What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v8 - New Video!)

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge submitted a new guide:

A Tail to be Told - Intermediate Guide to Fox - Intermediate Guide to Fox Gameplay

Basics
So you want to learn to play Fox, eh? Fox has been in the middle range tier ever since Brawl, and as surprising as it is, Smash 4 had no change. However, Fox used to be top tier in Smash 64 and Melee, and since those are the games I started out playing on, fox will forever be my main.

If you're just coming to this game from the old games, you may be asking why isn't Fox top tier anymore? For starters, all of the "tricks" you could do in Melee...

Read more about this guide...

 

[Likogen]

I liked your guide nice and simple, but I play Fox a lot in Smash 4 which I guess makes me just as qualified as anyone else to say this. Neutral Air is an extremely good move with fox it's good for edge guarding and a simple combo that works at low percents is dash attack to short hop nair, it works best on heavy characters. Nair is also good for approaching and zoning.

Edit: Also first post, am I doing this right?

 

[Postknowledge]

I liked your guide nice and simple, but I play Fox a lot in Smash 4 which I guess makes me just as qualified as anyone else to say this. Neutral Air is an extremely good move with fox it's good for edge guarding and a simple combo that works at low percents is dash attack to short hop nair, it works best on heavy characters. Nair is also good for approaching and zoning.

Edit: Also first post, am I doing this right?

Thanks for your say! I love things like this because I'm limited to how I personally play Fox, while there are still tons of different ways to play him.

 

[EndlessRain]

Edgeguarding with Fox is pretty tough though. It's usually not worth the risk.

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated A Tail to be Told - Intermediate Guide to Fox with a new update entry:

A Tail to be Told - Fox Guide Update v1

(v.1) Hi! In this update, I included Pros/Cons to playing Fox, as well as some other combos. More updates are to come!

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated A Tail to be Told - Intermediate Guide to Fox (v2) with a new update entry:

A Tail to be Told - Update v2

(v2) In this update, I included more combos, a kill moves list, some more mindgames tips, and strategies for different gameplay (offensive, defensive, trap fighting).

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated A Tail to be Told - Intermediate Guide to Fox (v2) with a new update entry:

Fox Guide Update v3

(v3) This update includes descriptions and better organization of the moves list.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v4) with a new update entry:

Update v4

(v4) This update includes 3 new gameplay videos, as well as comments about the overall gameplay and what I did that was good, and what I could've done to do better. Also, I added a few more tips in the mindgames section.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v5) with a new update entry:

Update v5

(v5) This update added a general matchups section.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[stratattackjack]

What is your nnid? I main fox and have come in top 5 at 4 different tournaments. Your guide definitely was a good intro into fox and i may do my own guide the higher level stuff like fair gimps and at what % dair combos into up smash. The real bread and butter of fox is his jab to grab. From there i use "trap" tatics and never let the opponent get to the ground safely by always standing off center of them in the air. Then when they fall i can dash into piviot ftilt or revers grab. I have a lot of vids i'd like to show you as well.
If u use fb you should friend me on there or send me a pm here.

great job woth percents and stuff!

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v5) with a new update entry:

Update v6

(v6) This update includes more added combos, dash attack info and it's uses, and specific matchups for the following groups: Heavy, Counter-Attack Enabled, Faster than Fox, and Floaty Characters.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Edgeguarding with Fox is pretty tough though. It's usually not worth the risk.

Well, it's not easy, but you can turn around and up tilt to cover most recoveries.

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Or you can jump and use back air, forward air, down air, shine (risky, but a good option to catch them off guard if they're close enough), or really any other move of Fox's that can be used in the air. However, I will say that it's REALLY risky to try just about any of these, but they're options nonetheless.

 

[Postknowledge]

If you can get it just right, you can down air after you trump your opponent (if you don't know what trumping is, it's where you purposely grab the edge with the opponent on it so they fall off, and when they grab it the second time they don't have invincibility, allowing for some attacks). If you down air them at the right time, they could essentially be hit into the side of the stage and fly off the opposite direction. I'll make a video of it sometime, and add it here

 

[ZoroarkMI]

If you can get it just right, you can down air after you trump your opponent (if you don't know what trumping is, it's where you purposely grab the edge with the opponent on it so they fall off, and when they grab it the second time they don't have invincibility, allowing for some attacks). If you down air them at the right time, they could essentially be hit into the side of the stage and fly off the opposite direction. I'll make a video of it sometime, and add it here

I didn't even think of that.

