Cactuarz
Smash Ace
I'm saving backups of the weekly chats for everyoen to read. We get sidetrracked slightly but here we go
Week 1: fox
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:16 PM): add him =o h
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:22 PM): it didn't work
theqerb (8:52:22 PM): i did!
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:27 PM): or he cancled on accidenet
theqerb (8:52:30 PM): o
theqerb (8:52:31 PM): ill invite again
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:32 PM): lol
jturner2k6 has been invited. 8:52 pm
jturner2k6 (8:53:01 PM): yay alright
theqerb (8:53:07 PM): sweet
jturner2k6 (8:53:14 PM): QERB I think I'm going to let you lead the discussion
theqerb (8:53:19 PM): =-O
jturner2k6 (8:53:21 PM): since you're probably the most experienced GnW here
theqerb (8:53:21 PM): ok
theqerb (8:53:21 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (8:53:26 PM): ^_^
jturner2k6 (8:53:27 PM): or I can lead if you want
theqerb (8:53:32 PM): nah that's fine
theqerb (8:53:36 PM): start with foxy?
thecheesiestwiz (8:53:41 PM): i'll input here and there with my strange theorycraft
jturner2k6 (8:53:46 PM): yes start with Fox, start with an overall summary
theqerb (8:53:49 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (8:53:54 PM): and then we can add in to the subcategories
theqerb (8:53:54 PM): first of all
theqerb (8:54:12 PM): fox can punish
theqerb (8:54:18 PM): nearly everything g&w does
theqerb (8:54:29 PM): except for maybe his jab
theqerb (8:54:41 PM): so i usually like to play it
theqerb (8:54:44 PM): defensively
theqerb (8:54:52 PM): i dont like approaching fox, because he can punish very easily
theqerb (8:55:06 PM): it's difficult to space f-airs against him
theqerb (8:55:11 PM): it's not really dependable
theqerb (8:55:16 PM): i like to play more of a
theqerb (8:55:26 PM): let him approach, use jabs to try to catch him while he's approaching
theqerb (8:55:35 PM): but then that's when we get into playing campy foxes.......
jturner2k6 (8:55:40 PM): yeah I was about to say
theqerb (8:55:56 PM): but against campy foxes
theqerb (8:56:06 PM): i always want to play a stage with platforms
theqerb (8:56:07 PM): EXCEPT
theqerb (8:56:10 PM): stadium
theqerb (8:56:12 PM): for obvious reasons
jturner2k6 (8:56:17 PM): right
jturner2k6 (8:56:19 PM): stadium sucks
h
thecheesiestwiz (8:56:24 PM): tell me about it x.x
theqerb (8:56:24 PM): low ceiling, hard to sweetspot
theqerb (8:56:24 PM): etc
theqerb (8:56:27 PM): hehe
thecheesiestwiz (8:56:36 PM): lasers, lasers everywhere
theqerb (8:56:39 PM): yes
theqerb (8:56:40 PM): hm
theqerb (8:56:44 PM): we have more g&w pplz on
jturner2k6 (8:56:48 PM): qerb I'm just gonna let you talk until you say you're finished
jturner2k6 (8:56:57 PM): and then I'll add in my thoughts
theqerb (8:57:01 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:01 PM): qerb, quick thing
jturner2k6 (8:57:03 PM): and then everyone else can add input
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:07 PM): add sausabe into this chat plz
jturner2k6 (8:57:09 PM): and then we'll move on to a subcategory
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:15 PM): i can't via pidgin
theqerb (8:57:17 PM): ok
theqerb (8:57:18 PM): sec
sausabe has been invited. 8:57 pm
sausabe (8:57:38 PM): hey there
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:42 PM): yay
theqerb (8:57:42 PM): yo
jturner2k6 (8:57:50 PM): sup
theqerb (8:57:53 PM): anyone else i should invite?
jturner2k6 (8:58:06 PM): :O h
theqerb (8:58:09 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (8:58:10 PM): whoever smooshhead is in xat lol?
jturner2k6 (8:58:10 PM): I just dropped internet
h
thecheesiestwiz (8:58:18 PM): aw, we have dualcats now at least?
theqerb (8:58:20 PM): lol u didnt miss anything
jturner2k6 (8:58:22 PM): k
theqerb (8:58:25 PM): ok so
theqerb (8:58:26 PM): back to fox.
theqerb (8:58:34 PM): and why playing on a stage with platforms is good
theqerb (8:58:36 PM): especially a campy one.
theqerb (8:58:49 PM): you can use the platforms to...
thecheesiestwiz (8:58:49 PM): add kirbykaze3038
theqerb (8:58:53 PM): lol o boy
theqerb (8:58:54 PM): k
kirbykaze3038 has been invited. 8:59 pm
theqerb (8:59:08 PM): so you can use them to
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:09 PM): ^_^
theqerb (8:59:15 PM): 1. escape laser pressure
theqerb (8:59:22 PM): 2. easier to approach fox from above
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:25 PM): (speaking of platform levels to escape campy fox)
theqerb (8:59:28 PM): cuz our d-air has priority
theqerb (8:59:35 PM): ya?
Kirbykaze3038 (8:59:42 PM): dair is pretty good like that
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:48 PM): yes, also uair from under likes to sheild poke if you do it right
jturner2k6 (8:59:49 PM): He was just telling kaze what we were currently discussing
theqerb (8:59:57 PM): oh ok lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:00:00 PM): i've been mostly just edgecanceling dair from above into djs or more aerials
Kirbykaze3038 (9:00:05 PM): off platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:00:14 PM): i loev you kirbykaze =o h just for that right there
theqerb (9:00:22 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:00:27 PM): continue qerb
theqerb (9:00:30 PM): ok
theqerb (9:00:39 PM): one problem is
theqerb (9:00:47 PM): the d-air isnt a sure-shot approach
theqerb (9:00:52 PM): if you d-air foxes shield
theqerb (9:00:56 PM): chances are he can shine you out or even grab
theqerb (9:01:09 PM): so you cant do it all the time
theqerb (9:01:20 PM): better to edge cancel it or use it if you predict an aerial from below
theqerb (9:01:26 PM): which foxes try to do alot
theqerb (9:01:31 PM): (b-air/u-air)
theqerb (9:01:32 PM): etc
theqerb (9:01:52 PM): but ya
theqerb (9:01:56 PM): so basically
theqerb (9:02:01 PM): platforms against campy foxes are good
theqerb (9:02:04 PM): unless it's ps....
theqerb (9:02:11 PM): which u should have banned
theqerb (9:02:15 PM): (:
jturner2k6 (9:02:20 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:02:30 PM): any thoughts?
Kirbykaze3038 (9:02:35 PM): i like fd with gaw but i'll suspect most foxes will ban it
jturner2k6 (9:02:41 PM): alright I'm gonna throw in my opinions
theqerb (9:02:52 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (9:03:23 PM): against an aggro Fox, I think GnW can counter it if he does it right
jturner2k6 (9:03:28 PM): mostly by staying to the ground
theqerb (9:03:39 PM): aggro as in
theqerb (9:03:44 PM): laser happy? or n-air crazy fox
jturner2k6 (9:03:57 PM): a fox that approaches more than he should h
theqerb (9:04:09 PM): ok.
jturner2k6 (9:04:10 PM): probably not with lasers, approaching with lasers is dumb h
theqerb (9:04:15 PM): haha yea
jturner2k6 (9:04:31 PM): but yeah, staying to the ground and utilizing dtilt and utilt leads to assloads of combos
thecheesiestwiz (9:04:38 PM): i like fullhop nair wavelanded against aggro foxes, juust gotta read their jumps =)
Kirbykaze3038 (9:04:54 PM): i'm far more conservative
jturner2k6 (9:04:58 PM): fair will also beat out most Fox aerial approaches
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:01 PM): wd back d-tilt and u-tilt
theqerb (9:05:13 PM): wd back d-tilt is def good
jturner2k6 (9:05:19 PM): yeah that's what I meant kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:05:21 PM): WDback fsmash too
jturner2k6 (9:05:23 PM): by staying to the ground h
theqerb (9:05:24 PM): u-tilt is really punishable by fox tho
theqerb (9:05:28 PM): i use it very...sparingly
theqerb (9:05:31 PM): cuz it has a lot of post-lag
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:34 PM): u-tilt is mostly vs fjs
jturner2k6 (9:05:37 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:05:40 PM): ok ya
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:44 PM): vs shffls
jturner2k6 (9:05:45 PM): utilt can't catch a shffl very well
jturner2k6 (9:05:50 PM): you want to use dtilt vs shffls
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:51 PM): i usually just depend on jump back fair
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:55 PM): or wd back d-tilt
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:05 PM): jump back fair will probably never leave me
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:08 PM): stupid sheik habits
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:09 PM): =P
theqerb (9:06:10 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:12 PM): honestly
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:13 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:15 PM): i think fox cant punish it
theqerb (9:06:17 PM): that
theqerb (9:06:18 PM): and jab
theqerb (9:06:23 PM): jump back f-air and jab
theqerb (9:06:28 PM): my 2 fave ways to deal with
theqerb (9:06:29 PM): any fox
You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited 9:06 pm
theqerb (9:06:39 PM): You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited
theqerb (9:06:40 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:44 PM): ill shut up.
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:46 PM): XD
jturner2k6 (9:06:47 PM): hah
sausabe (9:06:48 PM): hah
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:48 PM): good job
theqerb (9:06:52 PM): (:
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:58 PM): try not
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:00 PM): typing
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:01 PM): like mango
theqerb (9:07:04 PM): ugh
Kirbykaze3038 (9:07:05 PM): rapid jab is okay against him if he's trying to press when he shouldn't, i think
theqerb (9:07:06 PM): bad habit
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:19 PM): i never like to use rapid jab
jturner2k6 (9:07:22 PM): yeah rapid jab is against against shields generally
Kirbykaze3038 (9:07:23 PM): but if you can find a d-tilt it will be more useful
jturner2k6 (9:07:27 PM): I've started using it more lately
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:28 PM): anything past the first one ends up killin gme =c
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:39 PM): hm really?
jturner2k6 (9:07:45 PM): sometimes I'll just space a fair into a shield
jturner2k6 (9:07:49 PM): and then rapid jab afterwards
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:52 PM): seems like the first jab on their sheild they tend to sheildgrab
theqerb (9:07:57 PM): yea...most chars can cc any jab past the first one i feel like. jab-> grab jab d-tilt my faves
thecheesiestwiz (9:08:02 PM): or jump away before i can jab?>grab
jturner2k6 (9:08:03 PM): they can't shieldgrab it if you space the jab correctly
sausabe (9:08:04 PM): I generally don't rapid jab except out of desperation. > <
thecheesiestwiz (9:08:20 PM): when they jump out lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:21 PM): i think after watching wobbles's ics i have a bit more respect for jabs in general
jturner2k6 (9:08:33 PM): jab -> grab gets me punished if I do it into their shield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:40 PM): though i don't think they should be a go-to defensively or offensively
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:55 PM): they're situational
jturner2k6 (9:09:19 PM): alright so back on track
jturner2k6 (9:09:21 PM): against campy foxes
thecheesiestwiz (9:09:23 PM): G&W's jab has amazing priority, it cancels a lot of stuff out
thecheesiestwiz (9:09:26 PM): oh yes campy foxes
jturner2k6 (9:09:51 PM): yeah banning Pokemon Stadium is definitely the way to go
theqerb (9:09:57 PM): amen
jturner2k6 (9:10:07 PM): I can't think of any stage transformation that benefits GnW over Fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:10:22 PM): is there much more you can do to a laser campy fox than push it back to the stage and try read/intercepting their crossovers?
jturner2k6 (9:10:36 PM): it's difficult to sweetspot the ledge on that stage as well
thecheesiestwiz (9:10:44 PM): and i'm pretty sure stage tranfsformations help you out more than normal PS x.x
theqerb (9:10:56 PM): lol probably right there.
jturner2k6 (9:11:12 PM): and as qerb said the ceiling is low (which doesn't really matter, you're gonna die at ~80% regardless) but it still sucks
Kirbykaze3038 (9:11:13 PM): how does game & watch fare on a stage like rainbow cruise?
Kirbykaze3038 (9:11:25 PM): if we're autobanning pokemon stadium someone is bound to pick the boat eventually
theqerb (9:11:36 PM): i thought about that before
theqerb (9:11:44 PM): but most foxes wont pick rc
thecheesiestwiz (9:11:47 PM): qerb, add j00t back in plz?
theqerb (9:11:48 PM): so i guess i just
theqerb (9:11:50 PM): hope they dont.
theqerb (9:11:55 PM): o ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:11:55 PM): foxes love RC more than other chars =/
jturner2k6 has been invited. 9:12 pm
Invitation result for buddy jturner2k6 : jturner2k6 is not available. 9:12 pm
jturner2k6 (9:12:11 PM): ugh
theqerb (9:12:17 PM): yeah i guess they do
jturner2k6 (9:12:18 PM): my internet's dropping for some reason
theqerb (9:12:23 PM): gay =/
jturner2k6 (9:12:26 PM): anyways
thecheesiestwiz (9:12:40 PM): what would we do if RC comes up though
jturner2k6 (9:12:43 PM): I personally have never gone to Rainbow Cruise
jturner2k6 (9:12:44 PM): but
jturner2k6 (9:12:48 PM): it's probably an awful stage
theqerb (9:12:57 PM): i feel like it's a stage where
jturner2k6 (9:12:58 PM): GnW's aerial mobility isn't the best to keep up with Fox/Falco
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:01 PM): i really only play it against my ganon friend
jturner2k6 (9:13:06 PM): you're just going to get outcamped
theqerb (9:13:07 PM): you'll die at around 50-60%
theqerb (9:13:10 PM): but u can get gimps
theqerb (9:13:15 PM): semi easiliy
theqerb (9:13:17 PM): easily*
jturner2k6 (9:13:29 PM): I don't think it's worth it though
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:32 PM): i've found running around bairing a lot works somewhat well against ganon on RC
jturner2k6 (9:13:38 PM): you can get gimps on neutral stages just as easily
theqerb (9:13:48 PM): yea
theqerb (9:13:52 PM): but is it worth to ban rc over ps?
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:54 PM): oh we're not gonna pick it, the fox is though =/
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:56 PM): no
thecheesiestwiz (9:14:03 PM): unles you KNOW they wanna play there i'd say
jturner2k6 (9:14:10 PM): probably not
theqerb (9:14:12 PM): when i played eggm
theqerb (9:14:16 PM): he picked bf against me
theqerb (9:14:18 PM): when i banned ps
jturner2k6 (9:14:22 PM): lol?
theqerb (9:14:24 PM): just saying.
thecheesiestwiz (9:14:34 PM): hmm
jturner2k6 (9:14:35 PM): I think BF is one of GnW's best stages against Fox
jturner2k6 (9:14:47 PM): but of course BF is everyone's best stage against Fox to an extent
jturner2k6 (9:14:52 PM): simply due to the ledge
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:03 PM): i think fod would be a good level for fighting a campy fox
jturner2k6 (9:15:11 PM): you're correct kaze
jturner2k6 (9:15:12 PM): h
theqerb (9:15:13 PM): fod def best stage for this matchup
thecheesiestwiz (9:15:20 PM): cough brinstar
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:22 PM): no
theqerb (9:15:23 PM): haha
theqerb (9:15:25 PM): best neutral.
theqerb (9:15:26 PM): i should say
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:35 PM): i think fod is better than brinstar to be honest
jturner2k6 (9:15:35 PM): alright there is one issue I want to bring up about stages
jturner2k6 (9:15:40 PM): and that's the viability of FD
jturner2k6 (9:15:54 PM): assuming the Fox doesn't ban it
sausabe (9:16:02 PM): I like FD against fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:06 PM): FoD is great for G&W, but G&W really benefits from up b'ing through the platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:25 PM): i think it's pretty good for G&W, though i don't like the stage
theqerb (9:16:27 PM): the platform's on fod are just too good for g&w
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:33 PM): by platforms i mean bottom of stage
theqerb (9:16:46 PM): but
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:46 PM): and G&W won't get shine gayed nearly as easy on brinstar
jturner2k6 (9:16:47 PM): FD =/= FoD
jturner2k6 (9:16:49 PM): >:[
theqerb (9:16:50 PM): we talking about fd or fod
theqerb (9:16:51 PM): lol
theqerb (9:16:52 PM): yea
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:56 PM): i was answering kirbykaze's thing
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:59 PM): ignore me =)
jturner2k6 (9:17:03 PM): alright
theqerb (9:17:04 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:17:07 PM): we'll continue then h
Kirbykaze3038 (9:17:07 PM): someone brought up FD
theqerb (9:17:17 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:17:19 PM): so obviously GnW has infinite chaingrabs vs. Fox, Falco, and Falcon on FD
theqerb (9:17:27 PM): for me, fd either goes really well, or really ****ty...
jturner2k6 (9:17:28 PM): uthrow works until 55%
theqerb (9:17:37 PM): you can get tons of grabs combos, easy edgeguards
jturner2k6 (9:17:40 PM): dthrow pretty much works as long as you want it to
theqerb (9:17:46 PM): ya
jturner2k6 (9:17:57 PM): and I've learned that you can bthrow chaingrab if they DI up
theqerb (9:18:10 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:18:12 PM): which is hilarious
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:13 PM): lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:15 PM): gaw has a very interesting throw game
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:19 PM): all his throws have the same animation
theqerb (9:18:23 PM): and if you grab fox by either edge on fd, very good chance for gimp.
jturner2k6 (9:18:24 PM): exactly kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:26 PM): nah, it's different
theqerb (9:18:30 PM): nah they have slight differences
theqerb (9:18:33 PM): but ppl dont know (:
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:34 PM): you can tell the direction of the throw by the balls
jturner2k6 (9:18:36 PM): there are basically two animations
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:38 PM): but dont' tell people
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:40 PM): oh alright
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:41 PM): i won't
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:42 PM): =]
theqerb (9:18:42 PM): ROFL
sausabe (9:18:48 PM): it is a secret to everyone
jturner2k6 (9:18:53 PM): one where it moves right to left
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:54 PM): kind of makes sense
jturner2k6 (9:18:56 PM): and one where it moves left to right
jturner2k6 (9:18:59 PM): that's pretty much it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:19:05 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:19:10 PM): there's height differences for uthrow and dthrow i think
theqerb (9:19:22 PM): i think you're right
theqerb (9:19:26 PM): but anyways
theqerb (9:19:30 PM): for the matchup on fd.
theqerb (9:19:40 PM): i usually either get overwhelmed
theqerb (9:19:43 PM): with no platforms to escape to
theqerb (9:19:48 PM): or i complete ****
theqerb (9:19:52 PM): with grabs and such
theqerb (9:20:01 PM): does that sound familiar at all?
jturner2k6 (9:20:13 PM): I think FD depends entirely on your grab game TBH
jturner2k6 (9:20:27 PM): so utilizing everything GnW has to get a grab is priority
jturner2k6 (9:20:34 PM): utilt -> grab, dtilt -> grab, jab -> grab
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:35 PM): *add Jim N Watch is all*
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:42 PM): er
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:47 PM): "Jim N Watch"
jturner2k6 (9:20:48 PM): jab -> grab works pretty well if you catch the Fox out of the air
jimnwatch has been invited. 9:20 pm
theqerb (9:20:56 PM): ye
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:59 PM): dair > grab
theqerb (9:21:02 PM): jab is amazing on fd
theqerb (9:21:10 PM): i basically wd around and spam it
jturner2k6 (9:21:15 PM): hah
theqerb (9:21:15 PM): until i catch him off guard
jturner2k6 (9:21:15 PM): well
theqerb (9:21:16 PM): on fd
theqerb (9:21:34 PM): otherwise it's pretty hard to land a grab on fox
jturner2k6 (9:21:38 PM): the only time I imagine jab -> grab working if they are in the air and not doing an aerial attack
jturner2k6 (9:21:41 PM): i.e. lasers
Jim N Watch (9:21:47 PM): a great way to use jab
thecheesiestwiz (9:21:57 PM): jab has a stupid hitbox that beats fox's nair
thecheesiestwiz (9:21:59 PM): lol
theqerb (9:22:06 PM): <3 jab so much
theqerb (9:22:10 PM): rips through everything
thecheesiestwiz (9:22:20 PM): gotta remember it's completely disjointed
jturner2k6 (9:22:25 PM): yeah but most if the time it's better to use dtilt than jab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:22:26 PM): gaw is very well-equipped to deal with misspaced aerials i think
Kirbykaze3038 (9:22:41 PM): and is really good up until when he gets hit
Jim N Watch (9:22:45 PM): full jump spacing fair, right before he hits the ground it pulls back, you can waveland to your opponent and jab to grab. awesome.
