All Advance Techniques are glitches!

[SEXY]

Now that i got your attention, how many of us have heard that line before?

I for one, hear it from every person who plays any smash title, that is not into the big smash community but wants in, the average "scrub", or people who just deam it unfair (because they secretly cant do them).

when i played the smash titles, i personally had no opinion, negative or positive about them. my thoughts were this simpler: "If u can do them, u can do them. if they help u, then they can help you"

but after being taught how to do all those wonderful things, i have become very bias to say, that you need to know how to do them if you want to get anywhere in the compeitive scene.

But now, i can show someone the use of wave dashing and L-canceling. And convince them that how on right time they can be used to give you the upper edge (most people seem to think your suppose to use them every second of the whole match and not when they can come useful).

But even then, i still get told "But they are glitches." and i cant fully explain to someone, why they are not glitches. now, my point of this thread is this, how would you go about to explain to someone in technical terms, how/why an advance tech is not a glitch?
(Please keep in mind that i tried to find a topic already posted dealing with this subject but umm i cant find it. and if u know me then u would understand, i sometimes miss the obvious X_X)

ill give u an example, heres how i explain wave-dashing (classic topic imo)

When you air dodge onto a surface, you recover with a slide.(which varys on character and distance) and thats normal, the game deva put it in there as a solution to what should happen. it could have been air dodge + surface = air dodge turning into ground dodge lasting for X amount of time depending on how long u were air dodgeing for and yah simple solution: recover and slide.

now, u can air dodge into any direction, so, with a short hop and a fast fall and air dodge in any angle, u can air dodge onto the surface under u and slide around that way.

thats the best i can put it, i mean, when u break it down and point out its just short hopping with fast falling and explaing how air dodging works, it sounds pretty solid.

and then i get the question: "How come u cant wave dash in brawl" in which the simple answer is, bc Air dodging is not longer directional so u cant control it, you can wave land(as far as i know this is true???), but its not as well in ur control as it was before.

but yeah, some things dont need explianations, like Fast Falling, Short Hop, Teching, and Grabbing/Up-Smash/Up-B out of shield.

but as i said, how would u go about to explain to someone why the advance tech are not glitches?

:-3

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, you pretty much got wavedashing down, as for L-canceling

Just explain to them that L-canceling is a modified form of Z-canceling, which was an advance tech explained to us on the original website for SSB64.

What else do people acuse of being glitches? It's mainly just those two and yet people seem to auto label all advance techs glitches, when I can't think of even 3 glitches that are considered advance techs (I know there's superwavedashing, and the yoyo glitch, but I really can't think of another tournament viable glitch).

 

[NoVaLombardia]

Link's super jump

Ylink's too

 

[SEXY]

Well, you pretty much got wavedashing down, as for L-canceling

Just explain to them that L-canceling is a modified form of Z-canceling, which was an advance tech explained to us on the original website for SSB64.

What else do people acuse of being glitches? It's mainly just those two and yet people seem to auto label all advance techs glitches, when I can't think of even 3 glitches that are considered advance techs (I know there's superwavedashing, and the yoyo glitch, but I really can't think of another tournament viable glitch).

Z-canceling was explained on the SSB64 website??? well then it would seem the deva's put L-canceling back in in Melee fully aware of it. so then i guess that can say that is not a glitch but intentiouly placed it.

as for what else im not sure. what ever else seems 'iffy' or generally how else would u explain wave dashing.

Link's super jump

Ylink's too

i think thats a glitch glitch though(i wouldnt know). not a technique mistaken for a glitch.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Stickied.

Too Good. *sigh* I hope this can convince people to stop being ignorant and accept that "wavedashing exists... Shut up."

lol ima try using your idea and adding some scientific sounding terms to make it somewhat more believable. (not really)

 

[trademark0013]

freeze glitch


also, i;d try to explain to them that these advanced techs are useful. if they dont wanna listen, i jus beat them senselessly. if they john, i jus say "u cant beat me, deal with it"

 

[shadydentist]

The correct answer to the statement that "______ is a glitch" is:

It doesn't matter, its in the game. The only techniques that have ever been banned are those that cause your opponent to lose control of their characters.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

In an interview, Sakurai actually stated that the dev team found wavedashing and knew how to do it, so you can tell your friends that Sakurai said WD isn't a glitch.

