Why do people grab, when they can smash?

[F5 Plaid Ghost]

It's beyond me why when a Marth whiffs an upb, people grab rather than use a much more powerful move. You're almost gaurenteed an easy smash, rather you take the grab. Why?

Attack decay is the only thing I can think of...

 

[brinboy789]

it can lead to MUCH more things...especially if your marth.

 

[Skink]

Throws combo into other things that probably rack more damage than a single smash attack.

 

[comboking]

end thread

 

[XxBlackxX]

pretty much what those 2 said. grabs lead to combo, smashes generally don't, unless it is a weak smash and they are at low percents.

 

[choknater]

hehe... one thing that can explain this is bad habit from Melee. In Melee you could destroy someone from a single grab. In brawl, you should go for whatever does the most damage. if you can deal heavy damage from a grab, go for it... but if you can deal more with a fully charged smash, do that

or JET HAMMER yayuhzzz

 

[F5 Plaid Ghost]

Well, if you utilize your attack right, you can combo out of a lot of smashes.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Combo? Thats not a combo at all. Thats similar to marth's grabs in melee. The opponent is not in hitstun long enough for a combo but they are in a situation where you can follow up more easily. Which isn't universally true.

 

[F5 Plaid Ghost]

Combo? Thats not a combo at all. Thats similar to marth's grabs in melee. The opponent is not in hitstun long enough for a combo but they are in a situation where you can follow up more easily. Which isn't universally true.

Right, I forgot about the no combos in brawl thing.



Anyway, thanks for the responds. I think I understand now.

 

[PaintedGhost]

Lolwut names.

Anyway, it depends on the situation. if they're at high percent then go for a smash. If they're low - mid, i'd go for a grab. W-w-w-wait! Wtf, it's Brawl how do you miss the ledge?

 

[Sosuke]

Cuz they're not noobs.

Nd Brwal haz da ghey p3rfcT ShlDIng nd da Rertardd moov DJ3neratyon.

 

[CHOMPY]

Grabs can go right through peoples shield. Smash attacks cant even hit the player when the shield is visibly showing.

 

[SirroMinus1]

What has faster frame rate? There not always an opertuinity to smash. Same thing with grabbing though.

 

[Niko_K]

Choknater for the thread.

 

[Commander Pancakes]

grabing others can start combos. doing a smash is just one move that makes them fly off the stage

 

[cj.Shark]

because people can di away and sometimes to catch up u have to run. unless u want to usmash grabbing is generally better than a dash attack. just saying

 

[Fl00d]

yep, what everybody else is saying leads to combos and rack up more damage than a smash.

 

[Skyshroud]

@Topic Leader: Dedede and Falco would like to have a word with you.

 

[Gindler]

I'm used to grabbing because of MK, all my characters have smashes to slow to punish him so it carried over for everyone else.

 

[Hype]

@Topic Leader: Dedede and Falco would like to have a word with you.

Ice Climber would like more than a word.

 

[Sosuke]

Ice Climber would like more than a word.

Ice Climbers would like to have a speech. lolz.

 

[ftl]

With Falco it's percentage-dependent. At low percent, when he can dthrow chaingrab or at least dthrow into gatling combo, grab is pretty strictly the best choice. At higher percent, when dthrow no longer combos into anything, smashes are better.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

1. Because it's potentially safer

2. It can lead into more than just damage, it can help with stage positioning

3. Saving a fresh smash for a kill is always better than just hitting the opponent.

3 reasons off the bat. =/

 

[Nami-Tsuki]

If you're playing as a character with strong throws (like Ness) it's probably be better to grab unless you know for sure a smash attack would insta-kill them.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Um...Because. your opponent's R button will then ruin your entire strategy?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

It depends on your character, your opponent's character, their %, and what they missed with.

Many characters could do more with their grabs than they can with their smashes, especially at low %'s. Ice climbers, DDD, Falco against anyone they can chaingrab, and someone with a grab release combo against Ness, Lucas, or Wario would be better off grabbing their opponent than charging a smash. Or, if I'm at 0% and do something dumb in the middle of the stage, no one can just kill me at that position or %... It might be a better idea to just grab me or do a tilt and follow it up with something, so you can save your smash attack for a % when I'd actually die from it.

Also depends on how dumb the mistake is. Obviously, a missed ftilt is much less punishable than a broken shield. So you might not actually have time to smash attack me if I missed something small. But if the shield breaks, or missed rest, might as well hit with whatever does the most damage. (which for some characters it's still the grab)

 

[mc4]

end thread

i kinda agree, that's a bit of a close minded claim if you don't consider the whole picture, you are just thinking about that particular moment, when the entire match is the big picture. if you are right then why are grabs even in the game? aside from opening up combo possibilities, mind games, your own predictability, mind games and everything else everyone is going to mention, most characters grabs come out faster than smash attacks. it can be much easier to punish a failed attack (shields spot dodges etc) with grabs so sometimes people will grab instead of going for the smash.

 

[K 2]

Due to brawls physics, many characters can chaingrab, which usually starts at 0% and ends around 45-60%, depending on the character.

Grabs go through shields, smashes don't

Grabs are a lot faster than smashes.

