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Zero Suit Samus' Frame Data - 3.02

KuroganeHammer

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Zero Suit Samus' Frame Data

[intro paragraph.]

[COLLAPSE="Current Requests"]
Request | Requested By | Current Progress
-| |
[/COLLAPSE]
Table of Contents :
( To skip to a section, Ctrl + F and search for its 4-letter code. )
Section 1: Standard Terms [TRMS]
Section 2: Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]
2.1 Ground Moves [GRND]
2.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]
2.3 Specials [SPCL]
2.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]
2.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]
2.6 Item Moves [ITMM]​
Section 3: Sticker & Moveset Attributes [STCK]
Section 4: Credits [CRDT]

Section 1 / Standard Terms [TRMS]

[COLLAPSE="Terms List"]Hitbox Active: Frames during which the attack's hitboxes are active.
FAF (First Actionable Frame): First frame on which you can perform another move. This will be the animation's end or the IASA frame if the move has one.
Base Damage: Base damage values for each hit.
Angle: Angle at which the opponent will be knocked away.
BKB: Base knockback of the move.
KBG: Knockback growth of the move. This number affects how quickly knockback will increase relative to the opponent's damage.
Block Advantage: Ground moves only. Frame difference between Ike's FAF and the opponent's when the move hits the opponent's shield. Counted from first hit frame per damage value. Add +7 to find the normal shield drop advantage.
Landing Lag: Aerials only. Number of frames Ike lags when he hits the ground during the move.
Autocancel: Aerials only. Frames during which Ike can land without the aerial move's landing lag. (He will instead suffer normal jump landing lag.)
Intangibility: Frames during which Ike will take no damage.
[/COLLAPSE]

Section 2 / Frame & Hitbubble Data [FRME]

2.1 Ground Moves [GRND]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg. | Block Adv. Jab 1 | 2-3 | 17 | 2 | -12
Jab 2 | 2-3 | 19 | 2 | -14
Jab 3 | 3-4 | 20 | 3 | -13
Dash Attack | 6-9, 10-15 | 36 | 9, 7 | -23
Ftilt (Up) | 6-8 | 29 | 9 | -16
Ftilt | 6-8 | 29 | 9 | -16
Ftilt (Down) | 9-12 | 31 | 12 | -14
Utilt | 3-5, 7-12 | 39 | 5, 6 | -27
Dtilt | 5-7 | 26 | 6 | -16
Fsmash | 20-21 | - | 14/14/13/13/13/13 | -37
Fsmash (Late Hit) | 22-24, 22-25 | 66 | 12, 8/8/8/8 | -
Usmash (Hit 1) | 7 | - | 4 | -
Usmash (Hits 2-6) | 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19, 21-22 | - | 1 | -
Usmash (Hit 7) | 28-30 | 51 | 3 | -20
Dsmash | 20-24 | 36 | 11 | -4
Grabs | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg. | Notes Standing Grab | 16-29 | 67 | - |
Dash Grab | 16-33 | 73 | - |
Pivot Grab | 11-23 | 79 | - |
Grab Pummel | 2-5 | 25 | 3 |
Throws | Weight Dependant? | Notes Fthrow | No | -
Bthrow | No | -
Uthrow | Yes | -
Dthrow | No | -
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | FAF | {colsp=7} Notes Spotdodge | 2-15 | 23 | |
Forward Roll | 4-15 | 28 | |
Back Roll | 4-19 | 32 | |
Shielddrop | - | 15 | |
Up Taunt | - | 79 | |
Side Taunt | - | 81 | |
Down Taunt | - | 101 | |

2.2 Aerial Moves [AERL]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg. | Landing Lag/L-Cancel | Autocancel | Notes Nair | 6-14 | 34 | 10 | 16/8 | 1-2, 33
Fair (Hit 1) | 6-9 | - | 5 | - | -
Fair (Hit 2) | 16-17, 18-20 | 40 | 10, 7 | 20/10 | 1-5
Bair | 7-11 | 38 | 10/13/13 | 17/8 | 1-3, 31-37
Uair | 4-8, 9-12 | 34 | 10, 7 | 19/9 | 26-33
Dair | 12- | 32 | 12, 6 | 18/9 | 1-3, 29-31
Jump Data | Jump Squat Duration | SH Air Time | FH Air Time | Empty Landing | {colsp=5} Notes
| 4 | 31 | 51 | 4
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | {colsp=8} Notes Airdodge | 4-29 | |