 

[baheffron]

Neither wavedashing or L-cancelling are truly glitches. They are simply more efficient ways of moving/attacking. Things like link's infinite jump and the black hole are what I would consider "glitches".

The people that call them glitches are the people that can't use them and for some reason refuse to learn them, and they get angry with the people who beat them from using these techniques.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Link's super jump

Ylink's too

Those were tournament legal? They were taken out of later versions of the game too (just like Flame Canceling, but that could've easily been left in.) Oh well.

 

[Fugue]

The correct reply is, "what does it matter?"
To quote myself in another thread:
I don't get what the big deal is about regarding whether or not a developer wanted something in a game, and I'm a programmer myself.

Jump Installs were originally a glitch in the Guilty Gear X engine, but they were so popular and useful Arc System Works added them to the GGXX series as actual move properties.

And wanna guess what the first thing to pop into my mind is whenever someone says, "That's the way Sakurai wanted it?"

"Design is law."

Plenty of great things came out of 'mistakes,' and plenty of epic failures went 100% according to their (flawed) design plan. It's not an argument.

And later:
Wow, I can't believe I forgot about Combos.
Yes, people, combos, now nearly synonymous with the term "Fighter," were originally an unintentional glitch.

It's not (or at least, shouldn't be) about whether or not it was intended. It's about whether or not it improves the gameplay. Wavedashing and L-Cancel made quite a few otherwise unplayable characters in high-level Melee combat viable, and didn't do much to make the top tiers any more broken than they already were.

 

[trademark0013]

flame canceling was obviously broken

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Now that i got your attention, how many of us have heard that line before?

I for one, hear it from every person who plays any smash title, that is not into the big smash community but wants in, the average "scrub", or people who just deam it unfair (because they secretly cant do them).

when i played the smash titles, i personally had no opinion, negative or positive about them. my thoughts were this simpler: "If u can do them, u can do them. if they help u, then they can help you"

but after being taught how to do all those wonderful things, i have become very bias to say, that you need to know how to do them if you want to get anywhere in the compeitive scene.

But now, i can show someone the use of wave dashing and L-canceling. And convince them that how on right time they can be used to give you the upper edge (most people seem to think your suppose to use them every second of the whole match and not when they can come useful).

But even then, i still get told "But they are glitches." and i cant fully explain to someone, why they are not glitches. now, my point of this thread is this, how would you go about to explain to someone in technical terms, how/why an advance tech is not a glitch?
(Please keep in mind that i tried to find a topic already posted dealing with this subject but umm i cant find it. and if u know me then u would understand, i sometimes miss the obvious X_X)

ill give u an example, heres how i explain wave-dashing (classic topic imo)

When you air dodge onto a surface, you recover with a slide.(which varys on character and distance) and thats normal, the game deva put it in there as a solution to what should happen. it could have been air dodge + surface = air dodge turning into ground dodge lasting for X amount of time depending on how long u were air dodgeing for and yah simple solution: recover and slide.

now, u can air dodge into any direction, so, with a short hop and a fast fall and air dodge in any angle, u can air dodge onto the surface under u and slide around that way.

thats the best i can put it, i mean, when u break it down and point out its just short hopping with fast falling and explaing how air dodging works, it sounds pretty solid.

and then i get the question: "How come u cant wave dash in brawl" in which the simple answer is, bc Air dodging is not longer directional so u cant control it, you can wave land(as far as i know this is true???), but its not as well in ur control as it was before.

but yeah, some things dont need explianations, like Fast Falling, Short Hop, Teching, and Grabbing/Up-Smash/Up-B out of shield.

but as i said, how would u go about to explain to someone why the advance tech are not glitches?

