Data Town Hall Meeting - Villager Matchup Discussion

[Indigo Jeans]

Villager Matchup Discussion​

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Villager matchup discussion thread. P-1 suggested in the social that one be made, so here we are! Even though the game still hasn't (officially) released in the US, we're a scant two days away, and with tournament videos already being uploaded, now is as good a time as any to begin discussing how our beloved Villager sizes up against the rest of the cast.

First, let's get the basics out of the way. Since it was the near-universal standard in Brawl, I think using Praxis' guide to matchup ratios is just fine for the time being, though of course we can also try and redefine the meaning of a certain ratio, or the basic ratios to better suit discussion. The first number will be our standing in the matchup, and of course, the number after the slash will be the opposing character's.

Matchup Ratios
[70:30] [65:35] [60:40] [55:45] [50:50] [45:50] [40:60] [35:65] [30:70]
​

50:50

Very even matchup. Definition should be fairly obvious.​

55:45

No character has a true solid advantage, but one has seemingly better/easier tools, or one character profits more from winning a rock/paper/scissors guessing game.​

60:40

One character has clearly better tools in the matchup. However, the other character does have responses him, and the matchup is still winnable through outplaying the opponent or out spacing his tools and countering with the weaker ones well placed.​

65:35

One character has options that shut down the other's options. Counterpicking should be considered, but it's not completely unwinnable, but rather simply requires one player to far outplay the other.​

70:30

Something about the character in the advantage completely shuts down the other character. Counterpicking is heavily recommended - or rely on them not knowing the matchup and you knowing incredibly well.​

Anything past 70:30 is considered a pretty much unwinnable matchup like Dedede vs Donkey Kong.

Matchup Chart
C u s t o m s O F F

| | | | | |
[45:55] | [65:35] | [55:45] | [60:40] | [40:60] | [45:55] | [60:40]
| | | | | |
[50:50] | [55:45] | — | [45:55] | — | [60:40] | [50:50]
| | | | | |
— | [55:45] | [40:60] | — | — | [45:55] | [45:55]
| | | | | |
[50:50] | [45:55] | [50:50] | — | — | — | —
| | | | | |
— | — | — | — | — | — | —
| | |

| | |
— | — | — | — | — | — | —
| | | | | |
— | [50:50] | [55:45] | — | — | — | —

​

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Reserved for future use

 

[Gre ninja'd]

Villager has good matchups against duck hunt and samus probably 70/30 for samus and 60/40 for duck hunt. I have the game, so if you want me to play some for glory or face people using specific characters with villager i can do that

 

[Player-1]

Is this more geared toward talking about a specific MU at a time or an open talk about whatever MUs we decide? You had Little Mac listed as a good start, but I wasn't sure if we could discuss other MUs if we didn't have much to say on Little Mac or wait until we moved on from LM. Otherwise I was going to suggest starting with one or two of the demo characters since that's what the majority of us have played against.

 

[kackamee]

Just for sake of thought, I think it'd be best to start with characters in the demo? Many of us at least have experience with that, so I think it would be best to start there.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

from the demo I only have experience against Mario & I don't know if I want to call it legit because it's reaaally early into the game. I might be very hesitant just because it's a demo though...

I'd need to mess w/ the game more but if mario capes any of your stuff, just pocket it. (obvious tho)

 

[kackamee]

Yeah, the demo isn't the best experience, but at least we have a somewhat better grasp on how those 5 characters play.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

YES actually ha ha **** sorry guys I got carried away and was looking way too far ahead. No yeah for now lets discuss the characters in the demo instead.

Is this more geared toward talking about a specific MU at a time or an open talk about whatever MUs we decide? You had Little Mac listed as a good start, but I wasn't sure if we could discuss other MUs if we didn't have much to say on Little Mac or wait until we moved on from LM. Otherwise I was going to suggest starting with one or two of the demo characters since that's what the majority of us have played against.