thecheesiestwiz (9:22:54 PM): getting hit or having to sheild, both are bad
Jim N Watch (9:22:59 PM): used it many times
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:01 PM): pfft this is gaw
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:09 PM): having to shield is synonymous with getting hit
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:12 PM): unless you lightshield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:18 PM): which means massive frame ****
theqerb (9:23:24 PM): ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:24 PM): yea, you always lighsheild and sheild DI away
theqerb (9:23:28 PM): gw cant do jack oos
jturner2k6 (9:23:29 PM): lightshield does nothing for GnW against Fox or Falco
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:32 PM): so you have enough time to get out of stuff
jturner2k6 (9:23:33 PM): I'm pretty convinced of that
jturner2k6 (9:23:44 PM): so moving on to our next topic: viability of shield
jturner2k6 (9:23:46 PM): ...which isn't
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:48 PM): nah, if you sheild DI hits away and light sheild you get pushed too far back
theqerb (9:23:49 PM): lol
theqerb (9:23:51 PM): topic done.
jturner2k6 (9:23:53 PM): I say just keep out of your shield regardless
jturner2k6 (9:24:09 PM): even if you lightshield, you don't get a positioning advantage
Jim N Watch (9:24:12 PM): using shield sparingly
jturner2k6 (9:24:12 PM): because the shieldstun is just too great
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:16 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:24:18 PM): yup
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:19 PM): yea, it's an oh **** kind of thing
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:26 PM): lightshielding = massive frame ****
theqerb (9:24:29 PM): brb getting watermelon
Jim N Watch (9:24:30 PM): you can get hit 1 or 2 times then you can get poked
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:32 PM): lol
Jim N Watch (9:24:36 PM): but usually only after
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:40 PM): fox's dair is so gay to lightshield
jturner2k6 (9:24:49 PM): yeah but jim, even if you manage to block an attack
jturner2k6 (9:24:51 PM): it does nothing to you
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:52 PM): i can imagine O.o
jturner2k6 (9:24:53 PM): for*
jturner2k6 (9:25:03 PM): GnW's OOS options are complete ***
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:09 PM): agreed
jturner2k6 (9:25:19 PM): anything you do out of shield can be punished effortlessly
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:20 PM): up b OoS on DL64 in the middle of the stage is pretty good >.>
theqerb (9:25:25 PM): kback
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:28 PM): that's about it though
theqerb (9:25:40 PM): hm
jturner2k6 (9:25:42 PM): I'm pretty sure you get a lot of landing lag if you do it straight from the ground to the top platform
theqerb (9:25:43 PM): i dont up-b oos against fox
theqerb (9:25:49 PM): unless he's above me maybe.
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:52 PM): i think that is wise
theqerb (9:25:54 PM): i feel it's too punishable
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:56 PM): his u-smash is gay
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:56 PM): you pop up just a little above the stage so you don't get the massive lag
jturner2k6 (9:26:04 PM): Really?
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:07 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:26:08 PM): hrmm
Jim N Watch (9:26:11 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:26:11 PM): that's kinda good then
Kirbykaze3038 (9:26:18 PM): that's useful
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:23 PM): it's only worth it on DL64, and you'd BETTER ****ED HIT WITH IT
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:27 PM): or you get uaired haha
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:30 PM): it's... situational
jturner2k6 (9:26:31 PM): I'll have to remember that
Kirbykaze3038 (9:26:38 PM): tricks
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:42 PM): but if they don't know it it's a good gimmic
Jim N Watch (9:26:46 PM): most of g&w is situational
jturner2k6 (9:26:48 PM): yeah, GnW is a 2D ninja :D h
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:50 PM): they get hit, go for the uair and you can short hop a dair
theqerb (9:26:51 PM): lolol
theqerb (9:27:01 PM): there's no 'way'
theqerb (9:27:02 PM): to play gw
theqerb (9:27:05 PM): u just have to have
theqerb (9:27:07 PM): a **** ton of tricks
theqerb (9:27:09 PM): that work.
theqerb (9:27:15 PM): imo
theqerb (9:27:23 PM): every strat
Jim N Watch (9:27:27 PM): down b if your off the screen up high and it gives you enough falling lag to make a fox miss his second up air
theqerb (9:27:27 PM): has a zillion little tricks
theqerb (9:27:28 PM): that go with it
Jim N Watch (9:27:36 PM): :3
You are no longer rate limited, and you may now send messages. 9:27 pm
theqerb (9:27:50 PM): at what %s?
theqerb (9:27:52 PM): thats interesting.
thecheesiestwiz (9:27:54 PM): bucket is like foxes shine for missing attacks, cept youc an't cancel it
theqerb (9:28:01 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:28:02 PM): god ****it
Jim N Watch (9:28:02 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:28:04 PM): >:[
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:07 PM): aw
jturner2k6 (9:28:09 PM): alright so
theqerb (9:28:09 PM): useless move =/
jturner2k6 (9:28:14 PM): general concensus is:
jturner2k6 (9:28:19 PM): shield sucks
jturner2k6 (9:28:25 PM): don't use it
Jim N Watch (9:28:28 PM): mostly yea lol
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:30 PM): i've got a question about fox
theqerb (9:28:30 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:28:30 PM): amirite?
Jim N Watch (9:28:36 PM): sparingly i have to argue though
theqerb (9:28:39 PM): if you dont have to use it, dont.
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:40 PM): what the hell do we do from the ledge
Jim N Watch (9:28:47 PM): yea exactly aaron
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:49 PM): specifically on FD with no platforms to go to
Jim N Watch (9:28:57 PM): mindgame up b
jturner2k6 (9:29:03 PM): no
theqerb (9:29:03 PM): hm
theqerb (9:29:06 PM): sometimes
jturner2k6 (9:29:07 PM): that sounds awful h
Jim N Watch (9:29:08 PM): he has a massive sweet spot too
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:20 PM): no, not recovering, i mean when you're getting back to the stage
Kirbykaze3038 (9:29:24 PM): does gaw has an invincible ledgedash like falco?
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:29 PM): and they're just waiting for you ouside of strong fair range
jturner2k6 (9:29:49 PM): an invincible ledgedash?
jturner2k6 (9:29:51 PM): Clarify please
Jim N Watch (9:29:56 PM): like how
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:57 PM): like sheik's wavlanding
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:01 PM): ffrom the edge
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:05 PM): double jump waveland onstage from the edge
jturner2k6 (9:30:10 PM): okay
jturner2k6 (9:30:12 PM): uhmm no
jturner2k6 (9:30:13 PM): h
theqerb (9:30:15 PM): i dont think so
theqerb (9:30:15 PM): lol
Jim N Watch (9:30:18 PM): no i dont think so haha
theqerb (9:30:18 PM): def not
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:29 PM): just a bit too slow, the first part is invincible
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:32 PM): he has to have some invincibility, i mean, even ganon has some and ganon's double jump is tiny
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:33 PM): but you get hit the last part of it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:34 PM): ok
theqerb (9:30:38 PM): sometimes i like to do the cf tactic
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:40 PM): what if you shortened it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:44 PM): i mean
theqerb (9:30:45 PM): edgehop waveland back and jump again
jturner2k6 (9:30:45 PM): yeah I was about to say
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:48 PM): rather than trying to go deep
jturner2k6 (9:30:49 PM): waveland -> dair
theqerb (9:30:51 PM): ya
Jim N Watch (9:30:54 PM): up air from ledge, down air from lege, forward air from ledge, waveland to jab or chair from ledge is wat i do
theqerb (9:30:54 PM): try to bait fox
theqerb (9:30:56 PM): to come and shine
theqerb (9:30:58 PM): or usmash
theqerb (9:31:02 PM): then f-air his FACE
theqerb (9:31:04 PM): -D
jturner2k6 (9:31:07 PM): it's really hard to though qerb
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:07 PM): i like qerb's idea
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:12 PM): i'm trying to process everyone elses
jturner2k6 (9:31:21 PM): you can djump -> fair from the ledge and regrab
jturner2k6 (9:31:26 PM): like that ****tard Sheik can do
theqerb (9:31:30 PM): yea u can
theqerb (9:31:32 PM): i love it
theqerb (9:31:39 PM): but we're assuming, fox stays out of f-air range right?
jturner2k6 (9:31:44 PM): but a smart Fox isn't going to **** with you on the ledge
jturner2k6 (9:31:45 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:46 PM): if you wanna be a beast you can master ledgehop attack edge cancels
jturner2k6 (9:32:07 PM): waveland -> dair is definitely a viable option, but one you can only use sparingly
thecheesiestwiz (9:32:12 PM): i couldn't do anythign vs eggz last night when i was on the edge and he stayed just out of fair range
jturner2k6 (9:32:16 PM): if you do it every time obviously it's going to be punished
theqerb (9:32:21 PM): oh ya
theqerb (9:32:25 PM): you cant do it all the time
theqerb (9:32:38 PM): dammit j00t and cactuarz have the same color sn's
theqerb (9:32:41 PM): i cant tell the difference
jturner2k6 (9:32:53 PM): I think the dair will come out fast enough to beat all of Fox's aerials if the Fox isn't prepared for it
thecheesiestwiz (9:32:56 PM): lol i don't know what to do about it?
theqerb (9:33:03 PM): heh
theqerb (9:33:10 PM): but ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:10 PM): eggz just waited for somethign and ran in with an usmash =;/
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:14 PM): i think if you did a stationary waveland onto the stage you could probably get that far if fox is staying out of your strong fair range
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:20 PM): i've seen marths do it
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:26 PM): hmm
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:27 PM): because they also lack an invincible ledgedash
jturner2k6 (9:33:28 PM): yeah thanks for bringing that up kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:32 PM): i'll keep that in mind
jturner2k6 (9:33:34 PM): just a double jump -> waveland into the ground
jturner2k6 (9:33:38 PM): is viable too
theqerb (9:33:50 PM): yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:54 PM): samuses do something like that too kind of
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:58 PM): but they just double jump
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:03 PM): because they have weird floaty powers
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:05 PM): and are weird
jturner2k6 (9:34:09 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:34:16 PM): hmm
jturner2k6 (9:34:16 PM): other than that you can try waveland -> jab
theqerb (9:34:28 PM): i usually dont have a problem recovering against foxes, once i'm on the edge.
jturner2k6 (9:34:30 PM): or waveland -> dtilt
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:37 PM): i think simply standing up is also really underrated
jturner2k6 (9:34:38 PM): both are fast moves
thecheesiestwiz (9:34:38 PM): hmm, can G&W drop to a point where they can do a no contact jump?
thecheesiestwiz (9:34:42 PM): or is that just platforms
theqerb (9:34:45 PM): yes
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:00 PM): ah, we should do that more often O.o
theqerb (9:35:24 PM): i edge camp alot
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:25 PM): i think that'd work out stupidly well
theqerb (9:35:26 PM): with no good reason
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:42 PM): eggz > edge camping x.x or i just couldn't do it
jturner2k6 (9:35:50 PM): there are more options on the edge than you might think with GnW
jturner2k6 (9:35:52 PM): just gotta be creative
theqerb (9:36:14 PM): when i played against eggm
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:16 PM): i'm definately gonna practice no contact landings and WD backward ledgehops
theqerb (9:36:17 PM): he just sat back
theqerb (9:36:18 PM): alll the way back
theqerb (9:36:20 PM): and lasered
theqerb (9:36:26 PM): he didnt edgeguard me at all
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:30 PM): i've got a fox that does that haha
theqerb (9:36:38 PM): lol
theqerb (9:36:40 PM): they scurred
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:44 PM): XD
theqerb (9:37:00 PM): dam
theqerb (9:37:02 PM): we sidetracked
theqerb (9:37:02 PM): so much
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:06 PM): yea
theqerb (9:37:08 PM): i dont even remember what we were talking about
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:10 PM): i wanna learn about campy fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:11 PM): =c
jturner2k6 (9:37:20 PM): gahhhhh
jturner2k6 (9:37:22 PM): **** my internet
sausabe (9:37:24 PM): :<
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:28 PM): later
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:30 PM): busy chatting
jturner2k6 (9:37:38 PM): ?
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:41 PM): nothing
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:46 PM): back to campy foxes?
theqerb (9:38:00 PM): yes
theqerb (9:38:05 PM): alot of the time
theqerb (9:38:15 PM): foxes get so indulged in spamming their lasers while retreating
theqerb (9:38:19 PM): that you can catch them off guard
theqerb (9:38:23 PM): and get a grab
theqerb (9:38:26 PM): if you're quick enough to react
theqerb (9:38:31 PM): does anyone know what im talking about
jturner2k6 (9:38:34 PM): yes
thecheesiestwiz (9:38:39 PM): i could see it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:38:39 PM): yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (9:38:49 PM): you sort of creep up on them
theqerb (9:38:58 PM): creeper status
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:01 PM): and then are like "surprise!"
jturner2k6 (9:39:05 PM): my main objective against a campy fox is
theqerb (9:39:14 PM): GRAB
jturner2k6 (9:39:15 PM): stay within range to punish with a jab or dtilt
jturner2k6 (9:39:17 PM): if they jump
jturner2k6 (9:39:24 PM): and then that leads to a grab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:28 PM): it is useful to make a fox complacent
theqerb (9:39:29 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:39:30 PM): hmm
theqerb (9:39:32 PM): something to lead to a grab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:35 PM): if they're willing to let that happen
theqerb (9:39:46 PM): also
theqerb (9:39:51 PM): you really have to capitalize
theqerb (9:39:55 PM): when you get a chance
theqerb (9:39:59 PM): it's like falcon/sheik matchup
jturner2k6 (9:40:05 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:40:08 PM): if falcon doesnt do some crazy tech chasing 0-deaths
theqerb (9:40:10 PM): he's not gonna win
theqerb (9:40:13 PM): against a good shark.
jturner2k6 (9:40:15 PM): eh
jturner2k6 (9:40:19 PM): I'm not gonna take it that far
theqerb (9:40:22 PM): ya
jturner2k6 (9:40:25 PM): for me it's more about
theqerb (9:40:26 PM): that was an exaguration
jturner2k6 (9:40:27 PM): getting the Fox in the air
theqerb (9:40:30 PM): (spelling)
jturner2k6 (9:40:44 PM): because a Fox above you isn't the best position for Fox to be in
theqerb (9:40:55 PM): a fox above you is great
jturner2k6 (9:41:01 PM): right
jturner2k6 (9:41:16 PM): alright so we've covered
jturner2k6 (9:41:17 PM): stages
jturner2k6 (9:41:28 PM): approach and defensive options
thecheesiestwiz (9:41:32 PM): i like yoshi's vs fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:41:42 PM): what do you guys think before we skip past
jturner2k6 (9:41:48 PM): alright yoshi's story
jturner2k6 (9:42:05 PM): it's kinda a mixed bag
jturner2k6 (9:42:15 PM): you're going to die super early to Fox
theqerb (9:42:17 PM): i love it
theqerb (9:42:25 PM): but yes
theqerb (9:42:28 PM): sadly this is true
theqerb (9:42:39 PM): the bottom platforms are positioned amazingly
jturner2k6 (9:42:43 PM): and the small sides on Yoshi's don't really benefit GnW, as GnW is more about edgeguarding than straight out killing
theqerb (9:42:48 PM): you can n-air through it with a short hop
thecheesiestwiz (9:42:49 PM): up b trips kill easier
theqerb (9:42:54 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:05 PM): i find it's easier to gimp on yoshi's
theqerb (9:43:12 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:14 PM): since they fall down too quick
jturner2k6 (9:43:20 PM): I don't
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:20 PM): and they die in a range they'd be able to recover
jturner2k6 (9:43:28 PM): that stupid cloud messes me up a lot
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:30 PM): weak fairs/up b through their charge up b
Kirbykaze3038 (9:43:33 PM): i find that it's easier to reach them when they're recovering high for some reason
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:35 PM): lol randall <3
Kirbykaze3038 (9:43:38 PM): on yoshi's story
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:58 PM): i like them low on that stage
jturner2k6 (9:44:03 PM): yeah a ledgehop nair covers most of the platform
theqerb (9:44:04 PM): yea
theqerb (9:44:08 PM): well if they're below the edge
theqerb (9:44:10 PM): that's a dead fox
theqerb (9:44:13 PM): if they're above
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:18 PM): haha, super situational shy guy tricks are awesome there
theqerb (9:44:21 PM): they can either sweetspot edge with up b, or land on that platform
theqerb (9:44:27 PM): which can throw you off potentially
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:30 PM): if you can usmash a shy guy it leads to hits a lot
theqerb (9:44:33 PM): lol
theqerb (9:44:35 PM): hit xfer
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:38 PM): no lie
theqerb (9:45:02 PM): i'm a fan of jumping out to edgeguard
theqerb (9:45:03 PM): on ys
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:07 PM): lol yes
Kirbykaze3038 (9:45:16 PM): jumping out to edgeguard is awesome
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:17 PM): though foxes like to sweetspot from above
jturner2k6 (9:45:23 PM): you can do that on any stage though
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:24 PM): then shine you comin back with invincible ledge hops =c
theqerb (9:45:27 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:45:30 PM): just saying that stage in particular
theqerb (9:45:33 PM): on a stage like bf
theqerb (9:45:39 PM): you dont know if they're gonn go for the edge or the platform
theqerb (9:45:44 PM): so it's a lil more risky to jump out
jturner2k6 (9:45:49 PM): I personally think that Yoshi's is a stage you want to strike
theqerb (9:45:58 PM): hmmmm
theqerb (9:46:16 PM): lets talk about that
jturner2k6 (9:46:17 PM): it's a little bit harder to sweetspot on that stage
theqerb (9:46:19 PM): what stages to strike
jturner2k6 (9:46:27 PM): well obviously pokemon stadium
theqerb (9:46:30 PM): i can sweetspot it (::
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:33 PM): DL64 for sure
theqerb (9:46:36 PM): well stadium isnt neutral anymore
jturner2k6 (9:46:40 PM): right
theqerb (9:46:41 PM): so u dont have to strike it
jturner2k6 (9:46:42 PM): lol
theqerb (9:46:45 PM): heh
jturner2k6 (9:46:46 PM): uhmm let's see
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:46 PM): and that stage you can only sweetspot if you don't ride the wall right?
theqerb (9:46:47 PM): which is amazing.
