Wishful thinking (Gerudo > Forced rising)

[Z1GMA]

The DDD Boards recently got their hands on a new DDD AT:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291214

I'm thinking about Gerudo -> Jab (with forced rising), again.
All Ganons should REALLY try N find some really weird way of moving in on the
opponent after the Gerudo, thus making the Jab's sourspot force them to rise up.

If there is a way, it'd work on fat characters like Bowser, DK, and DDD.
Maybe even more ppl.

... Forced rising on DDD-- Oh, the irony.

Give this DDD-thingy a try first.
When you master it, go try out some similar **** with Ganon.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Wow! Something like that requires extreme timing, but can benefit any character, including Ganondorf. I ought start practicing this technique. :O

 

[Luxor]

A challenge to find a technique that would make Ganon a 0-death machine requiring godly tech skill and manliness?

I accept.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I tell you, this could potentially turn the metagame on its a**, resulting in a revised tier list in record time. Hell, if we're lucky, Ganondorf will finally rise from the bottom of the list (keyword being "lucky")!

 

[Luxor]

K, for this to work, Ganon needs to have an accessible low-knockback attack that he can use within 40 frames of the opponent hitting the ground.

Is sourspot jab the only such attack he has?

 

[Z1GMA]

K, for this to work, Ganon needs to have an accessible low-knockback attack that he can use within 40 frames of the opponent hitting the ground.

Is sourspot jab the only such attack he has?

Yes, the sourspot in his Jab (located near his upper arm/shoulder) has Jab Locking Abilities.

Also, the weak hit of Nair, and Tipman
Both not very practical in this scenario ;\

Try Gerudoing -> Jab someone at one of the buns (...buns?) on the Base Platform at Lylat Cruise, so that they bounce towards you.
The buns moves them in towards your sourspot.

 

[Claire Diviner]

K, for this to work, Ganon needs to have an accessible low-knockback attack that he can use within 40 frames of the opponent hitting the ground.

Is sourspot jab the only such attack he has?

Sadly, that is indeed the case, unless the second hit of his Nair counts, but it would have zero use for what we're aiming for... I think.

 

[DLA]

Has anyone tried completely staling the jab? Maybe the knockback would be low enough to force a getup.

 

[Z1GMA]

Has anyone tried completely staling the jab? Maybe the knockback would be low enough to force a getup.

*Looks at DLA*...
O_o'

I've never thought of that.

Could work if they're at a very low%, combined with a REALLY staled Jab.

 

[SuSa]

If this exists. I'll main Ganon.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The trick is staling the jab. Easy on stages, like Luigi's Mansion or Castle Siege. Otherwise, it may be a bit tricky to stale it on the opponent alone, especially if they know what you're up to and try their best to avoid it. Still, DLA has a hell of an idea that may prove to be valuable.

 

[Luxor]

Could make Ganon a counterpick character on those stages lol. I'll test this all tomorrow after school, as well as true pivot-->sourspot shenanigans and anything that would be AWESOME.

 

[Tonsana]

I just love the hype around this kind of stuff...
If ganon can somewhat force an forced rising, I would go nuts with it on noobs on wifi :D

Good idea z1g, and good thinking DLA! I will also test some of this stuff today!

Also, is WP to slow to hit a forced rising?

 

[DLA]

I just tested every possible followup after completely staling them, and none of them force a getup

Jab seems to be nowhere close to being weak enough to force a getup, even if it's max staled. I guess our only hope lies with janky buffering shenanigans.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Also, is WP to slow to hit a forced rising?

A WP hit causes a forced descent.

 

[Tonsana]

Just what zigma said on the slopes you can gerudo them on the slope and they will bounce towards you so that our Jab hits with its "weak" part and they will get a forced rising on very low % (like 0-7 or something). This works on Casle seigs first part in the midle slope for an example. I feel thats the closest we can get for having a gerudo -> Jab Forced rising...

 

[Z1GMA]

as well as true pivot-->sourspot shenanigans and anything that would be AWESOME.

Ye, go N try out some weird **** N see if you can find anything coo'.
There might be some kind of buffered 5-input-input out there which can make this happen.

Good idea z1g

I've actually been trying to find a way of doing this for over a year, but with no success.
This DDD-thingy provided fresh fruit for thought ;p

I just tested every possible followup after completely staling them, and none of them force a getup

Too bad.
However, I found that staling the Jab makes our Uphill Gerudo -> Jab (with forced rising) work on higher %'s than just 0% - 20%.

With a staled jab, it's possible at even higher %'s.

DLA, you need to throw out impulsive thoughts more often ;d

EDIT: I....... Just thought of something amazing!!
Will try it out and share it if it works.

 

[Tonsana]

Stop the hype Z1g, god ****

 

[Z1GMA]

Stop the hype Z1g, god ****

Hype is good.
It draws ppl, thus making the researh go faster

 

[A2ZOMG]

We should make items part of standard competitive play! Then Ganon will be top tier.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

what about nair?
it probably wont be fast enough, but just in case, buffered dash back, jump+ nair?

 

[DLA]

what about nair?
it probably wont be fast enough, but just in case, buffered dash back, jump+ nair?

I tried this actually. It's not fast enough, but even if it was, the first hit is way too strong to force a getup.