I would suggest that for a while we do open discussion, then after maybe a month or so after release (or whenever the meta begins to legitimately develop) we move on to structured weekly or biweekly character discussion.

Anyway that being said I'll give some input on the Mega Man MU now.

Okay so in my opinion Mega Man is kind of a bad character, mechanically speaking. He really lacks reliable KO options that aren't telegraphed, and his quicker attacks are on the weak side. For the most part, Villager can really outspace Mega Man because his NAir and FTilt are relatively weak and have lackluster range, while Leaf Shield and Metal Blade are slow and can easily be shielded or Pocketed.

Pocket really shines in the MU because of how much of Mega Man's moveset it covers. While you're usually better off not wasting inventory space on Metal Blade, Pocketing Crash Bombs and throwing them back is really nifty. If they stick, the Mega Man is forced to either approach you in an attempt to pass the bomb to you, or shield/dodge the explosion, creating an easy opportunity for you to approach. Leaf Shield is really slow when launched, so Pocketing it is easy as well, and SHing it is the best way to go because then it effectively neuters most of Mega Man's approaching options and significantly helps your own Tree camping.

FSmash is really readable, but most of the time I think you won't have an opportunity to Pocket it because you'll have something else in your inventory, so it would be better to spotdodge and use the crazy cooldown to your advantage. At close range I think PS > grab is guaranteed, but if you don't want to risk the net's wonky hitbox screwing you over, SHFair, FTilt, and DTilt are also good options.

You can also Pocket Rush. It isn't of any significance, but stuffing a dog into your pocket is pretty hilarious.

Tree is sort of eh in this MU. On one hand, it blocks a lot of Mega Man's approaching options and makes it risky for him to approach at all. On the other hand, if you're standing too close to your tree when a Crash Bomb impacts it, the explosion will still get you, and if you're in landing lag from firing off a Lloid, you might not have enough time to shield it. In general you need to be aware of the explosion's hitbox so you don't get any unpleasant surprises. Metal Blade also completely ignore the tree, passing right through it, but unless you're in some sort of lag, its still pretty easy to deal with. I don't remember if Leaf Shield can pass through the Tree, but I wanna say it does. If Mega Man somehow does manage to get right up against the opposite side of the trunk, it usually isn't too much of an issue, because depending on the distance Ftilt and Jab will be blocked, and if they're not, the damage is pretty negligible. DSmash's hitbox will always reach across the Tree in this situation, but it has noticeable startup. What you really should be worried about is SHFair, because it comes out pretty darn quickly, reaches across the Tree, and is quite strong. SHBair is the same case, but I don't know how easy it would be for them to turnaround hop or RAR, or if RAR is still even in this game. Overall the Tree still has utility in this MU, but given that Mega Man has options to hit you through it, it isn't as great for camping as it is against other characters.

In general if you want to approach you can do SHFair to block incoming blades and bombs, though since this will also neuter your attack, SHNair might be better since the hitbox remains active and you don't suffer bad landing lag if you don't FF it and if you don't do a double SHNair. SHFFFair is the way to go to actually hit Mega Man, since most of the time just SHing it will either make the projectile go over Mega Man's head, or if it does hit him, it'll be because of the end arc, and the damage and knockback are both lame at that point.

Mega Man's recovery also makes him really easy to gimp, but if they're not recovering low you have to watch out for Crash Bomb stage shenanigans.

However, you're gonna have trouble if you're above Mega Man. Villager has a nasty blindspot below, so getting juggled is really easy. Despite how powerful it is, Utilt is easily read, so you don't have to worry about that. USmash on the other hand comes out quick, racks up damage, and has a strong finishing hit. I think Uthrow > SHUair is also viable, so you REALLY need to be careful not to get stuck in the tornado. I wouldn't advise trying to Pocket it if you get caught, because the rest of the hits will probably cause Pocket to fail and you'll suffer damage anyway, so SDIing down and to the side is probably your best option.

