Anti-Camping Strategies based on Specific Character Match-Ups (please contribute!)

[ssbbFICTION]

Anyone got any good advice for a Toon Link facing a Lucario that just runs away and charges his aura sphere?

I palyed some kid on the internet and everytime he got past 100%, he ran to the other edge of the stage and started charging his aura sphere. Rushing him like a madman puts me in a bad spot, and if i spam projectiles, he basically just dodges around while charging his aura sphere. I pretty much just had to get in his face and risk getting hit with the aura sphere everytime.

I had this problem one night while playing my friend back when I mained toon link. His aura sphere cant go through bombs, and it can't go through your shield. If you walk at him slowly as an approach, and suddenly stop moving altogether, his sphere will be neutralized upon impact with your shield. Knowing the campiness they are performing, they will try to get out of your way by rolling/dodging across the stage. Own them with your priority!

 

[Aqueus]

How are you going to play mindgames with a Toon Link that spams arrows, uses an up-turned boomerang if you approach, or throws bombs if you begin reflecting his arrows, i.e. doesn't use mindgames?

Air dodge the 'Rang into a Standard A combo/Tilt, but not smash. He'll have just finished throwing the boomerang, so you'll have a few frames all to yourself, make the most of them, try a grab, though I've never tried, again, I main Lucas, his grab isn't so swift.

 

[JNS]

I hate spammy games and I hope to one day crush Pit's spammy playstyle.
I've decided to not main as Pit, but get good with his spammability... that way I can actually know how to crush his spammyness.

However, I have to note that reflectors will not stop a good Pit spammer. All you have to do is time the "bend" of the arrows so that you hit the opposing character with the arrow going slightly downwards. When the arrow is reflected, it hits the ground.

The concept is most easily done with Snake's Missile. When the missile is reflected, it's vertical velocity remains the same, while its horizontal velocity is inverted. This means if the missile is traveling north-east when it hits a reflector, it will be traveling north-west when it bounces back.

Apply the same principle to Pit's arrows and Pit has no worries about reflected arrows.

good explanation on the deflectors i hadn't noticed that

although the deflectors still protect you , while avoiding the drain of your shield and allowing you to get closer

 

[Pythag]

One thing that I've noticed that has helped me reduce campers is the shield push.
I main DK, and therefore have no projectile, but the way I love to approach is through air, which is unfortunately easy to punish in this game as shield grabbing is insane.
I've learned though that it's a great approach to attack from the air, expecting the shield and distancing myself enough so that I push their character and stay out of their grab range. (I love it against DDD) then if the grab or whatever, the playing field is level. If it doesn't work, try again and hopefully you can eventually push them off the stage, where you are then in a position of power.

 

[bivunit94]

i play as dedede. against space animals or anyone with straight-moving, spammable projectiles, keep at least one waddle dee between you and them. always. instant block. and your opponent's gotta come out eventually.

 

[SunriseW12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ekzsEuwIM&feature=related

I just think that if more people use less gay characters that dont use horrid amounts of projectiles, things will be better. I know the video doesnt really prove anything, but I just think that it shows that campy characters arent completely invincible, and that the game can be slightly more uptempo than what everyone is preaching it will be.

I think brawl will still be playable on a competitive level, but it will just be much more predicting and faking than anything. You wont be able to rely on what little tech skill there is in brawl to save you.

 

[Aqueus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ekzsEuwIM&feature=related

This. Pretty true. But back on topic: Lucas and Ness suffer very little from campy characters. TL in particular is easy to counter if he tries to do nothing but camp. Stick to the ground and perform an FSmash when he tosses the Boomerang and you'll find that he can't use it for a long time (three throw animations if performed consecutively), arrows are still a problem, but Lucas has a sweet FAir for destroying most any projectile. Air dodging forward is also a very valid option so long as you don't get in too close. Once you force him to use his sword, take a swing with some NAirs for Lucas and FAirs for Ness.

