HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
FOREWORD: This only applies to people who use the Gamecube Controller or the Classic Controller, and I use the latter. Do you use either of them? If not, this thread is more likely than not going to waste your time.
Update: I've put links on some terms like wavebouncing and SDI so that people who don't know what they are can get a lot of info on them.
Introduction
All Lucas mains have probably debated the choice between C-sticking and B-sticking, and why not? Each of those controls have their own benefits and downfalls, and everyone has picked one or the other and went on from there.
But now, with an amazing discovery by Galeon, all Lucas mains now have the chance to have the best of both worlds, by allowing wavebouncing using the c-stick set to smashes: This is the config of a new age: C-BOUNCING!
What it is
This configuration is essentially default controls, with one slight modification to it: Either R, L or Z must be set to specials. Any one will do. You can try doing this with default controls and use B as specials, but you'd have to claw your hands pretty awkwardly and it isn't exactly viable in tournament matches unless you're really steady with your hands.
The reason it can't be the D-pad is because you have to be holding the control stick when you're wavebouncing. And it can't be ABXY because of the claw thing I mentioned.
How it works
Alright. With your configuration set to C-Bouncing, go to training mode, pick Lucas, and go to any stage you want. Now dash forward, jump forward, and then tilt your c-stick back while pressing L, R or Z whichever one you chose for specials earlier at the exact same time. This must be frame perfect and therefore requires a lot of mastering before you can pull this off in serious matches. Congratulations, you just wavebounced a PK Fire!
Whatever you can do with B-sticking, you can do with tilting the c-stick and pressing your specials button at the same time. Wavezap? Hold your control stick left/right, then double jump and tilt your c-stick right/left (respectively) while pressing specials at the exact same time. For me it's really hard to pull off, but I'm sure at least someone out there can do this.
Why it works
Note: All of the following is pure conjecture. I have no basis or proof for this, but I do have some testing. So if I'm wrong, or there's another explanation, eh. I haven't seen it. Besides, all this is theory and has probably no use to you. I'm just putting it for my own entertainment.
Now. While you have many buttons and many things you can assign them to, the game only interprets 9 inputs (well technically it's 21 because of the different directions, but I'm going to simplify things here). These are:
Brawl interprets these inputs and gives you different outputs, which are all your attacks and smashes and specials and stuff.
Now obviously if you somehow press Jump, Special, Grab (which is shield+attack) and smash your control stick all in one frame, Lucas is not going to launch a PK Fire, pull out an Fsmash and roll forward all at the same time (although that would be awesome). Therefore, there must be a certain priority to these inputs at different situations.
I went to training mode with default controls and set the time to 1/4 (to minimize error and to give me 4 frames to input instead of 1) and pressed a and b at the same time. More often than not, I got a PK Freeze instead of a jab. I smashed the stick forward and pressed a and b at the same time again, and I got a PK Fire. This means that when grounded, specials have more priority than attacks. However, when I was dashing and did the same thing, I got a dash attack more often than a PK Fire. This means that while dashing, attacks have more priority than specials.
(note: when I say "more often than not", i mean that 90% of the time I got this result, and another contrary result was probably because i pressed one button faster than the other. you can do this by pressing jump and attack at the same time. you either jab, or you nair. you never do an empty fullhop/shorthop, indicating that attacks have more priority than jumps on the ground)
So, the important bit: When I was in the air, pressing a + b at the same time yielded a PK Freeze most of the time, meaning that in the air, Specials have more priority than attacks which is the crux of this section.
When you are holding your control stick forward while pressing the C-stick back and pressing specials, your c-stick inputs a Smashed Control Stick backwards, and an attack. Your specials button inputs a specials action, which means you have a Smash < + Attack + Special. Specials have more priority than attack, so that leaves us with a Smash < + Special. Hey, isn't that the same as B-sticking backwards?
If you screw up...
I said before that you have to be frame perfect, and therefore you're guaranteed to make a lot of mistakes at the start. When you try a short-hopped wavebounced PK Fire using the C-Bouncing configuration, here are signs that you're doing it wrong:
When you're trying a wavezap, the list expands.