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:50 PM): *YS
theqerb (9:46:55 PM): yea i believe so
thecheesiestwiz (9:47:11 PM): which makes it hard for some people to sweet spot x.x
theqerb (9:47:33 PM): ionno
theqerb (9:47:35 PM): i never have problems
theqerb (9:47:37 PM): recovering on ys.
theqerb (9:47:40 PM): against fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:47:49 PM): same
theqerb (9:47:52 PM): im not gonna say never
theqerb (9:47:56 PM): because there's the occaisonal
theqerb (9:47:58 PM): get shine etc
theqerb (9:48:00 PM): but i mean
theqerb (9:48:04 PM): sweetspotting wise
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:06 PM): i get shined WAY less on there
theqerb (9:48:09 PM): ya
theqerb (9:48:11 PM): and if u do get shined
You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited 9:48 pm
theqerb (9:48:14 PM): u can tech off the side
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:29 PM): lol, and if you dont' you're dead no matter what stage it is
theqerb (9:48:37 PM): lol o ya
theqerb (9:48:48 PM): but so
theqerb (9:48:50 PM): what stages
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:53 PM): DL64
theqerb (9:48:56 PM): would u guys strike against fox
theqerb (9:49:03 PM): assuming ps is not neutral
sausabe (9:49:15 PM): I used to be afraid of YS because of the difficulty of sweet-spotting and the closeness of the blastzones but I'm starting to like it against spacies.
sausabe (9:49:24 PM): *being late like an ********
theqerb (9:49:28 PM): hehe
theqerb (9:49:29 PM): np
thecheesiestwiz (9:49:38 PM): other than DL64 i just choose FD cause i like to edge cancel >.> which is a bad reason
theqerb (9:49:58 PM): rofl
theqerb (9:50:12 PM): i usually strike fd and battlefield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:18 PM): i'd consider battlefield or yoshi's depending on the fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:50:32 PM): invite j00t again plox
theqerb (9:50:34 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:50:41 PM): yea i can see battlefeild for sure
jturner2k6 has been invited. 9:50 pm
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:45 PM): if they're the kind that likes to really mess around with platforms and do lots and lots of camping on them
jturner2k6 (9:50:52 PM): alright god ****it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:53 PM): i dislike the idea of needing to double jump to reach them
jturner2k6 (9:50:54 PM): >:[
jturner2k6 (9:50:57 PM): What'd I miss
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:58 PM): so battlefield
theqerb (9:51:01 PM): we're talking about
theqerb (9:51:06 PM): stages to strike
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:07 PM): why double jump, SH nair
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:09 PM): or uair
theqerb (9:51:09 PM): and bf right now
Kirbykaze3038 (9:51:18 PM): on the top platform?
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:19 PM): unless you mean top
Kirbykaze3038 (9:51:20 PM): ._.
jturner2k6 (9:51:21 PM): What's the concensus so far?
theqerb (9:51:28 PM): we seem to all have
jturner2k6 (9:51:30 PM): I think BF is one of our best stages
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:37 PM): jump waveland off side platform jump uair edge cancel
theqerb (9:51:42 PM): i dont like playing bf =/
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:45 PM): off top platform
jturner2k6 (9:51:46 PM): wat
theqerb (9:51:50 PM): i get shined
theqerb (9:51:53 PM): and die
theqerb (9:51:58 PM): especially off the platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:52:07 PM): i get shined off DL64 *anger*
theqerb (9:52:07 PM): when u get shined off a platform, it rapeees you
jturner2k6 (9:52:18 PM): hrmm
theqerb (9:52:18 PM): but i do like the platforms on bf
theqerb (9:52:24 PM): other than that
theqerb (9:52:30 PM): makes it hard for fox to approach
theqerb (9:52:33 PM): harder*
jturner2k6 (9:52:44 PM): yeah also
jturner2k6 (9:52:57 PM): there's nothing to tech on
jturner2k6 (9:53:00 PM): if you get shined into the stage
theqerb (9:53:03 PM): oh ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:08 PM): lol true that
jturner2k6 (9:53:09 PM): so I can see where you're coming from
theqerb (9:53:15 PM): yeah that stage
theqerb (9:53:18 PM): is the stage i gimped the most on
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:18 PM): no wall to ride
theqerb (9:53:19 PM): by fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:27 PM): really 2 dimensional recovery options
theqerb (9:53:42 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (9:53:49 PM): So what stage should we strike first?
theqerb (9:53:53 PM): and it' easy for fox to
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:53 PM): DL64
theqerb (9:53:57 PM): shine you while u recover
jturner2k6 (9:53:58 PM): I say DL64 by far
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:11 PM): then i'd say strike mute city
theqerb (9:54:16 PM): mute isnt neutral
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:16 PM): er battlefeild
jturner2k6 (9:54:17 PM): what?
theqerb (9:54:23 PM): o ok
jturner2k6 (9:54:23 PM): mute city is banned out the *******
theqerb (9:54:24 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:54:24 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:32 PM): i play in a weird region
jturner2k6 (9:54:32 PM): hrmm
theqerb (9:54:32 PM): out of the *******.
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:36 PM): let's leaveg it at that
sausabe (9:54:39 PM): I miss that stage @___@
theqerb (9:54:51 PM): i ban fd now instead of dream land
theqerb (9:54:53 PM): because
theqerb (9:54:57 PM): ppl usually ban dream land for me
theqerb (9:55:00 PM): i've learned.
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:00 PM): lol
theqerb (9:55:04 PM): ppl like to ban dl and fod
theqerb (9:55:05 PM): against gw
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:12 PM): everyone bans brinstar against me >.>
theqerb (9:55:13 PM): they wanna play u on small stages
theqerb (9:55:16 PM): i mean
theqerb (9:55:17 PM): strike*
theqerb (9:55:18 PM): not ban
theqerb (9:55:20 PM): my fault
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:22 PM): ok
theqerb (9:55:45 PM): ppl think hmm dream land, high ceiling, big stage, gw will live longer
theqerb (9:55:47 PM): STRIKE
jturner2k6 (9:56:08 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:56:13 PM): my main goal is to play fox on either fod (preferably) or yoshi's game 1
theqerb (9:56:15 PM): of a set
thecheesiestwiz (9:56:15 PM): so against fox you want to play, and in this order FoD, YS, FD/BF, DL64
sausabe (9:56:22 PM): That's interesting. I'm going to start considering that now.
jturner2k6 (9:56:23 PM): the two stages i would strike are
theqerb (9:56:33 PM): thats def my preference cactuarz
theqerb (9:56:33 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:56:40 PM): Yoshis and DL64
jturner2k6 (9:56:50 PM): I'm just more comfortable on BF than on yoshis
jturner2k6 (9:57:00 PM): but that's just personal taste h
theqerb (9:57:03 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:57:05 PM): i was just going to say
thecheesiestwiz (9:57:14 PM): i'd say just strike one of the 2 most hated levels that you think your opponent wants to play on
sausabe (9:57:14 PM): I'd prefer ys to bf, personally.
thecheesiestwiz (9:57:23 PM): and hope they ban one of the ones you want to if you strike first
sausabe (9:57:29 PM): Even if it's just to avoid the aggravation of BF ledges
jturner2k6 (9:57:51 PM): I dunno why we're talking about striking DL64
theqerb (9:57:56 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (9:57:59 PM): it isn't a neutral most of the time is it?
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:05 PM): it's always a nuetral
theqerb (9:58:07 PM): i think we meant
theqerb (9:58:09 PM): striking it
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:10 PM): even japan plays on it O.o
theqerb (9:58:12 PM): mixing words up
jturner2k6 (9:58:19 PM): Really?
theqerb (9:58:23 PM): i think so
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:26 PM): that's the one with the wind
theqerb (9:58:27 PM): why would u ban dl against fox
theqerb (9:58:28 PM): when you have
theqerb (9:58:32 PM): ps and rainbow cruise
theqerb (9:58:33 PM): to ban
theqerb (9:58:33 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:58:35 PM): oh wait
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:37 PM): oh ban not strike
jturner2k6 (9:58:39 PM): not dream land
jturner2k6 (9:58:44 PM): fuuuck I'm so confused
theqerb (9:58:46 PM): haha
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:47 PM): thinking kongo jungle?
sausabe (9:58:48 PM): lol > <
jturner2k6 (9:58:49 PM): I meant kongo jungle 64
theqerb (9:58:52 PM): oh oh oh
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:53 PM): cause i LOVE that stage vs fox
jturner2k6 (9:58:56 PM): alright
jturner2k6 (9:58:58 PM): Kongo Jungle 64
jturner2k6 (9:59:01 PM): is complete ***
theqerb (9:59:05 PM): i dont like it either
jturner2k6 (9:59:06 PM): so strike it if it is neutral
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:06 PM): watttt
theqerb (9:59:13 PM): fox has too many recovery options
Jim N Watch (9:59:21 PM): i actually like it
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:21 PM): G&W has too many recovery options
theqerb (9:59:23 PM): harder to edgeguard
jturner2k6 (9:59:25 PM): it's the same deal as Rainbow Cruise
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:29 PM): G&W is harder to edge guard
theqerb (9:59:31 PM): does he?
Jim N Watch (9:59:31 PM): recovering from under is fun
jturner2k6 (9:59:31 PM): you can get outcamped
theqerb (9:59:33 PM): like what
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:38 PM): you have under the platform
theqerb (9:59:41 PM): recoering from under is mad fun.
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:43 PM): and the barrel
theqerb (9:59:45 PM): not gonna lie
Jim N Watch (9:59:47 PM): oh nya
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:49 PM): and bucket stalling to get to the barrel
Jim N Watch (9:59:50 PM): lol
theqerb (9:59:54 PM): lolol
Jim N Watch (9:59:59 PM): oh i havent thought of that thank you
Jim N Watch (10:00:02 PM): :-D
theqerb (10:00:06 PM): well he barrel is kinda punishable
theqerb (10:00:09 PM): lots of lag out of it
sausabe (10:00:14 PM): Kongo is pretty legit against spacies imo
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:15 PM): not usually
theqerb (10:00:16 PM): not really a recovery "option"
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:21 PM): G&W flies so far out of that barrel
jturner2k6 (10:00:22 PM): I don't think so
theqerb (10:00:24 PM): i like it kongo against FALCO
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:25 PM): so high in the sky
theqerb (10:00:26 PM): not fox tho
theqerb (10:00:32 PM): i like kongo*
Jim N Watch (10:00:32 PM): why falco??
jturner2k6 (10:00:33 PM): GnW's aerial mobility is terrible
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:35 PM): i like it against fox not falco O.o
theqerb (10:00:39 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:00:42 PM): and you're gonna get outcamped
theqerb (10:00:43 PM): because
theqerb (10:00:48 PM): it's so easy to avoid lasers on kongo
jturner2k6 (10:00:49 PM): by a Fox on KJ64
theqerb (10:00:56 PM): ground is unlevel
Jim N Watch (10:00:57 PM): hahaha your right i can see that
theqerb (10:01:01 PM): u-tilt is amazing
theqerb (10:01:03 PM): against him
theqerb (10:01:06 PM): but we're talking about fox
theqerb (10:01:07 PM): heh
thecheesiestwiz (10:01:10 PM): j00t, up b from just above ground onto top platform edge cancel if you wanna get up quickly
jturner2k6 (10:01:13 PM): yeah we'll talk about Falco next week
theqerb (10:01:19 PM): hell yea
jturner2k6 (10:01:22 PM): the Fox is already gone by that time
theqerb (10:01:23 PM): my fave matchup to play
Jim N Watch (10:01:29 PM): he has chain grab v fox and falco to 50-60% btw dont know if anyone mentioned
jturner2k6 (10:01:39 PM): we've covered that alright
thecheesiestwiz (10:01:42 PM): i can only do it till 35 x.x
theqerb (10:01:43 PM): my problem with kongo jungle is
jturner2k6 (10:01:51 PM): GnW actually has an "infinite" dthrow chaingrab on Fox/Falco/Falcon
Kirbykaze3038 (10:01:53 PM): i find d-throw d-smash is sometimes good for setting up combos
Jim N Watch (10:01:53 PM): i doit to 50 usualy
Jim N Watch (10:02:01 PM): i dont know about infinite...
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:06 PM): lol
theqerb (10:02:07 PM): when i think fox is gonna recover to the edge and goes for the top platform instead, i cant get get to the platform in time to still edgeguard him, cuz the top platform is so high up.
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:11 PM): dthrow dsmash looks cool as hell
jturner2k6 (10:02:16 PM): dthrow chaingrab is infinite until they DI off the stage
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:30 PM): qerb, up b to get to them up high and edge cancel the land
Jim N Watch (10:02:33 PM): downthrow downsmash with who??
theqerb (10:02:37 PM): hm
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:38 PM): game & watch
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:40 PM): vs space animals
Jim N Watch (10:02:50 PM): actually its up throw chaingrab
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:51 PM): if they di the throw away at certain percents
theqerb (10:02:52 PM): not really your ideal edgeguard tho cactuarz =/
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:54 PM): usually the lip going up ehn come down with a bair
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:59 PM): it's better than nothing?
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:00 PM): lol
theqerb (10:03:03 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:04 PM): gaw can cg with d-throw too
theqerb (10:03:05 PM): BUT
jturner2k6 (10:03:08 PM): jim
theqerb (10:03:09 PM): that's why i dont like that stage!
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:09 PM): but this is easier
theqerb (10:03:11 PM): cuz that happens.
jturner2k6 (10:03:12 PM): GnW has a dthrow chaingrab
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:14 PM): because it takes some of the reaction out
jturner2k6 (10:03:15 PM): on fox/falco/falcon
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:17 PM): if you think they're going to go high it's pretty easy to double jump nair
Jim N Watch (10:03:22 PM): yea?
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:23 PM): it's a guessing game, 50 50
theqerb (10:03:27 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:03:31 PM): and it's semi-infinite
theqerb (10:03:32 PM): i dont like d-throwing fox
theqerb (10:03:35 PM): i'd rather do
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:36 PM): if you see them di in you grab
theqerb (10:03:41 PM): anything else
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:41 PM): if you see them di away you flick down
theqerb (10:03:41 PM): i guess
jturner2k6 (10:03:43 PM): well obviously uthrow if you can
theqerb (10:03:45 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:03:49 PM): but dthrow works too
theqerb (10:03:50 PM): if i'm ever near either edge
theqerb (10:03:53 PM): i always throw them in that direction
theqerb (10:03:55 PM): b or f throw
theqerb (10:03:57 PM): cuz you can either
theqerb (10:04:01 PM): f-air them if they di it TO you
jturner2k6 (10:04:04 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:04:07 PM): well nair
theqerb (10:04:07 PM): or they have to recover with up b or over b
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:07 PM): does anyone here look at the opponent's controllers when you grab them and follow DI that way?
jturner2k6 (10:04:08 PM): but w/e
jturner2k6 (10:04:08 PM): h
theqerb (10:04:10 PM): if they di away
theqerb (10:04:11 PM): yea or nair
theqerb (10:04:17 PM): too good
jturner2k6 (10:04:23 PM): what I do is
theqerb (10:04:24 PM): haha
theqerb (10:04:26 PM): i never do that
jturner2k6 (10:04:27 PM): dthrow until I get them to ledge
jturner2k6 (10:04:29 PM): and then throw them off
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:34 PM): near edge f/bthrowing works well like always
Jim N Watch (10:04:34 PM): O.O is that cheating haha
jturner2k6 (10:04:37 PM): any direction they DI is amazing for GnW
theqerb (10:04:42 PM): dam j00t
theqerb (10:04:44 PM): that sounds
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:47 PM): nah, it's just risky haha
theqerb (10:04:48 PM): unbeatable
theqerb (10:04:49 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:05:00 PM): what?
jturner2k6 (10:05:02 PM): dthrow chaingrab?
theqerb (10:05:05 PM): d-throw to the edge
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:05 PM): if they di to the edge depending on percent you can just combo d-throw f-smash
theqerb (10:05:09 PM): b/f-throw off
theqerb (10:05:10 PM): gimp
theqerb (10:05:11 PM): gg
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:13 PM): no, looking at opponetns controller in chaingrabs to read DI
theqerb (10:05:22 PM): true
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:23 PM): dthrow fsmash is too good
jturner2k6 (10:05:29 PM): yeah dthrow fsmash is legit
theqerb (10:05:30 PM): f-smash is such a good move
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:39 PM): WD back fsmash ala samus
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:43 PM): fsmash is one of the biggest reasons i like this character
theqerb (10:05:49 PM): fsmash
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:51 PM): he lights them on fire
theqerb (10:05:52 PM): against puff
theqerb (10:05:53 PM): <333
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:56 PM): XD
theqerb (10:05:57 PM): all day
sausabe (10:06:00 PM): Yes <3
theqerb (10:06:06 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:06:07 PM): alright I need to wrap this up
thecheesiestwiz (10:06:08 PM): yesterday at the tourney i went to i found a lot of use with my chair
jturner2k6 (10:06:16 PM): Anything else we need to talk about for Fox?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:22 PM): when they're lasering
jturner2k6 (10:06:25 PM): I'm gonna be thinking up ways to organize our chat sessions better
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:26 PM): has anyone tried to do a marth
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:28 PM): and like
jturner2k6 (10:06:29 PM): because I felt today was a little bit too hectic
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:31 PM): run in f-smash?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:35 PM): or wd f-smash?
theqerb (10:06:41 PM): wd behind ythem
jturner2k6 (10:06:41 PM): well
sausabe (10:06:44 PM): I wd f-smash
theqerb (10:06:44 PM): fsmash
theqerb (10:06:46 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (10:06:52 PM): if GnW's fsmash was a big as Marth's
jturner2k6 (10:06:54 PM): then I would try it
sausabe (10:06:57 PM): usually out of shield
jturner2k6 (10:06:57 PM): h
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:02 PM): i should try wavedash forward fsmash
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:07 PM): i think that'd **** with spacing a lot
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:10 PM): with a lot of chars
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:15 PM): i like run past fsmash too
theqerb (10:07:19 PM): against most floaties
theqerb (10:07:21 PM): it's so good
theqerb (10:07:23 PM): marf peach puff
theqerb (10:07:26 PM): ones i know of
Kirbykaze3038 (10:07:32 PM): also has anyone tried to fj back dair vs fox shffls?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:07:41 PM): because sometiems i'm too close to wd back
jturner2k6 (10:07:45 PM): that's more effective vs. Falco
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:46 PM): i haven't, sounds like it'd be rough
theqerb (10:07:48 PM): agree
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:51 PM): like to pull off
theqerb (10:07:54 PM): better against falco
theqerb (10:08:02 PM): also i think
theqerb (10:08:07 PM): fox can shine you out of it
theqerb (10:08:09 PM): if he sees it
jturner2k6 (10:08:10 PM): but I still like "air planking" with fair vs. Fox sometimes
jturner2k6 (10:08:17 PM): not fair
theqerb (10:08:17 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:08:17 PM): dair
jturner2k6 (10:08:18 PM): sorry
jturner2k6 (10:08:18 PM): :x h
theqerb (10:08:21 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:08:28 PM): but yeah dair in general is better vs. Falco
theqerb (10:08:33 PM): def
theqerb (10:08:38 PM): fox can punish it
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:39 PM): dair is great for combos on fox
theqerb (10:08:39 PM): much easier
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:45 PM): not so much starting
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:47 PM): but in the middle
theqerb (10:08:47 PM): especially if you get the second hit
theqerb (10:08:48 PM): of the d-air
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:56 PM): 2'nd hit just pisses people off =p
theqerb (10:09:06 PM): also for edgeguarding fox
jturner2k6 (10:09:07 PM): alright guys anything else?
theqerb (10:09:11 PM): if you predict a forward-b
jturner2k6 (10:09:11 PM): Qerb have you been taking notes? h
theqerb (10:09:13 PM): to the edge
theqerb (10:09:15 PM): haha yes.