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Actually, couldn't you B-air and get the same result?

 

[ZoroarkMI]

I was just watching a set between ZeRo's Fox and Nairo's Robin, and ZeRo was using D-smash to cover the ledge just before Nairo could grab it, so that may be a viable option too, but I probably won't end up using it much, because my C-stick is set to tilts instead of smashes.

 

[Timbers]

I was just watching a set between ZeRo's Fox and Nairo's Robin, and ZeRo was using D-smash to cover the ledge just before Nairo could grab it, so that may be a viable option too, but I probably won't end up using it much, because my C-stick is set to tilts instead of smashes.

Yoo chill with the triple posts please. there's an edit button.

Going offstage is bad news as Fox. bair ledgespike is way too risky oftentimes tbh. there's a ton of endlag and you're forced to recover low using upB, which is one of the easiest recoveries in the game to gimp. even if you do land the stagespike with bair, if they tech then you're probably dead. You're better off staying on stage.

Also why would you not use smashes? Just use joystick + A if you have tilts on C-stick.

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Yoo chill with the triple posts please. there's an edit button.

Going offstage is bad news as Fox. bair ledgespike is way too risky oftentimes tbh. there's a ton of endlag and you're forced to recover low using upB, which is one of the easiest recoveries in the game to gimp. even if you do land the stagespike with bair, if they tech then you're probably dead. You're better off staying on stage.

Also why would you not use smashes? Just use joystick + A if you have tilts on C-stick.

Good point. I just figure it's a little less convenient because I usually play online matches with some friends of mine from another state and it can be tricky to get the timing right on smashes during a lag spike. Oh, and sorry about the constant new posts. I just recently joined the site and didn't see the edit button because I'm using my phone to post.

 

[Timbers]

Good point. I just figure it's a little less convenient because I usually play online matches with some friends of mine from another state and it can be tricky to get the timing right on smashes during a lag spike. Oh, and sorry about the constant new posts. I just recently joined the site and didn't see the edit button because I'm using my phone to post.

You're putting too much thought into it I think, doing smashes with joystick is incredibly easy. If anything, lag screws with c-stick more in online play than anything else. C-stick is just a shortcut to joystick+A, and a lagspike can fail to register one of those two inputs and produce an unwanted result.

Understandable about edit button on your phone, sorry to jump the gun. This site is garbage on mobile.

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Actually, my friends and I have had some terrible connection issues due to bad weather and distance, so the game tends to drop from 60fps to about 3fps. I think that would mess up anyone's timing. And besides, I mess it up sometimes even without lag, so I tend to save them for when I desperately need the KO. I mean, I'll try to get a combo finisher with an Up smash, but end up doing an up tilt, I miss whoever I'm trying to hit, and they get a free punish on me. So I usually use U-air and B-air to get kills and end strings and combos.Although, in the 3DS version, I get the smash off a lot more consistently.

 

[EndlessRain]

Sweetspot nair and rising fair are the main ones I use. I don't leave the stage, just hop up and nair or fair if they're recovering high. I use low-angle ftilts for low recoveries, dsmash if they're at high %.
If they come straight at me (Falco sideB, Fox dittos etc.) I turn around utilt.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Cons:
- Not a lot of kill moves
- Can only KO at high percents

really? Not really that well-versed into Fox (might try and learn him in the near future though) but I faced quite a bunch of them and from what I played, his kill moves include bair, uair, usmash (which is amazing), as well as Fsmash and Dsmash although I guess they're not as good and obviously don't have the same kill power. Those look like plenty of kill moves for me even if you don't include the latter two.

