Unpopular Smash Ideas/Opinions [Be Nice]

[WeirdChillFever]

There was a previous thread like this, but it got locked. So I wanted to see if such a thread would be allowed again. My only wish is that you’re civil about it, and that you don’t target others. Welcoming the discussion, but not name-calling etc.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Battlefield would work better as a fighting stadium aesthetic than a ruins.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While there are parts that will age a bit, I think I'm slightly disappointed by the almost deliberately timeless nature of Ultimate's (and to a degree 4)'s overall feel and aesthetic.

Smash 64 was decently minimalist, going for the more basic and cartoony design certain 5th gen had to utilize for 3D game graphics to be practical. Melee was the last vestiges of the late 90s/early 2000s "tech of the future" trend, and Brawl went in for the more muted and "realistic" sense that was all the rage in the 7th gen.

Ultimate has its influences from stuff like Persona for menus and I'll give it credit for having an approachable feel for mass audiences, but I can't help but feel when looking back, it'll lack that overt capture of the contemporary period that many of its predecessors did. Though I suppose in the minds of some, having no overt identity does capture the feel of the modern era...

 

[Otoad64]

Dry Bones would be cool in Smash

I kinda like the idea of a character who can disassemble their body, maybe even use their head as a projectile or something?

And I mean, Dry Bones is just cool.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Dry Bones would be cool in Smash

I kinda like the idea of a character who can disassemble their body, maybe even use their head as a projectile or something?

And I mean, Dry Bones is just cool.

Also throwing bones like in Super Mario World.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

Hoping the thread stays open.

I think there's an attitude where people flatten Japanese art / games to mean "anime" in a borderline offensive way. Mascots are treated as western (even when created by Japanese artists) as if Japan doesn't have a huge culture surrounding mascots specifically. People will identify Final Fantasy or something as somehow more "Japanese" than Mario, Kirby, etc. despite them all being the creations of Japanese people. Usually this is done in defense of the more straightforwardly anime style - as if it's a pro-Japanese stance - which I think is ironic, if well-intentioned.

I also think it gets weird when you consider that narrowing down "anime" itself in this way is reductive - Mega Man would probably be viewed more as a mascot and less "anime" somehow despite being a direct riff on Astro Boy - is Tezuka's style not anime?

I dunno. It's complicated I guess.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Hoping the thread stays open.

I think there's an attitude where people flatten Japanese art / games to mean "anime" in a borderline offensive way. Mascots are treated as western (even when created by Japanese artists) as if Japan doesn't have a huge culture surrounding mascots specifically. People will identify Final Fantasy or something as somehow more "Japanese" than Mario, Kirby, etc. despite them all being the creations of Japanese people. Usually this is done in defense of the more straightforwardly anime style - as if it's a pro-Japanese stance - which I think is ironic, if well-intentioned.

I also think it gets weird when you consider that narrowing down "anime" itself in this way is reductive - Mega Man would probably be viewed more as a mascot and less "anime" somehow despite being a direct riff on Astro Boy - is Tezuka's style not anime?

I dunno. It's complicated I guess.

How the West percieves anime vs. what anime actually is in its home turf is something that's interested me for a while. I used to buy into that idea that "all anime looks the same" when, no, it's just that some anime is easier to export than others, and that's typically those that are outside the norms of Western animation and target an older demographic openly interested in the cultural differences, as opposed to little kids who wouldn't understand why Doraemon's house looks like that.

I do think the decision, whoever made it, if it was even concious, to distinguish "anime" from "cartoons" is one of the worst things that ever happened to animation discourse. This isn't relevant though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Hoping the thread stays open.

I think there's an attitude where people flatten Japanese art / games to mean "anime" in a borderline offensive way. Mascots are treated as western (even when created by Japanese artists) as if Japan doesn't have a huge culture surrounding mascots specifically. People will identify Final Fantasy or something as somehow more "Japanese" than Mario, Kirby, etc. despite them all being the creations of Japanese people. Usually this is done in defense of the more straightforwardly anime style - as if it's a pro-Japanese stance - which I think is ironic, if well-intentioned.