theqerb (10:09:22 PM): just use the chair
jturner2k6 (10:09:22 PM): alright continue qerb
thecheesiestwiz (10:09:26 PM): if a fox is under a platform edge edge canceld dairs **** their shield pretty well
theqerb (10:09:31 PM): once u hit them with that
theqerb (10:09:33 PM): they drop below the edge
thecheesiestwiz (10:09:40 PM): yes, chair was doing so good
theqerb (10:09:43 PM): you run off the stage jump f-air
jturner2k6 (10:09:48 PM): yeah if you hit with chair or dtilt on their recovery
theqerb (10:09:48 PM): everytime it kills
jturner2k6 (10:09:49 PM): they are ****ed
theqerb (10:09:51 PM): yes
jturner2k6 (10:09:52 PM): they should die
jturner2k6 (10:09:55 PM): if they don't then you're terrible
theqerb (10:09:55 PM): i go for it
jturner2k6 (10:09:56 PM): h
theqerb (10:09:57 PM): alot
Kirbykaze3038 (10:09:57 PM): soft fair is so ****
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:01 PM): for gimping
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:04 PM): yes
theqerb (10:10:05 PM): oh a
theqerb (10:10:07 PM): it's instant kill
theqerb (10:10:10 PM): ya*
jturner2k6 (10:10:11 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:10:14 PM): soft fair -> strong fair
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:15 PM): so is up b'ing from below the fox when they reocver low
jturner2k6 (10:10:15 PM): all dai
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:28 PM): i bet you could do a m2k style gimp
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:33 PM): with soft fair up+b
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:36 PM): you can, it works well
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:36 PM): or some garbage
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:38 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:10:43 PM): heh
jturner2k6 (10:10:44 PM): okay I want to say something else about edgeguarding
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:44 PM): you can soft fair to keyspike too
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:46 PM): if you're dairing
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:47 PM): take that tech-savvy foxes
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:57 PM): oh god
theqerb (10:10:58 PM): soft f-air to hard f-air
jturner2k6 (10:10:58 PM): if a Fox is below the stage and is firefoxing straight up
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:00 PM): why am i making bad puns
theqerb (10:11:00 PM): in the same jump
sausabe (10:11:03 PM): lol
theqerb (10:11:03 PM): if they di towards you
jturner2k6 (10:11:09 PM): what I like to do is run off -> bair
theqerb (10:11:14 PM): haha me too
theqerb (10:11:17 PM): but they can tech it
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:19 PM): i don't like run off bair
theqerb (10:11:20 PM): usually
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:21 PM): i hate gaw's bair
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:24 PM): soemtimes
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:25 PM): SDI + tech
theqerb (10:11:25 PM): yeah i dont think it's good
theqerb (10:11:27 PM): but i love doing it
jturner2k6 (10:11:29 PM): GnW's bair is so good
theqerb (10:11:29 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:11:34 PM): I almost like it more than fair tbh
theqerb (10:11:39 PM): i think his b-air is only good on stage if you edge cancel it
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:40 PM): i wish it could l-cancel
theqerb (10:11:40 PM): otherwise it's bad
theqerb (10:11:41 PM): imo
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:43 PM): G&W's bair is so ****, edge cancels everywhere
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:49 PM): that's why you edge cancel it h
theqerb (10:11:52 PM): heh
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:03 PM): you can edgecancel his other aerials
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:04 PM): well
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:06 PM): his fair
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:08 PM): and dair iirc
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:09 PM): all of them
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:14 PM): *l-cancel
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:16 PM): i fail
theqerb (10:12:21 PM): lol
theqerb (10:12:22 PM): i gotcha
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:23 PM): edge cancel nair is great for combos
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:30 PM): but hard to pull off sadly
theqerb (10:12:41 PM): yeah it is hard to pull off
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:43 PM): that's why we all like fod
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:48 PM): it makes edgecancels ezmode
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:50 PM): it's easy to edge cancel, just hard to set up
theqerb (10:12:53 PM): yess
jturner2k6 (10:12:54 PM): run off bair is good if your opponent can't SDI
jturner2k6 (10:12:58 PM): I'll just leave it at that
jturner2k6 (10:12:59 PM): h
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:59 PM): G&W makes edge cancels easy mode >.>
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:08 PM): try haha
theqerb (10:13:09 PM): lol yeah
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:09 PM): true
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:11 PM): fod's platforms make them super duper ezmode
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:20 PM): lol
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:21 PM): and they're sometimes just really nicely arranged for us and everything
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:22 PM): =D
theqerb (10:13:25 PM): we didnt talk about
theqerb (10:13:28 PM): gw u-air
theqerb (10:13:29 PM): against fox
theqerb (10:13:30 PM): D=
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:35 PM): fox is on a platform above you
theqerb (10:13:40 PM): do it.
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:41 PM): uair sheild poke every time
jturner2k6 (10:13:44 PM): pretty self explanatory IMO
theqerb (10:13:47 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:49 PM): i hate his uair
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:53 PM): also DI your own uair so you edge cancel
theqerb (10:13:54 PM): =/
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:57 PM): but i must learn it
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:00 PM): they get sucked into both hits
jturner2k6 (10:14:01 PM): kaze isn't a GnW main obviously
jturner2k6 (10:14:04 PM): h
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:04 PM): you get free hit after
theqerb (10:14:06 PM): hahah
jturner2k6 (10:14:07 PM): KICK HIM
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:08 PM): i'm a sheik man
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:09 PM): =/
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:15 PM): SHEIK SCUM
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:16 PM): er
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:19 PM): i guess you're ok
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:20 PM): lol mm?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:21 PM): <3
theqerb (10:14:26 PM): kaze tell us how to play sheik vs gw
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:26 PM): totally <3
jturner2k6 (10:14:27 PM): uair = vuvuzela
theqerb (10:14:27 PM): next time
theqerb (10:14:28 PM): =/
jturner2k6 (10:14:30 PM): so it's obviously good
theqerb (10:14:32 PM): roflrofl
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:39 PM): what
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:42 PM): how to play vs sheik?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:45 PM): or backwards?
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:49 PM): i like sheik vs G&W as long as they aren't needle camping grabs
theqerb (10:14:53 PM): vs sheik
theqerb (10:14:54 PM): as gw
jturner2k6 (10:14:57 PM): alright
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:58 PM): bait ccs
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:04 PM): then **** her for it
jturner2k6 (10:15:04 PM): can we save sheik vs gnw for some other time?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:07 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (10:15:08 PM): like after Falco week?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:10 PM): k
theqerb (10:15:12 PM): kkkk
theqerb (10:15:14 PM): sry
theqerb (10:15:14 PM): lol
theqerb (10:15:16 PM): (:
jturner2k6 (10:15:17 PM): np
jturner2k6 (10:15:17 PM): h
jturner2k6 (10:15:19 PM): alright
jturner2k6 (10:15:20 PM): so
jturner2k6 (10:15:28 PM): ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WITH FOX
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:33 PM): not really
thecheesiestwiz (10:15:34 PM): mmk, quick not vs sheik, dtilt their CC from about 30-65% and you can jab reset them afterwards, i'm dont withs heik now
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:52 PM): cg her all the way to 43
jturner2k6 (10:15:54 PM): I think everything has been covered with Fox
theqerb (10:16:02 PM): i like to tech chase 9
theqerb (10:16:04 PM): against fox
theqerb (10:16:08 PM): when i throw him onto a platform
theqerb (10:16:09 PM): =D
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:09 PM): off platforums
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:11 PM): yea
theqerb (10:16:15 PM): they get so mad
jturner2k6 (10:16:17 PM): that's so... bad
jturner2k6 (10:16:19 PM): >_>;
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:23 PM): um, how do you guys feel about brinstar and KJ and FoD
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:29 PM): what's the best CP in your eyes
theqerb (10:16:30 PM): it's bad
theqerb (10:16:32 PM): ON PAPER
theqerb (10:16:34 PM): but when i use it
jturner2k6 (10:16:34 PM): lol
theqerb (10:16:36 PM): it's greatness
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:37 PM): i like fod
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:39 PM): the most
theqerb (10:16:39 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:16:39 PM): <3 qerb
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:42 PM): but i hate cps
theqerb (10:16:46 PM): haha <3
jturner2k6 (10:16:50 PM): I'd say FoD is your best choice for a counterpick
theqerb (10:16:56 PM): i like brinstar moar
jturner2k6 (10:16:58 PM): if they ban FD
jturner2k6 (10:17:00 PM): if they ban FoD
jturner2k6 (10:17:01 PM): then go FD
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:01 PM): i'd probably do fd
theqerb (10:17:02 PM): but not vs mango's fox >_>
jturner2k6 (10:17:04 PM): because FD is ****
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:11 PM): fod or fd
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:14 PM): brinstar next
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:14 PM): eggz is hella good at brinstar i learned =/
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:23 PM): kj64 is just like
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:25 PM): too big
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:29 PM): i don't like how big it is
theqerb (10:17:34 PM): thats what she said
theqerb (10:17:39 PM): i dont like it either
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:39 PM): KJ64 i've had success since a lot of foxes don'w know how to play that stage
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:40 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:17:40 PM): yeah you get outcamped on KJ64
jturner2k6 (10:17:45 PM): it's the same thing as rainbow cruise
jturner2k6 (10:17:56 PM): If I get counterpicked to KJ64 I'll just go Falcon
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:58 PM): i feel a lot of people get uncomfortable on KJ64
jturner2k6 (10:17:59 PM): :/ h
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:01 PM): the ****** is only like 5-6 inches long or something
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:07 PM): so yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:12 PM): i could see a woman saying that
jturner2k6 (10:18:14 PM): alright so let's end this with a summary
jturner2k6 (10:18:19 PM): and by a summary I mean a matchup ratio
jturner2k6 (10:18:20 PM): Qerb?
theqerb (10:18:25 PM): um
theqerb (10:18:30 PM): fox vs gw ratio?
jturner2k6 (10:18:32 PM): yes
theqerb (10:18:38 PM): im feeling alot of pressure
theqerb (10:18:39 PM): right now
jturner2k6 (10:18:43 PM): lol
sausabe (10:18:46 PM): heh
theqerb (10:18:47 PM): based on the fact that
thecheesiestwiz (10:18:54 PM): it's liake a 65 35 matchup, obviously in GY&W's favor
theqerb (10:18:54 PM): fox has such a big stage advantage
theqerb (10:19:02 PM): he def has a decently sized advantage
jturner2k6 (10:19:05 PM): I'll go ahead and say 70/30 for Fox
Kirbykaze3038 (10:19:05 PM): 67-33 imo
theqerb (10:19:08 PM): on a stage gw wants
theqerb (10:19:10 PM): like fod
theqerb (10:19:13 PM): it'll be more or less
theqerb (10:19:18 PM): but in general ya
theqerb (10:19:24 PM): i was gonna say
theqerb (10:19:26 PM): 70-30
jturner2k6 (10:19:29 PM): kaze I base it on 10 matchups
theqerb (10:19:29 PM): but 67-33
theqerb (10:19:30 PM): sounds better
jturner2k6 (10:19:32 PM): not 100 like everyone else does
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:34 PM): stage wise, i think best of 3 stage wise is fine
theqerb (10:19:42 PM): once fox cp's you
theqerb (10:19:43 PM): it's like
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:45 PM): best of 5 it helps fox more
theqerb (10:19:46 PM): 90-10
theqerb (10:19:56 PM): but when u cp him you get a lil advantage potentially
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:57 PM): i think it's only 65 35 myself
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:07 PM): and your first stage isn't bad for you
theqerb (10:20:13 PM): it isnt that bad for you
theqerb (10:20:14 PM): i agree
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:14 PM): first stage you don't have to playa **** stage ever
jturner2k6 (10:20:20 PM): yeah first stage shouldn't be too bad
jturner2k6 (10:20:22 PM): but you have to win
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:28 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (10:20:29 PM): the first match
jturner2k6 (10:20:32 PM): otherwise the set's over
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:35 PM): you do have to win first match
theqerb (10:20:39 PM): assuming teh fox is legit
jturner2k6 (10:20:43 PM): right
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:45 PM): but that's usually the case anyways isn't it?
theqerb (10:20:49 PM): indeed
theqerb (10:21:02 PM): i guess i'll
theqerb (10:21:04 PM): update
theqerb (10:21:07 PM): the matchup discussion
theqerb (10:21:08 PM): O:
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:11 PM): even with gay characters that's been the case with fox
jturner2k6 (10:21:17 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:21:19 PM): word
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:21 PM): though the new ruleset it's better
jturner2k6 (10:21:27 PM): winning the first match is universally important
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:27 PM): like
jturner2k6 (10:21:31 PM): but it's even moreso with GnW h
theqerb (10:21:35 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:39 PM): he doesn't have floats, cruise, green greens, and corneria anymore
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:47 PM): just cruise and pokestad
thecheesiestwiz (10:21:49 PM): i think we should have 2 threads for this info, one as a log of our convos so people can read them, the other put the important info into the matchup discussion
theqerb (10:21:52 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (10:21:55 PM): i liked green greens vs fox
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:05 PM): ...
theqerb (10:22:09 PM): i liked corneria vs ice climbers........
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:12 PM): i like green greens in general
theqerb (10:22:12 PM): rofl
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:23 PM): corneria vs ics is significantly less weird
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:24 PM): it's nto GOOD but it wasn't unbeatable
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:34 PM): i disliked green greens in general
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:40 PM): really random
theqerb (10:22:40 PM): i think it's fun
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:42 PM): just CC all your hits and DI towards teh blocks and punish with fair
theqerb (10:22:42 PM): but not
theqerb (10:22:43 PM): good
theqerb (10:22:44 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:22:50 PM): Am I the only one that thinks Sheik vs. ICs is in Sheik's favor?
jturner2k6 (10:22:56 PM): I must be a scrub
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:56 PM): yes
jturner2k6 (10:22:57 PM): h
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:00 PM): it's possible
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:02 PM): oh wait
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:03 PM): i think it's even
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:06 PM): sheik vs IC's
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:08 PM): or about even
theqerb (10:23:09 PM): says the sheik main haha
jturner2k6 (10:23:11 PM): or atleast it isn't in IC's favor like everyone claims
theqerb (10:23:12 PM): (;
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:14 PM): i thought you said vs G&W haha
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:26 PM): i don't have a particularly solid opinion on that one
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:36 PM): i mostly just copy what fly amanita tells me about sheik vs ics
jturner2k6 (10:23:41 PM): lol
theqerb (10:23:42 PM): good idea
theqerb (10:23:43 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:23:46 PM): anyways I think I'm done for the night
theqerb (10:23:50 PM): alrighty
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:50 PM): i've played ics once in tournament
jturner2k6 (10:23:52 PM): thanks for participating guys
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:53 PM): mmk j00t
theqerb (10:23:54 PM): i wanna play now
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:54 PM): and i wound up going peach
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:57 PM): toodles
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:57 PM): also thanks for your vids vs pika
jturner2k6 (10:24:00 PM): We'll do it next week at the same time?
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:01 PM): they helped me yesterday
theqerb (10:24:02 PM): thanks for running this **** j00t
jturner2k6 (10:24:08 PM): np
jturner2k6 (10:24:10 PM): lol np cactuarz
jturner2k6 (10:24:20 PM): So next Sunday at 8 p.m.
jturner2k6 (10:24:21 PM): be here
jturner2k6 (10:24:24 PM): we're gonna be ****ing up Falco
jturner2k6 (10:24:27 PM): h
theqerb (10:24:28 PM): yessss
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:29 PM): i won't be here =/
theqerb (10:24:29 PM): my fave
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:31 PM): i have work johns
theqerb (10:24:31 PM): D=
jturner2k6 (10:24:33 PM): wattttt
jturner2k6 (10:24:36 PM): >:[
theqerb (10:24:38 PM): we should reschedule
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:44 PM): actually the next 3 weeks i work sunday
jturner2k6 (10:24:49 PM): Saturday then?
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:53 PM): and saturday
theqerb (10:24:56 PM): fine with me
jturner2k6 (10:24:57 PM): ugh
sausabe (10:24:58 PM): :<
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:02 PM): i have only wed/thurs/fri off =/
jturner2k6 (10:25:05 PM): we'll miss you?
jturner2k6 (10:25:05 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:11 PM): save the whole chat for me?
theqerb (10:25:12 PM): we can save the log
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:12 PM): haha
theqerb (10:25:13 PM): for ya
theqerb (10:25:14 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:25:23 PM): im gonna save this one
theqerb (10:25:26 PM): when we're done
jturner2k6 (10:25:26 PM): alright
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:30 PM): mmk ^_^
jturner2k6 (10:25:31 PM): so 70/30 for Fox overall
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:39 PM): i tihnk 65 35 but i won't argue with that
theqerb (10:25:43 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:25:45 PM): around there.
theqerb (10:25:47 PM): we can say.
jturner2k6 (10:25:50 PM): 65/35 doesn't make sense to me
jturner2k6 (10:25:57 PM): you can't win 6 and a half matchups
jturner2k6 (10:26:03 PM): and basing it on a 100 match system is flawed
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:12 PM): you can win 13 out of 20
theqerb (10:26:21 PM): he makes a point
jturner2k6 (10:26:31 PM): >:[
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:34 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:26:35 PM): I say 70/30 but w/e
theqerb (10:26:36 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:26:38 PM): it's up to Qerb
theqerb (10:26:46 PM): O:
jturner2k6 (10:26:48 PM): So what'd you think about the Pika GnW thing Cactuarz?
theqerb (10:26:50 PM): im gonna go with 70/30
theqerb (10:26:53 PM): anything less than that
jturner2k6 (10:26:53 PM): good **** qerb
jturner2k6 (10:26:54 PM): h
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:55 PM): 6931 then?
theqerb (10:26:58 PM): we'd get flamed by other boards
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:59 PM): i hate the matchup
sausabe (10:27:00 PM): 70/30 sounds right
theqerb (10:27:03 PM): saying blah blah gw sucks
theqerb (10:27:04 PM): etc.
theqerb (10:27:05 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:06 PM): cause we hae 3 pika mains in this state
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:10 PM): and it's just boring
theqerb (10:27:13 PM): lol
theqerb (10:27:19 PM): i need to record soon
theqerb (10:27:22 PM): i missed apex
theqerb (10:27:27 PM): and it was 30 mins from my house
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:29 PM): i'm going to genesis 2 btw
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:31 PM): and shame
theqerb (10:27:31 PM): >_>
jturner2k6 (10:27:37 PM): I'm starting to think that Pika GnW is in GnW's favor
jturner2k6 (10:27:46 PM): but we have a ways to go until we get to that discussion
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:47 PM): i never lose vs pika
theqerb (10:27:50 PM): i think gw ***** alot of low tiers
theqerb (10:27:55 PM): but yea
theqerb (10:27:59 PM): for next next next time
jturner2k6 (10:28:02 PM): h
theqerb (10:28:03 PM): next next next next....
theqerb (10:28:03 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:09 PM): in fact, after the first month of my playing G&W i never lost against a pika
theqerb (10:28:09 PM): iite i g2g as well
theqerb (10:28:13 PM): gotta get ready
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:14 PM): mmk peace
theqerb (10:28:16 PM): first day of class tmrw
jturner2k6 (10:28:17 PM): aight guys
theqerb (10:28:18 PM): ):
jturner2k6 (10:28:21 PM): thanks for being here
theqerb (10:28:25 PM): indeed
jturner2k6 (10:28:26 PM): see you guys later
theqerb (10:28:32 PM): cya guys
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:33 PM): ftilt beat's pika's recovery h
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:37 PM): see ya
sausabe (10:29:07 PM): bye :[ h
You are no longer rate limited, and you may now send messages. 10:29 pm
Week 1: fox
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:16 PM): add him =o h
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:22 PM): it didn't work
theqerb (8:52:22 PM): i did!
