Are you dissapointed Dark Pit was a clone?

[True Blue Warrior]

Street Fighter has an incredibly different demographic compared to SSB, and that's an expansion game instead of separate DLC where you have to buy all ten characters no matter what.

Not that much. A lot of the types of people who play games like Street Fighter (aka adults) are the exact same kind of people who play Smash Bros, especially as Smash is actually deep enough and accessible enough that you can play at a hardcore or a casual level and still enjoy the game. In fact, the average gamer is 31, so there is a lot more overlap between the types of people that play Smash and traditional fighting games than you make it out to be.

Expansion or not, it doesn't matter at all as in the end, considering both are completely optional to the general audience.

Would they of made WFT DLC?

You used the worst example. Of course they wouldn't have made someone like WFT DLC considering nobody asked for her. Her example isn't even applicable to any other characters brought up.

K. Rool is nothing to the casual fanbase. People who draw or request K. Rool don't get any attention on Miiverse. Even those who've bought the original games don't have a clue who he is because he's just the final boss. And in Japan he's only in the first game due to translation changes. People severely overrate K. Rool's presence.

You dismiss sites like this and others as being ill representative of the general fanbase and you use Miiverse as a representative of the casuals? Miiverse is not only no more representative of the fanbase than any other place on the internet (this is shown by the fact that despite all the requests for Goku over there, he doesn't actually get heavily requested anywhere else where Smash fans hang around), it's not even a good representative of the casual Nintendo fans.

Miiverse was the very place that was able to convince Nintendo to localize the Earthbound VC rerelease, due to the huge amount of interest and campaigning there were over there. Considering just how obscure Earthbound is, not even being able to sell over 1 million copies, and thus being something only popular among hardcore Nintendo fans, that again shows that Miiverse isn't a casual place because the general audience have no idea of Earthbound' existence.

Hades isn't even that obscure, apparently... A pic of him showed up in the popular posts of Miiverse a day or two ago. And it was in Spanish. (Japan is the only region that gets a separate community, and the popular section almost never has non-English posts.)

What? Yes, he is that obscure. Grandted, he is not as obscure as someone like Chibi Robo, but he is still obscure. If Palutena, based off surveys off actual casual people (like this video and others) was unable to be recognized among the actual general audience, then Hades would not be. A pic of his being shown on Miiverse means nothing as again, that site does not represent the general audience (again, Earthbound example).

Dark Pit and Lucina make Toon Link look like Lucas and Wolf imo, not sure why some people tend to lump him specifically together with the three used-to-be-alernate-costume clones as he has quite a number of differences from Link compared to them. He's closer to Falco and Ganondorf than them if you ask me. :/

Funny thing is, Brawl had the least amounts of clones. I mean, compare

Smash 64
Clone:
Semi-Clone:


Melee
Clone:
Semi-Clone:

Brawl
Semi-Clone:

Smash 4
Semi-Clone:
Clone:

Nothing really important, just something interesting I wanted to note.

 

[The Smashor]

NO MORE HATE FOR!!!!!!!! HE HAD AWESOME TAUNTS AND A GOOD FINAL SMASH!!! I LIKE HIM MORE THEN PIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MARE HATE FOR CLONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Yeah there are plenty differences between the 2 Links (including height/weight), but they have the exact same Special moves and Final Smash as one-another I still consider Toon Link a full-on clone even if he was re-worked to be a semi-clone (only differences he and Link have are slightly different throws and air attacks), people have been clamoring for Toon Link to get a moveset that's more related to the games that he's from (most notably example is a Wind-Waker style moveset), there's still alot of people that wanted Toon Link cut from the Smash series, because he was an unncessary addition to the Smash roster during Brawl.

The two Links' specials are similar in form, there's no denying that, but exactly the same? 's arrows have extremely low gravity even when uncharged, which helps him with his pressure game when combined with his other subweapons. His boomerang is easier to control than 's, it hits on the way back rather than pulling targets back, in which case it can interrupt his target if they are unaware which allows to punish targets hard. There isn't much of a difference between the two bombs, but his sheer agility can lead to setups. His Spin Attack can send him higher than , but on ground there isn't that much he can do with it other than hit a target multiple times. And it's more than just his specials. His aerial combat is very much unlike 's. is a master of air combat with his spinning slice, back slice, double-sided slash and down stab that sends him to the depths. Though his up stab is more or less the same. Someone noted that he has a few ground moves to call his own, like his up-smash which has a wide range and a great deal of killing power and doesn't leave him open as long as .

I don't see how he would've been an unnecessary addition during the Brawl timeline. is practically the definitive younger version of Link, one that has made consistent reappearances as opposed to other forms. Though I do agree that it would've been pretty awesome to see a Wind Waker-inspired moveset for him, but we'll just have to do with the one we have which is totally fine by me. I don't remember a lot of clamoring for him to be cut, though.

