Are we asking for too many veterans?

[sogeki]

To answer my own question, yes, we are.

Let's just review for a little bit. If that leak was true, we should be getting about six DLC characters. We already have Mewtwo and Lucas, so that's eight. If that other Leak is true, then we should be getting Roy as well. Plus, Wolf is basically confirmed at this point.
Here's the list of all the veterans people are asking for. (In order of how many people want them.)

1. Wolf
2. Our Boy
3. ICs
4. Ivysaur
5. Snake
6. Pichu
7. Young Link
8. Squirtle

That's all I can think of. Leave your opinions on whether if we are asking for too many vets or not below.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not at all, also missing Young Link too, I think he has slightly more demand than Squirtle.

 

[sogeki]

Not at all, also missing Young Link too, I think he has slightly more demand than Squirtle.

Ah, thanks.

 

[A Distant Demon]

People ask for what they like. Veterans are naturally wanted from having fans from the last game.
Snake ivysaur squirtle and arguably wolf are unique anyway.

 

[Enderwoman]

Wanting pretty much every veteran except Pichu and Young Link back is perfectly justified. (We've got Toon Link already and there really isn't any reason to play Pichu over Pikachu) If they were in previous games then naturally people are going to become attached to their gameplay styles and be disappointed they didn't make it back. Besides, they've already got the framework for these guys and they'd certainly be easier to make than doing a whole new character, so why not bring them back? I'd love to see Squirtle and Wolf back.

 

[J04KlM]

I want all veterans to come back, that includes Pichu and Young Link. Veterans are a great strategy to increase the roster at a faster time rate, as they do not require as much resources as a newcomer DLC character would.

In my honest opinion, they should focus on bringing the veterans back together before they start anything with newcomers. (Ryu says otherwise, though) Last but not least, this Smash iteration seems like it really will be Sakurai's last game. He and his team seems to have DLC planned to keep this game alive for years to come, it's reasonable to think that there won't be another Smash game. At least not until a very long time.

What better way to celebrate Sakurai's last Smash game than getting all the characters that has been playable in the overall series back together? This is just my opinion, though.

Though we might not get Snake back for licensing issues, i'm not expecting Ice Climbers either. But i do hope they can come back in some form.

 

[Deleted member]

An all veteran battle, would make the ultimate Smash Bros dream come true.

Of course, i meant both the newcomers AND them. That way ( no offense ) people like me can just shut da heck up and fight.

 

[Aetheri]

From the way it's looking it doesn't matter how many vets we are asking for we are getting them regardless...
We got Mewtwo already, while Lucas is coming
Roy appears to be coming and Wolf is the next most likely candidate without confirmation or leaks...
The Smash Ballot is still pretty young and it is unlikely they took the veterans form there already especially given the seemingly early lead characters like King K Rool and Isaac have had so far...

Personally I'd be fine with Roy and Wolf coming back, maybe IC and Snake (though their situation is a little different) after that the rest are a bit more expendable to me...

Pichu is one of most hated and worst characters out there, and Young Link (unless he's a Majora's Mask variant) is completely redundant with Toon Link...Ivysaur and Squirtle seemed to function better with pkmn trainer and charizard as a team...

 

[FalKoopa]

People are asking for characters they want. And there's nothing wrong with that. Seeing new blood is always nice, but seeing your favourite character, whom you've spent years maining, feels really bad.

People grow attached to their mains; if they get cut for no reason, why WOULDN'T they be requested back?

 

[StabbityJoe]

We had one less newcomer in Sm4sh then Brawl. (Not including Lucina and Dark Pit for obvious reasons) The only veterans I think deserve to get in after the release were Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf and Ice Climbers and it seems Ice Climbers is almost definitely not going to happen and it seems Roy will get in too... We should get at least three new Newcomers out of this DLC. Ryu, King K Rool? And a Zelda rep... Maybe Impa?

 

[ErenJager]

I'd be happy with Wolf, Roy, and Ice Climbers

The rest although still possible i've basically given up hope.