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:27 PM): or he cancled on accidenet
theqerb (8:52:30 PM): o
theqerb (8:52:31 PM): ill invite again
thecheesiestwiz (8:52:32 PM): lol
jturner2k6 has been invited. 8:52 pm
jturner2k6 (8:53:01 PM): yay alright
theqerb (8:53:07 PM): sweet
jturner2k6 (8:53:14 PM): QERB I think I'm going to let you lead the discussion
theqerb (8:53:19 PM): =-O
jturner2k6 (8:53:21 PM): since you're probably the most experienced GnW here
theqerb (8:53:21 PM): ok
theqerb (8:53:21 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (8:53:26 PM): ^_^
jturner2k6 (8:53:27 PM): or I can lead if you want
theqerb (8:53:32 PM): nah that's fine
theqerb (8:53:36 PM): start with foxy?
thecheesiestwiz (8:53:41 PM): i'll input here and there with my strange theorycraft
jturner2k6 (8:53:46 PM): yes start with Fox, start with an overall summary
theqerb (8:53:49 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (8:53:54 PM): and then we can add in to the subcategories
theqerb (8:53:54 PM): first of all
theqerb (8:54:12 PM): fox can punish
theqerb (8:54:18 PM): nearly everything g&w does
theqerb (8:54:29 PM): except for maybe his jab
theqerb (8:54:41 PM): so i usually like to play it
theqerb (8:54:44 PM): defensively
theqerb (8:54:52 PM): i dont like approaching fox, because he can punish very easily
theqerb (8:55:06 PM): it's difficult to space f-airs against him
theqerb (8:55:11 PM): it's not really dependable
theqerb (8:55:16 PM): i like to play more of a
theqerb (8:55:26 PM): let him approach, use jabs to try to catch him while he's approaching
theqerb (8:55:35 PM): but then that's when we get into playing campy foxes.......
jturner2k6 (8:55:40 PM): yeah I was about to say
theqerb (8:55:56 PM): but against campy foxes
theqerb (8:56:06 PM): i always want to play a stage with platforms
theqerb (8:56:07 PM): EXCEPT
theqerb (8:56:10 PM): stadium
theqerb (8:56:12 PM): for obvious reasons
jturner2k6 (8:56:17 PM): right
jturner2k6 (8:56:19 PM): stadium sucks
hthecheesiestwiz (8:56:24 PM): tell me about it x.x
theqerb (8:56:24 PM): low ceiling, hard to sweetspot
theqerb (8:56:24 PM): etc
theqerb (8:56:27 PM): hehe
thecheesiestwiz (8:56:36 PM): lasers, lasers everywhere
theqerb (8:56:39 PM): yes
theqerb (8:56:40 PM): hm
theqerb (8:56:44 PM): we have more g&w pplz on
jturner2k6 (8:56:48 PM): qerb I'm just gonna let you talk until you say you're finished
jturner2k6 (8:56:57 PM): and then I'll add in my thoughts
theqerb (8:57:01 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:01 PM): qerb, quick thing
jturner2k6 (8:57:03 PM): and then everyone else can add input
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:07 PM): add sausabe into this chat plz
jturner2k6 (8:57:09 PM): and then we'll move on to a subcategory
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:15 PM): i can't via pidgin
theqerb (8:57:17 PM): ok
theqerb (8:57:18 PM): sec
sausabe has been invited. 8:57 pm
sausabe (8:57:38 PM): hey there
thecheesiestwiz (8:57:42 PM): yay
theqerb (8:57:42 PM): yo
jturner2k6 (8:57:50 PM): sup
theqerb (8:57:53 PM): anyone else i should invite?
jturner2k6 (8:58:06 PM): :O h
theqerb (8:58:09 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (8:58:10 PM): whoever smooshhead is in xat lol?
jturner2k6 (8:58:10 PM): I just dropped internet
hthecheesiestwiz (8:58:18 PM): aw, we have dualcats now at least?
theqerb (8:58:20 PM): lol u didnt miss anything
jturner2k6 (8:58:22 PM): k
theqerb (8:58:25 PM): ok so
theqerb (8:58:26 PM): back to fox.
theqerb (8:58:34 PM): and why playing on a stage with platforms is good
theqerb (8:58:36 PM): especially a campy one.
theqerb (8:58:49 PM): you can use the platforms to...
thecheesiestwiz (8:58:49 PM): add kirbykaze3038
theqerb (8:58:53 PM): lol o boy
theqerb (8:58:54 PM): k
kirbykaze3038 has been invited. 8:59 pm
theqerb (8:59:08 PM): so you can use them to
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:09 PM): ^_^
theqerb (8:59:15 PM): 1. escape laser pressure
theqerb (8:59:22 PM): 2. easier to approach fox from above
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:25 PM): (speaking of platform levels to escape campy fox)
theqerb (8:59:28 PM): cuz our d-air has priority
theqerb (8:59:35 PM): ya?
Kirbykaze3038 (8:59:42 PM): dair is pretty good like that
thecheesiestwiz (8:59:48 PM): yes, also uair from under likes to sheild poke if you do it right
jturner2k6 (8:59:49 PM): He was just telling kaze what we were currently discussing
theqerb (8:59:57 PM): oh ok lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:00:00 PM): i've been mostly just edgecanceling dair from above into djs or more aerials
Kirbykaze3038 (9:00:05 PM): off platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:00:14 PM): i loev you kirbykaze =o h just for that right there
theqerb (9:00:22 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:00:27 PM): continue qerb
theqerb (9:00:30 PM): ok
theqerb (9:00:39 PM): one problem is
theqerb (9:00:47 PM): the d-air isnt a sure-shot approach
theqerb (9:00:52 PM): if you d-air foxes shield
theqerb (9:00:56 PM): chances are he can shine you out or even grab
theqerb (9:01:09 PM): so you cant do it all the time
theqerb (9:01:20 PM): better to edge cancel it or use it if you predict an aerial from below
theqerb (9:01:26 PM): which foxes try to do alot
theqerb (9:01:31 PM): (b-air/u-air)
theqerb (9:01:32 PM): etc
theqerb (9:01:52 PM): but ya
theqerb (9:01:56 PM): so basically
theqerb (9:02:01 PM): platforms against campy foxes are good
theqerb (9:02:04 PM): unless it's ps....
theqerb (9:02:11 PM): which u should have banned
theqerb (9:02:15 PM): (:
jturner2k6 (9:02:20 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:02:30 PM): any thoughts?
Kirbykaze3038 (9:02:35 PM): i like fd with gaw but i'll suspect most foxes will ban it
jturner2k6 (9:02:41 PM): alright I'm gonna throw in my opinions
theqerb (9:02:52 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (9:03:23 PM): against an aggro Fox, I think GnW can counter it if he does it right
jturner2k6 (9:03:28 PM): mostly by staying to the ground
theqerb (9:03:39 PM): aggro as in
theqerb (9:03:44 PM): laser happy? or n-air crazy fox
jturner2k6 (9:03:57 PM): a fox that approaches more than he should
htheqerb (9:04:09 PM): ok.
jturner2k6 (9:04:10 PM): probably not with lasers, approaching with lasers is dumb
htheqerb (9:04:15 PM): haha yea
jturner2k6 (9:04:31 PM): but yeah, staying to the ground and utilizing dtilt and utilt leads to assloads of combos
thecheesiestwiz (9:04:38 PM): i like fullhop nair wavelanded against aggro foxes, juust gotta read their jumps =)
Kirbykaze3038 (9:04:54 PM): i'm far more conservative
jturner2k6 (9:04:58 PM): fair will also beat out most Fox aerial approaches
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:01 PM): wd back d-tilt and u-tilt
theqerb (9:05:13 PM): wd back d-tilt is def good
jturner2k6 (9:05:19 PM): yeah that's what I meant kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:05:21 PM): WDback fsmash too
jturner2k6 (9:05:23 PM): by staying to the ground
htheqerb (9:05:24 PM): u-tilt is really punishable by fox tho
theqerb (9:05:28 PM): i use it very...sparingly
theqerb (9:05:31 PM): cuz it has a lot of post-lag
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:34 PM): u-tilt is mostly vs fjs
jturner2k6 (9:05:37 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:05:40 PM): ok ya
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:44 PM): vs shffls
jturner2k6 (9:05:45 PM): utilt can't catch a shffl very well
jturner2k6 (9:05:50 PM): you want to use dtilt vs shffls
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:51 PM): i usually just depend on jump back fair
Kirbykaze3038 (9:05:55 PM): or wd back d-tilt
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:05 PM): jump back fair will probably never leave me
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:08 PM): stupid sheik habits
Kirbykaze3038 (9:06:09 PM): =P
theqerb (9:06:10 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:12 PM): honestly
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:13 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:15 PM): i think fox cant punish it
theqerb (9:06:17 PM): that
theqerb (9:06:18 PM): and jab
theqerb (9:06:23 PM): jump back f-air and jab
theqerb (9:06:28 PM): my 2 fave ways to deal with
theqerb (9:06:29 PM): any fox
You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited 9:06 pm
theqerb (9:06:39 PM): You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited
theqerb (9:06:40 PM): lol
theqerb (9:06:44 PM): ill shut up.
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:46 PM): XD
jturner2k6 (9:06:47 PM): hah
sausabe (9:06:48 PM): hah
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:48 PM): good job
theqerb (9:06:52 PM): (:
thecheesiestwiz (9:06:58 PM): try not
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:00 PM): typing
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:01 PM): like mango
theqerb (9:07:04 PM): ugh
Kirbykaze3038 (9:07:05 PM): rapid jab is okay against him if he's trying to press when he shouldn't, i think
theqerb (9:07:06 PM): bad habit
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:19 PM): i never like to use rapid jab
jturner2k6 (9:07:22 PM): yeah rapid jab is against against shields generally
Kirbykaze3038 (9:07:23 PM): but if you can find a d-tilt it will be more useful
jturner2k6 (9:07:27 PM): I've started using it more lately
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:28 PM): anything past the first one ends up killin gme =c
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:39 PM): hm really?
jturner2k6 (9:07:45 PM): sometimes I'll just space a fair into a shield
jturner2k6 (9:07:49 PM): and then rapid jab afterwards
thecheesiestwiz (9:07:52 PM): seems like the first jab on their sheild they tend to sheildgrab
theqerb (9:07:57 PM): yea...most chars can cc any jab past the first one i feel like. jab-> grab jab d-tilt my faves
thecheesiestwiz (9:08:02 PM): or jump away before i can jab?>grab
jturner2k6 (9:08:03 PM): they can't shieldgrab it if you space the jab correctly
sausabe (9:08:04 PM): I generally don't rapid jab except out of desperation. > <
thecheesiestwiz (9:08:20 PM): when they jump out lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:21 PM): i think after watching wobbles's ics i have a bit more respect for jabs in general
jturner2k6 (9:08:33 PM): jab -> grab gets me punished if I do it into their shield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:40 PM): though i don't think they should be a go-to defensively or offensively
Kirbykaze3038 (9:08:55 PM): they're situational
jturner2k6 (9:09:19 PM): alright so back on track
jturner2k6 (9:09:21 PM): against campy foxes
thecheesiestwiz (9:09:23 PM): G&W's jab has amazing priority, it cancels a lot of stuff out
thecheesiestwiz (9:09:26 PM): oh yes campy foxes
jturner2k6 (9:09:51 PM): yeah banning Pokemon Stadium is definitely the way to go
theqerb (9:09:57 PM): amen
jturner2k6 (9:10:07 PM): I can't think of any stage transformation that benefits GnW over Fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:10:22 PM): is there much more you can do to a laser campy fox than push it back to the stage and try read/intercepting their crossovers?
jturner2k6 (9:10:36 PM): it's difficult to sweetspot the ledge on that stage as well
thecheesiestwiz (9:10:44 PM): and i'm pretty sure stage tranfsformations help you out more than normal PS x.x
theqerb (9:10:56 PM): lol probably right there.
jturner2k6 (9:11:12 PM): and as qerb said the ceiling is low (which doesn't really matter, you're gonna die at ~80% regardless) but it still sucks
Kirbykaze3038 (9:11:13 PM): how does game & watch fare on a stage like rainbow cruise?
Kirbykaze3038 (9:11:25 PM): if we're autobanning pokemon stadium someone is bound to pick the boat eventually
theqerb (9:11:36 PM): i thought about that before
theqerb (9:11:44 PM): but most foxes wont pick rc
thecheesiestwiz (9:11:47 PM): qerb, add j00t back in plz?
theqerb (9:11:48 PM): so i guess i just
theqerb (9:11:50 PM): hope they dont.
theqerb (9:11:55 PM): o ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:11:55 PM): foxes love RC more than other chars =/
jturner2k6 has been invited. 9:12 pm
Invitation result for buddy jturner2k6 : jturner2k6 is not available. 9:12 pm
jturner2k6 (9:12:11 PM): ugh
theqerb (9:12:17 PM): yeah i guess they do
jturner2k6 (9:12:18 PM): my internet's dropping for some reason
theqerb (9:12:23 PM): gay =/
jturner2k6 (9:12:26 PM): anyways
thecheesiestwiz (9:12:40 PM): what would we do if RC comes up though
jturner2k6 (9:12:43 PM): I personally have never gone to Rainbow Cruise
jturner2k6 (9:12:44 PM): but
jturner2k6 (9:12:48 PM): it's probably an awful stage
theqerb (9:12:57 PM): i feel like it's a stage where
jturner2k6 (9:12:58 PM): GnW's aerial mobility isn't the best to keep up with Fox/Falco
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:01 PM): i really only play it against my ganon friend
jturner2k6 (9:13:06 PM): you're just going to get outcamped
theqerb (9:13:07 PM): you'll die at around 50-60%
theqerb (9:13:10 PM): but u can get gimps
theqerb (9:13:15 PM): semi easiliy
theqerb (9:13:17 PM): easily*
jturner2k6 (9:13:29 PM): I don't think it's worth it though
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:32 PM): i've found running around bairing a lot works somewhat well against ganon on RC
jturner2k6 (9:13:38 PM): you can get gimps on neutral stages just as easily
theqerb (9:13:48 PM): yea
theqerb (9:13:52 PM): but is it worth to ban rc over ps?
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:54 PM): oh we're not gonna pick it, the fox is though =/
thecheesiestwiz (9:13:56 PM): no
thecheesiestwiz (9:14:03 PM): unles you KNOW they wanna play there i'd say
jturner2k6 (9:14:10 PM): probably not
theqerb (9:14:12 PM): when i played eggm
theqerb (9:14:16 PM): he picked bf against me
theqerb (9:14:18 PM): when i banned ps
jturner2k6 (9:14:22 PM): lol?
theqerb (9:14:24 PM): just saying.
thecheesiestwiz (9:14:34 PM): hmm
jturner2k6 (9:14:35 PM): I think BF is one of GnW's best stages against Fox
jturner2k6 (9:14:47 PM): but of course BF is everyone's best stage against Fox to an extent
jturner2k6 (9:14:52 PM): simply due to the ledge
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:03 PM): i think fod would be a good level for fighting a campy fox
jturner2k6 (9:15:11 PM): you're correct kaze
jturner2k6 (9:15:12 PM):
htheqerb (9:15:13 PM): fod def best stage for this matchup
thecheesiestwiz (9:15:20 PM): cough brinstar
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:22 PM): no
theqerb (9:15:23 PM): haha
theqerb (9:15:25 PM): best neutral.
theqerb (9:15:26 PM): i should say
Kirbykaze3038 (9:15:35 PM): i think fod is better than brinstar to be honest
jturner2k6 (9:15:35 PM): alright there is one issue I want to bring up about stages
jturner2k6 (9:15:40 PM): and that's the viability of FD
jturner2k6 (9:15:54 PM): assuming the Fox doesn't ban it
sausabe (9:16:02 PM): I like FD against fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:06 PM): FoD is great for G&W, but G&W really benefits from up b'ing through the platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:25 PM): i think it's pretty good for G&W, though i don't like the stage
theqerb (9:16:27 PM): the platform's on fod are just too good for g&w
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:33 PM): by platforms i mean bottom of stage
theqerb (9:16:46 PM): but
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:46 PM): and G&W won't get shine gayed nearly as easy on brinstar
jturner2k6 (9:16:47 PM): FD =/= FoD
jturner2k6 (9:16:49 PM): >:[
theqerb (9:16:50 PM): we talking about fd or fod
theqerb (9:16:51 PM): lol
theqerb (9:16:52 PM): yea
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:56 PM): i was answering kirbykaze's thing
thecheesiestwiz (9:16:59 PM): ignore me =)
jturner2k6 (9:17:03 PM): alright
theqerb (9:17:04 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:17:07 PM): we'll continue then
hKirbykaze3038 (9:17:07 PM): someone brought up FD
theqerb (9:17:17 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:17:19 PM): so obviously GnW has infinite chaingrabs vs. Fox, Falco, and Falcon on FD
theqerb (9:17:27 PM): for me, fd either goes really well, or really ****ty...
jturner2k6 (9:17:28 PM): uthrow works until 55%
theqerb (9:17:37 PM): you can get tons of grabs combos, easy edgeguards
jturner2k6 (9:17:40 PM): dthrow pretty much works as long as you want it to
theqerb (9:17:46 PM): ya
jturner2k6 (9:17:57 PM): and I've learned that you can bthrow chaingrab if they DI up
theqerb (9:18:10 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:18:12 PM): which is hilarious
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:13 PM): lol
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:15 PM): gaw has a very interesting throw game
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:19 PM): all his throws have the same animation
theqerb (9:18:23 PM): and if you grab fox by either edge on fd, very good chance for gimp.
jturner2k6 (9:18:24 PM): exactly kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:26 PM): nah, it's different
theqerb (9:18:30 PM): nah they have slight differences
theqerb (9:18:33 PM): but ppl dont know (:
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:34 PM): you can tell the direction of the throw by the balls
jturner2k6 (9:18:36 PM): there are basically two animations
thecheesiestwiz (9:18:38 PM): but dont' tell people
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:40 PM): oh alright
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:41 PM): i won't
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:42 PM): =]
theqerb (9:18:42 PM): ROFL
sausabe (9:18:48 PM): it is a secret to everyone
jturner2k6 (9:18:53 PM): one where it moves right to left
Kirbykaze3038 (9:18:54 PM): kind of makes sense
jturner2k6 (9:18:56 PM): and one where it moves left to right
jturner2k6 (9:18:59 PM): that's pretty much it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:19:05 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:19:10 PM): there's height differences for uthrow and dthrow i think
theqerb (9:19:22 PM): i think you're right
theqerb (9:19:26 PM): but anyways
theqerb (9:19:30 PM): for the matchup on fd.
theqerb (9:19:40 PM): i usually either get overwhelmed
theqerb (9:19:43 PM): with no platforms to escape to
theqerb (9:19:48 PM): or i complete ****
theqerb (9:19:52 PM): with grabs and such
theqerb (9:20:01 PM): does that sound familiar at all?
jturner2k6 (9:20:13 PM): I think FD depends entirely on your grab game TBH
jturner2k6 (9:20:27 PM): so utilizing everything GnW has to get a grab is priority
jturner2k6 (9:20:34 PM): utilt -> grab, dtilt -> grab, jab -> grab
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:35 PM): *add Jim N Watch is all*
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:42 PM): er
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:47 PM): "Jim N Watch"
jturner2k6 (9:20:48 PM): jab -> grab works pretty well if you catch the Fox out of the air
jimnwatch has been invited. 9:20 pm
theqerb (9:20:56 PM): ye
thecheesiestwiz (9:20:59 PM): dair > grab
theqerb (9:21:02 PM): jab is amazing on fd
theqerb (9:21:10 PM): i basically wd around and spam it
jturner2k6 (9:21:15 PM): hah
theqerb (9:21:15 PM): until i catch him off guard
jturner2k6 (9:21:15 PM): well
theqerb (9:21:16 PM): on fd
theqerb (9:21:34 PM): otherwise it's pretty hard to land a grab on fox
jturner2k6 (9:21:38 PM): the only time I imagine jab -> grab working if they are in the air and not doing an aerial attack
jturner2k6 (9:21:41 PM): i.e. lasers
Jim N Watch (9:21:47 PM): a great way to use jab
thecheesiestwiz (9:21:57 PM): jab has a stupid hitbox that beats fox's nair
thecheesiestwiz (9:21:59 PM): lol
theqerb (9:22:06 PM): <3 jab so much
theqerb (9:22:10 PM): rips through everything
thecheesiestwiz (9:22:20 PM): gotta remember it's completely disjointed
jturner2k6 (9:22:25 PM): yeah but most if the time it's better to use dtilt than jab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:22:26 PM): gaw is very well-equipped to deal with misspaced aerials i think
Kirbykaze3038 (9:22:41 PM): and is really good up until when he gets hit
Jim N Watch (9:22:45 PM): full jump spacing fair, right before he hits the ground it pulls back, you can waveland to your opponent and jab to grab. awesome.
thecheesiestwiz (9:22:54 PM): getting hit or having to sheild, both are bad
Jim N Watch (9:22:59 PM): used it many times
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:01 PM): pfft this is gaw
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:09 PM): having to shield is synonymous with getting hit
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:12 PM): unless you lightshield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:23:18 PM): which means massive frame ****
theqerb (9:23:24 PM): ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:24 PM): yea, you always lighsheild and sheild DI away
theqerb (9:23:28 PM): gw cant do jack oos
jturner2k6 (9:23:29 PM): lightshield does nothing for GnW against Fox or Falco
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:32 PM): so you have enough time to get out of stuff
jturner2k6 (9:23:33 PM): I'm pretty convinced of that
jturner2k6 (9:23:44 PM): so moving on to our next topic: viability of shield
jturner2k6 (9:23:46 PM): ...which isn't
thecheesiestwiz (9:23:48 PM): nah, if you sheild DI hits away and light sheild you get pushed too far back
theqerb (9:23:49 PM): lol
theqerb (9:23:51 PM): topic done.
jturner2k6 (9:23:53 PM): I say just keep out of your shield regardless
jturner2k6 (9:24:09 PM): even if you lightshield, you don't get a positioning advantage
Jim N Watch (9:24:12 PM): using shield sparingly
jturner2k6 (9:24:12 PM): because the shieldstun is just too great
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:16 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:24:18 PM): yup
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:19 PM): yea, it's an oh **** kind of thing
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:26 PM): lightshielding = massive frame ****
theqerb (9:24:29 PM): brb getting watermelon
Jim N Watch (9:24:30 PM): you can get hit 1 or 2 times then you can get poked
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:32 PM): lol
Jim N Watch (9:24:36 PM): but usually only after
Kirbykaze3038 (9:24:40 PM): fox's dair is so gay to lightshield
jturner2k6 (9:24:49 PM): yeah but jim, even if you manage to block an attack
jturner2k6 (9:24:51 PM): it does nothing to you
thecheesiestwiz (9:24:52 PM): i can imagine O.o
jturner2k6 (9:24:53 PM): for*
jturner2k6 (9:25:03 PM): GnW's OOS options are complete ***
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:09 PM): agreed
jturner2k6 (9:25:19 PM): anything you do out of shield can be punished effortlessly
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:20 PM): up b OoS on DL64 in the middle of the stage is pretty good >.>
theqerb (9:25:25 PM): kback
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:28 PM): that's about it though
theqerb (9:25:40 PM): hm
jturner2k6 (9:25:42 PM): I'm pretty sure you get a lot of landing lag if you do it straight from the ground to the top platform
theqerb (9:25:43 PM): i dont up-b oos against fox
theqerb (9:25:49 PM): unless he's above me maybe.