:-3

QQ moar nub

 

[Pink Reaper]

QQ moar nub

You didn't actually read the post did you. You just read the title, quoted the first post, assumed you knew what it was about and responded.

 

[giantimi]

To Witchking_of_Angmar, do you have a link to that interview where Sakurai said that?

 

[antimatter]

To Witchking_of_Angmar, do you have a link to that interview where Sakurai said that?

get the new nintendo power with Final Fantasy IV for DS on the cover.

 

[Pseudoshot]

OBJECTION! LEADING
Anyway... adv techs are just to manipulate game mechanics. Just as fair as camping. Just as fair as edgehogging (why my friend says it's dishonorable i don't know. I think Final smashes are the MOST DISHONORABLE way to kill your opponent.)

 

[SEXY]

In an interview, Sakurai actually stated that the dev team found wavedashing and knew how to do it, so you can tell your friends that Sakurai said WD isn't a glitch.

Thats incrediably strong umm evidence/statemet(idk the right word) right there. do u know where this interview was or from where it was said? like a magzine title at least? (EGM? GamePro? GameInformer?)

QQ moar nub

Thanks for not reading the post. please do try next time? :-) Thanks Pink Reaper for backing me there.

OBJECTION! LEADING
Anyway... adv techs are just to manipulate game mechanics. Just as fair as camping. Just as fair as edgehogging (why my friend says it's dishonorable i don't know. I think Final smashes are the MOST DISHONORABLE way to kill your opponent.)

i get the same thing from people, from what ive seen its just people who refuse to think of ways around an obsticle, and prefer simple solution.

 

[killer tofu]

Tell them that computers l-cancel and that a form of l cancel existed in 64 known as Z canceling.

Wavelanding was an intentional part of the game, because the direction you wanna air dodge in replaces your upwards momentum you are then able to waveland right after you try to jump (wavedash). So it's simply using the game mechanices to your advantage.

DI was always meant to be part of the game so that you can influence your trajectory from being hit and give yourself a better chance to survive.

Pivots are hardly anything that would be called a glitch. It's simply because there is one frame in dashdancing where you are standing neutrally from wehre you can do anything.

 

[SEXY]

Tell them that computers l-cancel and that a form of l cancel existed in 64 known as Z canceling.

Wavelanding was an intentional part of the game, because the direction you wanna air dodge in replaces your upwards momentum you are then able to waveland right after you try to jump (wavedash). So it's simply using the game mechanices to your advantage.

DI was always meant to be part of the game so that you can influence your trajectory from being hit and give yourself a better chance to survive.

Pivots are hardly anything that would be called a glitch. It's simply because there is one frame in dashdancing where you are standing neutrally from wehre you can do anything.

DO computers l-cancel? i never noticed that. also they could use that to say "Why doesnt the computer wave dash."

whch i could imgine can be countered with "well the computer walks into all ur f-smash so...."

 

[Patinator]

You didn't actually read the post did you. You just read the title, quoted the first post, assumed you knew what it was about and responded.

...That's Everlasting Yayuhzz for you... -_-; Tsk, tsk...

Anyway, the interview that Sakurai said he knew of Wavedashing was in the most recent Nintendo Power.

I don't know why using a non-harmful glitch would be bad, though lol.

 

[2.72]

I don't know why using a non-harmful glitch would be bad, though lol.

That's the most intelligent thing I've read all day. Who cares if it's a glitch?

For the record, Sakurai knowing that wavedashing was in the game means little in regards to it being a glitch. It's not that unusual to publish software with a known glitch.

 

[Patinator]

That's the most intelligent thing I've read all day. Who cares if it's a glitch?

For the record, Sakurai knowing that wavedashing was in the game means little in regards to it being a glitch. It's not that unusual to publish software with a known glitch.

