Why is Roy High Tier?

[Puff-Man]

Shouldn't he be with Marth and Lucina? He is Marth but better up close. His aerials are worse than Marth's and his recovery is worse but his grab and ground attacks are better. So why?

Edit: His neutral B is also useless unless on broken shields.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Simply put, his tools are better. He's got kill moves all around, kill setups, is a lot faster, and has a lot better combos and conversions off throws than Marcina do. He can also pretty much kill more easily than Marth at times because his sword has 3 hitboxes, 2 of them which are sweetspots and the 3rd is the sourspot (tip), and they're a lot easier to land than Marth's.

In addition, Roy's recovery is actually better because he can angle his up B, meaning his horizontal recovery is better. Roy also has ridiculously good OoS options with Up B and Usmash. Up B having some super armour on startup (forgot the frames exactly but its somewhere around between 4 to frame 12), and Usmash being able to scoop targets up and killing very early.

 

[Puff-Man]

Simply put, his tools are better. He's got kill moves all around, kill setups, is a lot faster, and has a lot better combos and conversions off throws than Marcina do. He can also pretty much kill more easily than Marth at times because his sword has 3 hitboxes, 2 of them which are sweetspots and the 3rd is the sourspot (tip), and they're a lot easier to land than Marth's.

In addition, Roy's recovery is actually better because he can angle his up B, meaning his horizontal recovery is better. Roy also has ridiculously good OoS options with Up B and Usmash. Up B having some super armour on startup (forgot the frames exactly but its somewhere around between 4 to frame 12), and Usmash being able to scoop targets up and killing very early.

Can't Marcina Neutral B for better horizontal recovery? Also there isn't a big speed difference between Roy and Marcina. But I get what you are talking about. I understand now thank you.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can't Marcina Neutral B for better horizontal recovery? Also there isn't a big speed difference between Roy and Marcina. But I get what you are talking about. I understand now thank you.

They can, but it doesn't ledge cancel (they wont grab the ledge by using it) and the boost in momentum is really small if its not fully charged.. and if it takes a while to charge.

Also, Roy's neutral b isn't useless. Can be used for mixups with b reversals and it has extremely little lag so it's pretty damn good. I use it to edgeguard sometimes.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Use Neutral B offstage. I know it looks scary but it's awesome for off stage pressure and easy KO's when they're forced to recover directly. It's got minimal end lag for a reason.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Use Neutral B offstage. I know it looks scary but it's awesome for off stage pressure and easy KO's when they're forced to recover directly. It's got minimal end lag for a reason.

Yeah, that's what I meant by saying I use it to edgeguard. It has like no lag and you can make it back. Great mixup.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Yeah, that's what I meant by saying I use it to edgeguard. It has like no lag and you can make it back. Great mixup.

Ah didn't even realize. It's just a harder version of Ike's Eruption but with practice it's just as deadly. Probably even scarier considering you can kind of chase them off stage with it.

 

[shotgunraptorjesus]

Simply put, his tools are better. He's got kill moves all around, kill setups, is a lot faster, and has a lot better combos and conversions off throws than Marcina do. He can also pretty much kill more easily than Marth at times because his sword has 3 hitboxes, 2 of them which are sweetspots and the 3rd is the sourspot (tip), and they're a lot easier to land than Marth's.

In addition, Roy's recovery is actually better because he can angle his up B, meaning his horizontal recovery is better. Roy also has ridiculously good OoS options with Up B and Usmash. Up B having some super armour on startup (forgot the frames exactly but its somewhere around between 4 to frame 12), and Usmash being able to scoop targets up and killing very early.

So... I agree with most of what you're saying, and I definitely agree that > , but what kill setups does Roy have? I don't think he can actually combo into kill moves, which is I guess offset by Roy having fast kill moves out the ass. I know he has some good airdodge baits but I can't think of any kill combos he has.

 

[ArikadoSD]

So... I agree with most of what you're saying, and I definitely agree that > , but what kill setups does Roy have? I don't think he can actually combo into kill moves, which is I guess offset by Roy having fast kill moves out the ***. I know he has some good airdodge baits but I can't think of any kill combos he has.

jab > fair, jab > up b, up b oos are the best ones that come to mind.

 

[Seraphim.]

Dtilt > Dash attack is also kill setup if your opponent misses the tech.

Roy has lots of kill options but not many actual kill setups, most of your kills with Roy will come off of airdodge/roll reads.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Who said Roy is high tier?

 

[warionumbah2]

He's not even top 3 swordsman in the game nevermind high tier.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Who said Roy is high tier?

He's not even top 3 swordsman in the game nevermind high tier.

way to miss the point guys. not like I agree tho tbh.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Also..lol@Roy killing better then Marth, when Savior-Emperor has hit confirms into tipper f-smash.

 

[Puff-Man]

Who said Roy is high tier?

He is B+ tier according to the August and July tier list. https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3fmxk8/rsmashbros_monthly_voted_tier_list_results_august/

 

[Puff-Man]

Also..lol@Roy killing better then Marth, when Savior-Emperor has hit confirms into tipper f-smash.

Nobody said anything about Roy being able to kill earlier than Marth. It is just that Roy can kill more easily.

 

[Emblem Lord]

fail list is fail and yes someone mentioned Roy had kill set-ups which implied Marth does not. He does. And they are real combos.