Unless Pokemon Trainer returns with Pichu instead of Charizard.

 

[TheAnvil]

Considering 3/4 of the (basically) confirmed characters are vets, no.

It's pretty clear that with Sakurai's stance on cutting characters (in that he dislikes doing so), and that he made statements in 2013 saying he hadn't cut anyone yet, that he's going to finish most of these vets up to release as DLC.

Vets sell. It's not a coincidence that every UMvC3 character poll was dominated by Venom, Gambit, Mega Man, Cyclops, Jin and Captain Commando.

 

[Dark Phazon]

To answer my own question, yes, we are.

Let's just review for a little bit. If that leak was true, we should be getting about six DLC characters. We already have Mewtwo and Lucas, so that's eight. If that other Leak is true, then we should be getting Roy as well. Plus, Wolf is basically confirmed at this point.
Here's the list of all the veterans people are asking for. (In order of how many people want them.)

1. Wolf
2. Our Boy
3. ICs
4. Ivysaur
5. Snake
6. Pichu
7. Young Link
8. Squirtle

That's all I can think of. Leave your opinions on whether if we are asking for too many vets or not below.

Imo Mewtwo, Lucas, & Ice Climbers & Wolf are the only chars that should come back..

Ice Climbers are out because of the 3DS and i would have prefered Snake returning over Sonic any day of the week...but yh.....it is what it is..

Imo i think Roy potentially returning at all or even over Wolf is complete Bull*

 

[Chico2099]

Snake is my number one most wanted veteran, followed by Squirtle, Ice Climbers, and Ivysaur. The rest are just clones, even Wolf. I know I may get heat for that but, it is the honest truth. His moves are a little different but at the end of the day I just don't see the appeal. I would much rather have new characters that aren't clones over any veteran because if I ever want to play as a veteran I can just play brawl or melee. New characters are what we need!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To answer my own question, yes, we are.

Let's just review for a little bit. If that leak was true, we should be getting about six DLC characters. We already have Mewtwo and Lucas, so that's eight. If that other Leak is true, then we should be getting Roy as well. Plus, Wolf is basically confirmed at this point.
Here's the list of all the veterans people are asking for. (In order of how many people want them.)

1. Wolf
2. Our Boy
3. ICs
4. Ivysaur
5. Snake
6. Pichu
7. Young Link
8. Squirtle

That's all I can think of. Leave your opinions on whether if we are asking for too many vets or not below.

The thing is though, that not all of the veterans are going to come back.

I love Pokemon as much as the next guy, and Squirtle and Ivy were fun to play as. But if all 3 Pokemon vets come back, that's NINE POKEMON CHARACTERS. That's A LOT. Easily superfluous to me. They don't have a lot of demand to other characters, and Pichu was essentially a joke character anyway.

Young Link is (in my opinion) superfluous as well. If he's coming back, he'd probably have the same moveset he had from Melee, making him the third version of the same character. Yes, we have Dr. Mario, and yes we'll have Marth, Roy and Lucina. But in the case of the Fire Emblem lords, they're all different characters, not different renditions of the same one.

Ice Climbers have technical issues, so their chances are practically dashed.

Wolf has no reason not to come back, and Snake only has 3rd party relations in his way. So realistically, Wolf and Roy may be the only ones that come back.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Every veteran has it's fans, I wouldn't be surprised if all of the veterans came back, since he's doing DLC once, he might as well add all the veterans in the game so that every fan is satisfied.

 

[TheAnvil]

The thing is though, that not all of the veterans are going to come back.

I love Pokemon as much as the next guy, and Squirtle and Ivy were fun to play as. But if all 3 Pokemon vets come back, that's NINE POKEMON CHARACTERS. That's A LOT. Easily superfluous to me. They don't have a lot of demand to other characters, and Pichu was essentially a joke character anyway.

Young Link is (in my opinion) superfluous as well. If he's coming back, he'd probably have the same moveset he had from Melee, making him the third version of the same character. Yes, we have Dr. Mario, and yes we'll have Marth, Roy and Lucina. But in the case of the Fire Emblem lords, they're all different characters, not different renditions of the same one.

