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A n00b's view on advanced moves, tiers, etc.

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
how old are you?

that kind of thinking seems very childish or just really Kurt Vonnegut, but I doubt he was advocating it
oh, you mean the smiley? ah, i let them slip every now and then. i'm 15, i suppose it should be time for me to move on right? actually....nope, let's leave that to my own mind. I'll let it go when i let it go. -shrug-....along with the expressing a physical act through the use of *insert motion here* or -insert-

wow...that wasn't of topic or anything.

fixed-
i thought you said thing. not thinking.


as for what is childish, clarify what you mean first please, then tell me how it is childish, so i can reply with an overtly calm response.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Seems you've deleted what many people have already pointed out as faulty thinking. Here's what's left:

Now onto tiers. I believe they exist, that some characters are better than others, but I don't think they are relevant. What i'm saying is, although I know Mewtwo easily loses to sheik, that doesn't mean mewtwo sucks. I believe that if a player is good enough, any character can be a worthwhile opponent. One example is Taj, who has shown what mewtwo is capable of. Whether he is the best player or not does not matter, it still shows that a low tier character has extreme potential.
Tiers are relevant. The example of Taj/Gimpyfish/Fumi/BUM is more of an exception than the norm, and even then you don't see them winning tournaments nearly as much as Fox/Falco/Marth players. Taj even uses Marth when it comes to most matches against good players. The tier list certainly doesn't dictate what everyone needs to play, but it certainly shows which characters have been the most successful, and for good reason, in recent tournaments.
 

Sandwich

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
507
Location
anywhere
Faustus said:
Now onto tiers. I believe they exist, that some characters are better than others, but I don't think they are relevant. What i'm saying is, although I know Mewtwo easily loses to sheik, that doesn't mean mewtwo sucks. I believe that if a player is good enough, any character can be a worthwhile opponent. One example is Taj, who has shown what mewtwo is capable of. Whether he is the best player or not does not matter, it still shows that a low tier character has extreme potential.
What?
Listen, tiers don exits.
Just kidding. Anyway, I don't believe it's a measuring stick to say who sucks and who doesn't. It's more of a record of which character is more successfull (I know I spelled that wrong), etc. etc. etc.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
What?
Listen, tiers don exits.
Just kidding. Anyway, I don't believe it's a measuring stick to say who sucks and who doesn't. It's more of a record of which character is more successfull (I know I spelled that wrong), etc. etc. etc.
that just seems like it's putting my statement nicely. But whatever.

@ankoku: yeah, i deleted it, but only because I seem to be under more scrutiny with those statements than the actual statements themselves, plus it somehow lead to a tennis discussion.
 

FairSheik

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
177
Location
San Jose, California
oh, you mean the smiley? ah, i let them slip every now and then. i'm 15, i suppose it should be time for me to move on right? actually....nope, let's leave that to my own mind. I'll let it go when i let it go. -shrug-....along with the expressing a physical act through the use of *insert motion here* or -insert-

wow...that wasn't of topic or anything.

fixed-
i thought you said thing. not thinking.


as for what is childish, clarify what you mean first please, then tell me how it is childish, so i can reply with an overtly calm response.
i believe it's childish because why SHOULD people limit themselves for the sake of a player that did not put in the time and effort to try and learn the techniques.

I don't get why you think things should be fair like that. It just seems childish. Only kids complain about games when things aren't fair based on the skill of their opponents.
 

Sandwich

Smash Ace
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Oct 16, 2007
Messages
507
Location
anywhere
FairSheik said:
I don't get why you think things should be fair like that. It just seems childish. Only kids complain about games when things aren't fair based on the skill of their opponents.
There's a boy in the grade above me who tries to yank my controller cord out when I'm winning.

Now I use wavebirds.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
i believe it's childish because why SHOULD people limit themselves for the sake of a player that did not put in the time and effort to try and learn the techniques.