 

[ShadowKing]

For me he has a better recovery then marcina and stronger attacks up close

 

[Flukey]

Isn't reddit pretty much like eventhubs tier list? (serious question, i heard a lot of people bashing on reddit on this stuff)

 

[ArikadoSD]

Isn't reddit pretty much like eventhubs tier list? (serious question, i heard a lot of people bashing on reddit on this stuff)

Reddit's tier list is a lot more accurate than eventhubs at least... still not the best however.

 

[shadowdude]

Roy's sour spot up-air and the first hit of ff n-air into the ground true combos into up tilt to ko at around 130% and above,to name one ko set up

 

[Puff-Man]

What about Roy's aerial attacks besides nair they all suck.

 

[ArikadoSD]

What about Roy's aerial attacks besides nair they all suck.

Uair is a pretty good juggling move, and fair and bair are good killing moves. Dair is eh but imo its not bad

i dont think roy has any overly bad moves tbh

 

[Flukey]

Roy-s aerial moves besides N-air aren't magnifecent, but they're not bad, U-air is good for juggling, also a good move to do after F-air in low %, B-air is nice for edge guarding because of all the area it covers

 

[BurstPanther]

I would class Roy mid-tier/highish, just higher then both Marth & Lucina. His lack of approach options severly hurts his placement, but he has a lot of quick almost lagless moves and kill options. Up-tilt kills and covers great space.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Roy has one of the safest most abusable approach options in the game.

Not knowing this how can you say how good he is or is not?

 

[GenG]

Roy's other air moves are not so great... because they are situational and you won't be using them as much. Nair is so good for approaches that the other air moves are naturally balanced out by his falling speed and limited air time. Fair for combos, Bair for combos/finishers, Uair for juggles at ground-level, and you may never see a dair in a good Roy. I think his attack are nicely balanced because he is primarily a ground-based character with really fast and strong killing options, so it encourages you to KO people with usmash/fsmash/upB by mixing them up and reading airdodges.

 

[Perris6]

Nair is love
Nair is Life

 

[Wintermelon43]

He isn't. That's just a common misonception

 

[Perris6]

Personally I think he is high mid if not high tier for the tools listed by various people above. But this is not a reason to not play Roy or even make excuses for/against him.

 

[BurstPanther]

Roy has one of the safest most abusable approach options in the game.

Not knowing this how can you say how good he is or is not?

Yes, against opponents who lack projectiles, i agree. Those with a strong projectile game can wall out Roy

 

[teluoborg]

Roy has one of the safest most abusable approach options in the game.

And that would be Nair ? Nair isn't safe on shield, it's decent at best as an approach option. It's a godlike punisher when coupled to Roy's mobility though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Did you just say something blatantly false?

Plz stop. Nair is perfectly safe on shield when he fast falls. He cannot be punished guaranteed. Now if you roll after the Nair and your opponent GUESSES your roll correctly yeah they can hit you. But thats different then blocking a Falcon Punch from CF and getting a free kill on him.

 

[Perris6]

And that would be Nair ? Nair isn't safe on shield, it's decent at best as an approach option. It's a godlike punisher when coupled to Roy's mobility though.

Fast falling and connecting with the end of Roy's blade is safe on shield, just practice the spacing and you won't be punished.

 

[teluoborg]

You guys have no idea how this game works do you ?

With Nair on shield you have two choices :
1-hit with the sweetspot that deals 8%, with 13 frames of landing lag the move is at best -9 on shield, meanging anyone besides Samus can shield grab you
2-hit with the sourspot that deals 5%, still with 13 frames of landing lag and you get something that's more or less -13 adv on shield, meaning most characters can shield drop and dash grab you

Just because you don't get punished doesn't mean it's safe. Give people time to learn the matchup and drop your bad habits before they catch up.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Um no? Tipper nair when its perfect is -7 on shield. But since its spaced no one is grabbing you.

Its only -13 on his sweetspot hit and you are only getting grabbed by non-tethers if your spacing is so bad that Roy was essentially point blank when he landed because his sweetspots give him decent block pushback.

So...do YOU know how the game works sir?

Yes video games come down to numbers in the end, but frame data is only ONE set of numbers.

Here is the data set I used for his advantage btw

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1666777880

 

[Perris6]

Um no? Tipper nair when its perfect is -7 on shield. But since its spaced no one is grabbing you.

Its only -13 on his sweetspot hit and you are only getting grabbed by non-tethers if your spacing is so bad that Roy was essentially point blank when he landed because his sweetspots give him decent block pushback.

So...do YOU know how the game works sir?

Yes video games come down to numbers in the end, but frame data is only ONE set of numbers.

Here is the data set I used for his advantage btw

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1666777880

Thank you

 

[Flukey]

A tipped N-air is safe on shield, now if you N-air fast fall right in front of them it's another story, still tethers have really slow start up, none will get you as far as my experience goes

 

[teluoborg]

Here is the data set I used for his advantage btw

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1666777880

Welp I didn't know sourspots had less block freeze than sweetspots even though they deal less damage, this is some original feature we have here. My b then, disregard anything I said.

It's worth noting that this guy lists shield drop as 8 frames even though everyone else says 7. Do you have any idea who he is ?

 

[smokebomb12]

Roy has better options then Mars and Lucina. He has better kill power, is fast and has great combo set ups. He kills earlier then Mars because he has to get in close to get the most of his power, and because he has to hit with the base of his blade, He pretty much always gets the sweet spot he needs. He also has good D-throw combos and a good dash attack with a strong counter as well.

His recovery is better then Mars because it can be angled and has super armor. Roy also has pretty good defense, so he can't die early really.

You can forward smash directly after using blazer to trick opponents into dashing directly into a based Fsmash.