2.3 Specials [SPCL]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg. | Block Adv. | Notes Paralyzer (Uncharged) | 21-54 | 40 | 4 | - | Dash Cancellable Frame 21
Paralyzer (Charged) | 41-94 | 60 | 6 | - | Dash Cancellable Frame 41
Plasma Wire | 6-8, 13-15, 17-19, 21-23 | 40 | 2, 4, 3, 6 | -14 |
Flip Jump | - | 52 | - | - | Links into Attack or Footstool Frame 15
Flip Jump (Attack) | 9-15, 16-33 | - | 13, 10 | - | Jump Cancellable Frame 26
Flip Jump (Attack Landing) | 1-3 | 31 | 4 | -26 |
Flip Jump (Footstool) | 1-2 | - | 2 | - |
Plasma Whip | 24-25, 30-33 | 51 | 3, 9 | -17 |

2.4 Ledge Moves [LDGE]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | Intangibility | FAF | Base Dmg. | Block Adv. | Notes Ledge Attack <100% | 19-21 | 1-18 | 56 | 0/8/8/8 | -31
Ledge Attack >100% | 53-57 | 1-57 | 70 | 0/0/10/10 | -10
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | FAF | {colsp=7} Notes Ledge Grab |
Ledge Climb <100% | 1-30 | 35
Ledge Climb >100% | 1-55 | 60
Ledge Roll <100% | 1-23 | 50
Ledge Roll >100% | 1-66 | 80
Ledge Jump <100% | 1-15 | 16
Ledge Jump >100% | 1-20 | 20

2.5 Tech & Trip Moves [TCHM]

Attacks | Hitbox Active | Intangibility | FAF | Base Dmg. | Block Adv. | Notes Get Up Attack (Back) | 15-17, 27-29 | 1-29 | 50 | 6 | -18
Get Up Attack (Stomach) | 16-18, 28-30 | 1-30 | 50 | 6 | -17
Trip Attack | 18-19, 27-28 | 1-8 | 50 | 5 | -18
Miscellaneous | Intangibility | FAF | {colsp=7} Notes Tech | 1-20 | 27 | Universal.
Tech Roll | 1-20 | 41 | Universal.
Stand (Back & Stomach) | 1-22 | 30 |
Get Up Roll Forward (Back) | 1-22 | 36 |
Get Up Roll Backward (Back) | 1-22 | 36 |
Get Up Roll Forward (Stomach) | 1-22 | 36 |
Get Up Roll Backward (Stomach) | 1-22 | 36 |
Trip | 1-6 | 30 |
Trip Get Up | 1-17 | 22 |
Trip Roll Forward | 1-10 | 29 |
Trip Roll Backward | 1-10 | 29 |

2.6 Item Moves [ITMM]

| Item Thrown On | FAF | Notes Forward Toss (Ground & Air) | 7 | 21
Back Toss (Ground & Air) | 9 | 21 | Reverse Direction Frame 5
Up Toss (Ground & Air) | 11 | 21
Down Toss (Ground & Air) | 7 | 19 | Hitbox does not come out.
Dash Toss | 4 | 35

Section 3 / Sticker & Moveset Attributes [STCK]

Jab 1 - Hand/Normal
Oh Gods, these again...
Jab 2 - Hand/Normal
MY GUN IS ASSAULTING YOU.
Jab 3 - Hand/Normal
MY HIPS ARE ASSAULTING YOU.
Dash Attack - Foot/Normal
Standard dash attack.
Ftilt - Foot/Normal
Because legs.
Utilt - Foot/Normal|Foot/Slash
More legs.
Dtilt - Foot/Normal
ZSS confirmed for Chun-Li.
Fsmash - Whip/Electric
I think this is affected by weapon stickers, but I don't know.
Usmash - Whip/Electric
Not much to say here.
Dsmash - Energy/Paralyze
The paralyze effect is why people get stuck.
Nair - Whip/Electric
Whips are delicious!
Fair - Foot/Normal
The second hit of this attack actually has a late hitbox for whatever reason.
Bair - Foot/Normal
ZSS likes to show people her legs.
Uair - Foot/Slash|Foot/Normal
Used to be really good in Brawl. Still good, but must have been toned down so that it's not the only aerial she uses.
Dair - Foot/Normal
I like how this move can combo into itself.
Pummel - Knee/Normal
ZSS knees the opponent.
Paralyzer (Uncharged) - Energy/Electric
Nerfed.
Paralyzer (Charged) - Energy/Paralyze
Still nerfed, but it goes a bit further.
Plasma Whip - Whip/Electric
All hitboxes are whip & electric.
Plasma Wire - Whip/Normal|Whip/Electic
Launcher uses the Normal effect, but the rest uses Electric.
Flip Jump - Foot/Normal|Slip/Normal
Even the landing hitboxes use Foot/Normal. Only the footstool vs. grounded opponents uses the Slip attribute.