And that last con seems fishy to me because his Usmash got a lot of kill potential and easily kills with rage..

so if anyone can explain those 2 points or tell me if i'm wrong that'd be great :o

 

[Postknowledge]

I could have rephrased it better, and I may edit it, but what I meant when I said he doesn't have many kill moves is that the ones he has are very predictable. The only ones people tend to use with Fox (unless they get their opponent over a good %160) is U-Smash, U-Air and B-Air (though the first 2 are the most common). Considering those as the main kill moves he has, people know what to look for when fighting him. Comparing Fox to other characters, he has really only 3 decent kill moves to rely on, and other characters have quite a bit more, such a Sonic. Most of the tilts with other characters are decent kill moves, as well as some back throws and aerials.

I may end up taking out the last con, which is that he can only KO at high percents, because that's not necessarily true and when I first made the guide I put that in without having much knowledge of other characters attacks as well. Without knowing that, I didn't really have a good "base" percent for what could be considered high or low. However, there are characters like Captain Falcon, Mario, Ness, and lots of others that can KO at percents much lower than what Fox requires to do so. Fox can KO reliably at around %95+ (unless on the exact right or left of the stage and you landed a D-Smash or S-Smash off of the stage, or possibly an U-Air with the opponent being significantly high up in the air), when others can KO a lot sooner, so compared to other characters he has to rack up a bit more damage to KO.

Hope this helps, and thanks for letting me in on something I needed to change in the guide. If I didn't answer your question sufficiently, ask away

 

[yoshi8984]

I am a Ness main, but at times I use Fox (and some other characters) cause he's pretty fun, haha.

One the things I would edit is fast falling being a pro, because it can work in AND against Fox's favor, IMO. He can get back on stage quicker, but it can also makes him a bit easier to juggle and also it makes edgeguarding risky (or rather, non-existent) without SDing. =P
I may be wrong, but I think Fox's fast falling speed allows Mario to do D-Throw > U-Tilt x2 and then D-Throw > U-Tilt x2 and then Up-B for about 45~50%? I also know that Ness can pseudo-chaingrab Fox with D-Throw > Fair (either 2 or 3 times across the stage) depending on how Fox DIs, but if he DIs upward, Ness can often get D-Throw > Fair x2 if done quickly by Ness.

I would also suggest that Illusion should often be used in mid-air as opposed to the ground, because you have much less end lag and it can sort of set up a U-air (4:00~4:05) at certain percents (or bait out a reaction from an opponent).

Speaking of Illusion, while it does make Fox's recovery far better this game, it doesn't change the fact that his recovery is still linear. It's actually quite easy to intercept an Illusion or Fire Fox with say, a Nair (from many characters actually).

U-Throw and B-Throw are situational, but shouldn't be overlooked. It's really just there for the sake of positioning, but it can throw off your foe's DI. It should also be noted that Fox pummels very quickly, so he can sneak in a few of those before actually throwing.

Also - I'd change S-Smash into F-Smash (I assume you meant Side in the former, but Forward Smash is the proper term).

With Peach (she's one of my characters lol), she's actually not too great with handling pressure that comes from a horizontal angle; Fair is slow, while Nair and Bair somewhat lack the range to protect her horizontally. I'd suggest trying to pressure Peach with Nairs and Illusions (but I think you covered that already lol).

If you need help with the Ness MU, I'd be happy to help because going up vs. Fox is my fave MU (seriously, Fox is so damn fun to play against and I get such a rush versing him)! :D

 

[Postknowledge]

Of course you wouldn't fast fall all the time if you see that your opponent is using that against you. However, mixed with short hops it can work well in your favor. Also, fast falling can help with going against Ness too, you can stop those nasty double F-Airs. If your opponent catches on to that, you can mix it up and throw them off guard

 

[Timbers]

Cons:
- Not a lot of kill moves
- Can only KO at high percents

really? Not really that well-versed into Fox (might try and learn him in the near future though) but I faced quite a bunch of them and from what I played, his kill moves include bair, uair, usmash (which is amazing), as well as Fsmash and Dsmash although I guess they're not as good and obviously don't have the same kill power. Those look like plenty of kill moves for me even if you don't include the latter two.