Mega Man will be able to edgeguard you sort of decently. After your first ledge grab, DSmash really allows him to cover you, forcing you to either drop down or hop away. If you hop away you can nail him with Fair, and if you drop down, you can time a wall jump so that you rise after the hitbox is gone, and you can hit with with a strong Bair. USmash can still cover you if you try jumping over, and in this situation so will Utilt, which like I said is a really dangerous KO option for him.

You also need to not be reckless with your approach, because even though there's not much Mega Man can do to shut you down, getting grabbed while he has a Leaf Shield up will rack up a nasty amount of damage.

As far as stages go, at this point I guess you should avoid platform-heavy stages because of how easy it is for Mega Man so juggle you, and because you already have a significant advantage anyway. Flat stages really shut down a lot of his options and makes it harder for him to get Uairs to connect, while forcing his approaching behaviour into a hard linear pattern.

At this point though I don't want to be confident in this analysis, because the only Mega Man main I've played is of questionable technical knowledge, so I want to wait until we see more tournament material so we can really analyse the character's playstyle. For now though, I'm gonna say this MU is around 65/35 in our favour, solely because Mega Man isn't completely defenseless and definitely has situations where he will be in control, though he lacks ways to follow up on these leads

 

[Player-1]

I disagree about Megaman being able to outspace Megaman. I played against Reflex's Megaman who he mained in the demo and I felt pellet spam locked down Villager in a lot of ways. I didn't feel like Villager had much of an answer from the short-mid range for pellets. Mid-Long range Villager did decently with slingshots, but I felt like he had an easier time getting past the slingshots than he did the pellets since pellets are faster and you can maneuver with them easily.The pellets definitely made for a good approach because he could mix it up with 1, 2, 3, or no pellets. Pellets sort of performed the same role as slingshot would, just doing less damage so I felt like slingshots could do just as well but only if I was making reads or he was messing up. Made it hard to react to, though when he got too close nairs, ftilts, and dtilts definitely did a good job getting him back out. The pellet mixups also made it harder to pocket other moves since I was being cautious if I was going to pocket a pellet instead.

I also disagree with the juggling part. Megaman's uair is a projectile I can pocket, that mixed in with pocket b reversals, dair, nair, and air dodge I didn't feel like Megaman particularly had an easy time juggling me. I agree he has a blind spot with his corners which might make it easy for megaman to get a fair at times, but I think fair is too laggy with not enough knockback to juggle us consistently. I'm not really sure on stages, we only played omega BF so I'll leave that out.

I agree with you about tree and edguarding (both edguagarding him and him edgeguarding us). We get most of our kills edgeguarding.

I felt like a 55-45 megaman's favor mostly due to good pellet mixups made it hard to do stuff.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I see. That sounds really awesome and I would not have thought of varying the amount of pellets. Yeah, I can see how that would affect the utility of Pocket, because like you said you don't want to risk them only firing off one pellet, then you wasting your inventory space and frames because you were predicting another projectile.

Regarding juggling, I guess I'm just too cautious when it comes to UAir. Like I said, I don't want to risk getting hit out of Pocket by the rest of the tornado and taking damage anyway, so I'll just try to get out of it (the only time I can pocket it without having to get out of it is at the very end, before it disappears). Though I guess you could try SDIing out of it then B reversing a pocket to nab it before it goes away. I feel UAir is really hampered as a Pocketed projectile though, because you can't refresh its timer, and I'm pretty sure the only time it will prove useful is when you're recovering low, to make them ease up on the edgeguarding. As for DAir, I feel too insecure about getting screwed over by RNG and only having one turnip be generated, because then its really hard to beat out USmash without coming in close and getting nailed anyway. Same thing with NAir, it gets outprioritised by USmash. I normally have to resort to either bluffing with UpB (which is really risky) so they whiff the USmash, or airdodging away from them.