Section 4 / Credits [CRDT]
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Move Properties

Attacks | Shield Damage | Unable to Clank? | SDI Multiplier | Hitlag Multiplier | Trajectory | BKB | KBG | Knocks Forward? Jab 1* | 2 | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 70 | 20 | 100 | -
Jab 2* | 2 | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 70 | 20 | 100 | -
Jab 3 | 3 | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 45 | 100 | -
Dash Attack | 1 | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 50 | 70 | -
Dash Attack (Late Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 25 | 70 | -
Ftilt | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 35 | 18 | 100 | -
Ftilt (Down) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 35 | 18 | 100 | -
Utilt (1st Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 120/120/130/130/80 | 45/45/50/50/45 | 100 | -
Utilt (2nd Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 90 | 50 | 120 | -
Dtilt | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 85/65/75 | 45 | 110 | Y
Fsmash (14%) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 40 | 45 | 96 | -
Fsmash (13%) | - | Y | 1.0x | 0.5x | 40 | 45 | 96/96/100/100 | -
Fsmash (12%) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 30 | 100 | -
Fsmash (8%) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 106 | 128 | 16 | -
Usmash (Hit 1) | - | N | 0.1x | 0.8x | 100 | 100 | 0 | -
Usmash (Hits 2-6) | - | N | 0.5x | 0.75x | 115/135/115/140 | 79/79/25/25 | 0 | -
Usmash (Hit 7) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.5x | 75 | 80 | 133 | -
Dsmash | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 70 | 75 | 20 | -
Nair | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 55/52/50/47 | 40 | 80 | -
Fair (1st Hit)* | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 80/77/75 | 40 | 100 | -
Fair (2nd Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 40 | 45 | 105 | -
Fair (2nd Hit, Late) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 40 | 45 | 90 | -
Bair | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 20/33/33 | 110 | -
Uair | - | N | 1.1x | 1.0x | 60 | 30 | 110 | -
Uair (Late Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 30 | 20 | 100 | -
Dair | - | N | 1.0x | 0.5x | 270/270/90/90 | 70/70/64/64 | 60/60/35/35 | -
Dair (Late Hit) | - | N | 1.0x | 0.5x | 270/270/90/90 | 70/70/35/35 | 45/45/90/90 | -
Pummel* | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 40 | 100 | Y
Paralyzer (Uncharged)* | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 12 | 100 | -
Paralyzer (Charged)* | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 38 | 100 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 1) | - | Y | 0x | 0x | 95 | 120 | 100 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 2) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 90 | 80 | 70/44 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 3) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 270 | 60 | 100 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 4) | - | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 641 | 60 | 45 | -
Flip Jump (Attack) | 5 | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 50 | 88 | Y
Flip Jump (Attack, Late) | 2 | Y | 1.0x | 1.0x | 361 | 35 | 90 | Y
Flip Jump (Landing) | - | N | 1.0x | 1.0x | 100 | 75 | 45 | -
Flip Jump (Footstool vs. Grounded) | 10 | N | 1.0x | 2.0x | 270 | 10 | 0 | -
Flip Jump (Footstool vs. Aerial) | - | N | 1.0x | 2.0x | 270 | 30 | 40 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 1) | - | N | 0.1x/0.05x/0.05x | 0.5x | 20/25/30 | 79/57/39 | 0 | -
Plasma Wire (Hit 2) | 3 | N | 0.65x | 1.95x | 110 | 80 | 50 | -

Anything with an *asterisk* is FIXED knockback​

Special Hitbox Attributes:

Nair: Cannot enter the Stale Move Negation queue.
Forward Smash (13% & 8% Hits): Does not benefit from charge.
Down Smash: Absorbable
Paralyzer: Abosrbable, Reflectable
Plasma Whip: Rehit Rate of 2
Flip Jump (Footstool vs. Grounded): 100% Trip Rate
 
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?.?

