Wario Changes Patch 1.08

[Zenitho]

Would be cool to see if Wario got a buff or two.. Anyone find anything interesting? Post your findings here! I believe that Wario's upair has greater KBG now, would love someone to check on that for me.

 

[Magik0722]

Nintendo has forsaken us since wectoring.

 

[Rakurai]

At this point, all I'd ask for is that uair be returned to its former glory, and that forward smash be faster, even at the expense of some power.

The only change that was confirmed is the fixing of some wacky bike physics. Namely, the ones that allowed for the silly boomerang bike glitch with the Speeding Bike custom.

 

[Vyrnx]

I had heard the the glitch where when you got hit jumping off the bike the bike spun off in the opposite direction had been fixed, but it happened to me in FG. Or maybe it was something slightly different. Idk.

 

[xzx]

I cannot confirm this, but it feels very much that Wario's jab connects much better now. I tested it in training mode against a CPU Wario from 0%-200% and the jab always connected. I mixed up the percentages and how close I stood next to Wario. Lucario's jab connects better now so it would be weird if they didn't do that for Wario. Can anyone else test Wario's jab connection please?

 

[Waroh]

The only change that was confirmed is the fixing of some wacky bike physics. Namely, the ones that allowed for the silly boomerang bike glitch with the Speeding Bike custom.

It was not confirmed. In fact, I've already disconfirmed it back in the other thread.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I am OK with no changes to Wario. Knowing the way Sakurai patches stuff he would nerf Chomp or Waft, or even fix ledge-cancelled bike.

The only buff I really really want is increased knockback on Warios fair.

 

[Roots]

Every patch I'm dreading when Sakurai decides Wario gets nerfed because his bike is one big newbie killer

The only buff I really really want is increased knockback on Warios fair.

Why fair? Why not the more obvious uair?

 

[Steeler]

I think Wario is in a good place and does very well when behind in comparison to the rest of the cast. That said, nair or uair buffs would be fantastic. Nair if the sweetspot were active for more than a frame or if the sourspot led to combos for longer. Uair if it were better at either leading to combos or KOs. Not great at either one right now.

 

[xzx]

Okay nevermind, I don't think jab got buffed after all...

 

[Kai_64]

Wario's fair does 8% instead of 7 now. It could be placebo but I feel like Nair hits a little better.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario's fair does 8% instead of 7 now. It could be placebo but I feel like Nair hits a little better.

Does it always do 8% in training mode? (can't check/compare right now)

 

[Kai_64]

Does it always do 8% in training mode? (can't check/compare right now)

I didn't think so but after testing again last night it was only doing 7%. Idk what I was doing to make it do 8 but it was...

 

[Spinosaurus]

I didn't think so but after testing again last night it was only doing 7%. Idk what I was doing to make it do 8 but it was...

Freshness bonus. Training mode doesn't have it, though, so the damage is always consistent.

 

[Kai_64]

Freshness bonus. Training mode doesn't have it, though, so the damage is always consistent.

Ahh. Ok thanks

 

[xzx]

Welp, it turned out I was right about his Jab, it got BUFFED! It's stats got altered so the move connects better now. Also, jab 2 got an added hitbox. I read this on the official thread for patch 1.0.8.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Thank god, Wario's jab would stop connecting after like 50% and became useless.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I still have people getting out of Jab at various percents. I saw the changes, but it doesn't really feel any better.

 

[Strawhat64]

All I want for xmas from Sakurai:

- The ability to toss wheels, which would lead to sick Wario combos
- Brawl's F-smash, at least withouth the super armor.
- Uair knockback.

That is all.

 

[xzx]

I still have people getting out of Jab at various percents. I saw the changes, but it doesn't really feel any better.

Wario's jab does connect better, but not all the time. It needs to get tweaked more, but I guess Sakurai doesn't care about Wario at all... I think the problem is that the first hit pops opponents into the air (away from Wario) while Wario himself doesn't travel at all, unlike in Brawl. Maybe they did so to just make sure Wario couldn't get anything from a Jab 1...

-----------------

In my opinion, Wario needs more tweaks and buffs in general. Up-air needs to be a KO move. Dair needs better connection/hitstun and power, also less lag. Nair needs increased hitbox sizes and the first hit needs more active frames. The wheels and his Brawl F-smash should do a comeback too. This is just some of the things I want Sakurai to AT LEAST look on.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Jab doesn't really matter as it is, because D-Tilt is better in almost every relevant way. I suppose Jab does more guaranteed damage at low percents, but it did that just as well before the patch.

