see fit?

 

[Blacknight99923]

my moto is everything with marth is 5/5 unless it invloves losing to falcon

but my bias aside there isn't a need for them to all be 5/5

 

[Remzi]

Albert, is there anything you'd recommend removing from the first post. Most of it is kind of necessary IMO...

As for the ratings, that's just the default, I'm waiting for you guys to rate them. They will be sorted within each category by rating.

 

[Blacknight99923]

thanks for explaining

 

[Shaya]

If you could throw in dates (submitted and/or last updated) that be perdy.

Glad this is underway
*stickied*

Also perhaps start things at a rating of zero. The 2.5 thing meaning removable shouldnt necessarily be set in concrete either. Perhaps just, guides with low ratings may be subject to removal from the thread.

 

[Rad]

(Note: This is simply what I, as a nub, took away from these guides. My opinion could be invalid.)

IV. The Guides!

Ledge Traps Against You and Your Opponent Rating: 5.0 out of 5
Author: Steel
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Ledge Play

There is some pretty useful information in the thread discussion, but I always found this guide unhelpful. It just explains that Marth is good against opponents on the ledge, and bad against opponents when on the ledge; only discussing a few of Marth's options. I think a thread that actually lists / evaluates all of Marth's solid options and viable mix-ups on the ledge / when edguarding is important and should be made.

Is this the right place to suggest this sort of thing?

Official Counterpicking Thread Rating: 5.0 out of 5
Author: BengalsRZ
Type: List
Subject: Counterpicking

From what I understand this thread is kinda run by the suggestions random people make? I think that for each CP and Ban, a few notes on why you'd pick a stage is important. I can read the thread and see FD as a CP for MK, but until you put a little note that says "helps guarantee grab release follow ups," I'm sitting confused at why I'd want to pick a stage with large blast zones and lots of room off-stage, Idk. For that reason I see this thread as a little un-helpful.

That's all I have to say really. I think most of the threads listed are extremely helpful.

 

[JoeJenkins]

Thanks for all of the Marth tips. I got a tourney this weekend so I hoping for the best. Seriously, amazing help thank you so much.

 

[Blacknight99923]

(Note: This is simply what I, as a nub, took away from these guides. My opinion could be invalid.)



There is some pretty useful information in the thread discussion, but I always found this guide unhelpful. It just explains that Marth is good against opponents on the ledge, and bad against opponents when on the ledge; only discussing a few of Marth's options. I think a thread that actually lists / evaluates all of Marth's solid options and viable mix-ups on the ledge / when edguarding is important and should be made.

Is this the right place to suggest this sort of thing?



From what I understand this thread is kinda run by the suggestions random people make? I think that for each CP and Ban, a few notes on why you'd pick a stage is important. I can read the thread and see FD as a CP for MK, but until you put a little note that says "helps guarantee grab release follow ups," I'm sitting confused at why I'd want to pick a stage with large blast zones and lots of room off-stage, Idk. For that reason I see this thread as a little un-helpful.

That's all I have to say really. I think most of the threads listed are extremely helpful.

Fd is helpful for marth, MK Isn't paticularly good on FD. MK has very little aerial mobility he however has high aerial acceleration (which is what you get from jumps) (MK can't land on platforms here) meaning that your on stage air game is better here.
Also your grab release options on MK really do help.

edit Joe these guides help but only if you know how to use them, try playing AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE at your tournament if you are new to smash.

Also we need a grab release guide if we don't already have one

 

[Saki-]

Edit: nevermind, moving this elsewhere

 

[Rad]

Fd is helpful for marth, MK Isn't paticularly good on FD. MK has very little aerial mobility he however has high aerial acceleration (which is what you get from jumps) (MK can't land on platforms here) meaning that your on stage air game is better here.
Also your grab release options on MK really do help.

Yeah (edit: I sorta think) I know, I'm just saying there should be a few sentences (like the ones you just gave me) or else the stages listed in the OP of the thread are kinda worthless... In my opinion at least.

 

[Reizilla]

I agree with Rad on this one. As far as counterpicking, there should be some sort of summary as to why you should pick that stage and what to abuse, or at least a note of what pages the discussions for each character was on, so we could go read it ourselves. Those of us that have been here a while and actually read through that thread as it was made know why, but newer people won't and it seems a bit unreasonable to make them sort through all of those pages to find a particular discussion.

Maybe one of the board's scribes-people could go through that and make note of where each character was discussed and Bengalz could post it in the OP.