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:52 PM): i think that is wise
theqerb (9:25:54 PM): i feel it's too punishable
Kirbykaze3038 (9:25:56 PM): his u-smash is gay
thecheesiestwiz (9:25:56 PM): you pop up just a little above the stage so you don't get the massive lag
jturner2k6 (9:26:04 PM): Really?
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:07 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:26:08 PM): hrmm
Jim N Watch (9:26:11 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:26:11 PM): that's kinda good then
Kirbykaze3038 (9:26:18 PM): that's useful
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:23 PM): it's only worth it on DL64, and you'd BETTER ****ED HIT WITH IT
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:27 PM): or you get uaired haha
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:30 PM): it's... situational
jturner2k6 (9:26:31 PM): I'll have to remember that
Kirbykaze3038 (9:26:38 PM): tricks
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:42 PM): but if they don't know it it's a good gimmic
Jim N Watch (9:26:46 PM): most of g&w is situational
jturner2k6 (9:26:48 PM): yeah, GnW is a 2D ninja :D h
thecheesiestwiz (9:26:50 PM): they get hit, go for the uair and you can short hop a dair
theqerb (9:26:51 PM): lolol
theqerb (9:27:01 PM): there's no 'way'
theqerb (9:27:02 PM): to play gw
theqerb (9:27:05 PM): u just have to have
theqerb (9:27:07 PM): a **** ton of tricks
theqerb (9:27:09 PM): that work.
theqerb (9:27:15 PM): imo
theqerb (9:27:23 PM): every strat
Jim N Watch (9:27:27 PM): down b if your off the screen up high and it gives you enough falling lag to make a fox miss his second up air
theqerb (9:27:27 PM): has a zillion little tricks
theqerb (9:27:28 PM): that go with it
Jim N Watch (9:27:36 PM): :3
You are no longer rate limited, and you may now send messages. 9:27 pm
theqerb (9:27:50 PM): at what %s?
theqerb (9:27:52 PM): thats interesting.
thecheesiestwiz (9:27:54 PM): bucket is like foxes shine for missing attacks, cept youc an't cancel it
theqerb (9:28:01 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:28:02 PM): god ****it
Jim N Watch (9:28:02 PM): yup
jturner2k6 (9:28:04 PM): >:[
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:07 PM): aw
jturner2k6 (9:28:09 PM): alright so
theqerb (9:28:09 PM): useless move =/
jturner2k6 (9:28:14 PM): general concensus is:
jturner2k6 (9:28:19 PM): shield sucks
jturner2k6 (9:28:25 PM): don't use it
Jim N Watch (9:28:28 PM): mostly yea lol
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:30 PM): i've got a question about fox
theqerb (9:28:30 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:28:30 PM): amirite?
Jim N Watch (9:28:36 PM): sparingly i have to argue though
theqerb (9:28:39 PM): if you dont have to use it, dont.
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:40 PM): what the hell do we do from the ledge
Jim N Watch (9:28:47 PM): yea exactly aaron
thecheesiestwiz (9:28:49 PM): specifically on FD with no platforms to go to
Jim N Watch (9:28:57 PM): mindgame up b
jturner2k6 (9:29:03 PM): no
theqerb (9:29:03 PM): hm
theqerb (9:29:06 PM): sometimes
jturner2k6 (9:29:07 PM): that sounds awful
hJim N Watch (9:29:08 PM): he has a massive sweet spot too
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:20 PM): no, not recovering, i mean when you're getting back to the stage
Kirbykaze3038 (9:29:24 PM): does gaw has an invincible ledgedash like falco?
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:29 PM): and they're just waiting for you ouside of strong fair range
jturner2k6 (9:29:49 PM): an invincible ledgedash?
jturner2k6 (9:29:51 PM): Clarify please
Jim N Watch (9:29:56 PM): like how
thecheesiestwiz (9:29:57 PM): like sheik's wavlanding
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:01 PM): ffrom the edge
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:05 PM): double jump waveland onstage from the edge
jturner2k6 (9:30:10 PM): okay
jturner2k6 (9:30:12 PM): uhmm no
jturner2k6 (9:30:13 PM):
htheqerb (9:30:15 PM): i dont think so
theqerb (9:30:15 PM): lol
Jim N Watch (9:30:18 PM): no i dont think so haha
theqerb (9:30:18 PM): def not
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:29 PM): just a bit too slow, the first part is invincible
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:32 PM): he has to have some invincibility, i mean, even ganon has some and ganon's double jump is tiny
thecheesiestwiz (9:30:33 PM): but you get hit the last part of it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:34 PM): ok
theqerb (9:30:38 PM): sometimes i like to do the cf tactic
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:40 PM): what if you shortened it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:44 PM): i mean
theqerb (9:30:45 PM): edgehop waveland back and jump again
jturner2k6 (9:30:45 PM): yeah I was about to say
Kirbykaze3038 (9:30:48 PM): rather than trying to go deep
jturner2k6 (9:30:49 PM): waveland -> dair
theqerb (9:30:51 PM): ya
Jim N Watch (9:30:54 PM): up air from ledge, down air from lege, forward air from ledge, waveland to jab or chair from ledge is wat i do
theqerb (9:30:54 PM): try to bait fox
theqerb (9:30:56 PM): to come and shine
theqerb (9:30:58 PM): or usmash
theqerb (9:31:02 PM): then f-air his FACE
theqerb (9:31:04 PM): -D
jturner2k6 (9:31:07 PM): it's really hard to though qerb
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:07 PM): i like qerb's idea
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:12 PM): i'm trying to process everyone elses
jturner2k6 (9:31:21 PM): you can djump -> fair from the ledge and regrab
jturner2k6 (9:31:26 PM): like that ****tard Sheik can do
theqerb (9:31:30 PM): yea u can
theqerb (9:31:32 PM): i love it
theqerb (9:31:39 PM): but we're assuming, fox stays out of f-air range right?
jturner2k6 (9:31:44 PM): but a smart Fox isn't going to **** with you on the ledge
jturner2k6 (9:31:45 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:31:46 PM): if you wanna be a beast you can master ledgehop attack edge cancels
jturner2k6 (9:32:07 PM): waveland -> dair is definitely a viable option, but one you can only use sparingly
thecheesiestwiz (9:32:12 PM): i couldn't do anythign vs eggz last night when i was on the edge and he stayed just out of fair range
jturner2k6 (9:32:16 PM): if you do it every time obviously it's going to be punished
theqerb (9:32:21 PM): oh ya
theqerb (9:32:25 PM): you cant do it all the time
theqerb (9:32:38 PM): dammit j00t and cactuarz have the same color sn's
theqerb (9:32:41 PM): i cant tell the difference
jturner2k6 (9:32:53 PM): I think the dair will come out fast enough to beat all of Fox's aerials if the Fox isn't prepared for it
thecheesiestwiz (9:32:56 PM): lol i don't know what to do about it?
theqerb (9:33:03 PM): heh
theqerb (9:33:10 PM): but ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:10 PM): eggz just waited for somethign and ran in with an usmash =;/
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:14 PM): i think if you did a stationary waveland onto the stage you could probably get that far if fox is staying out of your strong fair range
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:20 PM): i've seen marths do it
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:26 PM): hmm
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:27 PM): because they also lack an invincible ledgedash
jturner2k6 (9:33:28 PM): yeah thanks for bringing that up kaze
thecheesiestwiz (9:33:32 PM): i'll keep that in mind
jturner2k6 (9:33:34 PM): just a double jump -> waveland into the ground
jturner2k6 (9:33:38 PM): is viable too
theqerb (9:33:50 PM): yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:54 PM): samuses do something like that too kind of
Kirbykaze3038 (9:33:58 PM): but they just double jump
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:03 PM): because they have weird floaty powers
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:05 PM): and are weird
jturner2k6 (9:34:09 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:34:16 PM): hmm
jturner2k6 (9:34:16 PM): other than that you can try waveland -> jab
theqerb (9:34:28 PM): i usually dont have a problem recovering against foxes, once i'm on the edge.
jturner2k6 (9:34:30 PM): or waveland -> dtilt
Kirbykaze3038 (9:34:37 PM): i think simply standing up is also really underrated
jturner2k6 (9:34:38 PM): both are fast moves
thecheesiestwiz (9:34:38 PM): hmm, can G&W drop to a point where they can do a no contact jump?
thecheesiestwiz (9:34:42 PM): or is that just platforms
theqerb (9:34:45 PM): yes
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:00 PM): ah, we should do that more often O.o
theqerb (9:35:24 PM): i edge camp alot
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:25 PM): i think that'd work out stupidly well
theqerb (9:35:26 PM): with no good reason
thecheesiestwiz (9:35:42 PM): eggz > edge camping x.x or i just couldn't do it
jturner2k6 (9:35:50 PM): there are more options on the edge than you might think with GnW
jturner2k6 (9:35:52 PM): just gotta be creative
theqerb (9:36:14 PM): when i played against eggm
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:16 PM): i'm definately gonna practice no contact landings and WD backward ledgehops
theqerb (9:36:17 PM): he just sat back
theqerb (9:36:18 PM): alll the way back
theqerb (9:36:20 PM): and lasered
theqerb (9:36:26 PM): he didnt edgeguard me at all
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:30 PM): i've got a fox that does that haha
theqerb (9:36:38 PM): lol
theqerb (9:36:40 PM): they scurred
thecheesiestwiz (9:36:44 PM): XD
theqerb (9:37:00 PM): dam
theqerb (9:37:02 PM): we sidetracked
theqerb (9:37:02 PM): so much
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:06 PM): yea
theqerb (9:37:08 PM): i dont even remember what we were talking about
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:10 PM): i wanna learn about campy fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:11 PM): =c
jturner2k6 (9:37:20 PM): gahhhhh
jturner2k6 (9:37:22 PM): **** my internet
sausabe (9:37:24 PM): :<
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:28 PM): later
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:30 PM): busy chatting
jturner2k6 (9:37:38 PM): ?
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:41 PM): nothing
thecheesiestwiz (9:37:46 PM): back to campy foxes?
theqerb (9:38:00 PM): yes
theqerb (9:38:05 PM): alot of the time
theqerb (9:38:15 PM): foxes get so indulged in spamming their lasers while retreating
theqerb (9:38:19 PM): that you can catch them off guard
theqerb (9:38:23 PM): and get a grab
theqerb (9:38:26 PM): if you're quick enough to react
theqerb (9:38:31 PM): does anyone know what im talking about
jturner2k6 (9:38:34 PM): yes
thecheesiestwiz (9:38:39 PM): i could see it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:38:39 PM): yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (9:38:49 PM): you sort of creep up on them
theqerb (9:38:58 PM): creeper status
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:01 PM): and then are like "surprise!"
jturner2k6 (9:39:05 PM): my main objective against a campy fox is
theqerb (9:39:14 PM): GRAB
jturner2k6 (9:39:15 PM): stay within range to punish with a jab or dtilt
jturner2k6 (9:39:17 PM): if they jump
jturner2k6 (9:39:24 PM): and then that leads to a grab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:28 PM): it is useful to make a fox complacent
theqerb (9:39:29 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:39:30 PM): hmm
theqerb (9:39:32 PM): something to lead to a grab
Kirbykaze3038 (9:39:35 PM): if they're willing to let that happen
theqerb (9:39:46 PM): also
theqerb (9:39:51 PM): you really have to capitalize
theqerb (9:39:55 PM): when you get a chance
theqerb (9:39:59 PM): it's like falcon/sheik matchup
jturner2k6 (9:40:05 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:40:08 PM): if falcon doesnt do some crazy tech chasing 0-deaths
theqerb (9:40:10 PM): he's not gonna win
theqerb (9:40:13 PM): against a good shark.
jturner2k6 (9:40:15 PM): eh
jturner2k6 (9:40:19 PM): I'm not gonna take it that far
theqerb (9:40:22 PM): ya
jturner2k6 (9:40:25 PM): for me it's more about
theqerb (9:40:26 PM): that was an exaguration
jturner2k6 (9:40:27 PM): getting the Fox in the air
theqerb (9:40:30 PM): (spelling)
jturner2k6 (9:40:44 PM): because a Fox above you isn't the best position for Fox to be in
theqerb (9:40:55 PM): a fox above you is great
jturner2k6 (9:41:01 PM): right
jturner2k6 (9:41:16 PM): alright so we've covered
jturner2k6 (9:41:17 PM): stages
jturner2k6 (9:41:28 PM): approach and defensive options
thecheesiestwiz (9:41:32 PM): i like yoshi's vs fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:41:42 PM): what do you guys think before we skip past
jturner2k6 (9:41:48 PM): alright yoshi's story
jturner2k6 (9:42:05 PM): it's kinda a mixed bag
jturner2k6 (9:42:15 PM): you're going to die super early to Fox
theqerb (9:42:17 PM): i love it
theqerb (9:42:25 PM): but yes
theqerb (9:42:28 PM): sadly this is true
theqerb (9:42:39 PM): the bottom platforms are positioned amazingly
jturner2k6 (9:42:43 PM): and the small sides on Yoshi's don't really benefit GnW, as GnW is more about edgeguarding than straight out killing
theqerb (9:42:48 PM): you can n-air through it with a short hop
thecheesiestwiz (9:42:49 PM): up b trips kill easier
theqerb (9:42:54 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:05 PM): i find it's easier to gimp on yoshi's
theqerb (9:43:12 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:14 PM): since they fall down too quick
jturner2k6 (9:43:20 PM): I don't
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:20 PM): and they die in a range they'd be able to recover
jturner2k6 (9:43:28 PM): that stupid cloud messes me up a lot
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:30 PM): weak fairs/up b through their charge up b
Kirbykaze3038 (9:43:33 PM): i find that it's easier to reach them when they're recovering high for some reason
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:35 PM): lol randall <3
Kirbykaze3038 (9:43:38 PM): on yoshi's story
thecheesiestwiz (9:43:58 PM): i like them low on that stage
jturner2k6 (9:44:03 PM): yeah a ledgehop nair covers most of the platform
theqerb (9:44:04 PM): yea
theqerb (9:44:08 PM): well if they're below the edge
theqerb (9:44:10 PM): that's a dead fox
theqerb (9:44:13 PM): if they're above
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:18 PM): haha, super situational shy guy tricks are awesome there
theqerb (9:44:21 PM): they can either sweetspot edge with up b, or land on that platform
theqerb (9:44:27 PM): which can throw you off potentially
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:30 PM): if you can usmash a shy guy it leads to hits a lot
theqerb (9:44:33 PM): lol
theqerb (9:44:35 PM): hit xfer
thecheesiestwiz (9:44:38 PM): no lie
theqerb (9:45:02 PM): i'm a fan of jumping out to edgeguard
theqerb (9:45:03 PM): on ys
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:07 PM): lol yes
Kirbykaze3038 (9:45:16 PM): jumping out to edgeguard is awesome
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:17 PM): though foxes like to sweetspot from above
jturner2k6 (9:45:23 PM): you can do that on any stage though
thecheesiestwiz (9:45:24 PM): then shine you comin back with invincible ledge hops =c
theqerb (9:45:27 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:45:30 PM): just saying that stage in particular
theqerb (9:45:33 PM): on a stage like bf
theqerb (9:45:39 PM): you dont know if they're gonn go for the edge or the platform
theqerb (9:45:44 PM): so it's a lil more risky to jump out
jturner2k6 (9:45:49 PM): I personally think that Yoshi's is a stage you want to strike
theqerb (9:45:58 PM): hmmmm
theqerb (9:46:16 PM): lets talk about that
jturner2k6 (9:46:17 PM): it's a little bit harder to sweetspot on that stage
theqerb (9:46:19 PM): what stages to strike
jturner2k6 (9:46:27 PM): well obviously pokemon stadium
theqerb (9:46:30 PM): i can sweetspot it (::
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:33 PM): DL64 for sure
theqerb (9:46:36 PM): well stadium isnt neutral anymore
jturner2k6 (9:46:40 PM): right
theqerb (9:46:41 PM): so u dont have to strike it
jturner2k6 (9:46:42 PM): lol
theqerb (9:46:45 PM): heh
jturner2k6 (9:46:46 PM): uhmm let's see
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:46 PM): and that stage you can only sweetspot if you don't ride the wall right?
theqerb (9:46:47 PM): which is amazing.
thecheesiestwiz (9:46:50 PM): *YS
theqerb (9:46:55 PM): yea i believe so
thecheesiestwiz (9:47:11 PM): which makes it hard for some people to sweet spot x.x
theqerb (9:47:33 PM): ionno
theqerb (9:47:35 PM): i never have problems
theqerb (9:47:37 PM): recovering on ys.
theqerb (9:47:40 PM): against fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:47:49 PM): same
theqerb (9:47:52 PM): im not gonna say never
theqerb (9:47:56 PM): because there's the occaisonal
theqerb (9:47:58 PM): get shine etc
theqerb (9:48:00 PM): but i mean
theqerb (9:48:04 PM): sweetspotting wise
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:06 PM): i get shined WAY less on there
theqerb (9:48:09 PM): ya
theqerb (9:48:11 PM): and if u do get shined
You are about to be rate limited. Please wait a few seconds before sending, to avoid being rate limited 9:48 pm
theqerb (9:48:14 PM): u can tech off the side
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:29 PM): lol, and if you dont' you're dead no matter what stage it is
theqerb (9:48:37 PM): lol o ya
theqerb (9:48:48 PM): but so
theqerb (9:48:50 PM): what stages
thecheesiestwiz (9:48:53 PM): DL64
theqerb (9:48:56 PM): would u guys strike against fox
theqerb (9:49:03 PM): assuming ps is not neutral
sausabe (9:49:15 PM): I used to be afraid of YS because of the difficulty of sweet-spotting and the closeness of the blastzones but I'm starting to like it against spacies.
sausabe (9:49:24 PM): *being late like an ********
theqerb (9:49:28 PM): hehe
theqerb (9:49:29 PM): np
thecheesiestwiz (9:49:38 PM): other than DL64 i just choose FD cause i like to edge cancel >.> which is a bad reason
theqerb (9:49:58 PM): rofl
theqerb (9:50:12 PM): i usually strike fd and battlefield
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:18 PM): i'd consider battlefield or yoshi's depending on the fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:50:32 PM): invite j00t again plox
theqerb (9:50:34 PM): ok
thecheesiestwiz (9:50:41 PM): yea i can see battlefeild for sure
jturner2k6 has been invited. 9:50 pm
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:45 PM): if they're the kind that likes to really mess around with platforms and do lots and lots of camping on them
jturner2k6 (9:50:52 PM): alright god ****it
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:53 PM): i dislike the idea of needing to double jump to reach them
jturner2k6 (9:50:54 PM): >:[
jturner2k6 (9:50:57 PM): What'd I miss
Kirbykaze3038 (9:50:58 PM): so battlefield
theqerb (9:51:01 PM): we're talking about
theqerb (9:51:06 PM): stages to strike
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:07 PM): why double jump, SH nair
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:09 PM): or uair
theqerb (9:51:09 PM): and bf right now
Kirbykaze3038 (9:51:18 PM): on the top platform?
