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Tourney Locator Tech of The Week: Hit Pause OS
- Thread starter person839201
- Start date
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How about actually watching the video first.
Sarcasm
Your head
Ikr.
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Intriguing. I'll probably never be good enough to get close to doing this, but it's an interesting watch nonetheless. Kudos to y'all for making these videos for us to watch! 
"Everyone else gets tech #40, Hit Pause Option Select."
I lol'd so hard.
And people said the 10 frame buffer made this game less complicated...
EDIT: Actually, I just realized something that might be a problem. Since hitting a shield still produces hit lag, that means trying to option select on hit into an unsafe move will backfire if you hit a shield. While this doesn't mean this tech is useless, it does mean it should probably only be used to option select into moves that are safe on or beat shield. So the example from the video of Link option selecting into a Spin Attack on hit is probably a bad idea, since if shielded it will lead into a Spin Attack onto the shield. Similarly, option selects meant to be effective on block may reduce potential follow ups on a hit, but that's less of a concern.
I lol'd so hard.
And people said the 10 frame buffer made this game less complicated...
EDIT: Actually, I just realized something that might be a problem. Since hitting a shield still produces hit lag, that means trying to option select on hit into an unsafe move will backfire if you hit a shield. While this doesn't mean this tech is useless, it does mean it should probably only be used to option select into moves that are safe on or beat shield. So the example from the video of Link option selecting into a Spin Attack on hit is probably a bad idea, since if shielded it will lead into a Spin Attack onto the shield. Similarly, option selects meant to be effective on block may reduce potential follow ups on a hit, but that's less of a concern.
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I personally don't, but that's mostly because I can't remember on the spot exactly what the inputs and options are, much less choose the best one. Lemme put it this way: If everyone else has learned it, you're handicapped if you don't. If you're the only one that knows it, that's your advantage. So if you have the time (and I personally haven't, RL is too busy right now), you should absolutely learn/memorize this stuff to step up your Smash game.
It's not all that hard if you keep the option in mind. So if you're playing Lucario and you're looking for a kill, understanding that you can option select off of a dair low to the ground into a Force Palm is a lot easier then down airing and then deciding to option select after you've down aired. After that it's just practice to get the inputs down.
True. Without the OS though Link can hit a body, shield, or wiff. Without the OS the Up+B comes out every time. Now at least on wiff it doesn't come out and link stays mobile. Optimization will never shut out EVERY option, but tightening up one or two as we go along is still a win.
OSing the spin attack is definitely better then just straight up going for it, but with the power and previlance of shields in Smash 4, committing to such an unsafe option on what is by far the most used defensive option is still a bad idea. The majority of the time people will use shield, especially to block attacks from the air.
This is why I think the examples for Lucario and Marth are so good, because while you can't cover every option, covering the most powerful and most used option is very important. If Marth's down tilt connects though it could lead to him getting punished for the shield breaker at low percents, but you really shouldn't be revealing such an option at percentages that low where you won't get a kill from a shield break anyway.
Although if we really want to get crazy, the most recent patch has changed moves with hit lag modifiers greater than 1 to have less self hit-lag on shield, which means that some moves actually have a different amount of self hit lag on hit or block. So for example, Roy could theoretically option select his sweet spotted jab to flare blade on whiff, grab on block, and blazer on hit. This would cover every option but rolls, which flare blade has so little end lag to punish afterwards. The timing would be super strict though (2 frames on Roy's jab) and it'd be super impractical, but the fact that it is technically possible is hilarious. Just another tool for the robots when they take over I guess.
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I wasn't aware of some of these changes you describe.
Amazing.
Roy's Jab huh? What other moves are there that have different hit lag on shield vs person?
The most recent patch has changed the way self hit lag on shield (self-shieldlag) is calculated for moves with a hit lag modifier greater than 1. If a move with a hit lag modifier greater than 1 is shielded the modifier is divided by 1.25 (minimum 1) for calculating shieldlag for the attacker. This only applies if the move is shielded and makes the move safer on shield. This most notably affects the sweet spots of Roy and Marth and almost all of Ryu's moves, but applies to any attack with a hit lag modifier greater than 1.
The exact numbers can for Roy and Ryu can be found here http://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-mode-1-1-0-community-patch-notes.412130/page-27 with numbers for Marth and other characters on the following pages. Shout outs to @LordWilliam1234 for first discovering this.
Remember, children, Smash 4 is a braindead fighting game with no advanced tech.