I don't get why you think things should be fair like that. It just seems childish. Only kids complain about games when things aren't fair based on the skill of their opponents.
interesting....now you are only repeating previous statements already addressed, yet masking them as if it were a new original argument. This is like everyday IRL conversations, only without the emotion or proper spelling (though you seem to be alright on that part)

but i digress, this was simply made to state my views, whether fair by your standards or not. I might not have thought things through in the long run, and i except that. mea culpa

for some reason, this is reminding me of the commercial for the first smash bros. game...yet has no relevance to it whatsoever
 

FairSheik

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
177
Location
San Jose, California
how about you try to refute the comment instead of attacking me indirectly? I know they were addressed already, but you asked me a question so I elaborated. Sorry if it's the same opinion as most people on this board.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
how about you try to refute the comment instead of attacking me indirectly? I know they were addressed already, but you asked me a question so I elaborated. Sorry if it's the same opinion as most people on this board.
i'm making an observation and not attacking you or you're opinion. I truthfully see no elaboration in your post than the previous posts. I have no problem with you criticizing me, just do something that hasn't already been answered. All you've done is attributed my psyche to the mentality of a child. If you believe that, fine, but it is not a basis for argument, in my calm objective opinion. It has been accepted by me that I did not think my thoughts through, I have stated this several times now.

On the upside, at least you are actually posting something that provokes thought. Razed could learn a lesson or two from you. Now having posted that statement, I'm sure the relevance of the thread will be brought into question sometime soon.
 

FairSheik

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
177
Location
San Jose, California
Q:as for what is childish, clarify what you mean first please, then tell me how it is childish, so i can reply with an overtly calm response.

A:i believe it's childish because why SHOULD people limit themselves for the sake of a player that did not put in the time and effort to try and learn the techniques.

I don't get why you think things should be fair like that. It just seems childish. Only kids complain about games when things aren't fair based on the skill of their opponents.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
Q:as for what is childish, clarify what you mean first please, then tell me how it is childish, so i can reply with an overtly calm response.

A:i believe it's childish because why SHOULD people limit themselves for the sake of a player that did not put in the time and effort to try and learn the techniques.

I don't get why you think things should be fair like that. It just seems childish. Only kids complain about games when things aren't fair based on the skill of their opponents.
aaaah, so we are both at fault. I prompted you to give the answer, which led to you saying the same comments as earlier posted. For that I apologize. As for time and effort, had i learned of these before last year, i'm sure i would share your mindset, but i didn't and i don't, though I am trying to learn them by putting in the time and effort. Also, I already told everyone, I'm not complaining, thus presenting quite the folly in your diagnosis of my mind.

@ST. : He is treating me civilly XD
 

Razed

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
548
Location
Quebec
people...stop flaming. Like Razed--what did your comment add, besides +1 to your post count.
It added my opinion, just like your post did, Dr Science.. All my reasons for said opinion have already been explained numerous times. A;so, questions end in a question mark.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
Now onto tiers. I believe they exist, that some characters are better than others, but I don't think they are relevant. What i'm saying is, although I know Mewtwo easily loses to sheik, that doesn't mean mewtwo sucks. I believe that if a player is good enough, any character can be a worthwhile opponent. One example is Taj, who has shown what mewtwo is capable of. Whether he is the best player or not does not matter, it still shows that a low tier character has extreme potential.
Seeing as how part of the tier list is derived from a character's performance in tournaments, to one such as yourself who has never been to a tournament, it would make sense that you believe tiers aren't relevant. However, you're wrong.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
Seeing as how part of the tier list is derived from a character's performance in tournaments, to one such as yourself who has never been to a tournament, it would make sense that you believe tiers aren't relevant. However, you're wrong.
i have one reply for you: ok, your point?

no no, i change that, that will only be used against me. What people seem to not understand is that I am not trying to argue with their ideals. I have not said outright that tires don exist, I have actually said that they do, I just don't believe that it should have any bearing no a persons chances to win or not. As skill progresses, so does a characters skill when in the hands of the right user. It isn't definite, which is evidenced by the fact that tiers change yearly. If a character is the best, do they not stay the best?
 

