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The Marth Support Thread - Fire Emblem's First Lord is Confirmed!

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
This thread has a very compelling first post and certainly presents good reasons why Marth might be kept around.

The one thing that makes me skeptical about Marth returning is the order of which the characters are being presented on the dojo. The main characters of a series are shown before the secondary characters. And as the first lord and the star with the most games, I say Marth would be considered the main character of Fire Emblem.

But Ike is revealed first. So I think he is the new face for Fire Emblem, being recent and highly popular. Now Sakurai is not a man known for patterns, but I think this pattern will hold true. It only makes sense to reveal the main character with the revelation of a franchise.

If this theory is true, then Lucas is the new face for Mother and Ness is out.
 

ThoraxeRMG

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
704
Location
Saffron City
This thread has a very compelling first post and certainly presents good reasons why Marth might be kept around.

The one thing that makes me skeptical about Marth returning is the order of which the characters are being presented on the dojo. The main characters of a series are shown before the secondary characters. And as the first lord and the star with the most games, I say Marth would be considered the main character of Fire Emblem.

But Ike is revealed first. So I think he is the new face for Fire Emblem, being recent and highly popular. Now Sakurai is not a man known for patterns, but I think this pattern will hold true. It only makes sense to reveal the main character with the revelation of a franchise.

If this theory is true, then Lucas is the new face for Mother and Ness is out.
I thought all the original Super Smash Brothers fighters will, be in brawl?
Ex: Ness.
 

NukeA6

Smash Master
Joined
May 17, 2002
Messages
3,103
Best Marth thread ever. And yes, I'm a Marth supporter. If Sigurd isn't coming in, then the Prince of Akanea MUST be in the game. And even if Sigurd is in, Marth must still be in Brawl.

Whoever denies Marth's return is biased and without any good reasons. Denying Marth is like saying King Dedede won't be in Brawl.

I thought all the original Super Smash Brothers fighters will, be in brawl?
Ex: Ness.
If Ninten can't be in SSB, neither will Ness.

Lucas is your new Earthbound guy now.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
This thread has a very compelling first post and certainly presents good reasons why Marth might be kept around.

The one thing that makes me skeptical about Marth returning is the order of which the characters are being presented on the dojo. The main characters of a series are shown before the secondary characters. And as the first lord and the star with the most games, I say Marth would be considered the main character of Fire Emblem.

But Ike is revealed first. So I think he is the new face for Fire Emblem, being recent and highly popular. Now Sakurai is not a man known for patterns, but I think this pattern will hold true. It only makes sense to reveal the main character with the revelation of a franchise.

If this theory is true, then Lucas is the new face for Mother and Ness is out.
While a fair point, there are several other likely reasons for Ike to be revealed first.

For starters, theres a pretty plain pattern to how the veterans are being revealed - namely, those who were starter characters in past games are coming before those who were unlockables. At present, we have all 8 of the original starters, plus four who were added to the starting roster in Melee but were not in the original. The remaining characters were either unlockables in the original but not in Melee (Ness, Captain Falcon) or always unlockable (everyone else). Presuming Captain Falcon and (if he wasn't replaced) Ness are next up to be revealed as veterans due to their starter status in Melee, and after that we get into old unlockables, likely starting with the most ridiculously obvious, such as Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf. Thats a lot of veterans until Marth's turn comes around (particularly when you consider that, when Ike was revealed, Peach and the Ice Climbers still hadn't been updated). On the other hand, Ike is a newcomer, and possibly a starter at that, so his revelation first gives Fire Emblem fans a character to look forward to earlier than Marth could have.

In addition, theres two other reasons I can see why Ike would be updated first. The first is that the timing for his update was the best for using it to generate hype - Ike was the first newcomer to be revealed who hadn't been seen in the first trailer, which as I recall generated a lot of excitement (at least on the NSider boards, which is where I was at the time). This wasn't so much due to who he was - many people had to have that explained to them - as due to him being the first new character in so long. Had they waited to update Ike, he wouldn't have generated nearly as much excitement, and if he had been updated after Marth, many non-FE players would be flat-out disappointed by what they perceive as similarities in the two (case in point: the fact that some actually argue that as a reason for Marth to leave). It seems to me they simply chose the optimum time to reveal Ike from that perspective.

The other reason is simply that Ike's games have been international from the start, while Marth's wasn't revealed to be being remade until just recently. Revealing Marth early would please a lot of fans in Japan, but fewer elsewhere, while revealing Ike early appealed to FE fans across the planet.

So yeah, I don't really see that as an issue. There are plenty of logical reasons for Ike's earlier revelation that don't exclude Marth from the game.

Zevox
 

Okysho

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
792
Location
Currently: lost in the realm of Akanea.
Maybe he revealed Ike to create Hyper...as ike is riht now the new face of FE. Maybe sakurai thinks marth can wait a little
Ike is most defiantly not the new face of Fire Emblem, he's still not as popular as Marth. Until anyone can top Marth in popularity, I don't think that anyone else can have to title of "Face of Fire Emblem" but Marth
 

Ashes13

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
22
Add me to the support list. I fully support and expect the return of Marth.
 

Doodx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
497
add me in the support list cuz im starting to hate ike for taking marth and roy out!
 

ElvishSpirit

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
181
I mean really. Whoever thinks Marth is out is plain stupid.

I'll sign it.

O btw, another pro-marth statement is the original moveset theory
 

frankisvital

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
247
Location
Amherst, MA
I'll sign it, too.