By the way... I don't think I've ever seen anyone refer to hitlag as "hit pause" until I saw this video in my YT subscription feed. I was quite confused at first.
By the way... I don't think I've ever seen anyone refer to hitlag as "hit pause" until I saw this video in my YT subscription feed. I was quite confused at first.
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Buffering exists in numerous other fighting games and in multiple hack-n-slashers, as well. It surprises me how it's often mocked, especially when it already existed in select situations in Melee (such as techs & rolls).
I read this as hit pause OoS too.
(Lucario Main) That is so cool! How did you do it again? I think you'll need to show me 100 times before I get it. (I'm seriously that confused.)
Agreed. I know you're being sarcastic, but still.
Yet another "tech" that has been "discovered" in smash 4.
I love just how much effort is put into making smash 4 look like it requires more skill than it does... especially the fancy pants titles they give to these "techs"
Would post my dr evil "TECH SKILL" meme but I don't even feel like it today.
Good. Don't post it, because these videos, as far as I'm aware, aren't being marketed as a discovery. You'd make yourself look like an even bigger fool.
Haters gonna hate, brah.
Nah, they're being marketed towards smash 4 players who can't handle PM/melee/64 tech so that they feel better about playing a really really easy game competitively.
You're everything wrong with the Smash community in general. Enjoy your little corner and I'll enjoy mine. =3Nah, they're being marketed towards smash 4 players who can't handle PM/melee/64 tech so that they feel better about playing a really really easy game competitively.
In what way? I've been playing smash since I was 10 years old in the 64 days. I've been following this scene for a long, long time.
I had to watch Brawl destroy melee for years when it was 100x worse than melee, which was extremely sad.
Fortunately the smash community came to it's senses and threw away brawl tournaments like the trash that they were and brought back real melee.
So of course I don't like smash 4 which in many ways is even more dumbed down than brawl was.
Until they bring back the basic stuff that made smash what it is (being able to ledge hog, advanced techniques, and most importantly L cancelling) I'm never going to support the newer iterations of smash. Once smash 4's hype dies down so will the tournaments, just like Brawl. Only so long can people continue playing a game competitively when there's zero depth involved.
I refuse to just stay in my "corner" I have to deal with all the smash 4 scrubs hating on every melee thread / video / discussion? Then you guys have to deal with me. Just like in the brawl days. I fight the good fight.
Edit : You act like smash 4 players are innocent and don't bash the other smash games, when they're actually 1000000x worse and will often resort to personal attacks, insults, and homophobia to get their points across. Meleef4g... etc. I have more class than that.
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>implying that ATs and all that are the only way that a game can have depth
Smash 4 is fun for what it is. In my opinion, anyways. It's not as technically deep as Melee, of course -- that much we can all agree on -- but this video shows that there's still some amount of technical depth to be found. If you want a super-technical game with wavedashing, l canceling, and all that, keep playing Melee. That's Melee's spot in the Smash series, and each game -- including Smash 4 -- has its own spot as well.
If you don't like people for hating on threads, then don't do it yourself. You're just becoming the very type of person you hate. It's hypocrisy, to put it bluntly.
That's a generalization. I could say the same about the Melee community, but it'd be every bit as wrong.
...you say after this:
Again, hypocrisy.Nah, they're being marketed towards smash 4 players who can't handle PM/melee/64 tech so that they feel better about playing a really really easy game competitively.
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Simply put, if you don't care for the game, don't waste your time commenting on it. Hating on a game you don't play is what's wrong. If the scrubs stupid enough to do that to Melee appear, destroy them systematically. Point is to not spread hate, which I feel you were. You were saying Smash 4 players play Smash 4 because it's "easier." And, ya know? That is debatable. Different games with different requirements. Since you admit that you don't really play the game, I can't expect you to see that viewpoint. I've played since 64, too, so I can see yours, but I still disagree with it.
And L Cancelling was a terrible mechanic. It's basically just a fluff tech skill. It's the single least important tech skill in Melee/P:M from a design standpoint.
As for Hype, Brawl went on until Smash 4's release, and we're already close to Melee levels of enterents. Maybe that's year 1 hype? Maybe not. The game is becoming much more aggressive, which is what this community wants to see most of the time. Smash 4 will die when Smash 5 is released. Until then, tournament participation will be just fine.
On a final note: there is NO melee hate in this thread. You posted anyway. Right now, you're the bad guy. Right now, you're just causing trouble to cause trouble. It brings me to my original point: Right now, you're exhibiting everything wrong with the community as a whole: the vocal minority spreading hate.
