A better 'Super Armor List' Thread (4/30, 18:07 EST)

[QuestionMark]

finally. i get it now. thanks alot. i mean it.

 

[MzNetta]

Olimar's Down B should be moved under the confirmed section.
Its the real deal.

 

[MiraiGen]

I've been kicking around fully charged Donkey Punch. I don't have the tools to see the exact specifics on it, but I've ran Jigglypuff's Rollout on it, Pound, Kirby's Fsmash, and Pit's Fsmash. They've all been unflinching.

Is there anyone who can run the stats on this?

EDIT: Just did a fully-charged Donkeypunch against a fully charged Donkeypunch. Still was invulnerable. I'm pretty sure it's from the moment he begins to swing forward (Just after rearing back), ending when his fist stops.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Sonic has SAF's during his Up-B

 

[Ryanarius]

Pit

-Pit's Down+B, the Shield. Confirmed in the video by Ryanarius

I just linked the video somebody else made it.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Great Job Nova. =) I'll move this here for reference as you accidentally left out DK's 3rd SA window.


Donkey Punch Highly Controversial? Y?

...


11-Advanced-




Super Armor-

Let’s discuss Super Armor. DK has three options, and thankfully, the SA windows are at different places, so you have multiple options to be effective. Learn these windows and apply them effectively as an attacking defensive strategy.

-upB (Grounded)- Super Armor frames on start-up, this is the 2nd longest SA window DK has, it's now as effective as Bowser fortress with Invulnerable start-up, the window is the whole entire time his elbow is raised before it's active, BUT, additionally, there is a small window after invulnerability, and before it's active where you can STILL be hit out of the move. This means that upB is very effective against single strike moves (IKE COUGH COUGH) and not multi stuff like most Dsmashes. on ground, the trajectory is enough to be safe on guard but don't expect much horizontal movement, it only has enough. Finally, the grounded version has AMAZING almost instant recovery, while the last hit has the most knockback of the entire move.

-Full Charged Donkey Punch- Super Armor is the Donkey Punch itself, about 15 frames after startup of a full charge DK punch you are in Super Armor state.(Needs confirmation on Frames) It is set-up such that, it will never trade hits. In a trade situation DK will always win. But, you will still be hit OUT of a DonkeyPunch early. Try this, go to Green Greens and DK punch the Bomb blocks. Much fun heheheee

-Cargo carry, he has MASSIVE SA for the initial frames of the opponent on your shoulder.
From a grapple, just press Forward and place opponent upon your back. Vio-ala, Moveable SA frames.


-This makes the IC match much better as you can throw them now.
-This will utilize hazards like Onett. LOL free car damage.
-Improves DK's role in group/team Brawl.
-Pick up snake and walk over his own Grenades/Motion Sensored bombs.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

I just linked the video somebody else made it.

can you give me the link and the name of the person then please?




Agh, and kyle, i keep forgetting that Cargo Carry lol

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Great work Nova. <3

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Dedede's up B has obvious super armor frames. I've gotten them a lot of the time. I think you should take it out of the unconfirmed section. It's not hard to test for it anyway.

 

[3GOD]

That sounds very likely. Are you doing it in vs mode with the timer running? If it's as consistent as it was in Melee you should always be able to tell when one is dropped/added once you familiarize yourself with the timer's counting pattern.

In Melee the clock was always perfectly in tune with the gameplay, but the debug menu's text display (where it states the current frame of what you're doing) can be a little off in normal game speed in that it occasionally will display the same frame number twice (though the gameplay advances one frame), and then skip the next frame on the display to catch up to the gameplay.

As long as the Brawl timer isn't occasionally lazy like the Melee debug display was and always changes with each in-game frame passed it should remove any possible doubt of exactly which frame is being displayed of the move you're looking at.

Yes I'm using the timer, but it's nearly impossible to read the display (especially the 100ths of seconds) in Brawl. At least, when I've captured and deinterlaced, it's very difficult to make out the timer number most of the time. As such, all of my tests will probably only be accurate to +/- one frame.

 

[krlos F.]