I'm very interested in what people see happening to Marth in Brawl. Moveset-wise, I mean. What do you think will be nerfed/buffed/potatoed?
 

raphtmarqui

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
1,912
the only things identifying it as such are the hilt shape and jewel,
OK. That icon looks exactly the same as it does in Melee.
If it was the Falchion in Melee, its the Falchion in Brawl/
the icon, its a bit of a weak argument if you ask me - and it could be argued it would be left that way even if Marth were removed as a homage to the series' origins.
Zevox
First of all I didn't say it should be a commanding argument, but rather something that should be mentioned.
As for it being weak, I dont think so. Your saying that the sword could be important enough to pay homage to the series, but not the actual character? I doubt that would happen.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
I'll sign it, too.

I'm very interested in what people see happening to Marth in Brawl. Moveset-wise, I mean. What do you think will be nerfed/buffed/potatoed?
I am not under the impression that Marth will return.

But if he was going to return, this is what I think will happen.

Aerial Game

The physics of Brawl are different. Most characters are floaty, but have air attacks that are generally quicker and less laggy. Because of this I think Marth can keep his air game without nerfs.

Land Game

This is where I can see the nerfs happening. His forward Smash is too powerful for a combo character. It can hit further then the heavyweight's smashes and has much more range. Plus he has to differentiate himself from Ike, who is the strong swordsman.

His throw, however will probably remain intact so he could start up his air game.

Stats

I say he will have a harder time killing. But with his combos and range he could rack up percentages enough.

Marth might be slightly lighter. But I think this will be balanced out with better recovery options. I bet his Up B will be a combination of Roy's (manuervable to an extent) and Melee Marth's (quick with slight damage and some knockback).
 

Roy-Kun

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
945
3DS FC
2337-4154-9016
I'd like to see Marth to return, and he got his chances, very high I say.

Though, In my oppinion, Marth should lose a bit of his strenght in the smashes... that was an overpowered area he had in Melee.

And yeah, he should be lighter.
 

Deathparasol

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
299
Location
The question is, do you know where you are? HMMM?
Sign me up too!

I'd agree with all of your points, definately Marth should stay, and if by some off chance he should be removed, then I'd say Sakurai has lost his mind. Which I don't think he has, because he gave us a lot of stuff that the fanbase has really wanted so far. So yeah.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
Wow, thats a lot more supporters than I thought we'd get in such a short time. Seems I may even have been underestimating Marth's esteem on this board. Guess its true what they say about how vocal minorities can seem more prominent than they really are.

OK. That icon looks exactly the same as it does in Melee.
If it was the Falchion in Melee, its the Falchion in Brawl/

First of all I didn't say it should be a commanding argument, but rather something that should be mentioned.
As for it being weak, I dont think so. Your saying that the sword could be important enough to pay homage to the series, but not the actual character? I doubt that would happen.
I certainly agree, but the thing is, I could also see the reverse view, where if Marth were taken out for whatever odd reason it may be, they would not want to change the icon for historic purposes. I'll see about adding mention of it in the first post when I have more time though, since its probably at least worth pointing out (not much time atm - school and work are taking up most of it today).

xianfeng said:
Also IIRC Marth and Sheeda were engaged during the second half of FE3.
I just found mention of that over on Serenes Forest myself. Quite cool to hear - I'll add it to that point about his romances. Hopefully FE DS turns out to include the Mystery of the Emblem expansion too, so we can hear all about that (or perhaps if they implement the modern support system Marth could get engaged to either her or other characters in the game... hm...).

frankisvital said:
I'm very interested in what people see happening to Marth in Brawl. Moveset-wise, I mean. What do you think will be nerfed/buffed/potatoed?
Probably nerfed, since he was pretty widely considered too powerful in Melee. Bowserlick has some great points in his analysis - I suspect he will turn out to be at least in part right, if not dead-on. And personally, I think he'll lose some of the power of his sweet spot too - there was a lot of knockback added to his blows if he struck with the tip there (I'm still surprised by just how far that seemingly-weak u-tilt of his can send people if he sweet spots it), which no doubt contributed to his power quite a lot.

Zevox
 

NukeA6

Smash Master
Joined
May 17, 2002
Messages
3,103
LOL

You might as well say that most of the board supports Marth.
 

NukeA6

Smash Master
Joined
May 17, 2002
Messages
3,103
I hope Dancing Blade is easier to use this time. I like that move but couldn't use it effectively when I needed to.

I hope he has a Celice alt and if not, that's still great .
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
I hope Dancing Blade is easier to use this time. I like that move but couldn't use it effectively when I needed to.

I hope he has a Celice alt and if not, that's still great .
I agree with that, definitely. It was disappointing that Dancing Blade could only be really effectively used to help recover in Melee - especially with one of its attacks was designed to be a potential spike. It needs to execute quicker I think, especially the final two attacks.

And I'm kind of hoping for a Roy alt myself. Obviously Roy is unlikely to return, but a little recolor to Marth - red hair, gold lining on his armor, etc - would allow him to be given a nod as well. Of course, perhaps he would be better as an AT, so that he himself actually makes an appearance. Maybe both.

Zevox
 

xianfeng

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
5,107
Location
Canberra, Australia
I just found mention of that over on Serenes Forest myself. Quite cool to hear - I'll add it to that point about his romances. Hopefully FE DS turns out to include the Mystery of the Emblem expansion too, so we can hear all about that (or perhaps if they implement the modern support system Marth could get engaged to either her or other characters in the game... hm...).
Marth/Sheeda should remain canon, forget having him engaged or in a relationship with other couples, him and Sheeda make a great couple.
 
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