I ask that you stop.
Glad the mods are doing their job and keeping the trolls banned. :/
Anyway, this is my favorite os that you guys have shown off so far. My question is if you know of any uses Samus could get out of it?
Anyway, this is my favorite os that you guys have shown off so far. My question is if you know of any uses Samus could get out of it?
Missing an L cancel = death. I like that. Means you really need to know what you're doing to be good at the game, and has been around since 64.
I dislike the opinion that L cancelling is a fluff technique, it sepperates the men from the boys, and punishing missed Lcancels adds depth.
Ill stop bashing smash 4 in this thread whatever you win. Peace have a good weekend
People like you are why the Melee community has the negative reputation it does (and the Smash community in general). You're of the mind that speed & amount of tech are the sole determinations of a game's competitive depth, and that's absolutely ludicrous. A game can have all the tech in the world, but still be shallow as a kiddie pool.
More tech =/= a superior product, and Project M is a fine example of this, being a mod that has more tech than Melee & makes many strides on the surface to separate itself from Melee (and is undoubtedly fun), but is also in many ways just a simplified version of Melee that tries way too hard to recapture the same magic its precursor had (or, rather, has) by regurgitating it -- look at how the Melee top-tiers are outright recreations of their Melee iterations -- and has over-relied on nerfs for balancing in each build post-3.0.
The idea that Smash 4 is just a dumbed-down version of Brawl is one of the most simple-minded, barely-even-gave-a-glance assessments one could ever make about the game, as it's the farthest thing from the truth. People who say this only look at a select few common ATs from Brawl that were removed, namely DACUSing (which was a rough loss, I must admit)... or, should I say "removed", as they still technically exist, just in lesser forms with different inputs. Smash 4 is such a radically different game from Brawl that attempting to even compare them is a pretty decent stretch. The negative elements that plagued competitive Brawl -- most notably random tripping, hitstun-cancelling, and momentum-cancelling -- have all been removed, dissipating what caused the game to be so predominantly defensive.
In addition, new mechanics have been introduced for the sole purpose of crafting a better, more intuitive & balanced metagame, such as ledge-trumping -- yes, ledge-trumping, because edge-hogging is such a low-risk, high-reward method of taking a stock, i.e. incredibly safe -- rage (contrary to popular belief, something that's not nothing more than a "comeback mechanic", as it can just as easily favor who took the stock lead and makes heavyweights that rely on hard reads, such as Bowser & Ganon, stand a much better chance), meteor-cancelling's frame window being percent-dependent, SDI being severely nerfed, multi-hit moves having a finishing knockback hit on them, multi-hit aerials dragging opponents down after not delivering the finishing knockback hit due to being fast-fallen (allows for combo extensions), momentum from dash grabs carrying characters off-stage (allowing for favorable set-ups on the grabbers' part, very useful with Falcon & MK), teching being substantially easier coming off of strong hits due to recoil lag (the "sticking" of a character to a wall for a set amount of time dependent on their percent & the strength of the hit)... and many more. This isn't even mentioning the overarching leap in balance improvement in the character roster, with gaps between the best & worst characters not being insurmountable chasms for the first time in the series -- not that Smash 4 is perfectly balanced (no derp), just that it's notably more balanced than previous games, especially Melee & Brawl.
Arguably more important than all of these, however, is Smash 4's extreme attention to detail in the neutral. The neutral has always been an important part of Smash, as well as any other good fighting game, but it's more critical now than ever, which is why we're seeing ZeRo absolutely dominate the scene, on the same level of Ken with the Melee scene in his prime (if not more so); ZeRo has the best neutral game in all of Smash, and it's always what he's relied on, no matter what the title... and this is why he doesn't excel at Melee the way he does in Smash 4, as Melee is more focused on the high-octane, combo-centric style of play with super-centralizing technical mechanics dictate its very core. And that's an important word, there: "centralizing".
I think this is largely what people refer to when they say "tech" and how Smash 4 supposedly has none of it. Yes, Smash 4 doesn't have an abundance of ever-prevalent, super-technical mechanics, but in place of those are more passive ever-prevalent ones with the "tech" largely being more subdued & situational. I already went over the concept of less tech =/= better game, though, and this only feeds into Smash 4's depth coming largely from the neutral. (Just to note, as you're almost assuredly bound to misunderstand that statement, that is not me saying that Smash 4 is superior to Melee, and the fact that I'm having to outline this is a testament to the simple-minded nature of people like you.)