I also think it gets weird when you consider that narrowing down "anime" itself in this way is reductive - Mega Man would probably be viewed more as a mascot and less "anime" somehow despite being a direct riff on Astro Boy - is Tezuka's style not anime?

I dunno. It's complicated I guess.

There's a weirdness related to this because Japan has plenty of remaining cartoony characters that would gladly fit alongside a Mario or Sonic in Smash... but they often don't come from platformers or action-adventure games like so many in the West do and the exceptions lean towards the obscure even regionally. As a result, they tend to get overlooked despite their visual aesthetic perfectly fitting for a wacky platform fighter like Smash.

Arle from Puyo Puyo a great example; had she come from a series of 2D/3D platformer games and not Madō Monogatari/Puyo Puyo, she'd end up on more ranked lists if for other reason because the moveset would seem more obvious to a broader swath of fans. But with Madō Monogatari not having broken out in the West like other RPG's have, that game's roots as sub-genre that's pretty niche in the today's market (first person dungeon crawler), and Puyo Puyo's puzzle status making her moveset conception initially tricky to many people, she ends up less thought about then she warrants even with a distinct design.

I personally wonder if that's why Bomberman got a promotion to Mii costume and might end up in the next game (or at the very least why he's more easily considered); he's a prominent cartoony character from Japan that does have enough action adventure/platformer adjacent titles to fit into Smash while having a hypothetical moveset that's pretty natural to conceive of.

 

[FazDude]

Obligatory "Smash Run was fun" post.

i do actually believe this

 

[MartianSnake]

I kinda wish Big & Small Battlefield had their own aesthetics and titles. Final Destination feels like the odd one out. At the very least I always thought that like, one should be set to always night and another at always sunrise

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

i wish that Smash could have a new original stage that is not just Battlefield nor Final Destination,my dream stage would be have a aesthetic of Vaporwave,same from a stage from Smash Remix

 

[fogbadge]

The leak of Project Harmony gave me an idea: the next surprise character should be from unused content. I said it before as we’re all keeping an eye out for surprises they’re less surprising. But an unused character would be very unexpected.

now I don’t just mean unmade games like Kid Kirby it can be anything that didn’t make the cut. like the Golem made of Gorons from twilight princess or the beta version of Admiral Bobery

 

[TheZizz]

Pitfall Harry rivals Pac-Man for OG granddaddy headline mascots. And he's highly reminiscent of Indiana Jones and by extension LucasArts which has a long & storied history. Then the spaceship from Asteroids is an obvious candidate for assist trophies (or maybe something like the frog from Frogs n Flies if they want to be cute about it). Well if Crash manages to bring the ceiling down on his way in, being on Activision's payroll that would remove the pesky legal pitfall for our esteemed explorer (pun absolutely intended)

Here's to a rigorous quality standard for posts in this new thread, for those who can't be bothered to scroll past inconsequential walls of text

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The leak of Project Harmony gave me an idea: the next surprise character should be from unused content. I said it before as we’re all keeping an eye out for surprises they’re less surprising. But an unused character would be very unexpected.

now I don’t just mean unmade games like Kid Kirby it can be anything that didn’t make the cut. like the Golem made of Gorons from twilight princess or the beta version of Admiral Bobery

CatRoots plz

I think that technically Brawl!Sheik counts as this to an extent. At least if beta Bobbery would count too.

 

[Otoad64]

Incineroar was a better choice than Decidueye.

Incineroar has always been my favourite Gen 7 starter so I don’t know why I didn’t think this before. I guess because it wasn’t the “correct” opinion, and also “muh Grass starter”.

But yeah, I think he has a fighting style that fits Smash more, and has a more unique personality.

Nothing against Decidueye, I like it as a Pokémon a decent amount too. Though in terms of Smash (and kinda in general) I think I’d prefer Hisuian Decidueye or even Rowlet.