Ice Climbers have technical issues, so their chances are practically dashed.

Wolf has no reason not to come back, and Snake only has 3rd party relations in his way. So realistically, Wolf and Roy may be the only ones that come back.

#1 Pokemon nearly had 8 characters in Brawl, on a roster of 45 (Forbidden 7)
#2 Pokemon had exactly the same amount of characters as Mario in Brawl (more if you aren't including the pseudo-Mario reps Yoshi and Wario).
#3 The proportion would be exactly the same as this game if all three Pokemon returned. 8 unique characters and 1 clone. More Pokemon if you don't count Wario and Yoshi.

9 Pokemon out of a probable 60 roster is NOT "a lot".

Not to mention now that every vet is either a clone, or has data from Brawl that can be ported over. They are substantially easier to make than newcomers.

I for one would love this to be the most complete Smash game ever.

----------------------

I also feel compelled to point out that calling Young Link the same character as Link and Toon Link is ridiculously ignorant to the Zelda series. With the exception of certain sequels, every Link is unique. As unique as Mario is from Luigi, or Marth is from Ike.

The fact that they have the same name, no more makes them the same character than it does Roy (Koopa) and Roy (FE Lord).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

#1 Pokemon nearly had 8 characters in Brawl, on a roster of 45 (Forbidden 7)
#2 Pokemon had exactly the same amount of characters as Mario in Brawl (more if you aren't including the pseudo-Mario reps Yoshi and Wario).
#3 The proportion would be exactly the same as this game if all three Pokemon returned. 8 unique characters and 1 clone. More Pokemon if you don't count Wario and Yoshi.

9 Pokemon out of a probable 60 roster is NOT "a lot".

Not to mention now that every vet is either a clone, or has data from Brawl that can be ported over. They are substantially easier to make than newcomers.

I for one would love this to be the most complete Smash game ever.

----------------------

I also feel compelled to point out that calling Young Link the same character as Link and Toon Link is ridiculously ignorant to the Zelda series. With the exception of certain sequels, every Link is unique. As unique as Mario is from Luigi, or Marth is from Ike.

The fact that they have the same name, no more makes them the same character than it does Roy (Koopa) and Roy (FE Lord).

In the Zelda series? Yeah, they're different. But this is Smash Bros. Variety is important.

Adding Young Link gives us the same base character with the SAME moveset. If you want to talk representation of Zelda, Sakurai looks at it as: Adult Link represents the adult side, Young Link represents the games in which Link is Younger. Toon Link represents the games that have the toon style, as well as the younger games.

I really don't see the need to have another Link. If Sakurai intended on having Young Link, why would he have bothered making Toon Link? Why wouldn't he have both? Most likely, it's because Toon Link is the "spiritual successor" to Young Link. He has the same moveset, just with different weight and floatiness.

On another note, even if a character is easier to make, it doesn't mean they SHOULD be made.

If we get 9 DLC characters,and if Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu get added, that's...4 out of 9 characters as Pokemon. That is completely oversaturated, veterans or not. 4 characters from the same series? Sheesh.

 

[AreJay25]

I only really want Wolf, and Roy is pretty much already confirmed. But I don't really have any problems with other veterans coming back.

Spoiler

Except Pichu. For way too many reasons.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I don't think so.

With DLC now a thing for Super Smash Bros., now is a great time to request characters that had been cut from the transition between Brawl and Sm4sh. Aside from veterans, people have been requesting characters that either have yet to appear or could provide a unique gameplay style to the series.

I feel like for every veteran we request, there's another character that people want in as a newcomer. Just look at the first page of the character discussion boards and you'll see what I mean.

 

[TheAnvil]

In the Zelda series? Yeah, they're different. But this is Smash Bros. Variety is important.