FairSheik

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
177
Location
San Jose, California
once you become proficient at advance techniques you will see how ridiculous (i'm using this word in the least insulting way) your current opinions are

and I was not at fault. I answered your question. It may have had the same essence the other answers had but mines was worded originally.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
once you become proficient at advance techniques you will see how ridiculous (i'm using this word in the least insulting way) your current opinions are

and I was not at fault. I answered your question. It may have had the same essence the other answers had but mines was worded originally.
mines is not a word. unless referring to the plural form of an explosive or a mine. But that has nothing to do with this. You were at fault for posting the same exact argument, even though it has been answered. It doesn't matter how originally worded it is, it is still, indeed, the same argument. And, once i become in proficient techniques, I will see how ridiculous my opinion was, because, as i have now stated (at least on my views of using advanced techniques) that i didn't think it through and it was not fair for me to think about an advanced player lowering there skills to make another person happy. Upon retrospect, I AGREE it was ridiculous. What people seem to be missing is that I have explained this numerous times. However, my argument on tiers still stands.
 

FairSheik

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Messages
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San Jose, California
don't be stupid and attack me for using a word wrong. I don't care. You think you're smart because you caught a grammatical mistake in my post? It's a forum and I really don't care.

I use to think you were just naive. Now I think you're a prick
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
mines is not a word. unless referring to the plural form of an explosive or a mine. But that has nothing to do with this. You were at fault for posting the same exact argument, even though it has been answered. It doesn't matter how originally worded it is, it is still, indeed, the same argument. And, once i become in proficient techniques, I will see how ridiculous my opinion was, because, as i have now stated (at least on my views of using advanced techniques) that i didn't think it through and it was not fair for me to think about an advanced player lowering there skills to make another person happy. Upon retrospect, I AGREE it was ridiculous. What people seem to be missing is that I have explained this numerous times. However, my argument on tiers still stands.
Stop insulting people's grammer! It doesn't make you sound smart, just stuck up. I LIKE TALKING IN CAPS TO SHOW MY ANGER! RAWR! :mad::mad::mad:
 

Razed

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
548
Location
Quebec
don't be stupid and attack me for using a word wrong. I don't care. You think you're smart because you caught a grammatical mistake in my post? It's a forum and I really don't care.

I use to think you were just naive. Now I think you're a prick
How could you not originally think he's a prick? His OP claimed that it is unfair to be more skilled than your opponent, and that a more skilled player should change his game to accommodate for his lack of talent. True, naivety is a big part of it, but it just screams "I'm a self-centered, self-righteous prick!".
Oh well, he confirmed it with his last post, anyway.
 

APEXPIKA

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
4
NE one who plays N64 SSB post here

Apex is my name Pika is the game. A fast little **** he is.
 

megamanexev3

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
271
Location
Vancouver, BC
I'm pretty sure occasionally Mewtwo will beat Sheik. With that guy owning as Donkey Kong, it's kind of shattering to people who base everything off of tiers.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
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Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
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Cbus, Ohio
i have one reply for you: ok, your point?

no no, i change that, that will only be used against me. What people seem to not understand is that I am not trying to argue with their ideals. I have not said outright that tires don exist, I have actually said that they do, I just don't believe that it should have any bearing no a persons chances to win or not. As skill progresses, so does a characters skill when in the hands of the right user. It isn't definite, which is evidenced by the fact that tiers change yearly. If a character is the best, do they not stay the best?
My point was, as you seemed to have missed it, you're not looking at it from the right perspective, so you're naturally drawing the wrong conclusions.