 

[P. O. F.]

Bengals is the man. I support this.

 

[Remzi]

Eh, if I don't get any ratings soon I might just discard the rating system as a whole, or at least take a new approach to it.

And I can take down the Counterpick thread until we get through it and have summaries in.

 

[∫unk]

My threads on Marth's metagame are way more useful / "advanced" than your shieldbreaker bouncing.

Your shieldbreaker bouncing is a situational recovery mixup. Mine is how to get way better with Marth. Like, I feel like the guides that actually help you play better should be emphasized, not the gimmicks that are generally risky (in comparison to their reward).

I'm not even saying this to try and be mean I just don't think you're thinking about this very much.

I didn't even look at the entire list I just saw that most of your threads were in the "Advanced" section and mine weren't and had to make this post. And I'm not trying to claim I advanced Marth's metagame all by myself. I just wrote a bunch of guides on Marth. Some of them were my original ideas and some of them weren't.

Btw, I pretty much know no frame data on Marth and I think my Marth qualifies as "Advanced". I don't even know how to do the Shieldbreaker thing because I've never needed it. The best Marth doesn't use it anymore at all and he actively tried using it for a while.

I also don't know how to do the retreating pivot grab (I mean other than just running away and pivot grabbing). I know how to do standing pivot grab but I don't think that's the same thing (I didn't read the thread).

I also don't do the instant ledge grab thing because I'd much rather do a ledge trap, and if I'm timing a edge grab it's not impossible to time let go/regrab. I also don't like the risk if you somehow mess up you just Up B on stage near the edge and the opponent can react with a charge smash.

And that first picture is gross and too big. Re-size it, and preferably find a more serious picture.

 

[Remzi]

My threads on Marth's metagame are way more useful slash "advanced" than your shieldbreaker bouncing.

Umm... by advanced I mean it's recommended for players who already know what they're doing. As in, don't waste your time learning shield and other things like that until you are at a high level and are looking for ways to advance yourself. Just because it isn't listed in advanced does not mean it's not as useful, that's what the rating system is for (not that it's working).

Your shieldbreaker bouncing is a situational recovery mixup. Mine is how to get way better with Marth.

I'm not even saying this to try and be mean I just don't think you're thinking about this very much.

And who is your guide intended for? Already advanced players? Or average players trying to make the jump? Most likely the latter. Even though newer players seem to be far more attracted to the word "AT" then more experienced players are, my 2 ATs are actually intended for players who already know what they are doing. Maybe advanced isn't the word for it, but it honestly just sounds like you're mad that I'm saying my guides are better than yours or something like that. Which.... isn't the case.

I'm not taking this as mean... but it doesn't seem like you thought this through very much either.

I didn't even look at the entire list I just saw that most of your threads were in the "Advanced" section and mine weren't and had to make this post.

You really didn't have to make this post. And take another look at the list, I have 1 in beginner, 3-4 in medium, and 2 ATs in advanced. They are called advanced techniques for a reason

Btw, I pretty much know no frame data on Marth and I think my Marth qualifies as "Advanced". I don't even know how to do the Shieldbreaker thing because I've never needed it. The best Marth doesn't use it anymore at all and he actively tried using it for a while.

I don't get what you're trying to say. I guarantee if you learn your frame data, especially matchup specific data, you'll get better. I'm not saying if you don't know your frame data you can't be advanced, you clearly don't understand the categories at all, which makes it a tad frustrating to read your complaints.

My threads on Marth's metagame are way more useful slash "advanced" than your shieldbreaker bouncing.

The fact that you are saying useful "slash" advanced means that you think they are the same thing. Which isn't the case. Again, there is a rating system for a reason.

 

[∫unk]

I really don't have to make any post, but I click on this and I see your SB thread in the "Advance". If no one uses it why is it even being linked as if it will help? I believe the original creator of that AT was Bardull? I'm pretty sure he'll even tell you it's not that useful.

I do think it should be linked somewhere, in a separate new section. "AT's that aren't used yet" or something like that.

I suggest changing the format, to something other than the format I created that's over a year old.

People are going to want to click on the "Advanced" threads. None of those are really useful except the frame data thread for about 10 people. Sure other people might find it interesting, but they'd be a lot better off focusing their time on fundamentals.

Knowing frame data is helpful, but that's for the "Super Advanced". For people who need every extra edge on their game.