Adding Young Link gives us the same base character with the SAME moveset. If you want to talk representation of Zelda, Sakurai looks at it as: Adult Link represents the adult side, Young Link represents the games in which Link is Younger. Toon Link represents the games that have the toon style, as well as the younger games.

I really don't see the need to have another Link. If Sakurai intended on having Young Link, why would he have bothered making Toon Link? Why wouldn't he have both? Most likely, it's because Toon Link is the "spiritual successor" to Young Link. He has the same moveset, just with different weight and floatiness.

On another note, even if a character is easier to make, it doesn't mean they SHOULD be made.

If we get 9 DLC characters,and if Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu get added, that's...4 out of 9 characters as Pokemon. That is completely oversaturated, veterans or not. 4 characters from the same series? Sheesh.

Variety is important, and we're getting Roy. So there's absolutely no reason to say that Young Link can't come back. The Zelda series has received very little new content in this iteration of Smash (or Brawl, even). So Young Link returning would at least be giving some attention to a franchise that needs it. One of the big 3, at that. And again, if Roy comes back, then Young Link can come back.

Sakurai's perception on the Links is constantly shifting though. Which is why regular Link's trophy is in the Twilight Princess section in the Trophy Exhibit display, and why Shiek is in the OOT section, despite the design being based on the abandoned TP concept.

You may not see the need for another Link. I didn't see the need for Roy, considering we already have 4 Fire Emblem characters (which is already too many for a niche franchise) and 2 different Marth-based movesets. I actually really do see the need for the Link from the most successful and critically acclaimed Zelda title to be playable in Smash Bros to be quite honest.

It does mean they should be made when they have fans clamoring for their return. And if it's them or nothing, why would you choose nothing?

That'll only be because Pokemon was so shafted on the disc. And guess what? Pokemon will sell.

 

[StabbityJoe]

I wouldn't mind seeing Young Link if they gave him his own move set.

 

[Putuk]

People are asking for characters they want. And there's nothing wrong with that. Seeing new blood is always nice, but seeing your favourite character, whom you've spent years maining, feels really bad.

People grow attached to their mains; if they get cut for no reason, why WOULDN'T they be requested back?

This.
That's why I voted for Wolf in the ballot; I got my most wanted character in Lucas and I feel for people in a similar boat as me.
Ultimately just vote for the (video game) character you like. It's as simple as that. Now people might berate you for picking an unpopular vote, but there's no real wrong choice.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Snake is my number one most wanted veteran, followed by Squirtle, Ice Climbers, and Ivysaur. The rest are just clones, even Wolf. I know I may get heat for that but, it is the honest truth. His moves are a little different but at the end of the day I just don't see the appeal. I would much rather have new characters that aren't clones over any veteran because if I ever want to play as a veteran I can just play brawl or melee. New characters are what we need!

We all know Roy if anything should have been in instead of Lucina...
Inly because new FE game and i guess for more female reps...

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Mewtwo and Wolf were the only ones I actually wanted to return, but I'm ok with Lucas and Roy (only if he's not a full clone).
Save Ice Climbers for next Smash. Would be fine with Squirtle and Ivysaur, but I think there are enough Pokemon in Smash 4. I don't think Snake, Pichu, Young Link and clone Roy should come back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf and Roy where all characters I wanted to see return, everyone else doesn't excite me really. I'd only find it amazing if they'd get Snake back just for fans alone. Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Young Link are less needed, but I wouldn't be upset with their return as long as we're getting new characters as well. If Pichu was to return, I'd actually want to play him to.

 

[Wintropy]

I played Wolf and Lucas and Brawl, one of whom is returning and the other is very likely to return in future. Aside from that, I think Snake was great fun, my brother really wants to see Roy come back and I love Pichu.