Wolf... anyone got any counter strategies for him? When I play Lucas against him, I suffer from a campy game of shots, SH-Lasers and when I finally get close he beats me in close quarters...

 

[Fabrian]

This. Pretty true. But back on topic: Lucas and Ness suffer very little from campy characters. TL in particular is easy to counter if he tries to do nothing but camp. Stick to the ground and perform an FSmash when he tosses the Boomerang and you'll find that he can't use it for a long time (three throw animations if performed consecutively), arrows are still a problem, but Lucas has a sweet FAir for destroying most any projectile. Air dodging forward is also a very valid option so long as you don't get in too close. Once you force him to use his sword, take a swing with some NAirs for Lucas and FAirs for Ness.

Wolf... anyone got any counter strategies for him? When I play Lucas against him, I suffer from a campy game of shots, SH-Lasers and when I finally get close he beats me in close quarters...

I have trouble believe people still have trouble with campers XD...

 

[bayonettrials]

uhh brawl, melee pikachu dedede wtf

 

[Fabrian]

This. Pretty true. But back on topic: Lucas and Ness suffer very little from campy characters. TL in particular is easy to counter if he tries to do nothing but camp. Stick to the ground and perform an FSmash when he tosses the Boomerang and you'll find that he can't use it for a long time (three throw animations if performed consecutively), arrows are still a problem, but Lucas has a sweet FAir for destroying most any projectile. Air dodging forward is also a very valid option so long as you don't get in too close. Once you force him to use his sword, take a swing with some NAirs for Lucas and FAirs for Ness.

Wolf... anyone got any counter strategies for him? When I play Lucas against him, I suffer from a campy game of shots, SH-Lasers and when I finally get close he beats me in close quarters...

I have trouble believing people still have trouble with campers XD...
oh dam sry double post ...

 

[WastingPenguins]

I played B.rawl with some guys I'd never played with today. One of them played R.obb, one of them L.ucario. They projectile camped like crazy and played SUPER defensively, especially the R.ob. It's sad how effective these strategies are in this game. The problem with campers is that even when you do dodge all of their projectiles and break through their defense... you're not going to punish them much because you just CANNOT combo in this game. Airdodging in this game is ****ing stupid. You can do it almost IMMEDIATELY any t.ime you are popped in the air. If you think you can combo out of the air in this game then your opponents just aren't playing defensively.

The problem isn't that I could never beat this strategy-- the problem is that it's ****ing boring as all hell to play against. God is it boring. It's just a bunch of little pokes, every t.ime you get a throw or a tilt in that might combo they're just airdodging and DI'ing away as quick as they can to "set up camp" again. And don't even get me started on how stupidly good shields are in this game.

Tonight seriously opened my eyes. B.rawl can be fun in friendly matches but competitively it is boring trash. The defensive game is just too effective.

If every move had twice the hitstun that it does this game would be great. L.ucario vs. my D.onkey Kong, L.ucario is at low percent. I pop him in the air with a utilt... and DIRECTLY out of that he dairs me in the face, before I would even have the CHANCE to shield if I wanted. But that's just dumb-- if I land a move that pops my opponent into the air, I shouldn't have to immediately scramble to the defense. Ugh.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

snip

Welcome to the noob stage of every other competitive fighter. Enjoy your not-stay.

 

[-Mars-]

Thank GOd for this thread, hopefully this will turn into something big and all of us will be able to come up with a solution to camping and be able to eliminate it from the game.

 

[AznHalfCaucasian]

Ahh.....Have so many stories about camping....

*roasting on a open fire*

*Starting a story* Once upon a time......blah...blah....blah...

-if you catch my drift

 

[Eaode]

Just a note for Falco:

Squirtle can crawl under all of his projectiles. The lasers won't hit him, the shine won't either. So you can just crawl towards him while he's spamming. When you get close enough, you don't even have to uncrouch, you can just use a Dtilt, which has good range, multiple hits, okay power, and can't be sheild grabbedat all (I think he's too short, but either way he lunges forward and then comes back so you should avoid a grab anyway.