So now, which one to pick?
We're still left with three choices on which control scheme to pick. To help with this, I'm going to list several pros and cons on each control scheme.
C-sticking:
++ SDI
+ Aerial control
+ Quick smashes
-- Lose the opportunity to wavebounce (affects spacing AND recovery)
- Lose PSI Magnet mindgames (could well be a potential surprise kill)
B-sticking:
++ Wavebouncing
+ Easier thundersliding
+ Mindgames with PSI Magnet
- Have to get used to controlling aerials with only the C-stick
-- Loss of SDI
C-Bouncing:
++ Wavebouncing
++ SDI
+ Aerial Control
++ Is probably the best control scheme for Lucas players
+ Quick smashes
---- Is incredibly hard to get used to
- Requires some steady hands
-- If you get cold hands/nervous at a tournament, you're screwed, you'll make mistakes too often.
All of the control schemes have one plus to them and it seems to me that players who have gotten used to their control schemes should stick to their own schemes because the new control scheme will require a lot of unlearning to do, and removing your old habits, and is also hard to use. C-stickers who don't mind sacrificing L, R or Z should set one of them to specials just so that they have the option of wavebouncing when they need to. B-stickers will probably find this transition the hardest.
However, new Lucas players should all take C-Bouncing. Why? Because if they haven't played Brawl/Melee before at all, they have no habits to get rid of. They have gotten used to nothing and the transition would be exactly the same as learning any other control scheme, just slightly harder.
And that concludes my thread on C-Bouncing.
Note: Right now, I want to know how good this config is in real life. It's excellent, but that's all in theory, and what everyone is interested in is its practicality. If anyone has actual match experience (or better yet, tournament experience) with C-Bouncing, please post your success stories here! Did you 3-stock anyone? Did you survive Ike's Forward Smash while in the same match camping him to infuriation?
Update: I've put links on some terms like wavebouncing and SDI so that people who don't know what they are can get a lot of info on them.
Introduction
All Lucas mains have probably debated the choice between C-sticking and B-sticking, and why not? Each of those controls have their own benefits and downfalls, and everyone has picked one or the other and went on from there.
But now, with an amazing discovery by Galeon, all Lucas mains now have the chance to have the best of both worlds, by allowing wavebouncing using the c-stick set to smashes: This is the config of a new age: C-BOUNCING!
What it is
This configuration is essentially default controls, with one slight modification to it: Either R, L or Z must be set to specials. Any one will do. You can try doing this with default controls and use B as specials, but you'd have to claw your hands pretty awkwardly and it isn't exactly viable in tournament matches unless you're really steady with your hands.
The reason it can't be the D-pad is because you have to be holding the control stick when you're wavebouncing. And it can't be ABXY because of the claw thing I mentioned.
How it works
Alright. With your configuration set to C-Bouncing, go to training mode, pick Lucas, and go to any stage you want. Now dash forward, jump forward, and then tilt your c-stick back while pressing L, R or Z whichever one you chose for specials earlier at the exact same time. This must be frame perfect and therefore requires a lot of mastering before you can pull this off in serious matches. Congratulations, you just wavebounced a PK Fire!
Whatever you can do with B-sticking, you can do with tilting the c-stick and pressing your specials button at the same time. Wavezap? Hold your control stick left/right, then double jump and tilt your c-stick right/left (respectively) while pressing specials at the exact same time. For me it's really hard to pull off, but I'm sure at least someone out there can do this.
Why it works
Note: All of the following is pure conjecture. I have no basis or proof for this, but I do have some testing. So if I'm wrong, or there's another explanation, eh. I haven't seen it. Besides, all this is theory and has probably no use to you. I'm just putting it for my own entertainment.
Now. While you have many buttons and many things you can assign them to, the game only interprets 9 inputs (well technically it's 21 because of the different directions, but I'm going to simplify things here). These are:
- Smashing your control stick
- Tilting your control stick (by how much is another matter)
- Holding your control stick
- Letting go of your control stick
- Attack
- Shield
- Special
- Jump
- Taunt
Brawl interprets these inputs and gives you different outputs, which are all your attacks and smashes and specials and stuff.