 

[fogbadge]

CatRoots plz

I think that technically Brawl!Sheik counts as this to an extent. At least if beta Bobbery would count too.

yes and no. according to the Zelda team they did make the design for brawl and there’s not much else to suggest she was ever actually planned to be in twilight princess

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

yes and no. according to the Zelda team they did make the design for brawl and there’s not much else to suggest she was ever actually planned to be in twilight princess

Note that the US and JP texts in the Hyrule Historia aren't entirely clear which way it went(the text is a bit vague on it). It could've been made for TP or Brawl first. I'm guessing it was Brawl first, but we don't have as strong of a confirmation as we thought anymore.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Note that the US and JP texts in the Hyrule Historia aren't entirely clear which way it went(the text is a bit vague on it). It could've been made for TP or Brawl first. I'm guessing it was Brawl first, but we don't have as strong of a confirmation as we thought anymore.

Unless it was very early in development for TP, I always assumed the design was made for Brawl by the Zelda team.

Also Sheik in Brawl was another example of having a weapon but never using it since she had a knife in her 3D model in Brawl and Smash 4 but she didn’t use it. It was added as her Final Smash in Ultimate but the knife was removed from her model.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unless it was very early in development for TP, I always assumed the design was made for Brawl by the Zelda team.

Also Sheik in Brawl was another example of having a weapon but never using it since she had a knife in her 3D model in Brawl and Smash 4 but she didn’t use it. It was added as her Final Smash in Ultimate but the knife was removed from her model.

Depending upon the art, it looks like the Knife may be almost sword-like(a Short Sword), or sometimes smaller. Hyrule Warriors makes it a Kunai as an option(which fits her Ninja Motif better, anyway).

Zelda Wiki goes the direction of "was made for TP", but they're a fan wiki, so~

 

[UserKev]

Smash could REALLY use a character variation system.

Much like what Mortal Kombat X introduced, variations in Smash would largely benefit the roster. Every character could literally take unique moves from source material and incorporate them into variations. Imagine every move that would be essentially given to an additional character, Mario's Ground Pound, DK's Barrels, Ridley's Pogo Tail, Lucas PK Ground, etc. It would be a neat feature that would make overhaul problems all go away.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smash could REALLY use a character variation system.

View attachment 401336

Much like what Mortal Kombat X introduced, variations in Smash would largely benefit the roster. Every character could literally take unique moves from source material and incorporate them into variations. Imagine every move that would be essentially given to an additional character, Mario's Ground Pound, DK's Barrels, Ridley's Pogo Tail, Lucas PK Ground, etc. It would be a neat feature that would make overhaul problems all go away.

Is this not a form of custom moves? Smash did try something like this once.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Is this not a form of custom moves? Smash did try something like this once.

Moveset variations in MKX added completely different moves to characters, not just stuff like "bigger but slower Fireball".

 

[UserKev]

Is this not a form of custom moves? Smash did try something like this once.

Yes but more simplified. Variations would be a twist.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think it'd be pretty cool if they remixed more music from older games, like Duel Zone (Fighting Polygon Team) and Meta Crystal (Metal Mario (64)).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Obligatory "Smash Run was fun" post.

i do actually believe this

I don't think that's really an unpopular opinion. Pretty sure of the single player modes of Smash For, Smash Run was the most favored.

Now if you said "Smash Tour was fun", that is an unpopular opinion.

....I didn't mind Smash Tour.

 

[FazDude]

…I meant Smash Tour. Dammit, me.

 

[Perkilator]

Welp, might as well make the most of this relative peace.

• I don’t want a Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate. I want a new game with original ideas.
• Meowth should’ve been one of the OG 12 instead of Jigglypuff, time constraints be damned.
• Maybe it’s because I never grew up with 64, but I was never really enthused by the concept of Board the Platforms. Even Ultimate’s bonus game was more exciting.
• I greatly prefer Spirits to Trophies. Not only because they take far less dev time in comparison, but because (most of) the Spirit Battles are really fun and creative.
• I never liked the idea of using DLC to promote an Assist Trophy to playable in the same game (Spirits are fine in this regard, though). It would be less hassle to wait until the base roster of the next Smash game to do that so the DLC dev time can be spent on characters that otherwise have no presence in Smash at all.
• Ultimate’s hard limit of exactly 8 alts per character deadass kinda sucks. Wario in Brawl had 12 alts, and Little Mac in Sm4sh had 16 alts. 16 alts should’ve totally been feasible for at least a handful of characters.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think the next Smash game should have an Adventure Mode similar to Melee's Adventure Mode, where you go through stages based on worlds from various franchises. Where you start could depend on the character you play as.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