As for stages, I've only played BF-omega as well, so I was just making a generalisation in terms of platforms vs no plats.

I want to say that our ratio is slightly higher, but since you've played a much more skilled Mega Man I'm going to defer to you on this.

 

[kackamee]

After playing a bit of 1v1's with the Boy, one thing that seems really good to me is that Villager doesn't seem to have any completely terrible matchups. He seems to have options for just about everything. I found myself wishing he had better options to get out of rushdown though. It seems a bit hard to get away from faster characters.

 

[Soshii]

I found that when fighting a Little Mac, which in theory would be a nightmare matchup, the most effective way to tackle the matchup is to really throw him off the stage, camp at the edges. When you're able to somehow pull it off and Little Mac is below the stage, his only option is his up B. He can't afford to air dodge or he'll fall too low out of range of the ledge. So seeing as his up B is directly vertical right under the ledge, Villager has one of the best tools for this. The bowling ball falls straight down from the ledge, and I've definitely gimped alot of Little Macs today in For Glory using this. Little Mac's options off the stage obviously is very limited, but the bowling ball will almost be a 100% effective ledgeguard against Little Mac IF he's below the stage. Otherwise he'd be able to side B and you can try to predict his landing and possibly bowling ball him anyway.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

bthrow at 60% then after a double jump u raising fair/bair kills little mac

 

[Player-1]

I think Villager does rather well against Little Mac. Villager's zoning abilities horizontally with sling shot and lloid rocket help a lot since obviously LM's ability to approach from the air is pretty bad. It lets Villager control the pace of the MU which is great. It sucks he has a terrible grab which hurts us since the "typical" strategy against LM is to camp the edge of the stage and shield grab him and then back throw him off. I'd say Villager beats LM overall, I'm not really sure what to put on the MU ratio yet.

 

[Soshii]

I don't think so. Little Mac is fast enough to get passed Villager's projectiles and punish. A good LM would get damage in and go back to center stage. Villager's shield grab is almost useless against LM also. His jab combo catches Villager in the frames between the net coming out and coming out of shield. Its too slow. But like we mentioned it isn't completely hopeless. Just gotta get LM off the stage or into the air. Also hitting his fair/bair on LM is too inconsistent. He's is too short.

 

[Player-1]

No his speed doesn't matter as much if he can't jump to avoid the horizontal zoning of lloid rocket and slingshot. Little Mac is like melee falcon in a sense on the ground, but the way Melee falcon got passed a lot of projectile zoning like Falco lasers was that falcon could threaten falco with the ability to punish laggy options from far away thanks to his amazing speed he gets from going from a dash into a jump. He flies half the stage over the projectiles to punish. Little Mac isn't like this, he can't jump. The closest thing he has to that is they haymaker so if you just look out for that one mixup you should do pretty well. IDK how you're using slingshot, but slingshot goes over most of the character's head in this game if you do a rising one. Just wait a bit near where you're at the peak of your jump to fire so it comes out much lower. Also space it since the slingshot pellet drifts down at the end.

 

[Soshii]

Little Mac has no good aerials, but it doesn't mean he can't jump. I played LM for about 4 hours against friends who are also competitive players. I was able to easily approach by jumping, and rolling and punishing Villager. LM's approach game is unreal. Even if Villager is consistently spamming and zoning with Lloyds and slingshots, they don't come as often enough to really be effective against LM. We already covered strategies to take him out, but I really feel like zoning out LM is tough, especially with LM's meta building up.