It's just like when Copernicus(think it was someone else...oh well) tried testing the speed of light, but was unable to measure it accurately and ended up concluding it was instantaneous, rather than 3.00 * 10^8 m/s

Tiers change because WE change. WE find new tactics and strategies which make certain characters better in tournament play. Which is what tiers are all about, how well a character performs in tournaments, not how good a character is. And yes, those are two completely different things.

As for "I just don't believe that it should have any bearing no a persons chances to win or not."

Stick two people in a room. Give Person 1 a sword and Person 2 a plastic barbydoll magic princess wand. Who's going to win?

Understand now?
 

megamanexev3

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
271
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Vancouver, BC
My point was, as you seemed to have missed it, you're not looking at it from the right perspective, so you're naturally drawing the wrong conclusions.

It's just like when Copernicus(think it was someone else...oh well) tried testing the speed of light, but was unable to measure it accurately and ended up concluding it was instantaneous, rather than 3.00 * 10^8 m/s

Tiers change because WE change. WE find new tactics and strategies which make certain characters better in tournament play. Which is what tiers are all about, how well a character performs in tournaments, not how good a character is. And yes, those are two completely different things.

As for "I just don't believe that it should have any bearing no a persons chances to win or not."

Stick two people in a room. Give Person 1 a sword and Person 2 a plastic barbydoll magic princess wand. Who's going to win?

Understand now?
Words of wisdom. You bring up a great argument, I agree, tiers do change and they WILL change the the future. It's possible that one day even Mewtwo can be a top tier character.
 

BrandonOwnageking

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
396
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SoCal Sandiego
wow dude firstly, You don't need advance techniques to be good but they come in handy if u want to get better quicker such as L canceling which speeds up ur game. secondly the tier list is just a list of the characters from best to worse WHEN there played to there full potential it just depends on who is playing the character and what character there playing a list.

Oh i hate items there annoying.
 

Megavitamins

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
2,418
Location
Flaming Europe.
I think this guy gets it, lets just lket this thread die.. Btw dude... your averaging 50 posts per day.. justy 2 days ago u were in the 10s -.-
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
My point was, as you seemed to have missed it, you're not looking at it from the right perspective, so you're naturally drawing the wrong conclusions.

It's just like when Copernicus(think it was someone else...oh well) tried testing the speed of light, but was unable to measure it accurately and ended up concluding it was instantaneous, rather than 3.00 * 10^8 m/s

Tiers change because WE change. WE find new tactics and strategies which make certain characters better in tournament play. Which is what tiers are all about, how well a character performs in tournaments, not how good a character is. And yes, those are two completely different things.

As for "I just don't believe that it should have any bearing no a persons chances to win or not."

Stick two people in a room. Give Person 1 a sword and Person 2 a plastic barbydoll magic princess wand. Who's going to win?

Understand now?
THAT is what i'm looking for. thank you, you have shown me a nice example on tiers, and pointed out a difference. Thank you. As to fairsheik, I apologize for a simple correction of a grammatical error, I was on all day due to proofreading a paper I needed to right(not write) , so I was on edge. Normally I wouldn't care. But yes, despite my post contradicting this, let the thread die, let bygones be bygones, and anon was right, at least for some, while others (dots) present a good argument without coming off as harsh.

Don't call me a child. It makes me want to cry. 0.o
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
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Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
How could you not originally think he's a prick? His OP claimed that it is unfair to be more skilled than your opponent, and that a more skilled player should change his game to accommodate for his lack of talent. True, naivety is a big part of it, but it just screams "I'm a self-centered, self-righteous prick!".
Oh well, he confirmed it with his last post, anyway.
jesus tap dancing christ, I say again and again, but you dont seem to get the whole realization thing. Have I not mentioned at least 3 times now that I was wrong in my argument?
 