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:19 PM): unless you mean top
Kirbykaze3038 (9:51:20 PM): ._.
jturner2k6 (9:51:21 PM): What's the concensus so far?
theqerb (9:51:28 PM): we seem to all have
jturner2k6 (9:51:30 PM): I think BF is one of our best stages
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:37 PM): jump waveland off side platform jump uair edge cancel
theqerb (9:51:42 PM): i dont like playing bf =/
thecheesiestwiz (9:51:45 PM): off top platform
jturner2k6 (9:51:46 PM): wat
theqerb (9:51:50 PM): i get shined
theqerb (9:51:53 PM): and die
theqerb (9:51:58 PM): especially off the platforms
thecheesiestwiz (9:52:07 PM): i get shined off DL64 *anger*
theqerb (9:52:07 PM): when u get shined off a platform, it rapeees you
jturner2k6 (9:52:18 PM): hrmm
theqerb (9:52:18 PM): but i do like the platforms on bf
theqerb (9:52:24 PM): other than that
theqerb (9:52:30 PM): makes it hard for fox to approach
theqerb (9:52:33 PM): harder*
jturner2k6 (9:52:44 PM): yeah also
jturner2k6 (9:52:57 PM): there's nothing to tech on
jturner2k6 (9:53:00 PM): if you get shined into the stage
theqerb (9:53:03 PM): oh ya
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:08 PM): lol true that
jturner2k6 (9:53:09 PM): so I can see where you're coming from
theqerb (9:53:15 PM): yeah that stage
theqerb (9:53:18 PM): is the stage i gimped the most on
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:18 PM): no wall to ride
theqerb (9:53:19 PM): by fox
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:27 PM): really 2 dimensional recovery options
theqerb (9:53:42 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (9:53:49 PM): So what stage should we strike first?
theqerb (9:53:53 PM): and it' easy for fox to
thecheesiestwiz (9:53:53 PM): DL64
theqerb (9:53:57 PM): shine you while u recover
jturner2k6 (9:53:58 PM): I say DL64 by far
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:11 PM): then i'd say strike mute city
theqerb (9:54:16 PM): mute isnt neutral
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:16 PM): er battlefeild
jturner2k6 (9:54:17 PM): what?
theqerb (9:54:23 PM): o ok
jturner2k6 (9:54:23 PM): mute city is banned out the *******
theqerb (9:54:24 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:54:24 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:32 PM): i play in a weird region
jturner2k6 (9:54:32 PM): hrmm
theqerb (9:54:32 PM): out of the *******.
thecheesiestwiz (9:54:36 PM): let's leaveg it at that
sausabe (9:54:39 PM): I miss that stage @___@
theqerb (9:54:51 PM): i ban fd now instead of dream land
theqerb (9:54:53 PM): because
theqerb (9:54:57 PM): ppl usually ban dream land for me
theqerb (9:55:00 PM): i've learned.
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:00 PM): lol
theqerb (9:55:04 PM): ppl like to ban dl and fod
theqerb (9:55:05 PM): against gw
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:12 PM): everyone bans brinstar against me >.>
theqerb (9:55:13 PM): they wanna play u on small stages
theqerb (9:55:16 PM): i mean
theqerb (9:55:17 PM): strike*
theqerb (9:55:18 PM): not ban
theqerb (9:55:20 PM): my fault
thecheesiestwiz (9:55:22 PM): ok
theqerb (9:55:45 PM): ppl think hmm dream land, high ceiling, big stage, gw will live longer
theqerb (9:55:47 PM): STRIKE
jturner2k6 (9:56:08 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:56:13 PM): my main goal is to play fox on either fod (preferably) or yoshi's game 1
theqerb (9:56:15 PM): of a set
thecheesiestwiz (9:56:15 PM): so against fox you want to play, and in this order FoD, YS, FD/BF, DL64
sausabe (9:56:22 PM): That's interesting. I'm going to start considering that now.
jturner2k6 (9:56:23 PM): the two stages i would strike are
theqerb (9:56:33 PM): thats def my preference cactuarz
theqerb (9:56:33 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (9:56:40 PM): Yoshis and DL64
jturner2k6 (9:56:50 PM): I'm just more comfortable on BF than on yoshis
jturner2k6 (9:57:00 PM): but that's just personal taste
htheqerb (9:57:03 PM): yeah
theqerb (9:57:05 PM): i was just going to say
thecheesiestwiz (9:57:14 PM): i'd say just strike one of the 2 most hated levels that you think your opponent wants to play on
sausabe (9:57:14 PM): I'd prefer ys to bf, personally.
thecheesiestwiz (9:57:23 PM): and hope they ban one of the ones you want to if you strike first
sausabe (9:57:29 PM): Even if it's just to avoid the aggravation of BF ledges
jturner2k6 (9:57:51 PM): I dunno why we're talking about striking DL64
theqerb (9:57:56 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (9:57:59 PM): it isn't a neutral most of the time is it?
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:05 PM): it's always a nuetral
theqerb (9:58:07 PM): i think we meant
theqerb (9:58:09 PM): striking it
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:10 PM): even japan plays on it O.o
theqerb (9:58:12 PM): mixing words up
jturner2k6 (9:58:19 PM): Really?
theqerb (9:58:23 PM): i think so
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:26 PM): that's the one with the wind
theqerb (9:58:27 PM): why would u ban dl against fox
theqerb (9:58:28 PM): when you have
theqerb (9:58:32 PM): ps and rainbow cruise
theqerb (9:58:33 PM): to ban
theqerb (9:58:33 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (9:58:35 PM): oh wait
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:37 PM): oh ban not strike
jturner2k6 (9:58:39 PM): not dream land
jturner2k6 (9:58:44 PM): fuuuck I'm so confused
theqerb (9:58:46 PM): haha
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:47 PM): thinking kongo jungle?
sausabe (9:58:48 PM): lol > <
jturner2k6 (9:58:49 PM): I meant kongo jungle 64
theqerb (9:58:52 PM): oh oh oh
thecheesiestwiz (9:58:53 PM): cause i LOVE that stage vs fox
jturner2k6 (9:58:56 PM): alright
jturner2k6 (9:58:58 PM): Kongo Jungle 64
jturner2k6 (9:59:01 PM): is complete ***
theqerb (9:59:05 PM): i dont like it either
jturner2k6 (9:59:06 PM): so strike it if it is neutral
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:06 PM): watttt
theqerb (9:59:13 PM): fox has too many recovery options
Jim N Watch (9:59:21 PM): i actually like it
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:21 PM): G&W has too many recovery options
theqerb (9:59:23 PM): harder to edgeguard
jturner2k6 (9:59:25 PM): it's the same deal as Rainbow Cruise
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:29 PM): G&W is harder to edge guard
theqerb (9:59:31 PM): does he?
Jim N Watch (9:59:31 PM): recovering from under is fun
jturner2k6 (9:59:31 PM): you can get outcamped
theqerb (9:59:33 PM): like what
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:38 PM): you have under the platform
theqerb (9:59:41 PM): recoering from under is mad fun.
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:43 PM): and the barrel
theqerb (9:59:45 PM): not gonna lie
Jim N Watch (9:59:47 PM): oh nya
thecheesiestwiz (9:59:49 PM): and bucket stalling to get to the barrel
Jim N Watch (9:59:50 PM): lol
theqerb (9:59:54 PM): lolol
Jim N Watch (9:59:59 PM): oh i havent thought of that thank you
Jim N Watch (10:00:02 PM): :-D
theqerb (10:00:06 PM): well he barrel is kinda punishable
theqerb (10:00:09 PM): lots of lag out of it
sausabe (10:00:14 PM): Kongo is pretty legit against spacies imo
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:15 PM): not usually
theqerb (10:00:16 PM): not really a recovery "option"
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:21 PM): G&W flies so far out of that barrel
jturner2k6 (10:00:22 PM): I don't think so
theqerb (10:00:24 PM): i like it kongo against FALCO
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:25 PM): so high in the sky
theqerb (10:00:26 PM): not fox tho
theqerb (10:00:32 PM): i like kongo*
Jim N Watch (10:00:32 PM): why falco??
jturner2k6 (10:00:33 PM): GnW's aerial mobility is terrible
thecheesiestwiz (10:00:35 PM): i like it against fox not falco O.o
theqerb (10:00:39 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:00:42 PM): and you're gonna get outcamped
theqerb (10:00:43 PM): because
theqerb (10:00:48 PM): it's so easy to avoid lasers on kongo
jturner2k6 (10:00:49 PM): by a Fox on KJ64
theqerb (10:00:56 PM): ground is unlevel
Jim N Watch (10:00:57 PM): hahaha your right i can see that
theqerb (10:01:01 PM): u-tilt is amazing
theqerb (10:01:03 PM): against him
theqerb (10:01:06 PM): but we're talking about fox
theqerb (10:01:07 PM): heh
thecheesiestwiz (10:01:10 PM): j00t, up b from just above ground onto top platform edge cancel if you wanna get up quickly
jturner2k6 (10:01:13 PM): yeah we'll talk about Falco next week
theqerb (10:01:19 PM): hell yea
jturner2k6 (10:01:22 PM): the Fox is already gone by that time
theqerb (10:01:23 PM): my fave matchup to play
Jim N Watch (10:01:29 PM): he has chain grab v fox and falco to 50-60% btw dont know if anyone mentioned
jturner2k6 (10:01:39 PM): we've covered that alright
thecheesiestwiz (10:01:42 PM): i can only do it till 35 x.x
theqerb (10:01:43 PM): my problem with kongo jungle is
jturner2k6 (10:01:51 PM): GnW actually has an "infinite" dthrow chaingrab on Fox/Falco/Falcon
Kirbykaze3038 (10:01:53 PM): i find d-throw d-smash is sometimes good for setting up combos
Jim N Watch (10:01:53 PM): i doit to 50 usualy
Jim N Watch (10:02:01 PM): i dont know about infinite...
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:06 PM): lol
theqerb (10:02:07 PM): when i think fox is gonna recover to the edge and goes for the top platform instead, i cant get get to the platform in time to still edgeguard him, cuz the top platform is so high up.
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:11 PM): dthrow dsmash looks cool as hell
jturner2k6 (10:02:16 PM): dthrow chaingrab is infinite until they DI off the stage
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:30 PM): qerb, up b to get to them up high and edge cancel the land
Jim N Watch (10:02:33 PM): downthrow downsmash with who??
theqerb (10:02:37 PM): hm
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:38 PM): game & watch
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:40 PM): vs space animals
Jim N Watch (10:02:50 PM): actually its up throw chaingrab
Kirbykaze3038 (10:02:51 PM): if they di the throw away at certain percents
theqerb (10:02:52 PM): not really your ideal edgeguard tho cactuarz =/
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:54 PM): usually the lip going up ehn come down with a bair
thecheesiestwiz (10:02:59 PM): it's better than nothing?
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:00 PM): lol
theqerb (10:03:03 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:04 PM): gaw can cg with d-throw too
theqerb (10:03:05 PM): BUT
jturner2k6 (10:03:08 PM): jim
theqerb (10:03:09 PM): that's why i dont like that stage!
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:09 PM): but this is easier
theqerb (10:03:11 PM): cuz that happens.
jturner2k6 (10:03:12 PM): GnW has a dthrow chaingrab
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:14 PM): because it takes some of the reaction out
jturner2k6 (10:03:15 PM): on fox/falco/falcon
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:17 PM): if you think they're going to go high it's pretty easy to double jump nair
Jim N Watch (10:03:22 PM): yea?
thecheesiestwiz (10:03:23 PM): it's a guessing game, 50 50
theqerb (10:03:27 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:03:31 PM): and it's semi-infinite
theqerb (10:03:32 PM): i dont like d-throwing fox
theqerb (10:03:35 PM): i'd rather do
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:36 PM): if you see them di in you grab
theqerb (10:03:41 PM): anything else
Kirbykaze3038 (10:03:41 PM): if you see them di away you flick down
theqerb (10:03:41 PM): i guess
jturner2k6 (10:03:43 PM): well obviously uthrow if you can
theqerb (10:03:45 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:03:49 PM): but dthrow works too
theqerb (10:03:50 PM): if i'm ever near either edge
theqerb (10:03:53 PM): i always throw them in that direction
theqerb (10:03:55 PM): b or f throw
theqerb (10:03:57 PM): cuz you can either
theqerb (10:04:01 PM): f-air them if they di it TO you
jturner2k6 (10:04:04 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:04:07 PM): well nair
theqerb (10:04:07 PM): or they have to recover with up b or over b
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:07 PM): does anyone here look at the opponent's controllers when you grab them and follow DI that way?
jturner2k6 (10:04:08 PM): but w/e
jturner2k6 (10:04:08 PM):
htheqerb (10:04:10 PM): if they di away
theqerb (10:04:11 PM): yea or nair
theqerb (10:04:17 PM): too good
jturner2k6 (10:04:23 PM): what I do is
theqerb (10:04:24 PM): haha
theqerb (10:04:26 PM): i never do that
jturner2k6 (10:04:27 PM): dthrow until I get them to ledge
jturner2k6 (10:04:29 PM): and then throw them off
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:34 PM): near edge f/bthrowing works well like always
Jim N Watch (10:04:34 PM): O.O is that cheating haha
jturner2k6 (10:04:37 PM): any direction they DI is amazing for GnW
theqerb (10:04:42 PM): dam j00t
theqerb (10:04:44 PM): that sounds
thecheesiestwiz (10:04:47 PM): nah, it's just risky haha
theqerb (10:04:48 PM): unbeatable
theqerb (10:04:49 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:05:00 PM): what?
jturner2k6 (10:05:02 PM): dthrow chaingrab?
theqerb (10:05:05 PM): d-throw to the edge
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:05 PM): if they di to the edge depending on percent you can just combo d-throw f-smash
theqerb (10:05:09 PM): b/f-throw off
theqerb (10:05:10 PM): gimp
theqerb (10:05:11 PM): gg
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:13 PM): no, looking at opponetns controller in chaingrabs to read DI
theqerb (10:05:22 PM): true
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:23 PM): dthrow fsmash is too good
jturner2k6 (10:05:29 PM): yeah dthrow fsmash is legit
theqerb (10:05:30 PM): f-smash is such a good move
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:39 PM): WD back fsmash ala samus
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:43 PM): fsmash is one of the biggest reasons i like this character
theqerb (10:05:49 PM): fsmash
Kirbykaze3038 (10:05:51 PM): he lights them on fire
theqerb (10:05:52 PM): against puff
theqerb (10:05:53 PM): <333
thecheesiestwiz (10:05:56 PM): XD
theqerb (10:05:57 PM): all day
sausabe (10:06:00 PM): Yes <3
theqerb (10:06:06 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:06:07 PM): alright I need to wrap this up
thecheesiestwiz (10:06:08 PM): yesterday at the tourney i went to i found a lot of use with my chair
jturner2k6 (10:06:16 PM): Anything else we need to talk about for Fox?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:22 PM): when they're lasering
jturner2k6 (10:06:25 PM): I'm gonna be thinking up ways to organize our chat sessions better
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:26 PM): has anyone tried to do a marth
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:28 PM): and like
jturner2k6 (10:06:29 PM): because I felt today was a little bit too hectic
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:31 PM): run in f-smash?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:06:35 PM): or wd f-smash?
theqerb (10:06:41 PM): wd behind ythem
jturner2k6 (10:06:41 PM): well
sausabe (10:06:44 PM): I wd f-smash
theqerb (10:06:44 PM): fsmash
theqerb (10:06:46 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (10:06:52 PM): if GnW's fsmash was a big as Marth's
jturner2k6 (10:06:54 PM): then I would try it
sausabe (10:06:57 PM): usually out of shield
jturner2k6 (10:06:57 PM):
hthecheesiestwiz (10:07:02 PM): i should try wavedash forward fsmash
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:07 PM): i think that'd **** with spacing a lot
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:10 PM): with a lot of chars
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:15 PM): i like run past fsmash too
theqerb (10:07:19 PM): against most floaties
theqerb (10:07:21 PM): it's so good
theqerb (10:07:23 PM): marf peach puff
theqerb (10:07:26 PM): ones i know of
Kirbykaze3038 (10:07:32 PM): also has anyone tried to fj back dair vs fox shffls?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:07:41 PM): because sometiems i'm too close to wd back
jturner2k6 (10:07:45 PM): that's more effective vs. Falco
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:46 PM): i haven't, sounds like it'd be rough
theqerb (10:07:48 PM): agree
thecheesiestwiz (10:07:51 PM): like to pull off
theqerb (10:07:54 PM): better against falco
theqerb (10:08:02 PM): also i think
theqerb (10:08:07 PM): fox can shine you out of it
theqerb (10:08:09 PM): if he sees it
jturner2k6 (10:08:10 PM): but I still like "air planking" with fair vs. Fox sometimes
jturner2k6 (10:08:17 PM): not fair
theqerb (10:08:17 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:08:17 PM): dair
jturner2k6 (10:08:18 PM): sorry
jturner2k6 (10:08:18 PM): :x h
theqerb (10:08:21 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:08:28 PM): but yeah dair in general is better vs. Falco
theqerb (10:08:33 PM): def
theqerb (10:08:38 PM): fox can punish it
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:39 PM): dair is great for combos on fox
theqerb (10:08:39 PM): much easier
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:45 PM): not so much starting
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:47 PM): but in the middle
theqerb (10:08:47 PM): especially if you get the second hit
theqerb (10:08:48 PM): of the d-air
thecheesiestwiz (10:08:56 PM): 2'nd hit just pisses people off =p
theqerb (10:09:06 PM): also for edgeguarding fox
jturner2k6 (10:09:07 PM): alright guys anything else?
theqerb (10:09:11 PM): if you predict a forward-b
jturner2k6 (10:09:11 PM): Qerb have you been taking notes?
htheqerb (10:09:13 PM): to the edge
theqerb (10:09:15 PM): haha yes.