 

[Player-1]

If LM is jumping at you to approach, Villager has a plethora of options. Nair OoS being the best probably. That's great tha you played your competitive friends. I am a competitive player who has played against other competitive LMs, I was able to zone them our pretty well with the methods I've described.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Little Mac controls ground space really well. He can smash or up b through ur side b & punish you. If you try & stall at the ledge he can dsmash on your regrab. He doesn't need to consistently jump the lliod if he just wants to take the % & hard punish with fsmash/up b. Though I saw a LM have no trouble jumping over it. His back roll is really hard to punish. But if you throw LM off stage at 80% and raising fair his double jump he cannot recover. I'm not sure who wins it though. I haven't run into a "good little mac" hitting LM w/ fair/bair off stage is reeeeeeaally easy. I wouldn't use Fair/Bair on stage. auto cancel dairs work best to punish rolls if you read them. Especially if you pull 3 turnips because it'll spike in the air. FRom there you can bait an airdodge/jump and follow up with a uair if he jumps or follow up with utilt or usmash if he airdodges. Or if punish right after ur AC Dair with a uair/utilt/usmash/fair/bair depending on the %.


edit: dsmash is also a good punish for predictable rolls.

 

[Kohak]

Hey guys, so I'm having issues against Rosalina and Luma. It goes without saying that this is a terrible match up against Villager. Her down special absorbs trees and lloids, Luma eats damage and outranges Villager on the ground, and Rosalina has tons of high priority moves.

Before I decide to forever counterpick Rosalina I was wondering if you guys had any tips? I like to play aggressively, and found that spacing and being patient does help, but what do you guys do?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I also feel this is a tough MU for villager, because like you said Luma doesn't flinch or suffer knockback from a lot of Villager's attacks. There's also the fact that Rosalina can use Luma Shot to get Luma through your tree and right in front of you. Luma also makes Villager's already bad grab exponentially worse. I've also found that playing patiently is your best bet, sticking mainly to Dtilt and Ftilt and throwing out Nair only when you won't get beat out. It's also worth mentioning that you can use Lloid to stop Luma Shot cold in its tracks.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Awesome input everyone, this thread is really starting to pick up.

Regarding Little Mac, I think yall two are really underestimating the effectiveness of Lloid in this MU. Like P-1's been saying Lloid completely shuts down LM's ground approach. He CAN Fsmash through it with his super armour, but unless you're right behind the rocket it won't get you and in reality him detonating the rocket will only allow you to fire off another during his cooldown, while he just added 12% to his overall damage. And really, if you let LM get that close to you you're doing something wrong. He can jump over the rocket, but this just lets you get him with a non-FF SHFair, which I think autocancels. One thing he can do that is relatively safe is use his SideB to jump over the rocket if it's descended enough and threaten you with its hitbox. Unless you PS the hit he's gonna go past you, which depending on the spacing can be a good thing or a bad thing. Though in general they won't try this if you're close to the edge because unless they space it perfectly they'll just fly off and SD.

It is worth noting that LM can get rid of your tree faster than most characters and with less risk because of how fast and powerful jab, Ftilt, and Fsmash are. If he's close enough to you, he'll dispose of both your tree and you at the same time. Fsmash has crazy shieldpush so its pretty hard to punish.

Like all other characters he edgeguards us really easily, especially with Dsmash on slanted lip stages. Spaced Fsmash is also really hard to avoid, because a good LM will space it so that he gets you whether you get up or roll onto the stage. If you try and jump he'll just use a running Usmash, so I myself never know what to do in these situations. Not even Lloid rocket is good, because if you hop away to get out of his range, he'll just shield it and you're back to square one. If you try to generate it close to the ledge, he'll just fsmash his way through it and to you. It's because of those crazy super armour frames and deceptive range that LM above all other characters really excels at edgeguarding us.

 

[Soshii]

Understood. I just think in general, Villager is going to have a tough time in the meta. While he can hold his own against some matchups, he gets annihilated in others.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

lmaolmao i made another vill mu thread while drunk oops forgive me


someone throw pit stuff info at me. Down B bodies all projectiles

 

[Player-1]

Only pit I've played against was a brawl pit that now mains palutena in the new game. Ya you have to be careful about how you use your fair, bair, and dash attack. I think Lloid is still good because it baits out the down-b and you can jump above him and dair or something, but Pit's is hard to do it to because his down-b can actually push you, it affects your movement. His down-b can't stay out for very long though and it has some lag that leaves him open. When I played against his Palutena I took advantage of how her side-b reflector moves outward and I could space a dash attack so that I went through the reflector and then hit which you can't do against Pit's :/ Pit's side-b also reflects that so you have to be careful about that too. I don't have the most Pit experience, but that's just what worked for me.