I'm sure Lucas has SA while he's doing his Upsmash, not when he is charging the attack, just when he's doing the attack in the first frame! I have no proof but that happened to me, when Lucas was doing Upsmash I was hit with a box and nothig happened! just in the initial frames when he's DOING the attack itself

 

[shadowmm151]

here's some SA for ya. Wolf has SA the moment his reflector comes out. My brother and I tried it out in training against a dragoon! Wolf didn't budge.

 

[Doval]

Lucas has no super armor. You're just clanking his Up-Smash.

If you don't believe me, shoot some of Falco/Wolf's blaster shots at him.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

Lucas has no super armor. You're just clanking his Up-Smash.

If you don't believe me, shoot some of Falco/Wolf's blaster shots at him.

This man speaks ze truth, i tested it just to find some SA.

 

[Doval]

Missed this.

here's some SA for ya. Wolf has SA the moment his reflector comes out. My brother and I tried it out in training against a dragoon! Wolf didn't budge.

That's just invincibility.

I'm really not trying to be an ***, (honest!), but please learn the exact properties of Super Armor and Invincibility before reporting this kind of thing in a way that sounds like you're sure, so there's less stuff to check and everyone will be happier. (Tried to find a nicer way to say that, but can't think of one.)

Super Armor = You TAKE the hit, your character visibly lags from having taken the hit, and you take DAMAGE (the Lucas thing could've easily been dismissed just by knowing that your % has to increase when you take the hit.) Moreover, Super Armor doesn't work against any sort of grab, be it a regular grab, Kirby's Inhale, a Final Smash like Great Aether, or whatever. Invincibility = Attack doesn't touch you at all, character doesn't lag, no damage is taken. It just doesn't connect. Works against grabs too (duh.)

Also, I would like to say that NoVa's Super Armor Theory is wrong (sorry NoVa.) There is no way to "break" a character's Super Armor, ever. If you can, then it wasn't Super Armor (hint: Snake's Cypher and Yoshi's mid-air jump aren't super armor, even if they behave similarly; the confusion is understandable for these two though.) And if you don't believe me about the Snake thing, a simple f-tilt from Kirby will knock Snake out of Cypher at any point even if Snake is at 0%. "Beating" the Cypher doesn't depend on % and it's very peculiar about which attacks will beat it. Most multi-hit attacks, even powerful ones like Fox's up-air (which is two hits) seem to fail. As for Yoshi, we all know you can hit him out of it at high %'s.

I can't quite understand your theory, NoVa, mainly because hit lag/"freeze frames" and Super Armor have nothing to do with each other and both characters receive an equal amount of hit lag anyways, but trust me when I say that Super Armor is absolutely unflinchable. It'll even withstand you-know-who's Off Waves in Intense mode (sorry, don't know how to work the spoiler thing.)

 

[Artisan]

If possible, some testing could be done on Ganondorf's forward air. I believe I ran into super armor while playing against it, but I've only seen it happen once, and I imagine it must be only 1 or 2 frames if it's there at all. I don't think I was mistaken, but I'd never encountered it myself before then.

 

[Doval]

Oh, yes, missed something else. Sonic's Up-B does NOT have Super Armor. It's invincibility. Sonic is invincible from the start of the move until the frame in which he can act/attack (not including that frame.)

 

[NoVaLombardia]

Well, Doval, id rather have more than one person test it, especially magus and 3god, i would love to hear from them.

The reason i came up with that theory, is because i tested it with various attacks against Ike's UP-B. Different attacks worked at higher percents, because they generate more freeze frames. I've gotten knocked out of my SA on the UP-B by Ganon's D-Air (yes its a powerful attack), even before my SA should've ended (before Ike started to rise up to his sword).

 

[Doval]

That's understandable; the opinion of just one person (especially someone as obscure as me, as opposed to more prominent and well-known board members) doesn't carry much weight to disprove something.

Anyways, what bothers me isn't so much the claim that you can be knocked out of Super Armor but the claim that it's based on whether or not the attack's hit lag "runs out" before the Super Armor frames. This just isn't possible because when you hit the person with SAF, both the attacker and the person with SAF receive the same amount of hit lag. Moreover, while the person with SAF is in hit lag, his attack isn't advancing in frames so the Super Armor is still active.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your theory. The wording is kind of strange and I'd be lying if I said I understood what you wrote 100%. Could you elaborate some more or word it differently for me?