U-Air is a fine move as it is; the relatively low knockback stats make it a great combo tool until triple-digit percents, and it's still pretty disjointed, even if it's not as big as in Brawl.

D-Air already has increased hitlag on the final hit (to make teching harder), the same disjoint as Brawl, has potential to spike people, and is more powerful by virtue of the lack of momentum canceling.

N-Air is rather good as it is, but I agree with the idea of one or two more active frames on the sweetspot. Landing it reliably can be a chore at times, and I don't think any other N-Air has such a large space of time with a lack of hitboxes between the sweetspot and sourspot frames. The hitbox size is reasonable, though; the sweetspot seems as big as in Brawl, and the sourspot is big enough to still be fine.

Brawl F-Smash was an obnoxious move that was more acceptable because Wario otherwise had a pretty terrible set of ground options. With so much of Wario's ground kit getting huge boosts, the new F-Smash seems appropriate. It's seems to be just as powerful as the original F-Smash (and boosted by Rage now), and it has some usefulness in its lean-back-on-startup property.

Holdable tires would potentially make Wario obnoxiously good. The flexibility they would provide for punishing and covering multiple options seems like too much. Be glad you can heal off them and call it a day.

 

[WwwWario]

Jab doesn't really matter as it is, because D-Tilt is better in almost every relevant way. I suppose Jab does more guaranteed damage at low percents, but it did that just as well before the patch.

U-Air is a fine move as it is; the relatively low knockback stats make it a great combo tool until triple-digit percents, and it's still pretty disjointed, even if it's not as big as in Brawl.

D-Air already has increased hitlag on the final hit (to make teching harder), the same disjoint as Brawl, has potential to spike people, and is more powerful by virtue of the lack of momentum canceling.

N-Air is rather good as it is, but I agree with the idea of one or two more active frames on the sweetspot. Landing it reliably can be a chore at times, and I don't think any other N-Air has such a large space of time with a lack of hitboxes between the sweetspot and sourspot frames. The hitbox size is reasonable, though; the sweetspot seems as big as in Brawl, and the sourspot is big enough to still be fine.

Brawl F-Smash was an obnoxious move that was more acceptable because Wario otherwise had a pretty terrible set of ground options. With so much of Wario's ground kit getting huge boosts, the new F-Smash seems appropriate. It's seems to be just as powerful as the original F-Smash (and boosted by Rage now), and it has some usefulness in its lean-back-on-startup property.

Holdable tires would potentially make Wario obnoxiously good. The flexibility they would provide for punishing and covering multiple options seems like too much. Be glad you can heal off them and call it a day.

Good points. Wario is such an interesting character.


But... Wario can SPIKE?! Why have I never heard of this before?! Do you need to hit on the tip of the hitbox on the final Dair hit?

Also, when talking about it: The difference between a meteor and a spike is...?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Good points. Wario is such an interesting character.

But... Wario can SPIKE?! Why have I never heard of this before?! Do you need to hit on the tip of the hitbox on the final Dair hit?

Also, when talking about it: The difference between a meteor and a spike is...?

Meteors and spikes are the same thing in Smash 4, because meteor canceling (jumping out of the downward knockback) is no longer possible; it was possible in Melee and Brawl. They were otherwise the same thing in Melee and Brawl.

Wario's D-Air has five linking hits made of two hitboxes for each before the final hit: One located around his chest/chin and another that's the top of his head and somewhat below it (it has a generous disjoint). The lower hitbox sends people upward and the higher hitbox sends people downward; that's how it keeps people in the attack before the final hit.

If the opponent is in range of both hitboxes at once, the lower one has priority, so getting a spike is pretty uncommon. However, the two situations I find it happens with some regularly would be as follows:

Do a rising D-Air and attempting to move out of range yourself by moving horizontally (move away from your opponent). If you anticipate an airdodge while edgeguarding, you can fastfall down past them and double-jump a D-Air to land this.

Alternatively, if a linking hit of your D-Air trades with another person's attack (usually if it hits you from the side), you won't get any more linking hits to cancel the previous momentum because you've been hit, and if the one hit you get is the downward-angle attack, it will spike.

It's not an especially powerful spike, but if you get someone at around the stage's edge and they don't have a double-jump, most Up-Bs will not be enough to save them. It's also set-knockback, so this is just as effective at 0% as it is at 150%.

 

[WwwWario]

Meteors and spikes are the same thing in Smash 4, because meteor canceling (jumping out of the downward knockback) is no longer possible; it was possible in Melee and Brawl. They were otherwise the same thing in Melee and Brawl.