Arle from Puyo Puyo a great example; had she come from a series of 2D/3D platformer games and not Madō Monogatari/Puyo Puyo, she'd end up on more ranked lists if for other reason because the moveset would seem more obvious to a broader swath of fans. But with Madō Monogatari not having broken out in the West like other RPG's have, that game's roots as sub-genre that's pretty niche in the today's market (first person dungeon crawler), and Puyo Puyo's puzzle status making her moveset conception initially tricky to many people, she ends up less thought about then she warrants even with a distinct design.

I personally wonder if that's why Bomberman got a promotion to Mii costume and might end up in the next game (or at the very least why he's more easily considered); he's a prominent cartoony character from Japan that does have enough action adventure/platformer adjacent titles to fit into Smash while having a hypothetical moveset that's pretty natural to conceive of.

Arle is definitely one of the most obvious exclusions and it plays in nicely to the whole anime discussion too. One part of it is definitely the RPG / puzzle vs platformer stuff as you pointed out, for sure.

But the ironic / weird thing is that I always envision Arle in her Compile-era form, which seems kinda obvious to me given the cultural context / when the series peaked in Japan. The Puyo fanbase in the West seems to have distaste for this suggestion and I've seen the Compile artstyle dismissed as "generic anime" - which, to me, seems totally reductive and untrue. I think the art of the 90s Puyo stuff is wonderful and whimsical and blatantly Nintendo-esque despite obviously being, well, "anime" - which just shows how useless of a label that really is. You'd also think the RPG roots would make moveset-crafting a pretty easy affair in peoples' eyes, but I dunno. A lot of discourse around movesets seems very black-and-white where, if the character is very obviously combat-ready (sword or other weapon on-hand), they'd obviously fit well - and if they're not, it gets dismissed as a "what would they even do". I actually think the weapon-wielders tend to be less interesting because it becomes easier to default to very expected and obvious attacks whereas not having a weapon outright turns the moveset into a wacky toybox of potential.

On the topic of Bomberman - the idea of him being able to hurt himself with his own bombs, translating the gameplay of the series directly over into Smash to some extent, is always the idea I fell in love with for him.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

But the ironic / weird thing is that I always envision Arle in her Compile-era form, which seems kinda obvious to me given the cultural context / when the series peaked in Japan. The Puyo fanbase in the West seems to have distaste for this suggestion and I've seen the Compile artstyle dismissed as "generic anime" - which, to me, seems totally reductive and untrue. I think the art of the 90s Puyo stuff is wonderful and whimsical and blatantly Nintendo-esque despite obviously being, well, "anime" - which just shows how useless of a label that really is. You'd also think the RPG roots would make moveset-crafting a pretty easy affair in peoples' eyes, but I dunno. A lot of discourse around movesets seems very black-and-white where, if the character is very obviously combat-ready (sword or other weapon on-hand), they'd obviously fit well - and if they're not, it gets dismissed as a "what would they even do". I actually think the weapon-wielders tend to be less interesting because it becomes easier to default to very expected and obvious attacks whereas not having a weapon outright turns the moveset into a wacky toybox of potential.

I (as a non-Puyo fan) prefer the modern art style, but I can also completely relate to this feeling of preferring an "unpreferred" iteration of a character. Classic Sonic is my rework dream (since that's an unpopular opinion now); I was always interested in Classic DK as at least an echo before recent developments; I think biker Wario as default just makes sense; I prefer Jigglypuff as an unexpressive character (pre-Brawl) over an expressive one (post-Brawl); I prefer Tingle with a realistic appearance (Like in MM or the Tingle game box arts) over a cartoonish one (like WW or in-game in the Tingle games); I've always wanted a small bit of US Ness influence (at least the eyebrows and hair, not the height/older appearance) - hell, while I think this shouldn't apply to Smash just due to how obscure these designs are, my favourite iterations of Mario and Pac-Man aesthetically are the ones from Saturday Supercade and the Hanna-Barbera show. Getting into characters I don't care for in whole, N&B Banjo and Manual Ridley both strike me as appealing design choices, and while I prefer the canon appearance, Bad Box Art Mega Man would be a banger fighter of his own.