Although this kind of derails the previous line of thought, it's not totally irrelevant - you can "lock" a character into Super Armor frames by having a Smart Bomb detonate on the character when he/she/it has SAFs. It's very simple to do with Ike since you can just Aether a Smart Bomb any ways. The Smart Bomb is 100% hit lag (i.e. there are no frames in between all those hits in which you're not in hit lag) so the character will freeze in that frame of the attack until the Smart Bomb dissipates. You can hit the character with ANYTHING that's not a grab during this time and the character won't flinch. You can even outlast Samus's Zero Laser if you time it just right. If you were so inclined, you could lock Ike into the SAFs on Aether with a Smart Bomb, then have a Ganondorf with a Starman d-air him to your heart's content.

The SAF lock works with Halberd's laser too, just fyi.

 

[yeb]

I have to agree that the freeze frame theory doesn't make much sense. I did some tests with Snake's up+B, and he can take all 3 hits of Ike's jab combo at 999%, but he flinches at 0% from Ike's up-tilt. There are also a bunch of projectiles, like ROB's laser, that won't cause Snake to flinch when uncharged or partially charged, but they will make him flinch when fully charged.

The easiest explanation might just be that there are multiple levels of super armor - Snake's up+B seems like it will never flinch from certain hits, and always flinch from others. Yoshi's mid-air jump seems to be even weirder. It's probably worthwhile to test any attack that supposedly has super armor with both a weak hit and a strong one (and maybe at different percents), to see if anything will cause flinching. If you rely on one attack all the time, you may end up with some false positives/negatives.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

I have to agree that the freeze frame theory doesn't make much sense. I did some tests with Snake's up+B, and he can take all 3 hits of Ike's jab combo at 999%, but he flinches at 0% from Ike's up-tilt. There are also a bunch of projectiles, like ROB's laser, that won't cause Snake to flinch when uncharged or partially charged, but they will make him flinch when fully charged.

The easiest explanation might just be that there are multiple levels of super armor - Snake's up+B seems like it will never flinch from certain hits, and always flinch from others. Yoshi's mid-air jump seems to be even weirder. It's probably worthwhile to test any attack that supposedly has super armor with both a weak hit and a strong one (and maybe at different percents), to see if anything will cause flinching. If you rely on one attack all the time, you may end up with some false positives/negatives.

yoshi's 2nd jump worked that way in melee as well

Ike's up-tilt has alot of hit frames, as well as ROB's fully charged laser (not much more than uncharged though).

But i get what ya'll are saying and i took a look at it. My theory sux ballz . Tbqh i just made up one because i kept overhearing people getting knocked out of SAF. Probably they were 1 frame too short (go figure all the claims were of Ike's).

I shall change this immediately, thanks for the insight though Doval. Btw the way i was thinking of were the Shyguys, but your smart bomb example is the same exact thing.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

me and my teammate have this theory that if u get hit from underneath them it breaks the super armor

we've only tested it with snake's upB against kirby's U-Smash, and kirby's UAir, and the result was if kirby's UAir/U-Smash was to hit snake during his SA, it breaks the super armor

test for ur self

and remember, this is just a theory

 

[Dragmire]

unfortunately this isn't true it might just have worked for you because snakes SA frames were finished


what I noticed for another SA warlock punch being SA'ed to projies I'd have to test it but I think it may work

 

[BananaNut]

Sonic has some super armor on his side B (only against projectiles I think) and it lasts until the top of his little 'hop'

 

[Doval]

No problem NoVa, just happy to be of help. By the way, just for future reference:

Different attacks worked at higher percents, because they generate more freeze frames.

Attacks don't increase in hit lag/freeze frames at higher %. Just throwing that out there. Anyways!

me and my teammate have this theory that if u get hit from underneath them it breaks the super armor

we've only tested it with snake's upB against kirby's U-Smash, and kirby's UAir, and the result was if kirby's UAir/U-Smash was to hit snake during his SA, it breaks the super armor

Again, 1) Snake's Cypher is not true Super Armor, 2) you can knock Snake out of the Cypher with weak hits that don't come from below (Kirby's f-tilt or n-air, for example.) I haven't done extensive testing with various characters but as far as I can tell, the Cypher protects Snake against multi-hit attacks regardless of how powerful they are, but very single hit attacks always seem to work regardless of how weak they are. It doesn't depend on % either.