I'd rather see newcomers, personally, but more content is always welcome.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Not at all. Considering there is a Smash ballot likely for the newcomers, it's fine to request veterans because some have a lot of fans. Wolf along with Roy might be in development before the ballot. Considering Sakurai was developing Lucas along with Mewtwo, I could see that happening. I really want Wolf back since he was so much fun to play and unique. I'm looking forward for Roy to see if he has any changes. Luckily, Wolf and Roy seem very likely to come in the future. Not so sure about the Ice Climbers or Snake. Wouldn't mind if they made it in or not since they have tons of fans and want them back. As for the rest, I don't want them back since they are not that popular or relevant. Overall, I think Wolf and Roy have a great chance for their return in the new Smash. There will be some complaints, but you can't please everybody. If you don't like the characters, then just don't buy them. No, they are not a waste of slots. Even though data shows us 5 more slots, there could be a little more than that. Sakurai could add as many characters as he can. He does not choice characters by slots. Look how many Mario and fire Emblem characters we got.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Not at all. Considering there is a Smash ballot likely for the newcomers, it's fine to request veterans because some have a lot of fans. Wolf along with Roy might be in development before the ballot. Considering Sakurai was developing Lucas along with Mewtwo, I could see that happening. I really want Wolf back since he was so much fun to play and unique. I'm looking forward for Roy to see if he has any changes. Luckily, Wolf and Roy seem very likely to come in the future. Not so sure about the Ice Climbers or Snake. Wouldn't mind if they made it in or not since they have tons of fans and want them back. As for the rest, I don't want them back since they are not that popular or relevant. Overall, I think Wolf and Roy have a great chance for their return in the new Smash. There will be some complaints, but you can't please everybody. If you don't like the characters, then just don't buy them. No, they are not a waste of slots. Even though data shows us 5 more slots, there could be a little more than that. Sakurai could add as many characters as he can. He does not choice characters by slots. Look how many Mario and fire Emblem characters we got.

Is 5 Fire Emblem characters too much for a series that spans over 14 games and has hundreds of characters in it?

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Is 5 Fire Emblem characters too much for a series that spans over 14 games and has hundreds of characters in it?

Not all all. It does not ruin the whole roster.

 

[memoryman3]

People are asking for characters they want. And there's nothing wrong with that. Seeing new blood is always nice, but seeing your favourite character, whom you've spent years maining, feels really bad.

People grow attached to their mains; if they get cut for no reason, why WOULDN'T they be requested back?

Wolf..................I will never forget that cruel final fight and Wolf Illusion

 

[Serell]

All we need are Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf, Roy, and Ice Climbers back.

 

[StabbityJoe]

Is 5 Fire Emblem characters too much for a series that spans over 14 games and has hundreds of characters in it?

Is 5 characters and two being clones and two being actually the same character fair to a series with a game on every Nintnedo console and beloved by millions?

 

[Wintropy]

Is 5 characters and two being clones and two being actually the same character fair to a series with a game on every Nintnedo console and beloved by millions?

You're right.

We need Tiki and Anna to settle things. ;3

 

[Ura]

The initial roster has an emphasis on bringing newcomers to the game so I don't see why DLC having an emphasis on veterans is a bad thing.

Theirs bound to be a huge amount of newcomers in the Smash Ballot. Have faith people.

 

[sogeki]

oh my god this thread blew up lol

 

[Asian_Charizard]

I personally just want newcomers for DLC, but that's probably because I have no attachment to any of the veterans. Though I wouldn't mind them, except for Pichu and young Link.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I don't think so. The Smash Ballot does encourage requests for new characters, but there's no reason not to ask for the old characters that were cut between games. Mewtwo and Lucas returned because of fan demand, so there's no reason veterans like Wolf, Snake, or even Roy can't.

Besides, nobody likes seeing their main get cut.

 

[Swagkage]

Well.
The question of "are we asking for too many veterans" is a bit tricky to answer since that's a question directed at everyone in the Smash community.

Now, for the sake of answering the question, let's just say that everyone was asking for all nine of the vets listed in the first two posts here. In that case, yes, we would be asking for too many vets. Nine entire veteran DLC characters would be ridiculous, and at that point there'd almost be no hope at all for any newcomers because people would already be shelling out like $30-$40 for all of the game's DLC characters.

