Version 1.1.0 Changes Thread

[LIQUID12A]

Post any and all changes to Bowser in the latest patch here.

Buffs:

- Dsmash angle changed from 60 to 48
-
-

Nerfs:

-
-
-

And before you ask, Bowsercide still kills Bowser first.

 

[Hitman JT]

No damage changes. Everything seems the same. Someone else will have to test hitboxes and frame data.

 

[pitfall356]

So far people are saying that Dsmash has a changed angle. Specifically, they claim it's changed from 60 to 48. Seems like an odd change to make, but it gives Dsmash more kill power since more knockback is angled towards the side blast zones instead of into the uppermost corner.

 

[MrEh]

Man Sakurai why.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

D smash is still pretty ehh. Should of just gave it a straight knockback increased.

 

[Dark Phazon]

D smash is still pretty ehh. Should of just gave it a straight knockback increased.

I definetly agree

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

Glad to see you agree with me. Kinda sad Bowser still has a half-assed combo grab compared to other heavy weights =/. Was at least expecting his up throw to have less end lag. Sighs....

 

[x45x]

I mean they need to be so careful. Bowser with a change or two will be broken pretty fast. I do agree his combo throw should be better. But if they buff him too much he will very quickly be broken. Same with Marth and Meta Knight, theirs buffs have been slowly coming out. Small little steps.

 

[NateLinhart]

Can someone test fair? Also, they do need to be careful with Bowser. I agree he would be broken with some fixes. But they should increase his aerials frame data in my opinion.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

All he really needs is some sort of buff to his aerials and up throw to be more consistent. I'm glad d smash was at least touched. Even then he's still got an amazing punish game, pivot grab and racks up % quick. He's not too bad, just needs a couple of fixes down the road.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Let's all go on for glory and lose to scrubs. If we do it enough times maybe samurai will buff bowser!

 

[Jerodak]

The main issue with up throw is that your opponent holding away makes it very difficult, if not impossible, at mid-high percents to follow up, but other than that Bowser can get combos going pretty late as long as he can reach the opponent, the only thing they could do to fix this is either more range on his aerials, faster and/or higher jumps, or by making D.I on the throw much less or removing it entirely. I guess better frame data on aerials could also help, and maybe less end lag on the throw, but it already ends pretty fast, and I don't think Bowser really needs any major aerial buffs to be honest. Maybe something will be done about it eventually, but in the meantime, I think the solution would be to make the most of the throw anyway. We already know that holding away can avoid follow-ups at later percents, so the next step is finding options that punish holding away. By doing so, the opponent willingly gives up stage control, and you can still get a landing trap out of it. Up throwing while facing offstage might be a good idea too, since if they hold away they are helping you set-up an edgeguard and if they hold towards you should still be able to get the Fair or air dodge bait -> Up-air mix-up.

Also @ ImaClubYou Welcome back.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Thanks it's been a while. I'm still reppin king koopa!

 

[Jerodak]

Good to hear, there might be a lot for you to catch up on, everyone's been putting in a lot of work to develop Bowser's metagame. Unless you've just been lurking or something and are up to date already. In either case, if there's something you need help with I'll be happy to help.

 

[S_B]

Uncanny. I was just making dinner, thinking about how badly Dsmash sucks, before I sat down to see that this was also a balance patch and they touched Dsmash, though it sounds like it still sucks...

 

[Jerodak]

The new angle might make it better for edgeguarding, it may stage spike more reliably, and the lower angle means more reliable K.O potential.

 

[NateLinhart]

I can't wait to truly test the new down smash angle this weekend. Has anyone been testing it since last night? I use down smash to edgeguard when they are at kill percent. Hoping this new angle kills earlier.

 

[S_B]

I just klawed clean through a Lucas and it didn't register. I hope that's not a "buff" Sakurai added... :\

 

[Cassius.]

It's always whiffed point blank occasionally. The hitbox is ****ed.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Pivot grab still in?

Klaw still crap and reverse fortress doesn't auto snap to ledge still.

 

[S_B]

The new angle might make it better for edgeguarding, it may stage spike more reliably, and the lower angle means more reliable K.O potential.