Wario's D-Air has five linking hits made of two hitboxes for each before the final hit: One located around his chest/chin and another that's the top of his head and somewhat below it (it has a generous disjoint). The lower hitbox sends people upward and the higher hitbox sends people downward; that's how it keeps people in the attack before the final hit.

If the opponent is in range of both hitboxes at once, the lower one has priority, so getting a spike is pretty uncommon. However, the two situations I find it happens with some regularly would be as follows:

Do a rising D-Air and attempting to move out of range yourself by moving horizontally (move away from your opponent). If you anticipate an airdodge while edgeguarding, you can fastfall down past them and double-jump a D-Air to land this.

Alternatively, if a linking hit of your D-Air trades with another person's attack (usually if it hits you from the side), you won't get any more linking hits to cancel the previous momentum because you've been hit, and if the one hit you get is the downward-angle attack, it will spike.

It's not an especially powerful spike, but if you get someone at around the stage's edge and they don't have a double-jump, most Up-Bs will not be enough to save them. It's also set-knockback, so this is just as effective at 0% as it is at 150%.

Aha. So, if the upper hitbox has the final hit (the one around the chest), it will result in a spike?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Aha. So, if the upper hitbox has the final hit (the one around the chest), it will result in a spike?

If the last thing that hits is one of the linking hitboxes, yes. If you get the final hit that sends away, all hitboxes will send out like normal.

It's not at all intentional and is just abusing the the fact that the linking hits are just trying to send people up-down repeatedly until the final hit.

 

[WwwWario]

If the last thing that hits is one of the linking hitboxes, yes. If you get the final hit that sends away, all hitboxes will send out like normal.

It's not at all intentional and is just abusing the the fact that the linking hits are just trying to send people up-down repeatedly until the final hit.

Man, that's not easy. The hitboxes link so well, and it's hard to move out of the attack before the final hit. Still a neat fact.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If it were easy, you probably would have known about it by now.

 

[shoff]

Not sure if its a general game change type mechanic, but Wario can no longer dash and hit certain opponents before they snap to the ledge.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's always been like that. It's never hit especially below the ledge; some people just rise up beyond the ledge.

 

[shoff]

Previously I could hit characters like or Captain Falcon or Ness before they ledge snapped, now I cannot. I tested it against Falcon a great deal on the 3ds the other day, not yet on the Wii U. But it is gone. I even have a few vids of me doing it before the patch. I was hoping someone here noticed it as well. I plan on testing the extended fart using the bike on the ledge to see if that has changed also.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Dash Attack hasn't changed in any patches; you can still hit those characters if they don't snap to the ledge before they go above it.

 

[shoff]

But I cant haha. It may be a change to ledge mechanics? I am going to test it again, but I tested it for a good 20 minutes with a top falcon player and verified it. Even he noticed it didnt work anymore, as I did it quite often, getting the gimp, or setting up for one. the dash would send them slightly under the stage and towards it.

Here's a clip of me doing it a while ago, it does not work anymore, try it.

 

[Magik0722]

Are you sure you werent using it before when they had already grabbed the ledge once before?

 

[shoff]

Are you sure you werent using it before when they had already grabbed the ledge once before?

Nope. Made sure they stood on a platform first. Its gone, test it. I hope I am just doing it wrong, but 95 percent sure its gone. Which is really bad.

 

[Kaora]

I noticed the exact same thing. Before the patch I could get it like 50% of the time against char like captain falcon, and now I can't do it anymore, like never.
Pretty sad about it, was getting a lot of kill with it ='(

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Nope. Made sure they stood on a platform first. Its gone, test it. I hope I am just doing it wrong, but 95 percent sure its gone. Which is really bad.

That suuuuucks. If you got the timing down right, you could actually dsmash Captain Falcon away from the ledge before he grabbed it, and it was a guaranteed death(by gimping) at mid-percents.

 

[shoff]

Exactly, gone poof. This was my biggest advantage in the ness and falcon matchup. So lame. But I am wondering if this is a change to the slide or a change to ledge snap mechanics? If so this means that we get no more free extended farts on the bike as characters try to grab the ledge.

 

[ElDood]

I noticed the exact same thing. Before the patch I could get it like 50% of the time against char like captain falcon, and now I can't do it anymore, like never.
Pretty sad about it, was getting a lot of kill with it ='(

Me too. Can also confirm it being gone. I was wondering why I couldn't pull it off anymore. At first I thought I had just begun to suck, but now that others have confirmed it, I can stop fruitlessly running into the edge and giving up my bite mixups.