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This makes me so happy to see, can't wait until it's all finished.
 

KuroganeHammer

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I don't know how possible it actually is to get gifs of some of the moves like nair, fsmash and up smash.

Also hey here's some interesting stuff, uncharged Paralyzer lasts for 36 frames, while charged Paralyzer lasts for 56.

And ZSS has some very wonky hitboxes, there are some hitboxes on fsmash and usmash that don't benefit from a charge at all. I guess it's because they're technically not part of the fsmash.
 

Sartron

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I don't know how possible it actually is to get gifs of some of the moves like nair, fsmash and up smash.

Also hey here's some interesting stuff, uncharged Paralyzer lasts for 36 frames, while charged Paralyzer lasts for 56.

And ZSS has some very wonky hitboxes, there are some hitboxes on fsmash and usmash that don't benefit from a charge at all. I guess it's because they're technically not part of the fsmash.
It's possible, but the way I'm doing these are more time consuming than how I usually get gifs. Here's an example of a gif with articles (whip) and its hitboxes.

[collapse=See here]
[/collapse]

The view on this particular one looks lame. I hate it when I'm forced to zoom out to get the full view of an animation.

EDIT: Just dropping this edit here for anyone to see that gifs will come in a long time. I'm currently re-polishing my old threads which takes a lot of time considering I do hitbox data for every hitbox ID on each move. Also, I'm working on another frame thread :3
 
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ph00tbag

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For the jabs, would you also be able to get follow-up windows? Like, the times when you can input the next hit, and the earliest it can come out?
 

KuroganeHammer

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@ ph00tbag ph00tbag sure

later though

Hey I've done quite a bit of work today! Frame advance is bugging so I guess I'll stop for now and watch some Digimanz Frontier.

Can someone explain to me wtf down B even is. I don't like it. Actually I don't like what they did to new Zero Suit in Project M.

Why is Fsmash so bad still. Seems like they added some extra hitboxes to it though since Brawl. Then again maybe my memory is just fading...

Also her recovery seems worse than Brawl's. Then again today was the first time I've played around with her so maybe I'm missing something.
 

Phuriate

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Her recovery is definitely better than in Brawl, you can use her down B to change momentum and use it to recover horizontally. Then you can burn your double jump in air and still have access to a tether. For short distances, with good DI you can use down B on it's own to recover.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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See, my problem with this is that her double jump is tiny, down b doesn't seem to be better distance-wise than Brawl's (unless I'm doing this wrong?), she falls REALLY fast, and her tether does most definitely not have as much range as Brawl.

I don't have the hard data to back up my claims, but the only "buff" she got was being able to tether onto a ledge with someone else on there, which... she never really needed in Brawl.
 
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?.?

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Her windup time pre-hitbox is too long. I guess that's to compensate the power behind it though.
Yeah but this is on a character with two stuns, and several low power knockups. I mean.. I've dtilted into a fmash before and gotten a kill, no idea if they could've applied DI to get out but still.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Kill-wise you're still better off just using back air out of paralysis, because 1) it's faster, 2) it does more damage, 3) it also has significantly more knockback (like +14% more KBG).

No "umm wats" plz, the move is absurdly slow, doesn't benefit from charge on almost all of it and is only one of her best KO moves because aside from Bair she has nothing else. The move was bad in Brawl and doesn't seem to have been changed (much) since then, therefore is still bad.
 

indyrenegade

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Yeah but this is on a character with two stuns, and several low power knockups. I mean.. I've dtilted into a fmash before and gotten a kill, no idea if they could've applied DI to get out but still.
That shouldn't combo easily by the sounds of it; a quick player should be able to DI out of the out of the dtilt hit when you're in the middle of your fsmash startup frames.