Now obviously if you somehow press Jump, Special, Grab (which is shield+attack) and smash your control stick all in one frame, Lucas is not going to launch a PK Fire, pull out an Fsmash and roll forward all at the same time (although that would be awesome). Therefore, there must be a certain priority to these inputs at different situations.
I went to training mode with default controls and set the time to 1/4 (to minimize error and to give me 4 frames to input instead of 1) and pressed a and b at the same time. More often than not, I got a PK Freeze instead of a jab. I smashed the stick forward and pressed a and b at the same time again, and I got a PK Fire. This means that when grounded, specials have more priority than attacks. However, when I was dashing and did the same thing, I got a dash attack more often than a PK Fire. This means that while dashing, attacks have more priority than specials.
(note: when I say "more often than not", i mean that 90% of the time I got this result, and another contrary result was probably because i pressed one button faster than the other. you can do this by pressing jump and attack at the same time. you either jab, or you nair. you never do an empty fullhop/shorthop, indicating that attacks have more priority than jumps on the ground)
So, the important bit: When I was in the air, pressing a + b at the same time yielded a PK Freeze most of the time, meaning that in the air, Specials have more priority than attacks which is the crux of this section.
When you are holding your control stick forward while pressing the C-stick back and pressing specials, your c-stick inputs a Smashed Control Stick backwards, and an attack. Your specials button inputs a specials action, which means you have a Smash < + Attack + Special. Specials have more priority than attack, so that leaves us with a Smash < + Special. Hey, isn't that the same as B-sticking backwards?
If you screw up...
I said before that you have to be frame perfect, and therefore you're guaranteed to make a lot of mistakes at the start. When you try a short-hopped wavebounced PK Fire using the C-Bouncing configuration, here are signs that you're doing it wrong:
- You do a short-hopped Bair (c-stick too early)
- You do a SHPKF, no wavebounce (c-stick too late)
- You PKF backwards but don't turn around at all (C-stick too late by 2-3 frames)
- A full-hopped wavebounced PK Fire (held your Jump button too long)
- Any combination of the above
When you're trying a wavezap, the list expands.
So now, which one to pick?
We're still left with three choices on which control scheme to pick. To help with this, I'm going to list several pros and cons on each control scheme.
C-sticking:
++ SDI
+ Aerial control
+ Quick smashes
-- Lose the opportunity to wavebounce (affects spacing AND recovery)
- Lose PSI Magnet mindgames (could well be a potential surprise kill)
B-sticking:
++ Wavebouncing
+ Easier thundersliding
+ Mindgames with PSI Magnet
- Have to get used to controlling aerials with only the C-stick
-- Loss of SDI
C-Bouncing:
++ Wavebouncing
++ SDI
+ Aerial Control
++ Is probably the best control scheme for Lucas players
+ Quick smashes
---- Is incredibly hard to get used to
- Requires some steady hands
-- If you get cold hands/nervous at a tournament, you're screwed, you'll make mistakes too often.
All of the control schemes have one plus to them and it seems to me that players who have gotten used to their control schemes should stick to their own schemes because the new control scheme will require a lot of unlearning to do, and removing your old habits, and is also hard to use. C-stickers who don't mind sacrificing L, R or Z should set one of them to specials just so that they have the option of wavebouncing when they need to. B-stickers will probably find this transition the hardest.
However, new Lucas players should all take C-Bouncing. Why? Because if they haven't played Brawl/Melee before at all, they have no habits to get rid of. They have gotten used to nothing and the transition would be exactly the same as learning any other control scheme, just slightly harder.
And that concludes my thread on C-Bouncing.
Note: Right now, I want to know how good this config is in real life. It's excellent, but that's all in theory, and what everyone is interested in is its practicality. If anyone has actual match experience (or better yet, tournament experience) with C-Bouncing, please post your success stories here! Did you 3-stock anyone? Did you survive Ike's Forward Smash while in the same match camping him to infuriation?
Works for me. I vote for C-bouncing aswell.