If you're speaking that level of "Advanced", they're not clicking on guides and reading them (EXCEPT for the Frame Data thread). They're figuring out their own thing and they're teaching you. Rarely are they learning from the boards.

And I edited my post but you don't really need to address the other points I put in.

 

[Reizilla]

Just a suggestion for possible new titles, since Junk does have a point about the new players thing. Maybe something like:

"Learning to play Marth Competitively in Brawl" or "Marth Fundamentals"

"Once you know that ^^, try this" or "For Advancing Players"

"Guides for the Best of them" or "For the Money Makers"

and then a "Situation, but Could be Useful" section or something.

obviously, they're very cheesy, but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to get across. Thinking about it, the titles are a bit shady, so to speak.

 

[Megavitamins]

Am I the only Marth that doesn't give a **** about frame data?

Kinda agree with Junk

 

[Shaya]

Marths instant ledge grab thing is INSANELY useful.

Otherwise yeah, some better categorisation would be nice.
Beginner / Intermediate / Advanced doesnt really cut it...

Like in general i think beginner / advanced are good categories for GUIDES. But just about everything else could be categorised better. Such as Techniques, Movesets, etc.

Id also prefer a top picture that isnt so... so

 

[Remzi]

Yea, the whole categorization could definitely use some reworking. I'll mess with it a lot later.

 

[Shaya]

+ throw it into a move set category or something:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270534 - Pierces ftilt/jab thread.

Also if the rating system cannot be so successful with 5, perhaps dumbing it down +1/-1 type stuff (like THIS GUIDE IS LEGIT/THIS GUIDE IS SH-AZAMBABY). The notion being so that its mostly a number of how many people state that the guide is good. The negative vote probably not being seen too often.

 

[Steel]

dang yo who's that steel guy he's got a lot of threads up there dang man

 

[Remzi]

i'm gonna revamp this badboy later on this weekend

 

[Remzi]

Ok:

Categorization = Redone

Rating System = Redone (Now a recommendation system, please read explanation in OP)

Sorry for taking so long fellas. Now to start it off, I'm gonna do my own recommendations.


+1 to Marth's Zones by Steel

+1 to How to get Way Better with Marth by Junk

+1 to Fighting Metaknight by Havok

*EDIT: I'm still open to suggestions, let me know if you don't like anything or are confused about something.

 

[Brandons]

Thanks for the guides.

 

[Zano]

Oooh, Marth guides. I shall definitely take a look at these when I have the chance ^_^

 

[Raziek]

Submitting my Brinstar and Norfair guides for this list.

Edit: I suppose I should fill out the template.

Level of Information: Advanced
Type: Formal Thread
Subject: Stages
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=278807

and

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275179

 

[Remzi]

I'll add those two now Raziek. And I'll add a recommendation for the Norfair one because I love it, haha.

Also, I forgot to update the template, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced is a bit outdated now

*EDIT: Guys, lets get some recommendations going!!!

 

[Reizilla]

Add my recommendations for:

Marth FAQs
DS ledge grab (seriously, everyone should be using this a lot. It's useful for more than just regrabbing)
Ledge traps
And The Norfair guide.

 

[Iamagundam]

very helpful! I'm grateful for the sharing ; ) I wish to be a good marth player.
and I fought a hard falco that I will never forget. this helped me with dealing with many types of characters.. not really. but the ones I have a hard time with ^-^

 

[Crackle]

Thinking like a 2011 Marth Thread is being recommended by me, it's maker!
It needs contributory discussion to advance as well, it's just got launched but has no springboard to further detail/analysis.

Level of Information: Intermediate/Advanced
Type: Semi-formal (stay on subject but don't overpunctuate)
Subject: Thinking Methods & Discussion on Marth at a higher level of play

 

[6Mizu]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290623
This needs to be on there.

 

[Saybr]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290623
This needs to be on there.

Agreed. I was nearly clueless on which grab releases were actually possible until Kadaj took the time to share some info with everyone. Kadaj's strategy on countering MK's Mach Tornado may also be worth sharing here.

 

[Tyler_ACE]

Zomg, very helpful I loved aggressive vs defensive, it really got me thinking about which way I need to play. Kudos to whoever "steel" is for forcing me to use my brain XD

 

[Nike.]

Holy cow at bump lol

Who is "steel"?

Bengalrz, did you wanna put the RCO Vid on this?

 

[Reizilla]

I think he's that one admin that's only talks about white wimminz.