This might also work with Snake, but I haven't tested it

 

[Yuna]

In Brawl, the only real strategy to counter camping is to simply out-camp them. Yes, you heard me. Be the better camper. That or play as one of 5 characters with good approaches and pressure. Otherwise, you'll get camped.

Sure, if you play a character with quasi-good approaches and pressure, you might get a few hits in here and there or you might be able to pressure a bit/approach a bit. But smart campers won't spam mindlessly. Once they've left a hole big enough for you to approach, they'll shield it and then you'll be back to having to retreat for safety or eat a punish of your own.

And then they'll camp again. Or they just runaway camp (Toon Link, anyone?). Camping is the new Brawl lifestyle.

 

[Eaode]

In Brawl, the only real strategy to counter camping is to simply out-camp them. Yes, you heard me. Be the better camper. That or play as one of 5 characters with good approaches and pressure. Otherwise, you'll get camped.

Sure, if you play a character with quasi-good approaches and pressure, you might get a few hits in here and there or you might be able to pressure a bit/approach a bit. But smart campers won't spam mindlessly. Once they've left a hole big enough for you to approach, they'll shield it and then you'll be back to having to retreat for safety or eat a punish of your own.

And then they'll camp again. Or they just runaway camp (Toon Link, anyone?). Camping is the new Brawl lifestyle.

This thread is for character specific techniques to counter-camp and approach. Not for further pessimistic declaration of what we already know.

 

[Yuna]

This thread is for character specific techniques to counter-camp and approach. Not for further pessimistic declaration of what we already know.

And we haven't really uncovered that many anti-campings strats (especially not any that actually counter camping, as opposed to just helping you against camping). Gee... I wonder why.

 

[Tristan_win]

A strategy I've recent develop against banana happy Diddy Kong is when he just finishes throwing out a fresh pair of bananas I run and just wait on the edge (mostly by tether recovery because it's safer and you can't get hit by Diddy kong dash attack.)

Diddy Kong bananas have a very short shelf life so waiting on the ledge is a good way to avoid damage and weaken his camping game.

 

[DiasFlac]

I'm glad my brothers don't play campy. I only have to deal with it whenever I go online. I'd hate to see what its like in a few months.

 

[Nakamaru]

Honestly there isnt a single character i can think of that can deal with proper falco laser spam. Its too good of a projectile, and thats just half of the problem. If you do find a way to get in close he just shines you away and repeats the process. There was a video in the falco forums about properly timing his lasers so they hit kirby, yea you could crouch underneath, but what is preventing the falco from just jumping over you?

Pit's arrows are another hugely gay projectile because of how frigin fast they are. You spam a few, then when they get close they just f.B, and that move is so fast as well that you pretty much have to roll way before they even think about doing it, and even then sometimes you'll still get caught by it. Sure he isnt as bad as T.link or Falco, but it is still very hard to get around. Not to mention he also has anti spam.

T.link as well has great projectile game and any smart player isnt going to just toss **** out there left and right as fast as they can. They are going to shoot a few arrows, while you're far away, once you get closer they will throw in the boomerang which makes SH over arrows pretty stupid looking, then if you get past his boomerang he'll probably have a bomb waiting for you, and after all that frustration to finally get in close no matter if you are a space animal or frigin bowser. Then you have to deal with that ****ing sword of his.

Out of the three listed here i dont think any character has any really good approach or answer to any of it. You could go through the frustration, but with the lack of hit stun after you get 40% from projectiles to nab a grab or a lucky smash for 12-20% they can just go right back to spamming their **** at you. so thats probably another 40% tacked on and another 12-20% for them again. So already you are at 80-40 max, and its been about a minute and a half of gameplay. The only real way to get around the massive spammage is heavy brawl it seems. The reason they are so good is because half of the time the character is spent recovering from throwing something is time you spend hovering in the air from getting hit by it.

