Who to Sub? [Friend's Ivy; Hates Falco]

[ChiePet]

My friend, who plays Ivysaur as his main, hates the awful MU against Falco, and wants to both find a decent alternate as well as understand why that alternate is the right "Vs. Falco" Sub.

More Info: He plays defensively and wants to find both an answer to Falco's '45* Angel of Death' and someone who doesn't stray too far from his playstyle.
He's dabbled in: MK, Squirtle, Marth, Sheik, Yoshi, Olimar, and Wario. All of which decent enough to put in some work behind them and have a decent sub.

Anyone have good advice?

 

[Sixonesix]

I honestly think Ivysaur has one of the better Falco matchups outside of the Melee top tiers and that he should just continue to use Ivysaur. Razor Leaf is good at stopping him from rushing you down, fair is good for spacing just above his laser height, and most importantly Ivy has rock solid edgeguards on Falco at any percent. Leaf covers his side b, sourspot dair covers up b, fair will either knock him far enough away that he can't get back or link to dair. Falco really shouldn't ever be able to get back on stage against Ivysaur. Granted, Falco does still beat up Ivysaur on stage in a way that Ivy can't really match, so she has to change up her gameplan a bit to fight him. Ivysaur's goal is less to combo him than it is to push him to one side of the stage to set up for one of her brilliant edgeguards. As such, against Falco Ivysaur will want to use moves that are generally not great in most other matchups, like low percent bair and dsmash and dash attack (which combos into itself on spacies) as well as throwing Falco to the closest edge rather than up or down.

Spacies are just weird and you can't fight them like you would fight any other character.

 

[ChiePet]

I honestly think Ivysaur has one of the better Falco matchups outside of the Melee top tiers and that he should just continue to use Ivysaur. Razor Leaf is good at stopping him from rushing you down, fair is good for spacing just above his laser height, and most importantly Ivy has rock solid edgeguards on Falco at any percent. Leaf covers his side b, sourspot dair covers up b, fair will either knock him far enough away that he can't get back or link to dair. Falco really shouldn't ever be able to get back on stage against Ivysaur. Granted, Falco does still beat up Ivysaur on stage in a way that Ivy can't really match, so she has to change up her gameplan a bit to fight him. Ivysaur's goal is less to combo him than it is to push him to one side of the stage to set up for one of her brilliant edgeguards. As such, against Falco Ivysaur will want to use moves that are generally not great in most other matchups, like low percent bair and dsmash and dash attack (which combos into itself on spacies) as well as throwing Falco to the closest edge rather than up or down.

Spacies are just weird and you can't fight them like you would fight any other character.

Ahh, this info is very very much appreciated!
Also, to keep topic, if you had to say which character was a good sub into fighting Falco, who? and again, thank you for the info!

 

[Sixonesix]

Probably MK for similar "instantly dies if he slips off stage" shenanigans? idk. Marth works too but most Falcos are all too familiar with how that one goes. You have to realize that for Falco it's less of a question of "who beats him" than it is "who can do stuff in between him beating you up", cause no one beats him and most don't go even with him. If you can say you have a 45-55 matchup against Falco that's considered a good thing.

 

[ChiePet]

Probably MK for similar "instantly dies if he slips off stage" shenanigans? idk. Marth works too but most Falcos are all too familiar with how that one goes. You have to realize that for Falco it's less of a question of "who beats him" than it is "who can do stuff in between him beating you up", cause no one beats him and most don't go even with him. If you can say you have a 45-55 matchup against Falco that's considered a good thing.

Ahh Haa, well MK is up on the higher part of his list of Alts, but much like Ivy, I'm sure MK has to push Falco off the stage, if so how would you suggest going about it like how you listed above for Ivy?

 

[mayami]

power shielding falco lasers seems to help some, but falco players can use that to their advantage as bait to get in. well timed n-air out of shield will send falco down back on the last hit if ivy can find an opening. falco will have the option to pillar her before she gets an opportunity. i've been testing wavedash back out of shield and f-tilt on reaction.

rar b-air is useful while falco's recovering. if he's on stage b-air can be crouch cancelled at high percentages.

razor leaf is always necessary to her, though if it's power shielded or reflected she'll become vulnerable.

full hop f-air over lasers seems pretty good.

landing a d-smash allows ivy to catch a breath and use razorleaf. also can be a useful edge guarding tool against falco.