This is where labeling Smash 4 as "easy" falls flat on its face. No, it's not "easy", it just has a lower skill floor (and reasonably so, given that Smash is both a fighting AND a party game). Is it easier to get the hang of? Yeah, definitely. Is it easier to master? No, and the fact that there exists such large gaps between players once you start getting to the highest level, just like with Melee, proves that outright. Mastering Smash 4 is a completely different ball game than mastering Melee; where mastering Melee largely comes from fully understanding the tech & combos and knowing how to utilize them at max efficiency, mastering Smash 4 largely comes from understanding the neutral and knowing how to capitalize on the new tools provided by the game design to maximize your potential option coverages (such as the "option selects" One Smash has been showcasing).
Matchups are also inherently more definitive factors as a result, and with the roster being developed in such a heavily diverse fashion, the very speed of the game can fluctuate rapidly depending on which characters have been chosen. Obviously character selection is always going to factor into game speed, but it's never been as dynamic in previous Smash titles as it is in Smash 4. It's not uncommon for multiple matches to end in under 2 minutes, and it's equally common for games to go past the 4 minute mark, whereas when you look at previous smash titles, the pacing of their matches are relatively set due to them favoring a specific style of play -- not that that's inherently a bad thing, of course. I don't think I'd have Melee's pace be any other way than it is right now, but at the same time, I welcome Smash 4's dynamicity (is that a word?) in its pacing.
Wrapping this lengthy spiel up, there's actually a really good kicker to everything I've said: all of it serves as a confirmation of why there are so many people that prefer playing Melee and why there are so many others that prefer playing Smash 4. Some people are going to be more drawn towards the technical-focused play of Melee, while others are going to be more drawn towards the neutral-focused play of Smash 4 -- and, hell, a few others are going to find both styles appealing (note how many cross-entrants there were for both Melee & Smash 4 at EVO 2015). People have differences in taste, and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, s**t, that's the same reason why there's a division between the casual & competitive player and why there are so many different playstyles used among different players.
Smash 4's popularity isn't just a now-popular fad that's destined to fade away quickly like you make it out to be -- like Brawl was. Brawl never even came close to enjoying the same kind of success Smash 4 currently is, and a mere fad wouldn't have garnered over 1900 entrants at its very first EVO after not even having been out for a full year. People like you have been spewing out the same nonsensical claims since the game's release, and every time you have, its scene has only gotten larger. It's not going to die any time soon, and the only thing at this point that could even potentially cause it to begin to die is Smash 5. Every day, Smash 4's metagame continues to grow & evolve at a rapid pace, far beyond where any of us even dreamed of it being this soon after its release ("soon" in relative terms for a competitive game), and it's not capping out any time soon. Will it go on for 13/14+ years like Melee? Probably not, due circumstances being gravely different -- there will never be an official Melee 2.0, whereas Smash 5 will likely build upon what Smash 4 started & introduce even more new mechanics (or maybe even go the SFV route, which would still be sticking closer to Smash 4 than it would be to Melee) -- but I have my doubts that it's going to wind up on the brink of death just because Smash 5 drops, and it certainly won't be on the brink of death before Smash 5 drops like Brawl was during the buildup to Smash 4's release.
Also, as a bonus:
To chime in on the whole L-cancelling thing, L-cancelling is absolutely the most arbitrary mechanic in Smash history, if not fighting games in general. What's so in-depth about HAVING to press a button in a certain frame window before landing while performing an aerial just to have half the amount of landing lag? It's a needless tedium that accomplishes nothing, as there's nothing strategic about it. It's not even like teching where it's sometimes optimal to NOT tech in order to play mindgames and potentially get in a get-up attack; L-cancelling is just there to be there. What's the point in having something like it when, A) you can accomplish the same outcome by just having natively low landing lag and not lose any depth, and, B) there are far more compelling mechanics that warrant attention & actually enhance the metagame? Wavedashing & dash-dancing would be far better examples to use if you want to discuss beneficial tech you'd like to be brought back.
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Real talk... I can't believe I actually made a post that long.
I might as well have wrote an article, holy...
I might as well have wrote an article, holy...
Having said that, after practicing it for 5 mins I think I got it down. But is that the only variant of this OS that Lucario has, or can he do as Kirby did as well?
Lucario should be able to do the kirby style HPOS from the video using nair or dair because they each have 9 frames of landing lag.
Lucario should also be able to do the Marth style HPOS with dtilt or even ftilt.