That said (testing it with bots at the moment for shiggles/curiosity, lols) if they get thrown back by the dtilt, you can sweet spot them with the very end of your fsmash, since them getting knocked back gives the animation time.
At a low percent, it definitely looks like someone could easily hop out of the dtilt and get out of the way of the fsmash before you even get there. I feel like there's better things the dtilt could be combo'd into.
 

ph00tbag

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Kill-wise you're still better off just using back air out of paralysis, because 1) it's faster, 2) it does more damage, 3) it also has significantly more knockback (like +14% more KBG).

No "umm wats" plz, the move is absurdly slow, doesn't benefit from charge on almost all of it and is only one of her best KO moves because aside from Bair she has nothing else. The move was bad in Brawl and doesn't seem to have been changed (much) since then, therefore is still bad.
Bair is technically faster, but what with set-up time, it is as fast at best, because you have to run away to space the sweetspot, jump, reach the peak of the jump, then start the move. It's all during stun, anyway, so it's probably better to just charge it. (Because get this, the sweetspot does benefit from charging.)

Fsmash does more damage with its sweetspot, and equal damage at its sourspot so I have no idea where you get point two. Bair's growth is higher, but it's base is substantially lower, and thus it's total knockback only equals fsmash at 132%, at which point, it's moot because both will KO. Charged sweetspot fsmash has better growth and base than bair, and since you have the time during stun, that's a great time to charge it up.

You might have a point if we're talking about the sourspot, which does 13%, has really low growth, and doesn't benefit from charging, but if nothing else, sourspot fsmash has the most disjointedness of ZSS's normals.

So, again. Ummm wat?
 

?.?

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That shouldn't combo easily by the sounds of it; a quick player should be able to DI out of the out of the dtilt hit when you're in the middle of your fsmash startup frames.

That said (testing it with bots at the moment for shiggles/curiosity, lols) if they get thrown back by the dtilt, you can sweet spot them with the very end of your fsmash, since them getting knocked back gives the animation time.
At a low percent, it definitely looks like someone could easily hop out of the dtilt and get out of the way of the fsmash before you even get there. I feel like there's better things the dtilt could be combo'd into.
I'm aware, friend was just trolling really hard that day and I had to return the favor. I honestly was so confused that it landed, I just threw it out and laughed hard.
 

KuroganeHammer

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@ ph00tbag ph00tbag I think we're arguing something that's pretty subjective, you seem adamant that the move is basically the second coming of Jesus, while I'm pretty convinced so far that the move isn't very good.

Maybe my opinion will change after I finish this data thread.

I don't know if you're just making numbers up or not; I don't recall base knockback ever being that significant in the KB formula.

Am I being ignorant? Probably. Time will tell I guess.
 

?.?

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@ ph00tbag ph00tbag I think we're arguing something that's pretty subjective, you seem adamant that the move is basically the second coming of Jesus, while I'm pretty convinced so far that the move isn't very good.

Maybe my opinion will change after I finish this data thread.

I don't know if you're just making numbers up or not; I don't recall base knockback ever being that significant in the KB formula.

Am I being ignorant? Probably. Time will tell I guess.
It doesn't matter, you're the one doing this thread and I'm pretty sure we all thank you for that.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Oh, I just checked, and parts of the sourspot of fsmash has higher or equal KBG than the sweetspot anyway so...

*shrug*

I'll power through some more of this today guys! :>
 

ph00tbag

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I don't know if you're just making numbers up or not; I don't recall base knockback ever being that significant in the KB formula.
I literally tested all of this by looking at Max Launch Speed after reading your post. And you're right: base knockback isn't significant, but that's how massive the difference in bair and fsmash's bases is; it is so big that fsmash is more powerful up until 132%.

As I recall, @Yeroc specifically informed me, way back in PM's early days, that Fsmash was getting a knockback buff from Brawl. In fact, I believe buffing fsmash was like, item one on the itinerary for adapting ZSS to melee, so I just found your statement to be rather incredible. As an amusing anecdote, he also told me that the reason fsmash had such ****ty range in brawl was because the hitbox went back in literally one frame before the tip of the whip passed through the xy plane. The hitboxes were there; they just weren't relevant.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Really, I tested it on Mario and Bair starts outscaling F-smash at 120%.

Also no, the hitboxes in Brawl were there afaik. I'm trying my hardest to remember... It went 6/9/11/13... The PMBR ADDED two hitboxes!