Spamming is just too good in brawl and i dont foresee any AT in the future of normal brawl to counteract it. It takes very little skill, and has an extremely high pay off. We have to find a new way to take it out or brawl will die quickly. Every tournament will have nothing but Robs, T.links, Pits, snakes (lulz), and MKs which will get really boring really quick. Other character will be seen, but with no chance of winning.

Wow thats alot longer than i expected it to be. Sorry i rambled a little to much. D:

 

[3747373796432]

Has anyone tried using ROBs UpB to hover a bit above spammed projectiles? I haven't tested it but I think it should comspensate for how slow you can fall and how high the 2nd jump is.

 

[cwjalex]

I would just jump, block, or spam my own projectiles. Rob is a nasty camper.

 

[hoopspr226]

Honestly there isnt a single character i can think of that can deal with proper falco laser spam. Its too good of a projectile, and thats just half of the problem. If you do find a way to get in close he just shines you away and repeats the process. There was a video in the falco forums about properly timing his lasers so they hit kirby, yea you could crouch underneath, but what is preventing the falco from just jumping over you?

Pit's arrows are another hugely gay projectile because of how frigin fast they are. You spam a few, then when they get close they just f.B, and that move is so fast as well that you pretty much have to roll way before they even think about doing it, and even then sometimes you'll still get caught by it. Sure he isnt as bad as T.link or Falco, but it is still very hard to get around. Not to mention he also has anti spam.

T.link as well has great projectile game and any smart player isnt going to just toss **** out there left and right as fast as they can. They are going to shoot a few arrows, while you're far away, once you get closer they will throw in the boomerang which makes SH over arrows pretty stupid looking, then if you get past his boomerang he'll probably have a bomb waiting for you, and after all that frustration to finally get in close no matter if you are a space animal or frigin bowser. Then you have to deal with that ****ing sword of his.

Out of the three listed here i dont think any character has any really good approach or answer to any of it. You could go through the frustration, but with the lack of hit stun after you get 40% from projectiles to nab a grab or a lucky smash for 12-20% they can just go right back to spamming their **** at you. so thats probably another 40% tacked on and another 12-20% for them again. So already you are at 80-40 max, and its been about a minute and a half of gameplay. The only real way to get around the massive spammage is heavy brawl it seems. The reason they are so good is because half of the time the character is spent recovering from throwing something is time you spend hovering in the air from getting hit by it.

Spamming is just too good in brawl and i dont foresee any AT in the future of normal brawl to counteract it. It takes very little skill, and has an extremely high pay off. We have to find a new way to take it out or brawl will die quickly. Every tournament will have nothing but Robs, T.links, Pits, snakes (lulz), and MKs which will get really boring really quick. Other character will be seen, but with no chance of winning.
:

Lol G&W and Lucario have won major-ish tournaments already.

Also, you won't get hit by 40% worth of projectiles unless you are ******** or incredibly stubborn. Projectile spamming is not that bad.

Brawl is defensive/campy, but it's not because of overpowered projectiles. Learn to air dodge, powershield, and jump (lol). If your smart and don't let projectiles frustrate you, its not that big a deal at all.

 

[Veil2222]

It hasn't been a big deal for me either, the new airdodge helps tons, and if I'm playing a projectile character I know not to be Ike or someone else who doesn't have counter projectiles. I always airdodge, pressure with my projectiles, and close, I haven't found a defensive strategy that works all the time.

 

[Nakamaru]

It is extreme, but sometime people dont get the point unless you exaggerate.

 

[TechnoMonster]

WOAH

woah

Lets stop this thread right here before it gets too ********.

Camping isn't nearly as broken as you guys say it is.