Razed

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
548
Location
Quebec
jesus tap dancing christ, I say again and again, but you dont seem to get the whole realization thing. Have I not mentioned at least 3 times now that I was wrong in my argument?
Only after you were spoon-fed the reasons why by multiple people, and still, after you heard said reasons and acknowledged them...
well of course its a silly notion, but one i stand by for the most part nonetheless.
you still stood by them. Thus, you are a naive prick who is stupidly stubborn.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
Only after you were spoon-fed the reasons why by multiple people, and still, after you heard said reasons and acknowledged them...

you still stood by them. Thus, you are a naive prick who is stupidly stubborn.
So, call me a naive prick, it doesn't change the fact that I changed my thinking on the subject matter, nor does it change the fact that you still fail to realize this, thereby making yourself quite the officious prick, and an unintentional troll. Sorry for voicing views on a game, realizing i was wrong, changing my thoughts, and continue to argue with a person who for the most part seems to have no concept as to my nature as a human being based on my opinion on a video game, which, once again, have been changed, thanks to a new perspective offered by other people, not people who posted the same content over and over again, or tried to troll me. I'm sorry, but you seem to fall into the second category.
 

Razed

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
548
Location
Quebec
So, call me a naive prick, it doesn't change the fact that I changed my thinking on the subject matter, nor does it change the fact that you still fail to realize this, thereby making yourself quite the officious prick, and an unintentional troll.
well of course its a silly notion, but one i stand by for the most part nonetheless.
Good job. After acknowledging our views, you explain that you still stand by yours anyway.
"I have heard your arguments, and I stand by my opinion."
"Now that I'm being pegged for doing so, I wish you all to instantly forget my previous assertion!"
Sorry for voicing views on a game, realizing i was wrong, changing my thoughts, and continue to argue with a person who for the most part seems to have no concept as to my nature as a human being based on my opinion on a video game, which, once again, have been changed, thanks to a new perspective offered by other people, not people who posted the same content over and over again, or tried to troll me. I'm sorry, but you seem to fall into the second category.
Actually, your nature as a human being stood out pretty clearly when you told us that you expected more skilled players to change their game to accommodate your lack of skill. After being spoon-fed the reason why your belief makes no sense, you then both stand by your original opinion as well as change your original opinion "on the subject matter" (ignoring the fact that saying "subject matter" instead of "topic" was redundant). Once again, congratulations for continuing to contradict yourself over a number of posts that I don't particularly feel like counting.
 

Faustus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Corneria, fourth panet of the Lylat System
Good job. After acknowledging our views, you explain that you still stand by yours anyway.
"I have heard your arguments, and I stand by my opinion."
"Now that I'm being pegged for doing so, I wish you all to instantly forget my previous assertion!"


Actually, your nature as a human being stood out pretty clearly when you told us that you expected more skilled players to change their game to accommodate your lack of skill. After being spoon-fed the reason why your belief makes no sense, you then both stand by your original opinion as well as change your original opinion "on the subject matter" (ignoring the fact that saying "subject matter" instead of "topic" was redundant). Once again, congratulations for continuing to contradict yourself over a number of posts that I don't particularly feel like counting.
in yet you fail to notice that I changed my opinion after that statement, Not for being pegged, but for truly believing that i had not thought it through. The rules in the first place were not based on my lack of skill, but rather complaints from my friends whenever fighting them. I believed them and lowered my skill when fighting them, and still pulled a victory. However, once again, I did change my opinion. The quote of mine you seem to love so much is now invalid because of this. It is not my skill lacking that got me to this, I wasn't even whining, if i'm beaten in a match, it is because the other player is better than me, not because he/she is cheap, lucky, etc. But really, I appreciate your rather pathetic attempts to make me break, as no one would go this far to say I am wrong in changing my opinion based on my own faulty logic. All the others seem to have accepted that, yes I was spoon fed, yes I changed my mind, they get that. why don't you? Their are only two possible answers:

1. you are the dumbest person to have ever existed (which I DOUBT)
2. you find this entertaining.

let the thread die, blab to your friends all your little lies about catching me in a whole, as i am still calm, with a changed opinion, one that no less agrees with yours at this point.

good day to you sir, don't forget your keyblade on the way out.
 
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