I guess if the person is regrabbing the ledge, sure.

Though, I actually just killed a Yoshi at ~140 near the middle of the stage because it flung him horizontally instead of diagonally, so I suppose this IS technically a buff.

Did a quick run through to see if anything else had changed and I couldn't find anything. Did the bobomb test to see if anything was changed like fortress gaining invincibility on startup or something and no such change (we can always dream, right?).

Anyone want to test the strength of Bowser's input vs. his opponent on klaw again?

 

[LIQUID12A]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

Yup. Only one change.

But is it a good or bad one? I don't get it myself.

 

[Jerodak]

@ S_B yep, pretty much. I usually go for it sometimes after ledge trumping if my opponent goes low. However it can beat a lot of ledge options and can even scoop up certain characters if they miss the sweet spot either from messing up, trying to delay, or if you nail the snap-back timing.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Pivot grab is still in.

Shad specials are in.

Jab traps intact.

Any tough guy changes?

 

[S_B]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

Yup. Only one change.

But is it a good or bad one? I don't get it myself.

It's good, but it's not game changing in any way.

 

[NateLinhart]

At least he didn't go completely untouched

 

[MagiusNecros]

They need to just fix Klaw. Every patch just tells me to use dash slash.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Spotdodge, and rolls got nerfed by 1 frame for whatever reason.

New Spotdodge: 4-19 (From 4-20)
New Rolls: 4-20 (From 4-21)

 

[S_B]

Spotdodge, and rolls got nerfed by 1 frame for whatever reason.

New Spotdodge: 4-19 (From 4-20)
New Rolls: 4-20 (From 4-21)

Wait, on Bowser or everyone?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wait, on Bowser or everyone?

everyone, I'm just posting the changes to Bowser's.

Lucario's Roll is like, 4-13 LOL

 

[S_B]

Indeed...

I guess people DID complain that the game was "too defensive"...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's alright, this is good for us in the long run. Our roll/spotdodge invincibility is still pretty long, but everyone elses is just terrible.

Little Mac's are 4-13

Sheik's/Pikachu's are 4-16 etc...

 

[Jerodak]

Yeah, this is still way better than the Brawl rolls. Does this apply to ledge rolls or any other universal I-frames?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just defensive shield options.

 

[33percentgod]

WHY DOES BOWSER STILL REFUSE TO GRAB THE LEDGE

 

[Jerodak]

WHY DOES BOWSER STILL REFUSE TO GRAB THE LEDGE

You must learn to look deep within, to become a master of the spin... be the shell!

But really it just takes caution when going offstage. Bowser can net huge rewards for offstage edge guards. However the risk is just as high. Going off backwards can help to ease the risk because you can snap much more quickly if you miss, not to mention bair being one of the most deadly offstage aerials by terms of k.o power. However, you then have less range and coverage to work with. This is also why the removal of edge cancel klaw really kinda stings a bit.

 

[Hitman JT]

Well nerfing the invincibility for everybody is a step in the right direction...but most rolls are still stupidly fast.

What did rolls look like in Brawl? I never studied frames in that game.

 

[Big Sean]

Wait so roll still takes the same amount of time to complete but the invincibility has been decreased? And this is true for every character across the board?

 

[33percentgod]

You must learn to look deep within, to become a master of the spin... be the shell!

But really it just takes caution when going offstage. Bowser can net huge rewards for offstage edge guards. However the risk is just as high. Going off backwards can help to ease the risk because you can snap much more quickly if you miss, not to mention bair being one of the most deadly offstage aerials by terms of k.o power. However, you then have less range and coverage to work with. This is also why the removal of edge cancel klaw really kinda stings a bit.

I have been punished match after match because apparently Bowser either;

1. Won't grab the ledge and you just flash downward towards your death.
2. Completely bypasses the ledge and has to do the full "getting up" animation, which allows your opponent to bust your head open.


Just snap to the GD ledge like all the other characters in the game like normal. Why is this such a thing with Bowser? Holy moses.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wait so roll still takes the same amount of time to complete but the invincibility has been decreased? And this is true for every character across the board?

Yes. Yes.