 

[Zurangatang]

Can you pocket Luma?

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

u cant pocket luma. thanks p1 ^^

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Sadly you can't Pocket Luma (even though I've had my Luma reflected back at me by Pit's orbitars or whatever).

Also Smith you had already posted in this thread before making that other one whaaaaat

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Sadly you can't Pocket Luma (even though I've had my Luma reflected back at me by Pit's orbitars or whatever).

Also Smith you had already posted in this thread before making that other one whaaaaat

i kno i wasnt sober LMAO


got 1st today at a low entree tourney..more ppl should be at the next one.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

gideon wouldn't approve of that rest in rip gideon

good stuff yo, did any matches get recorded? What were you best/worst MUs?

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

gideon wouldn't approve of that rest in rip gideon

good stuff yo, did any matches get recorded? What were you best/worst MUs?

No..I'm hoping the venue pulls through with this streaming set up but I've heard nothing of it. We had a "national"(it went horribly & turned into a glorified local and I didn't want to pay $50 to play the same people I play at locals) this weekend in Raleigh

in tournament I played...a marth first round 1. Didn't have a hard time at all really. He wasn't very good I don't think.
I got a bye, so next match I played a sheik in WFs 3-0 and again in GFs and I 3-0'd.

I played a pretty solid Brawler Mii, an ok Bowser Jr. and an OK WiiFitTrainer in friendlies.

I don't think any of those MUs were all that hard. Putting a sapling near where people roll off the edge made me get more down smashes. it also gave me breathing room to come off the stage in almost every match up.

Sheik could potentially be really hard though I'm pretty sure. That character is really good.

I ran counter stump & it was really good, especially the sapling.

 

[Soulstice Music]

I just played against the best player I have ever battled. He played mega man mostly, and I couldn't counter his strategy.

His main strategy:
B, then Side B, shield when I jump and approach, then grab or roll away to reset

My counter strategies:
-send out side b (didn't work because both his b and side b destroyed it)
-attempt to aerial side a mega man (didn't work because I kept landing too quickly to cancel the attack, and landing lag made the attack too slow anyway when it did come out)
-jump over the projectiles and attack him (I got shield grabbed)
-jump over the projectiles and grab him (somehow he still shield grabbed me faster every single time)
-jump over the projectiles and land behind him (he rolled away to reset)
-pocket the projectiles and send them back (tried with saw blade first, but that was a terrible idea because unpocketing it makes you hold it instead of throw it--then I tried with his bomb things, and sent them back, but they would just explode against the next thing he threw)
-pocket his side b and hold on to it and jump in to throw it (this one actually worked for a bit, but he realized he could just rush me to place the bomb on me. I would attack him and keep him away about half the time, but if he realized that it was about to blow up on him, he would just shield and roll away to reset)

But every once in a while he would throw in change-ups. They were all "predictable", but I still couldn't do anything about them.

His change-ups:
-If he got me above him, he would do aerial up a pretty much without fail. There was nothing I could do about it except avoid it. I must admit though, this was my biggest fault... Every time I was knocked in the air right above him, I tried to down a turnip him. And every single time I would get pummeled into the air by the dumb tornado.
-If he got me off the edge he would spike me downward with some sort of missile type thing.. and he was good at aiming it
-sometimes he would jump in the air to avoid my side b, and would leaf shield then roll forward, roll backward, and then dash grab. I actually got used to this one, but I didn't know how to attack him during it. Now that I think of it, I probably should have slingshot him... I was trying to grab/jab instead mostly, which was super ineffective
-His go to kill moves were backward aerial a (when he knew I was trying to attack him in the air), up smash when he knew I was trying to land back on him, and occasionally down smash when he thought I would roll into him (he didn't he me with that one very often though)
-up b, land back on dog, land back on dog, jump, up b, land back on dog, land back on dog, jump, etc. This was his main bait move so that he could get me with aerial back a. Sadly it worked... And if I camped the dog, he would just land really far away from me to reset things.