 

[Lenidem]

I never liked the idea of using DLC to promote an Assist Trophy to playable in the same game (Spirits are fine in this regard, though). It would be less hassle to wait until the base roster of the next Smash game to do that so the DLC dev time can be spent on characters that otherwise have no presence in Smash at all.

I kinda agree with this. If you are already in Smash in some capacity, leat someone else go in next: it's like those people who sit in a crowded bus with their bag on another seat. That being said, I would have prefered a Spring-Man promotion over Min-Min. I like that main hero/mascot gets priority.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

For fear of coming off as confrontational...

Smash fans are way too obssessed with imaginary scenarios about going back in time. That's a fun thought experiment when considering things like fandom response; changes in source materials, sure, but if you want - I dunno, let's say Dr. Kawashima - you could just say you want that now, not to magic him into Brawl. It might be too late looking at the way Smash does things, but it shouldn't be. I guess it does kinda say a lot about Smash heirarchy that we're more willing to say "go back in time like Free Birds to the GameCube game and put in Scizor then" instead of just saying "I want Scizor now."

 

[Guynamednelson]

If you are already in Smash in some capacity, leat someone else go in next: it's like those people who sit in a crowded bus with their bag on another seat

Ehhh...you can't exactly stop this from happening when it's inevitable whenever Smash adds a first-party that didn't debut after the last game. That's just one of many problems I have with the idea.

I guess it does kinda say a lot about Smash heirarchy that we're more willing to say "go back in time like Free Birds to the GameCube game and put in Scizor then" instead of just saying "I want Scizor now."

They're gonna need to do a looooot more in the past than just delaying Melee to get Scizor in Pichu's place anyway. If it wasn't for Melee having one year of development it'd be the marketing for Gold and Silver that got Pichu in.

 

[fogbadge]

Note that the US and JP texts in the Hyrule Historia aren't entirely clear which way it went(the text is a bit vague on it). It could've been made for TP or Brawl first. I'm guessing it was Brawl first, but we don't have as strong of a confirmation as we thought anymore.

the copy I have specifies it was made for brawl

 

[WeirdChillFever]

For fear of coming off as confrontational...

Smash fans are way too obssessed with imaginary scenarios about going back in time. That's a fun thought experiment when considering things like fandom response; changes in source materials, sure, but if you want - I dunno, let's say Dr. Kawashima - you could just say you want that now, not to magic him into Brawl. It might be too late looking at the way Smash does things, but it shouldn't be. I guess it does kinda say a lot about Smash heirarchy that we're more willing to say "go back in time like Free Birds to the GameCube game and put in Scizor then" instead of just saying "I want Scizor now."

Especially since Smash movesets don’t evolve too much between installments. A returning Scizor in Ultimate that was added in Melee would play approximately the same as the Scizor added in Melee. I think the difference in moveset design between Ultimate newcomers and Melee newcomers is generally overblown, but could be a consideration for those that want their newcomer of choice to have a more basic, less reference-heavy set.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

This is a random fun one but one of my most wanted characters that almost certainly wouldn't go over well with the general fanbase, if anyone, is Sokoban - the titular "Warehouse Keeper" himself.

I think by pretty much any metric he "deserves" to be in, not only based on the long history and huge number of games, but cheekily representing the oft-maligned style of puzzle his series more or less introduced into the wider gaming playbook (Zelda, Pokemon, countless other mainstream / Nintendo games have Sokoban puzzles - not to mention the countless riffs on the concept throughout the years including indie stuff like Handshakes and Baba Is You). It's also a scientifically interesting game in terms of researching...things that are way above my pay grade.