I suppose that's true, but at least it shows it's either intended or Sakurai doesn't care. He also said that he knew about how competitive players play.

And thanks.

 

[Pink Reaper]

For the record, I've seen computers wavedash on multiple occasions. Never on purpose as a form of movement, but rather, as a result of air dodging against a slanted surface(i.e, the exact way the game is supposed to work) I've even been wave smashed by a DK. I was playing on Peach's Castle and I was recovering as Marth and the DK attempted to air dodge as I Up B'd and hit the slant and ended up wave dashing. Then, as most comps do, it decided to kill me with an Fsmash. So yeah, I got wavesmashed by a CPU -_-

 

[trademark0013]

Everlasting, that was the hardest fail i've seen in a long time

 

[SEXY]

Found some interesting info:

"Sakurai mentioned that they knew about wavedashing during the developmental stages of "Super Smash Bros. Melee."

Full Article: http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/Get-Y...ashing-took-it-out-to-even-the-playing-field/

another one but its a forum thingie not an article:

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-42315742&pid=928518

thats all i got at the moment. seems it was an intential thing put in melee, or kept, they was removed for brawl to make the game more 'friendly' to all players who want to be good.

Everlasting, that was the hardest fail i've seen in a long time

what does 'QQ moar nub" mean exactly? i know the moar and nub part but whats QQ? X_X

 

[giantimi]

Did wavedashing really make the game unfair? I really don't think wavedashing broke the game ( with the exception of fox and falco ).

 

[SEXY]

^i dont think wave dashing broke the game. i hear this and that of people who can wave dash and do it in a significant amount get beat in friendlys or what nots by people who cant do them.

 

[trademark0013]

QQ is a symbol for crying

 

[Pink Reaper]

That article has to be a fake. Sakurai has explicitly stated that he didn't know about Wavedashing until high level Japanese players showed it to him, years after the game came out.

 

[OrlanduEX]

IF this article about wave dashing is true, then Sakurai is a f***ing loser.

 

[trademark0013]

Sakurai is a scrub

 

[Winston]

I find it very hard to believe that article about them knowing about wavedashing.

 

[2.72]

Although I don't remember my source, I heard this a while ago. As I heard it, a playtester discovered it fairly soon before they were ready to go gold, and they decided not to fix it due to time constraints (maybe they were worried about introducing new bugs without much time to fix them).

I have no idea how reliable that is, though.

 

[SEXY]

well reading a lot of smashboards i come to a conclusion that Sakurai likes to troll the world. so whether that article is fake or not (maybe he changed his mind on what to say suddenly or something) it still leads to me finding more articles from diff sources to see what he says there.

 

[puckgood]

If there's a glitch in a game, I think you should exploit it. Everyone has the ability to do that glitch (unless it controls somebody else's character, which is different) so it really comes down to skill. Who cares if they call it a glitch? A glitch is basically an advanced technique that the designers didn't mean to put in there. If they argue, beat the crap out of them using "glitches"

 

[trademark0013]

an advanced technique isnt the definition of a glitch...

 

[Brookman]

Honor is for noobs *wavesmashes your face off*

 

[Oskurito]

Every glitch in everygame is usually exploited unless it's to unfair (like being invincible or killing people in 1 shot etc.). For example I used to play gunz online a lot, I learned how to do butterfly wich is a glitch in the game that cancels your aerial lag landing when shorthop > swordslash and plus it covers you from bullets and swords at the same time and lets you execute infinite combos if you're enough fast, and those are just a few uses. Advanced techs, glitches those things can make the game even more fun or completely break it to boredom routines.

 

[puckgood]

an advanced technique isnt the definition of a glitch...

Well, it depends on the glitch. If the glitch is something completely unfair (invincibility, kill in one hit) then I agree with you completely. Maybe I should have phrased what I meant more carefully; many "glitches" take skill to do, and anyone can do them. If wavedashing /was/ a
glitch, that would not change the fact that it is an advanced technique. You're right, I did phrase that incorrectly.