 

[Pierce7d]

I've recently observed that grabs have become the 'universal punisher' in the Brawl universe. With the shield being so strong in Brawl, grabbing is a reliable way to get around that, and when players see an opening, usually this will be deal with by a grab, since it can be executed out of a dash, and is generally far more reliable than a dash attack, while not every character has a commonly used Fair or punishing special like Marth does. However, in instances like you described (Marth's Dolphin Slash hits your shield) you are correct in saying that SMASHING is a better option, especially because Usmashes are generally the least used, and can be executed out of a dash. Often times, the opponent doesn't know how much free time they have, and use the universal frame 6 (or so) grab. This is because people don't spend the proper time learning their opponent. The best way to do this is to play the other characters. Being able to feel how soon you can act really shows you where the lag is. Watching your opponent isn't as reliable.You really could punish Marth's Dolphin Slash with a Usmash almost 95% of the time, and if you ask anyone in my crew, I have encouraged this greatly, and they all have MUCH more success doing this than any other options (it also kills Marth's low platform shenigans: land vs. drop through.)

tl;dr version: learn how much lag your opponent has by giving their characters a spin. Then determine the correct method of punishment, instead of the standard grab.

 

[viparagon]

I've recently observed that grabs have become the 'universal punisher' in the Brawl universe. With the shield being so strong in Brawl, grabbing is a reliable way to get around that, and when players see an opening, usually this will be deal with by a grab, since it can be executed out of a dash, and is generally far more reliable than a dash attack, while not every character has a commonly used Fair or punishing special like Marth does. However, in instances like you described (Marth's Dolphin Slash hits your shield) you are correct in saying that SMASHING is a better option, especially because Usmashes are generally the least used, and can be executed out of a dash. Often times, the opponent doesn't know how much free time they have, and use the universal frame 6 (or so) grab. This is because people don't spend the proper time learning their opponent. The best way to do this is to play the other characters. Being able to feel how soon you can act really shows you where the lag is. Watching your opponent isn't as reliable.You really could punish Marth's Dolphin Slash with a Usmash almost 95% of the time, and if you ask anyone in my crew, I have encouraged this greatly, and they all have MUCH more success doing this than any other options (it also kills Marth's low platform shenigans: land vs. drop through.)

tl;dr version: learn how much lag your opponent has by giving their characters a spin. Then determine the correct method of punishment, instead of the standard grab.

yeah, u hit it dead on. i cant believe people are recommending grabbing instead (unless your d3 falco olimar, or ness of course. )a smash attack is almost always bettr

 

[Lord Viper]

If you Smash and they block your Smash attack, you'll be so screwed that you'll just have to take the conter attack. Grabs leeds to combo's and it's easier to rack up damage while you grab someone.

 

[shaSLAM]

hello chaingrabs.
and smashes have lag. and grabs lead to combos.
and you can shield grab... well nevermind you can out of shield smash too.
yeah i dunno.

 

[BentoBox]

yeah, u hit it dead on. i cant believe people are recommending grabbing instead (unless your d3 falco olimar, or ness of course. )a smash attack is almost always bettr

I don't think you got it.

 

[streetracr77]

Grabbing your enemy has more possibilities and outcomes than doing a smash. Smashing is just one attack you can do without getting your opponent in another attack.

 

[Skyflyer]

If you're close when marth whiffs an up b then you have a point. But if they're far away, they're right to grab because in brawl, a 3 year old can shield the exact second they tough the ground.

 

[WITH]

Why does everyone instantly just blurt out, "grabs lead to combos?" Yeah, for SOME characters it can, but for most characters grabs don't lead to true combos and you really have to decide if an up smash or aerial is right for the situation. Move decay would be the main reason to grab as I see it, unless you can chaingrab or they are low enough % for one of the few grab combos to work.

With good DI and air dodging or even attacking back, you can almost always escape a "grab combo" in brawl. Melee had grab combos, brawl really doesn't except for a few (I think someone mentioned that earlier).

But I'm not saying grabbing is the wrong choice...but there's usually not good combos other than throw ---> tilt or quick aerial at low % which a lot of chars don't even have. At high % most can't combo at all out of throws.

 

[Mota]

Better to grab since you can combo after you throw (eg: ZSS Down throw to aerial)

Also doesnt stale your smash moves. You wanna save em for the kill not to rack up damage.

 

[Pierce7d]

For the vast majority of characters, you shouldn't have to worry about staling a kill move. You either have A) plenty of ways to refresh said move
or
B) other good kill moves

Now, there are times (like when your opponent is at 110%) that grabbing is better, because you can pummel a lot, and still get a throw. However, the entire concept that, "a throw can be followed up better" is a really stupid argument. When you smash someone, they either

A) End up OFF STAGE, which is the most advantageous position a player can gain in this game
or
B) End up in the air, and juggle or landing traps are almost every bit as effective as most advantageous positions a character can possess out of a throw.

OBVIOUSLY, there will always be times when grabbing is good too. If you are King D3, then you should probably grab characters you can chain throw whenever you have a good change, plus your bthrow does 16%. If you are Falco, and your opponent is open and at low percents, you want to get in that chain throw to combos. With Marth, fthrow 0 I can fthrow to Fsmash a lot of characters. However, in many, many instances, there are times when your opponent is open, and you opt for a grab, instead of a smash attack, simply because it's the universal option. Some characters don't even have amazing throws, and most times, a follow up out of a grab is predictable, and doesn't always work. In this game, RELIABILITY is important, so when you can land a smash for a reliable 20%, I advise you do so.

 

[Tamoo]

olimars dthrow can easily lead to an usmash, plus smashes are unreliable cos they can di to try and trick you. With grabs, you can chase and always reliably grab, but smashes can be mistimed. There arent that many situations where the opponent is helplessly falling towards you either so its quite a situational area

 

[Pierce7d]

olimars dthrow can easily lead to an usmash, plus smashes are unreliable cos they can di to try and trick you. With grabs, you can chase and always reliably grab, but smashes can be mistimed. There aren't that many situations where the opponent is helplessly falling towards you either so its quite a situational area

Once again I repeat that not ALWAYS is grabbing a bad idea. Some characters have a very awesome grab game. But there are still many more times when your opponent is more open than you know, simply because you aren't aware of the cooldown on all of your opponent's attacks.