The thing is, nobody expects all nine of those characters to be released as DLC for the reasons I gave above. Most people, both in and out of this forum, seem to want anywhere from one to three (not counting Lucas and Mewtwo of course) veteran characters, and that's honestly not that big of an issue.

What is an issue is when people ask to see four or more separate from Mewtwo and Lucas, because at that point six DLC spots will have been reserved for DLC characters alone, and that's more characters than a lot of fighting games get as DLC.

Like at all.

Injustice had six DLC characters: Zod, Martian Manhunter, Batgirl, Scorpion, Lobo and Zatanna, and that's probably the largest amount of non pre-order bonus DLC characters I've ever seen in a fighting game. MKX has 5 announced DLC characters, but that's another rare scenario and likely has to do with the fact that MKX is, like Injustice, published by Warner Bros.

If we end up with any more than three additional veterans as DLC, then it'd be a miracle for us to see one or two DLC newcomers. Some people in the community are saying things like "nah I only want Wolf, Snake, Roy, Pichu, and Young Link, and I'd also like to see like 3 newcomer characters show up as well!"

Stuff like that is unrealistic. I'll take one more vet as long as I can be assured that we get some newcomers to change up the meta a bit since that's always nice. I'll say I want Snake as my vet SOLELY because I want to be able to have Rules of Nature in the soundtrack, and as for newcomers, the fact that the ballot exists is evidence enough that there are PLENTY of newcomer opportunities. Waluigi, Metal Sonic, Black Shadow, Banjo, Ryu, Simon Belmont, et cetera et cetera. I'd hope to see some of them make it into the game instead of seeing a whole bunch of characters I've already played as, although I definitely would like it if they could somehow introduce a bunch of newcomers while still making as many vets as possible DLC.

 

[sogeki]

Well.
The question of "are we asking for too many veterans" is a bit tricky to answer since that's a question directed at everyone in the Smash community.

Now, for the sake of answering the question, let's just say that everyone was asking for all nine of the vets listed in the first two posts here. In that case, yes, we would be asking for too many vets. Nine entire veteran DLC characters would be ridiculous, and at that point there'd almost be no hope at all for any newcomers because people would already be shelling out like $30-$40 for all of the game's DLC characters.

The thing is, nobody expects all nine of those characters to be released as DLC for the reasons I gave above. Most people, both in and out of this forum, seem to want anywhere from one to three (not counting Lucas and Mewtwo of course) veteran characters, and that's honestly not that big of an issue.

What is an issue is when people ask to see four or more separate from Mewtwo and Lucas, because at that point six DLC spots will have been reserved for DLC characters alone, and that's more characters than a lot of fighting games get as DLC.

Like at all.

Injustice had six DLC characters: Zod, Martian Manhunter, Batgirl, Scorpion, Lobo and Zatanna, and that's probably the largest amount of non pre-order bonus DLC characters I've ever seen in a fighting game. MKX has 5 announced DLC characters, but that's another rare scenario and likely has to do with the fact that MKX is, like Injustice, published by Warner Bros.

If we end up with any more than three additional veterans as DLC, then it'd be a miracle for us to see one or two DLC newcomers. Some people in the community are saying things like "nah I only want Wolf, Snake, Roy, Pichu, and Young Link, and I'd also like to see like 3 newcomer characters show up as well!"

Stuff like that is unrealistic. I'll take one more vet as long as I can be assured that we get some newcomers to change up the meta a bit since that's always nice. I'll say I want Snake as my vet SOLELY because I want to be able to have Rules of Nature in the soundtrack, and as for newcomers, the fact that the ballot exists is evidence enough that there are PLENTY of newcomer opportunities. Waluigi, Metal Sonic, Black Shadow, Banjo, Ryu, Simon Belmont, et cetera et cetera. I'd hope to see some of them make it into the game instead of seeing a whole bunch of characters I've already played as, although I definitely would like it if they could somehow introduce a bunch of newcomers while still making as many vets as possible DLC.

But Injustice's DLC was premade, and Sakurai has to choose whether or not he wants to work on it.