Between all of these, he kept things mixed up. It was like he had a solution to every situation. I felt so stupid fighting against it just because it seemed so formulaic, and I saw things coming, but couldn't do anything about it. He was obviously a better player than me though.

So anyways...

What to do about a campy mega man? Playing campy back didn't help me at all.

 

[hiramsthoughts]

I'm not sure if this has been talked about yhet or not, but this is what I found out:

Villager's pocketed projectiles last 30 seconds pocketed. 31 seconds and you just lose it, 30 seconds and you're fine. The cool thing is that grabable items such as Pacman's, can be repocketed. You can have it for 29 seconds on your pocket, pull it out with Special, and pocket it right bback pressing it again, giving you another 30 seconds. You can do this an infinite amount of times. The reason I think this is important is that Diddy's peels and Bowser Jr's Mechakoopas can be held for an infinite amount of time (or until you get knocked out), and in the meantime, since technically is still on the game, the can't spawn a new one, which is in my opinion a huge deal. Besides Vilager I'm trying to main BJR and I know his Mechakoopa is essential for ground control and I bet the case the same for Diddy. Just wanted to point this out since it will probably affect his match ups against those characters a lot, making them play differently than they normally would.

 

[mmik]

Pocket his upair! Super easy to pocket. Sounds like you could have baited him into using it, too. Then pop him in the air and launch it back at him.

 

[mmik]

I can't win against palutena. I get completely shut out.

 

[Zurangatang]

I can't win against palutena. I get completely shut out.

I dont think i've ever seen a Villager beat Palutena.

 

[Player-1]

I don't think the MU is that bad. Lloid rocket is still useful from a long range distance because you can run with it/past it meaning you can react her reflector. Baiting out the reflector and being ready to punish is pretty important. Come from above with a dair or you can even wait for the reflector to get sent out a bit and then start a dash attack as you pass through the reflector.

 

[Volya]

Yup, Rosalina & Luma is probably the char against i have the more difficulties.
There's two things that can help you beat Rosalina :
- Battlefield.
The stage is perfect for Vil (Tree on the edge of a platform, fsmash from a plateform, easy camping..) and VERY annoying for Rosalina. If you can choose the stage and if you're against her, pick BF.
- Go through the Luma to get Rosalina.
Ok this one seems a bit dumb but yeah : If rosalina don't keep her luma around her during the entire match, it will be easier for you to hit her. Just try to airdodge/roll/jump over the Luma and spam rosalina ASAP (start with a fair for example). You can also use your sideb to first hit Luma, 'cause this lil thingy won't be able to hit you for like 1sec after that.

IMO It's useless to focus Luma : He respawn wayyyyyyy too quickly and you don't have easy attack to kill him (except the axe maybe)

But yeah still, Villager/Rosalina matchup is probably more near 30/70 than 70/30

 

[mmik]

I feel this villager's pain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2xOQ79yhFk

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I don't think the MU is that bad. Lloid rocket is still useful from a long range distance because you can run with it/past it meaning you can react her reflector. Baiting out the reflector and being ready to punish is pretty important. Come from above with a dair or you can even wait for the reflector to get sent out a bit and then start a dash attack as you pass through the reflector.

but if you wait to pass by the reflector and dash attack she can already shield? Dash attack is an overcommitment in that scenario imo.

There is a timing where you can do it where your pot goes through the reflector but you don't, so it pushes you away & you still get the hit.

I've only gotten bodied by her tho so I might not even really know what I'm talking about