Yoshi's second jump isn't true Super Armor either. Considering Snake and Yoshi are the only cases of Super Armor-like properties that aren't really Super Armor, whereas every other move has the same properties, I wouldn't go making a "different layers of SA" theory yet. Also, NoVa, though for practical purposes it's probably better to leave Snake and Yoshi in the verified SA section, you should definitely clarify that they don't work like the rest.

what I noticed for another SA warlock punch being SA'ed to projies I'd have to test it but I think it may work

]Sonic has some super armor on his side B (only against projectiles I think) and it lasts until the top of his little 'hop'

Um, that's just breaking the projectile with the attack. There's no such thing as projectile-only-Super Armor. And I'd bet my Wii it'll fail against Falco or Wolf's Blasters, which are energy hits and don't clank or interact with other attacks in any way.

Anyways, I don't know if you missed it NoVa but Sonic's Up-B and Wolf's Down-B don't have Super Armor, just invincibility. Sonic has invincibility from the start-up of the move until the earliest frame he can act (not including that frame.) Real easy to test. Wolf's has invincibility from the frame it starts 'til the frame it hits, including the frame it hits. This one may seem tricky to test since Wolf can hit you, but it's still very easy - just go to training at 1/4 Speed and shoot Falco/Wolf's Blaster at him. They'll go right through without damaging him. If you saw my previous comments on this and you're just waiting to test it yourself, disregard.

Also, I see Dedede's Up-B is labeled as "Up+B, until the peak?" To shed a bit more light on this, he doesn't have Super Armor during the start-up of the move (as you've likely noticed, he's got a relatively lengthy animation before he actually starts moving.) Once he's in motion and traveling upwards, he has Super Armor, and he loses it slightly before reaching the peak of the jump.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

Yoshi does not have true super armor on his second jump. You can verify it for yourself by performing the "smart bomb test" (just throw a smart bomb up and have him double jump into it). Yoshi will freeze for a moment then get knocked out of his jump as soon as the bomb stops, edit: scratch that, I managed to get him to go through at zero. It will knock him out at higher percent though

 

[DarkHero9360]

where is ddd's super armor in his taunt? i'm testing it out and have no luck getting it down.

 

[Juggalo]

Take Wolf's Down B off the list. Its even been confirmed by the Dojo that his down B makes him dodge, not to mention been confirmed by numerous people before then.

No SA there.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

my bad, must have skipped over those two when reading.

Updated.


BTW, i would still love to have someone test what would happen if you tested 3GOD's video example with team damage on. My two best testers vanished :<

 

[kingofwaddles]

LMFAO you put ddds taunt in, dude i made that up on a different account, he doesnt have invincibility in his taunt...

i cant believe you put that in

 

[NoVaLombardia]

i coulda sworn i saw a video by someone... i mustve been thinking of something else

besides, with luigi's taunt doing some gay *** knockback, who woulda thought?

ahh i want more frame testers :O

 

[CbGreiga]

Yoshi during the last frames of Egg Lay

 

[Ryanarius]

on the super armor for pits down b I didn't make the vid I just linked it in the original thread. Unfortunately I don't recall who made it.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

dk has aerial SA too, might be invincibility frames though, but the first hit will not get beaten by anything, projectiles included

 

[NoVaLombardia]

we know all this stuff, and thanks Ryan, but until someone speaks up, credit's going to you :D

i miss my frame testers :<

 

[Devenski]

Not sure if this was said, but Squirtle's forward special.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

Not sure if this was said, but Squirtle's forward special.

it was, and its not SA, its just some gay *** clanking thing

 

[heety9]

You spelled "better" wrong, its with one "t" not 2 > n00bettetude x20

 

[manhunter098]

Doesnt Game and Watch's up b have SA frames?

 

[Gindler]

So when it says yoshi's 2nd jump isn't standard SA. what exactly does that mean? what is the difference between non standard and standard SA?