 

[6footninja]

Camping is an overused strategy in CoD4, still has thousands of players.
I don't understand why not a soul in the Brawl mix up won't just deal with things, or find a way around it. Maybe its because were spending all of our times complaining about it on SWF, when we could be on he game getting better. Things aren't always going to be set up to suit your every need and every want. Im sorry Nintendo cannot control the mind of players. People will always find ways to make the game less fair. What can we do about that? Do you want player genocide? Why don't we all just take a deep breath of fresh air. Look at the problem, and find a way to exploit or counter it, before we go complaining and saying how Brawl is the antichrist. Or did everyone just expect to be spoon fed by Nintendo for the rest of their lives?

 

[FluxCapacitor]

Camping is an overused strategy in CoD4, still has thousands of players.
I don't understand why not a soul in the Brawl mix up won't just deal with things, or find a way around it. Maybe its because were spending all of our times complaining about it on SWF, when we could be on he game getting better. Things aren't always going to be set up to suit your every need and every want. Im sorry Nintendo cannot control the mind of players. People will always find ways to make the game less fair. What can we do about that? Do you want player genocide? Why don't we all just take a deep breath of fresh air. Look at the problem, and find a way to exploit or counter it, before we go complaining and saying how Brawl is the antichrist. Or did everyone just expect to be spoon fed by Nintendo for the rest of their lives?

If by "wanting to be spoon fed" you actually mean "desire a quality, balanced game" then yes, I indeed wanted to be spoon fed. And yet another poster whose only contribution to the discussion is some variant of "get over it." Thank you for aiding the discussion. How about you take your own advice and just go play, instead of exacerbating the problem by complaining about the complainers, most of whom concoct much better arguments than you.

 

[Deleted member]

you hit them a lot.

 

[ICEDTEA1325]

OLIMAR is one of the worst of the people to approach in my opinion because he trows pikman and when u shield he grabs you so you get dmg one way or another.... PLZ help me out..

 

[Klasens1]

I feel that you cant generalize camping with being defensive. For certain characters (Pit) spamming projectiles seems to work very well, but there are ways to stop it and it doesn't mean that your a noob camper it just means you play to one of a certain players strong suits.

 

[dragontamer]

good explanation on the deflectors i hadn't noticed that

although the deflectors still protect you , while avoiding the drain of your shield and allowing you to get closer

For fast deflectors, hold down the "B" button a little longer, and time it so that you hit them when they're comming out of the deflector. (IE: Falco, Zelda). If the opponent wishes to close distance and not sit around holding the deflector all day long (IE: Other Pits, Fox, etc.) the same concept applies, because they will be letting of of their deflector eventually.

Again, a good Pit Arrow Spammer has nothing to fear from deflectors. Perhaps air dodging the arrows while closing the distance is the best way.

OLIMAR is one of the worst of the people to approach in my opinion because he trows pikman and when u shield he grabs you so you get dmg one way or another.... PLZ help me out..

On the contrary, aside from Up-B and yellow Pikmin, Olimar doesn't have anything covering the top-side corners. It is a perfectly acceptable approach to attack from that angle, as long as you're aware that that is what he will do (or maybe run at you and up-smash / short-hop up-aerial every now and then)

Ignore the Pikmin: aside from purple ones they don't stun. Take them off after you've smashed him off stage (some sort of spin attack or something), and then follow him for the edge-guard. If you're already ~80%, the pikmin don't even stay on that long, so really, just ignore them. Most likely, they'll be shaken off while you're smacking him.

Oh yeah, and Pit's arrows are easily beaten by other camping strategies. (Falco Laser, Toon Link boomerangs...) But overall, I'd have to say that approaching Pit just means you're going to get smacked by 4 or 5 arrows. At least they'll do at most some 15% to 20% damage when you approach him, and you still have room to air dodge into the hard to hit pockets... Overall, I don't think you can "beat" Pits arrows, but at the same time I realize that it isn't too important to worry about them. You won't die from getting hit, and his arrows are less spammy than Falco's laser.