Mechanically the idea might sound like a dead end but if you broaden the scope to include common mechanics introduced in variants of Sokoban on top of the main box-themed stuff, there's a ton of potential. Just a rough idea:

Neutral Special - Box Placement
There's three types of boxes that you will place in a set order (think: how Sora cycles through his spells or Olimar's Pikmin have to be "used" to cycle through the types): Wooden Box, Ice Block, and Metal Crate. The boxes are used via...

Side Special - Box Push (Not Pull!)
So this is like a command grab - the animation is him reaching out and moving forward as if to grab and push a box. If it hits an opponent you just grab them like a normal grab (albeit a longer reach). If it connects with a box, however, it...pushes it. Wooden Crates are light, being pushed the fastest, and will damage opponents a low to moderate amount if caught in the pushing path. Ice Blocks will slide until hitting something (at which point it will shatter and inflict freeze) and leaves the floor temporarily icy (slippery) as it passes over it. Metal Crates are bulky and can't be broken by attacks, but if you manage to push one into someone despite the slow push speed, it's big damage and knockback. All boxes can be pushed off of ledges and will react appropriately (Wooden breaks, Ice continues to slide along the new surface, Metal lands with a thud). Boxes can obviously also serve as cover etc.

Up Special - Teleport Pad
Sokoban places a teleporter pad on the ground where he's standing (or drops it below him if he's in the air). A second use will have him drop/place a second teleporter pad below himself, activating the link between the two pads and swapping the positions of whatever is currently on both of the pads. Usually this will just mean teleporting yourself back on-stage, but creative use can have you teleporting opponents off-stage, teleporting boxes around (including to a mid-air position to then plummet down upon foes), etc.

Down Special - Undo
Takes the quality of life feature found in most decent Soko games and interprets it quite literally, as a full-blown Braid-style rewind. Hold down Special to "rewind" your actions in reverse - i imagine this would have to have a pretty strict time limit, but could lead to crazy mix-ups and a lot of weird tripped out plays. This is a move that would have to be implemented carefully but could become the key to making the character shine.

Final Smash - Payday / Retirement
Sokoban has finally saved up enough money to buy the hot rod he's had his eyes on (as seen in Super Sokoban) and he, I guess, runs over foes, launching them into a cinematic of them being overwhelmed and trapped by boxes in a warehouse as he cruises off into the sunset - or something. I dunno.

Realistically, Lolo would be a more digestable and likely representative for this genre. But a man can dream.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the next Smash game should have Tekken-style sidestepping as a 1v1-exclusive gameplay mechanic. The idea with this is that you hold the Shield button and then press up or down to rotate the stage. The rest of the core gameplay would remain unchanged.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think the next game's music direction should take a turn primarily to rock and jazz-funk/fusion, which may include the main theme. A majority of Smash music has been pretty orchestral since Melee.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think my most wanted mechanical change for Smash - or any platfighter - is a strong/light special system. That kills two of my personal problems with the platfighter genre as it exists today with one stone: it allows more defense/non-damage moves like FLUDD to be added, and also allows you to get rid of side specials and all the awkwardness they give in movement without having to cut moves or decrease the mechanical depth of a toolkit. There are some other upsides too I think (more non-recovery up specials could be neat), but I also think it would only work with strong airs as well, I don't want a special-move-centric game.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Source accuracy is admirable up to a point, but very easily becomes detrimental, and in some cases outright misses the appeal of a character just for the sake of making them "accurate" when it'd feel more accurate for them to be done differently.

Steve's a great example of this. Putting aside tournament viability or whatever, it's undeniably impressive on a mechanical level that the mining and crafting systems exist in a playable state on every single stage. The problem is that I think he's way too complex compared to the rest of the cast, not only to the point of putting off people who are likely to recognise him as more casual players and give him a go, but also that his design just doesn't fit Minecraft's simpler feel compared to other games. (Don't get me wrong, this isn't me saying Steve "doesn't fit Smash", more that I think his moveset is way too complex to capture his vibe.)

Like, there's certain instances of this that are pretty cool, but there's also a point when it just becomes way too much.