I'm eagerly awaiting Z1g's idea :O

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm eagerly awaiting Z1g's idea :O

Never mind, it didn't work anyway ;{

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

What would happen if we tried that buffer turn around like in that D3 infinite of Snake video? Then buffer a uair out of shorthop fastfall tipman? Could that work?

 

[Z1GMA]

What would happen if we tried that buffer turn around like in that D3 infinite of Snake video? Then buffer a uair out of shorthop fastfall tipman? Could that work?

Tipman takes too long to come out.

I wanna teleport forward + Jab after the Gerudo.

 

[Exalted]

Too bad using the forward sliding after a spotdodge is too slow :/

 

[Claire Diviner]

Tipman takes too long to come out.

I wanna teleport forward + Jab after the Gerudo.

Not to mention that seeing as the opponent's on the ground, you'd need to be close to the ground as well, resulting in unwanted landing lag.

Can this buffer thing be done against a wall at all? I know some stages have walls (albeit temporary) that may be worth testing. But that's an idea I'm merely pulling out of my a**.

 

[Judo777]

what about lie buffering a pivot walk or something?

 

[Luxor]

Buffering some kind of janky dash-->pivot shenanigan-->jab is the only apparent lead atm. I'll test it all tomorrow for sure, really. In all likelihood, it would require legit frame perfection rather than just being able to buffer several inputs in 10 frames.

 

[Z1GMA]

Buffering some kind of janky dash-->pivot shenanigan-->jab is the only apparent lead atm.

Pretty much.
Question is: How D:

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

Does demonic step work out of side b?

 

[Z1GMA]

resulting in unwanted landing lag.
Landing Lag matters not of you force them to rise.
We have hours of time before they rise.
Just saying.

Can this buffer thing be done against a wall at all? I know some stages have walls (albeit temporary) that may be worth testing. But that's an idea I'm merely pulling out of my a**.
What we wanna do, is to make this possible on flat ground without the help of walls.

_______________

 

[Claire Diviner]

@Z1GMA: Hmm. Good point. What about characters that are simply too small? Can we even hit them with moves that forces a rise?

 

[Z1GMA]

- Should work on all characters we have a garantueed Jab on.
Not skinny ppl like Marth, Peach, etc...

 

[Claire Diviner]

- Should work on all characters we have a garantueed Jab on.
Not skinny ppl like Marth, Peach, etc...

I'll test out which characters are vulnerable to our guaranteed jab and come back with the list.

EDIT: So here's a list of them all in series order:

- Luigi
- Bowser
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- Yoshi
- Wario
- Link
- Samus
- Pit
- Ice Climbers
- R.O.B.
- Kirby
- Meta Knight
- King Dedede
- Olimar
- Wolf
- Pikachu
- Ivysaur
- Charizard
- Jigglypuff
- Ike
- Mr. Game & Watch
- Snake

This goes without saying, but any character not listed here can still be struck by the jab if on a slope, like the middle of Castle Siege's tier 1 stage.

 

[Z1GMA]

I'll test out which characters are vulnerable to our guaranteed jab and come back with the list.

EDIT: So here's a list of them all in series order:

- Luigi
- Bowser
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- Yoshi
- Wario
- Link
- Samus
- Pit
- Ice Climbers
- R.O.B.
- Kirby
- Meta Knight
- King Dedede
- Olimar
- Wolf
- Pikachu
- Ivysaur
- Charizard
- Jigglypuff
- Ike
- Mr. Game & Watch
- Snake

This goes without saying, but any character not listed here can still be struck by the jab if on a slope, like the middle of Castle Siege's tier 1 stage.

I think you're missing the point :0

What we seek, is a way to hit ppl with the SOURSPOT of our Jab at FLAT GROUND.

We have a Gerudo Follow-up Chart, ya know ;p

 

[Claire Diviner]

I think you're missing the point :0

What we seek, is a way to hit ppl with the SOURSPOT of our Jab at FLAT GROUND.

We have a Gerudo Follow-up Chart, ya know ;p

Oh. Whoops. Well, wouldn't the sourspot always hit after a Choke anyway, or does the sweetspot always hit? Does it depend on the character's size?

If the sweetspot does always hit, I imagine we could just walk forward before striking, but then I imagine they'd have rolled by that time. This may seem like a losing battle in finding a great way to utilize such an idea, unless there's something about the way it's performed that I'm missing completely. X__x

 

[Exalted]

Press B.
Problem solved.

To be serious though, I too will try and find something.

 

[Z1GMA]

Oh. Whoops. Well, wouldn't the sourspot always hit after a Choke anyway, or does the sweetspot always hit? Does it depend on the character's size?

If the sweetspot does always hit, I imagine we could just walk forward before striking, but then I imagine they'd have rolled by that time. This may seem like a losing battle in finding a great way to utilize such an idea, unless there's something about the way it's performed that I'm missing completely. X__x

Check out the Gerudo Follow-up Chart in Swoops' thread named "How to murer stuff".

From there, you'll get a good view on how important each frame is after we Choke somone :}

 

[Claire Diviner]

Check out the Gerudo Follow-up Chart in Swoops' thread named "How to murer stuff".

From there, you'll get a good view on how important each frame is after we Choke somone :}

Alright, cool. Thanks, Z1G. :D