I know you're probably more inclined to believe a Project M BR member over me, sadly that happens sometimes.

F-smash

12% hitbox starts... frame 22? I think so.

So it replaces the Hitbox ID of... 1. so... Uh.

WAIT NO IT DOESNT

IT... It replaces the sweetspot entirely!

The 12% hit disappears before the 8% hit finishes...

How can I format that better? I bet no one here even knew there was a 12% hit on fsmash

SHIELD ADVANTAGES UP

GOOD HEAVENS DAT DOWN SMASH
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Stopping for a few days, had a car accident like, 30 mins ago.

Legs are cut/bruised etc, chest hurts a bit but otherwise OK.

So please understand. <:
 

ph00tbag

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Really, I tested it on Mario and Bair starts outscaling F-smash at 120%.
Whoops. That's my derp. I tested it on Boozer.

Still, I'd say if you land a dsmash at that percent, I'd say it's better to charge up an fsmash than to go for the bair.

I'm sorry to hear about the accident. Take care of yourself.
 

Oro?!

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I think bair is better in virtually every situation because you can also intentionally flub bair if they are borderline kill %s, and the flub bair will combo into fair.
 

KuroganeHammer

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My body is ready.

So here's an interesting thing, it looks like the PMBR nerfed Zero Suit Samus's ledge attacks, but in doing so they've made her ledge attack hitboxes not match up with the animation.


"It's okay! I'll try to punch them with my elbows!"

Also the PMBR left random 0% hitboxes around the ledge attack files, it seems like they were possibly going to fix it to be less silly as it was in Brawl (ZSS's hitbox ledge attack range in Brawl was kinda silly) but then forgot and has now left her with hitboxes that make no sense.

This will double-up as my documentation for Project M bugs.

You also seem to be able to Flip Jump without touching the ground. Flip Jump -> Flip Jump just before touching the ground. Not sure if it was intentional.
 
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ph00tbag

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Her >100% ledge attack was ******** huge. It was, indeed nerfed to be a tad more sensible.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Still, now it's just as absurd. Needs another hitbox on the hand. I mean, it's a ledge attack, they're not spammable and certainly not good.

(I'mma do some more of this tonight~)
 

KuroganeHammer

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Hitbox data is in the second post!

Just got a few more things to polish up here, like Special Attack hitboxes etc.

Feel free to ask any questions!

Oh also here's something interesting: Apparently when ZSS was released into P:M her nair was meant to be "less of a kill move". But they actually didn't even touch the moves KBG, damage or BKB. I wonder why?

I'm starting to trust the patch notes less and less.

Dair has a grounded and aerial only hitbox. The grounded one is a meteor smash but that's pretty useless. I theorize that the late hit of dair in the air ends up being stronger than the actual strong hit because of the KBG... Eventually. It's too hard to hit though on purpose so it's not really a thing anyway.

I'll be back later to finish.
 

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Wait... do you mean like pikachus Dair in brawl? Meaning that if you do it while landing it's a meteor? Anyways all of this info is wonderful, keep it up you're almost there!
 

KuroganeHammer

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More like Zelda's dair in Brawl. Her sweetspot can't hit grounded opponents. Sometimes hitboxes are coded to say: "Hey I can't hit aerial opponents/grounded opponents".

ANYWAY

Basically doen.

There's some undocumented things like perhaps intangibility somewhere on ZSS's legs during down air, and there's full body intangibility during Flip Jump's Footstool but it's only like 3 frames so not sure if I cbf documenting about it.

Hopefully I haven't missed anything.

Edit: I want to mention that Flip Jump's footstool hitbox is special in that it can't hit most environmental things like items (bombs, crates etc)

QUESTIONS ARE WELCOME FROM BOTH NORMAL MEMBERS AND PROJECT M MEMBERS (I won't judge. Much.)

Edit 2: Also Plasma Wire can hit shields twice on the second hit due to the rehit rate. I think this makes it a decent spacing tool due to it being relatively safe on shield when spaced properly. It has extra shield damage too so I think that's what the PMBR was planning for it to be. But I can't speak for them.

Edit 3:

Before I forget, ZSS had her hurtboxes reduced. The PMBR said it was just her chest but I think they just wanted an excuse to objectify women.



The bigger hurtbox image is Brawl and the other is Project M.
 
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