And that last con seems fishy to me because his Usmash got a lot of kill potential and easily kills with rage..

so if anyone can explain those 2 points or tell me if i'm wrong that'd be great :o

he has kill moves, but setting them up can be difficult against any character that has good options against ftilt/nair -> usmash setups (fast aerials to swat Fox's small usmash range away, tech, etc) or jab cancels (2-3 frame aerial moves, fastfall speed, etc). throwing out usmash raw is bad, as the sweetspot on the move is actually really small, and you'll often get the sourspot for trying to punish landings. the high endlag on all of Fox's smashes make it undesirable to throw these out liberally. bair and uair have small hitboxes and on the slow side. their kill power is also nothing to write home about. they're good options to turn to, but you really can't be fishing for them without risking your own safety, and opportunities to finally throw them out may not present themselves until the opponent is in high percents. It is particularly hellish to land either of these moves on characters with good aerial mobility or short in stature. Not having a throw that can put opponents into kill pressure, and kills after 200%+ is AWFUL.

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v6) with a new update entry:

Update v7

(v7) This update includes a lot more characters in the matchup section, as well as a few more tips in the Mindgames section. (Including the Double Jab Infinite )

All of the characters in the matchup section will be finished in the next update! Be ready!

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[EndlessRain]

Regarding kill moves: I actually don't find it that hard to set up kills with Fox. Within a certain percent window, that is. From 90-110-ish percent, you can set up uair with dtilt, utilt (which can itself be lead into with a pivot ftilt), fair, and illusion, bair with utilt, and usmash or dsmash with a double jab cancel.
Miss that window though and you're in trouble. All your setup options send them too far, and you gotta start throwing kill moves out raw. Which is risky to say the least (not to mention the fact that since Fox's throws can't really kill, they'll likely start to shield bloody everything past about 120%).

 

[Postknowledge]

Regarding kill moves: I actually don't find it that hard to set up kills with Fox. Within a certain percent window, that is. From 90-110-ish percent, you can set up uair with dtilt, utilt (which can itself be lead into with a pivot ftilt), fair, and illusion, bair with utilt, and usmash or dsmash with a double jab cancel.
Miss that window though and you're in trouble. All your setup options send them too far, and you gotta start throwing kill moves out raw. Which is risky to say the least (not to mention the fact that since Fox's throws can't really kill, they'll likely start to shield bloody everything past about 120%).

If they start to shield, you can always rush in to a grab, down throw and go into an up air. If they air dodge, bait out the air dodge and go for the attack after that when they're vulnerable.

 

[ZoroarkMI]

If they start to shield, you can always rush in to a grab, down throw and go into an up air. If they air dodge, bait out the air dodge and go for the attack after that when they're vulnerable.

My favorite is baiting an air dodge or counter by charging an up smash. It's technically not a GREAT thing to do, but it's really satisfying to pull off because it gives them a second to realize that they've made a terrible mistake.

 

[Timbers]

If they start to shield, you can always rush in to a grab, down throw and go into an up air. If they air dodge, bait out the air dodge and go for the attack after that when they're vulnerable.

Dthrow on an opponent at 100%+ is gonna send them like the whole length of smashville. you're better off just uthrowing and trying to catch their ledge reset.

 

[Postknowledge]

Dthrow on an opponent at 100%+ is gonna send them like the whole length of smashville. you're better off just uthrowing and trying to catch their ledge reset.

Depends on the DI. Just an option, there's always more than 1 way to get something done

 

[ZoroarkMI]

Depends on the DI. Just an option, there's always more than 1 way to get something done

Well said. Can't tell you how many people I know just use the same tricks over and over again. Like my friend. He plays Robin and every time he's got his back to the ledge, he shield grabs me and B-throws, which is a good move... If he didn't use it every 5 seconds...

 

[Postknowledge]

Postknowledge updated What does the Fox do? - Advanced Guide to Fox (Update v8 - New Video!) with a new update entry:

Update v8 - New Combo + Video

(v8) This update was supposed to be the finishing of the matchup section, but I made a video of a VERY amazing kill combo that all Fox mains should learn. (Note: There is also a video tutorial/gameplay of using it)

It is under Mindgames section as Tip #13. Learn it!

Read the rest of this update entry...