theqerb (10:09:22 PM): just use the chair
jturner2k6 (10:09:22 PM): alright continue qerb
thecheesiestwiz (10:09:26 PM): if a fox is under a platform edge edge canceld dairs **** their shield pretty well
theqerb (10:09:31 PM): once u hit them with that
theqerb (10:09:33 PM): they drop below the edge
thecheesiestwiz (10:09:40 PM): yes, chair was doing so good
theqerb (10:09:43 PM): you run off the stage jump f-air
jturner2k6 (10:09:48 PM): yeah if you hit with chair or dtilt on their recovery
theqerb (10:09:48 PM): everytime it kills
jturner2k6 (10:09:49 PM): they are ****ed
theqerb (10:09:51 PM): yes
jturner2k6 (10:09:52 PM): they should die
jturner2k6 (10:09:55 PM): if they don't then you're terrible
theqerb (10:09:55 PM): i go for it
jturner2k6 (10:09:56 PM):
htheqerb (10:09:57 PM): alot
Kirbykaze3038 (10:09:57 PM): soft fair is so ****
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:01 PM): for gimping
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:04 PM): yes
theqerb (10:10:05 PM): oh a
theqerb (10:10:07 PM): it's instant kill
theqerb (10:10:10 PM): ya*
jturner2k6 (10:10:11 PM): yeah
jturner2k6 (10:10:14 PM): soft fair -> strong fair
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:15 PM): so is up b'ing from below the fox when they reocver low
jturner2k6 (10:10:15 PM): all dai
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:28 PM): i bet you could do a m2k style gimp
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:33 PM): with soft fair up+b
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:36 PM): you can, it works well
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:36 PM): or some garbage
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:38 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:10:43 PM): heh
jturner2k6 (10:10:44 PM): okay I want to say something else about edgeguarding
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:44 PM): you can soft fair to keyspike too
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:46 PM): if you're dairing
Kirbykaze3038 (10:10:47 PM): take that tech-savvy foxes
thecheesiestwiz (10:10:57 PM): oh god
theqerb (10:10:58 PM): soft f-air to hard f-air
jturner2k6 (10:10:58 PM): if a Fox is below the stage and is firefoxing straight up
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:00 PM): why am i making bad puns
theqerb (10:11:00 PM): in the same jump
sausabe (10:11:03 PM): lol
theqerb (10:11:03 PM): if they di towards you
jturner2k6 (10:11:09 PM): what I like to do is run off -> bair
theqerb (10:11:14 PM): haha me too
theqerb (10:11:17 PM): but they can tech it
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:19 PM): i don't like run off bair
theqerb (10:11:20 PM): usually
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:21 PM): i hate gaw's bair
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:24 PM): soemtimes
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:25 PM): SDI + tech
theqerb (10:11:25 PM): yeah i dont think it's good
theqerb (10:11:27 PM): but i love doing it
jturner2k6 (10:11:29 PM): GnW's bair is so good
theqerb (10:11:29 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:11:34 PM): I almost like it more than fair tbh
theqerb (10:11:39 PM): i think his b-air is only good on stage if you edge cancel it
Kirbykaze3038 (10:11:40 PM): i wish it could l-cancel
theqerb (10:11:40 PM): otherwise it's bad
theqerb (10:11:41 PM): imo
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:43 PM): G&W's bair is so ****, edge cancels everywhere
thecheesiestwiz (10:11:49 PM): that's why you edge cancel it
htheqerb (10:11:52 PM): heh
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:03 PM): you can edgecancel his other aerials
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:04 PM): well
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:06 PM): his fair
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:08 PM): and dair iirc
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:09 PM): all of them
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:14 PM): *l-cancel
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:16 PM): i fail
theqerb (10:12:21 PM): lol
theqerb (10:12:22 PM): i gotcha
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:23 PM): edge cancel nair is great for combos
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:30 PM): but hard to pull off sadly
theqerb (10:12:41 PM): yeah it is hard to pull off
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:43 PM): that's why we all like fod
Kirbykaze3038 (10:12:48 PM): it makes edgecancels ezmode
thecheesiestwiz (10:12:50 PM): it's easy to edge cancel, just hard to set up
theqerb (10:12:53 PM): yess
jturner2k6 (10:12:54 PM): run off bair is good if your opponent can't SDI
jturner2k6 (10:12:58 PM): I'll just leave it at that
jturner2k6 (10:12:59 PM):
hthecheesiestwiz (10:12:59 PM): G&W makes edge cancels easy mode >.>
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:08 PM): try haha
theqerb (10:13:09 PM): lol yeah
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:09 PM): true
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:11 PM): fod's platforms make them super duper ezmode
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:20 PM): lol
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:21 PM): and they're sometimes just really nicely arranged for us and everything
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:22 PM): =D
theqerb (10:13:25 PM): we didnt talk about
theqerb (10:13:28 PM): gw u-air
theqerb (10:13:29 PM): against fox
theqerb (10:13:30 PM): D=
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:35 PM): fox is on a platform above you
theqerb (10:13:40 PM): do it.
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:41 PM): uair sheild poke every time
jturner2k6 (10:13:44 PM): pretty self explanatory IMO
theqerb (10:13:47 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:49 PM): i hate his uair
thecheesiestwiz (10:13:53 PM): also DI your own uair so you edge cancel
theqerb (10:13:54 PM): =/
Kirbykaze3038 (10:13:57 PM): but i must learn it
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:00 PM): they get sucked into both hits
jturner2k6 (10:14:01 PM): kaze isn't a GnW main obviously
jturner2k6 (10:14:04 PM):
hthecheesiestwiz (10:14:04 PM): you get free hit after
theqerb (10:14:06 PM): hahah
jturner2k6 (10:14:07 PM): KICK HIM
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:08 PM): i'm a sheik man
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:09 PM): =/
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:15 PM): SHEIK SCUM
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:16 PM): er
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:19 PM): i guess you're ok
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:20 PM): lol mm?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:21 PM): <3
theqerb (10:14:26 PM): kaze tell us how to play sheik vs gw
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:26 PM): totally <3
jturner2k6 (10:14:27 PM): uair = vuvuzela
theqerb (10:14:27 PM): next time
theqerb (10:14:28 PM): =/
jturner2k6 (10:14:30 PM): so it's obviously good
theqerb (10:14:32 PM): roflrofl
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:39 PM): what
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:42 PM): how to play vs sheik?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:45 PM): or backwards?
thecheesiestwiz (10:14:49 PM): i like sheik vs G&W as long as they aren't needle camping grabs
theqerb (10:14:53 PM): vs sheik
theqerb (10:14:54 PM): as gw
jturner2k6 (10:14:57 PM): alright
Kirbykaze3038 (10:14:58 PM): bait ccs
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:04 PM): then **** her for it
jturner2k6 (10:15:04 PM): can we save sheik vs gnw for some other time?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:07 PM): ok
jturner2k6 (10:15:08 PM): like after Falco week?
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:10 PM): k
theqerb (10:15:12 PM): kkkk
theqerb (10:15:14 PM): sry
theqerb (10:15:14 PM): lol
theqerb (10:15:16 PM): (:
jturner2k6 (10:15:17 PM): np
jturner2k6 (10:15:17 PM):
hjturner2k6 (10:15:19 PM): alright
jturner2k6 (10:15:20 PM): so
jturner2k6 (10:15:28 PM): ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WITH FOX
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:33 PM): not really
thecheesiestwiz (10:15:34 PM): mmk, quick not vs sheik, dtilt their CC from about 30-65% and you can jab reset them afterwards, i'm dont withs heik now
Kirbykaze3038 (10:15:52 PM): cg her all the way to 43
jturner2k6 (10:15:54 PM): I think everything has been covered with Fox
theqerb (10:16:02 PM): i like to tech chase 9
theqerb (10:16:04 PM): against fox
theqerb (10:16:08 PM): when i throw him onto a platform
theqerb (10:16:09 PM): =D
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:09 PM): off platforums
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:11 PM): yea
theqerb (10:16:15 PM): they get so mad
jturner2k6 (10:16:17 PM): that's so... bad
jturner2k6 (10:16:19 PM): >_>;
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:23 PM): um, how do you guys feel about brinstar and KJ and FoD
thecheesiestwiz (10:16:29 PM): what's the best CP in your eyes
theqerb (10:16:30 PM): it's bad
theqerb (10:16:32 PM): ON PAPER
theqerb (10:16:34 PM): but when i use it
jturner2k6 (10:16:34 PM): lol
theqerb (10:16:36 PM): it's greatness
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:37 PM): i like fod
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:39 PM): the most
theqerb (10:16:39 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:16:39 PM): <3 qerb
Kirbykaze3038 (10:16:42 PM): but i hate cps
theqerb (10:16:46 PM): haha <3
jturner2k6 (10:16:50 PM): I'd say FoD is your best choice for a counterpick
theqerb (10:16:56 PM): i like brinstar moar
jturner2k6 (10:16:58 PM): if they ban FD
jturner2k6 (10:17:00 PM): if they ban FoD
jturner2k6 (10:17:01 PM): then go FD
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:01 PM): i'd probably do fd
theqerb (10:17:02 PM): but not vs mango's fox >_>
jturner2k6 (10:17:04 PM): because FD is ****
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:11 PM): fod or fd
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:14 PM): brinstar next
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:14 PM): eggz is hella good at brinstar i learned =/
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:23 PM): kj64 is just like
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:25 PM): too big
Kirbykaze3038 (10:17:29 PM): i don't like how big it is
theqerb (10:17:34 PM): thats what she said
theqerb (10:17:39 PM): i dont like it either
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:39 PM): KJ64 i've had success since a lot of foxes don'w know how to play that stage
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:40 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:17:40 PM): yeah you get outcamped on KJ64
jturner2k6 (10:17:45 PM): it's the same thing as rainbow cruise
jturner2k6 (10:17:56 PM): If I get counterpicked to KJ64 I'll just go Falcon
thecheesiestwiz (10:17:58 PM): i feel a lot of people get uncomfortable on KJ64
jturner2k6 (10:17:59 PM): :/ h
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:01 PM): the ****** is only like 5-6 inches long or something
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:07 PM): so yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:18:12 PM): i could see a woman saying that
jturner2k6 (10:18:14 PM): alright so let's end this with a summary
jturner2k6 (10:18:19 PM): and by a summary I mean a matchup ratio
jturner2k6 (10:18:20 PM): Qerb?
theqerb (10:18:25 PM): um
theqerb (10:18:30 PM): fox vs gw ratio?
jturner2k6 (10:18:32 PM): yes
theqerb (10:18:38 PM): im feeling alot of pressure
theqerb (10:18:39 PM): right now
jturner2k6 (10:18:43 PM): lol
sausabe (10:18:46 PM): heh
theqerb (10:18:47 PM): based on the fact that
thecheesiestwiz (10:18:54 PM): it's liake a 65 35 matchup, obviously in GY&W's favor
theqerb (10:18:54 PM): fox has such a big stage advantage
theqerb (10:19:02 PM): he def has a decently sized advantage
jturner2k6 (10:19:05 PM): I'll go ahead and say 70/30 for Fox
Kirbykaze3038 (10:19:05 PM): 67-33 imo
theqerb (10:19:08 PM): on a stage gw wants
theqerb (10:19:10 PM): like fod
theqerb (10:19:13 PM): it'll be more or less
theqerb (10:19:18 PM): but in general ya
theqerb (10:19:24 PM): i was gonna say
theqerb (10:19:26 PM): 70-30
jturner2k6 (10:19:29 PM): kaze I base it on 10 matchups
theqerb (10:19:29 PM): but 67-33
theqerb (10:19:30 PM): sounds better
jturner2k6 (10:19:32 PM): not 100 like everyone else does
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:34 PM): stage wise, i think best of 3 stage wise is fine
theqerb (10:19:42 PM): once fox cp's you
theqerb (10:19:43 PM): it's like
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:45 PM): best of 5 it helps fox more
theqerb (10:19:46 PM): 90-10
theqerb (10:19:56 PM): but when u cp him you get a lil advantage potentially
thecheesiestwiz (10:19:57 PM): i think it's only 65 35 myself
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:07 PM): and your first stage isn't bad for you
theqerb (10:20:13 PM): it isnt that bad for you
theqerb (10:20:14 PM): i agree
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:14 PM): first stage you don't have to playa **** stage ever
jturner2k6 (10:20:20 PM): yeah first stage shouldn't be too bad
jturner2k6 (10:20:22 PM): but you have to win
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:28 PM): yea
jturner2k6 (10:20:29 PM): the first match
jturner2k6 (10:20:32 PM): otherwise the set's over
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:35 PM): you do have to win first match
theqerb (10:20:39 PM): assuming teh fox is legit
jturner2k6 (10:20:43 PM): right
thecheesiestwiz (10:20:45 PM): but that's usually the case anyways isn't it?
theqerb (10:20:49 PM): indeed
theqerb (10:21:02 PM): i guess i'll
theqerb (10:21:04 PM): update
theqerb (10:21:07 PM): the matchup discussion
theqerb (10:21:08 PM): O:
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:11 PM): even with gay characters that's been the case with fox
jturner2k6 (10:21:17 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:21:19 PM): word
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:21 PM): though the new ruleset it's better
jturner2k6 (10:21:27 PM): winning the first match is universally important
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:27 PM): like
jturner2k6 (10:21:31 PM): but it's even moreso with GnW
htheqerb (10:21:35 PM): lol yeah
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:39 PM): he doesn't have floats, cruise, green greens, and corneria anymore
Kirbykaze3038 (10:21:47 PM): just cruise and pokestad
thecheesiestwiz (10:21:49 PM): i think we should have 2 threads for this info, one as a log of our convos so people can read them, the other put the important info into the matchup discussion
theqerb (10:21:52 PM): yeah
thecheesiestwiz (10:21:55 PM): i liked green greens vs fox
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:05 PM): ...
theqerb (10:22:09 PM): i liked corneria vs ice climbers........
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:12 PM): i like green greens in general
theqerb (10:22:12 PM): rofl
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:23 PM): corneria vs ics is significantly less weird
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:24 PM): it's nto GOOD but it wasn't unbeatable
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:34 PM): i disliked green greens in general
Kirbykaze3038 (10:22:40 PM): really random
theqerb (10:22:40 PM): i think it's fun
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:42 PM): just CC all your hits and DI towards teh blocks and punish with fair
theqerb (10:22:42 PM): but not
theqerb (10:22:43 PM): good
theqerb (10:22:44 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:22:50 PM): Am I the only one that thinks Sheik vs. ICs is in Sheik's favor?
jturner2k6 (10:22:56 PM): I must be a scrub
thecheesiestwiz (10:22:56 PM): yes
jturner2k6 (10:22:57 PM):
hKirbykaze3038 (10:23:00 PM): it's possible
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:02 PM): oh wait
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:03 PM): i think it's even
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:06 PM): sheik vs IC's
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:08 PM): or about even
theqerb (10:23:09 PM): says the sheik main haha
jturner2k6 (10:23:11 PM): or atleast it isn't in IC's favor like everyone claims
theqerb (10:23:12 PM): (;
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:14 PM): i thought you said vs G&W haha
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:26 PM): i don't have a particularly solid opinion on that one
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:36 PM): i mostly just copy what fly amanita tells me about sheik vs ics
jturner2k6 (10:23:41 PM): lol
theqerb (10:23:42 PM): good idea
theqerb (10:23:43 PM): lol
jturner2k6 (10:23:46 PM): anyways I think I'm done for the night
theqerb (10:23:50 PM): alrighty
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:50 PM): i've played ics once in tournament
jturner2k6 (10:23:52 PM): thanks for participating guys
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:53 PM): mmk j00t
theqerb (10:23:54 PM): i wanna play now
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:54 PM): and i wound up going peach
Kirbykaze3038 (10:23:57 PM): toodles
thecheesiestwiz (10:23:57 PM): also thanks for your vids vs pika
jturner2k6 (10:24:00 PM): We'll do it next week at the same time?
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:01 PM): they helped me yesterday
theqerb (10:24:02 PM): thanks for running this **** j00t
jturner2k6 (10:24:08 PM): np
jturner2k6 (10:24:10 PM): lol np cactuarz
jturner2k6 (10:24:20 PM): So next Sunday at 8 p.m.
jturner2k6 (10:24:21 PM): be here
jturner2k6 (10:24:24 PM): we're gonna be ****ing up Falco
jturner2k6 (10:24:27 PM):
htheqerb (10:24:28 PM): yessss
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:29 PM): i won't be here =/
theqerb (10:24:29 PM): my fave
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:31 PM): i have work johns
theqerb (10:24:31 PM): D=
jturner2k6 (10:24:33 PM): wattttt
jturner2k6 (10:24:36 PM): >:[
theqerb (10:24:38 PM): we should reschedule
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:44 PM): actually the next 3 weeks i work sunday
jturner2k6 (10:24:49 PM): Saturday then?
thecheesiestwiz (10:24:53 PM): and saturday
theqerb (10:24:56 PM): fine with me
jturner2k6 (10:24:57 PM): ugh
sausabe (10:24:58 PM): :<
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:02 PM): i have only wed/thurs/fri off =/
jturner2k6 (10:25:05 PM): we'll miss you?
jturner2k6 (10:25:05 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:11 PM): save the whole chat for me?
theqerb (10:25:12 PM): we can save the log
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:12 PM): haha
theqerb (10:25:13 PM): for ya
theqerb (10:25:14 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:25:23 PM): im gonna save this one
theqerb (10:25:26 PM): when we're done
jturner2k6 (10:25:26 PM): alright
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:30 PM): mmk ^_^
jturner2k6 (10:25:31 PM): so 70/30 for Fox overall
thecheesiestwiz (10:25:39 PM): i tihnk 65 35 but i won't argue with that
theqerb (10:25:43 PM): yeah
theqerb (10:25:45 PM): around there.
theqerb (10:25:47 PM): we can say.
jturner2k6 (10:25:50 PM): 65/35 doesn't make sense to me
jturner2k6 (10:25:57 PM): you can't win 6 and a half matchups
jturner2k6 (10:26:03 PM): and basing it on a 100 match system is flawed
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:12 PM): you can win 13 out of 20
theqerb (10:26:21 PM): he makes a point
jturner2k6 (10:26:31 PM): >:[
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:34 PM): haha
jturner2k6 (10:26:35 PM): I say 70/30 but w/e
theqerb (10:26:36 PM): rofl
jturner2k6 (10:26:38 PM): it's up to Qerb
theqerb (10:26:46 PM): O:
jturner2k6 (10:26:48 PM): So what'd you think about the Pika GnW thing Cactuarz?
theqerb (10:26:50 PM): im gonna go with 70/30
theqerb (10:26:53 PM): anything less than that
jturner2k6 (10:26:53 PM): good **** qerb
jturner2k6 (10:26:54 PM):
hthecheesiestwiz (10:26:55 PM): 6931 then?
theqerb (10:26:58 PM): we'd get flamed by other boards
thecheesiestwiz (10:26:59 PM): i hate the matchup
sausabe (10:27:00 PM): 70/30 sounds right
theqerb (10:27:03 PM): saying blah blah gw sucks
theqerb (10:27:04 PM): etc.
theqerb (10:27:05 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:06 PM): cause we hae 3 pika mains in this state
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:10 PM): and it's just boring
theqerb (10:27:13 PM): lol
theqerb (10:27:19 PM): i need to record soon
theqerb (10:27:22 PM): i missed apex
theqerb (10:27:27 PM): and it was 30 mins from my house
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:29 PM): i'm going to genesis 2 btw
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:31 PM): and shame
theqerb (10:27:31 PM): >_>
jturner2k6 (10:27:37 PM): I'm starting to think that Pika GnW is in GnW's favor
jturner2k6 (10:27:46 PM): but we have a ways to go until we get to that discussion
thecheesiestwiz (10:27:47 PM): i never lose vs pika
theqerb (10:27:50 PM): i think gw ***** alot of low tiers
theqerb (10:27:55 PM): but yea
theqerb (10:27:59 PM): for next next next time
jturner2k6 (10:28:02 PM):
htheqerb (10:28:03 PM): next next next next....
theqerb (10:28:03 PM): lol
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:09 PM): in fact, after the first month of my playing G&W i never lost against a pika
theqerb (10:28:09 PM): iite i g2g as well
theqerb (10:28:13 PM): gotta get ready
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:14 PM): mmk peace
theqerb (10:28:16 PM): first day of class tmrw
jturner2k6 (10:28:17 PM): aight guys
theqerb (10:28:18 PM): ):
jturner2k6 (10:28:21 PM): thanks for being here
theqerb (10:28:25 PM): indeed
jturner2k6 (10:28:26 PM): see you guys later
theqerb (10:28:32 PM): cya guys
thecheesiestwiz (10:28:33 PM): ftilt beat's pika's recovery
hthecheesiestwiz (10:28:37 PM): see ya
sausabe (10:29:07 PM): bye :[ h
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