And I'm getting sick of people bashing Dark Pit (especially against people who criticize those who main him), just because he's an unnecessary addition (yeah he's a full-on clone, but he has a different FS and taunts that set's him apart from Pit), he combos alot better (as does Pit) than my current Brawl main Lucario (who lost a lot of his good tools from Brawl that allowed him to do those combos in the air), plus he's not as annoying as Pit (which is why people like him in the 1st place), plus he has way more online appearances than regular Pit does.

A problem that some have with is the fact that he came from a tiny series that got "overrepped" in Smash, as the critics claim. Let's just say that him being a copy-and-paste clone didn't make his situation any better. Well, to be fair, he is a literal clone of even in their respective series. I have no issue with him, though. I actually do like him as a character.

Lucinia was the 1st clone revealed for the game and people were more or less 50/50 split on her getting in, Dr. Mario was mostly well received, since everyone hated Brawl Mario's moveset and wanted Melee Mario back (although early on he was hated, since everyone including me wanted Mewtwo back, and wasn't expecting the doctor to hop back in after he was axed from Brawl), while Dark Pit gets trashed for being a full-on clone (who has almost little to no differences from Reg Pit), to be honest clones are here to stay in Smash Bros as long as Sakurai stays on as director, just deal with it (kinda odd that no one complains about Ken Masters or Akuma being clones of Ryu from Street Fighter and they're just as beloved as Ryu is).

Yet people wanted Chrom in, whom is practically the same as. I don't see how he would've been any different since he wields the exact same weapon.

Once Mewtwo gets released, I'm dropping Dark Pit for him anyways (this depends on how much changes he went through between Melee-to-4), since DP is more or less going to be a novetly pick anyways (just like Roy was in Melee).

That's all is at this point, just a little extra that the Smash team decided to shove in with whatever time they had left.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

I don't see how he would've been an unnecessary addition during the Brawl timeline. is practically the definitive younger version of Link, one that has made consistent reappearances as opposed to other forms. Though I do agree that it would've been pretty awesome to see a Wind Waker-inspired moveset for him, but we'll just have to do with the one we have which is totally fine by me. I don't remember a lot of clamoring for him to be cut, though.

Yet people wanted Chrom in, whom is practically the same as. I don't see how he would've been any different since he wields the exact same weapon.

That's all is at this point, just a little extra that the Smash team decided to shove in with whatever time they had left.

Well before Toon Link was revealed to be back, there was some Nintendo fanboys on Youtube that were making rumor predictions saying Toon Link was going to get axed, and he got the same treatment that Dark Pit is getting now when he was 1st shown off because his moveset was never changed one bit from his Brawl self (along with the fact he was 1 of the very last of the Brawl newcomers revealed to get an early reveal), because they wanted him to be less like Adult Link and more like his Wind-Waker self in terms of moveset (thank god he is a semi-clone, the reason I call him a full-clone because he's still a version of Link who has the same special moves as Adult Link but have enough differences in his moveset to be treated differently kinda like Falco, Wolf and Ganondorf in Brawl).

I would have loved to see Chrom as a Marth/Ike hybrid rather than an actual Marth clone like his daugther ended up becoming (if he reappears in a future FE game without Robin in it then he might get in, but regardless he should have been the main FE Awakening rep, since he was the main lord of his game next to Lucinia, only reason he didn't make it was because we would have had 3 blue-haired swordsmen in Smash (according to Sakurai), yet we kinda still do have 3 of those (just 1 of the 3 is a female who happens to be unlockable, which is what Chrom would have taken had he been in it as intended).

Again thank god they're willing to balance out certain characters in patch updates (which so far Dark Pit has gotten a little bit of a shaft since his F-tilt stil dosen't have the same knockback power that reg Pit has), but regardless Dark Pit is going to be the 1st character axed whenever Smash 5 starts gaining ground because of all the hate he's getting (same goes for Lucinia and Dr. Mario, although I feel the Doc will stick around, because of Melee whiners), regardless just because we have 3 complete clones there are other characters on the roster that are very unique, heck if you hate clones don't use them period, they're just filler characters anyways, yet most people hate clones other than to hate, because they feel they took a favorite character's spot (Dixie, Mewtwo (although he'll be back very shortly, which by then I'll drop DP as a main and stick with my old Melee main), Lucas and Wolf to name a few), but some offer a different flavor (I don't mind Marth nor Lucina (and can use them all the same with or without tippers), I prefer old Melee Mario than Brawl Mario for obivous reasons so I stick with Dr. Mario (hate the FLUDD with a burning passion), and can't stand Pit regardless (too annoying when I use him, even though I like Sonic, who's just as annoying if not more annoying than Pit is), even if Pit turns out to be superior to Dark Pit (which is going to happen, once the 1st tier list gets revealed), I prefer Dark Pit, because he's the type of character I'm attached to (same goes for Shadow, Mewtwo and a few other characters that have that similar look about them), even though he's a reskinned Pit, plus I loved Pit's fighting style in Brawl (right next to Lucario's).

Would Dr. Mario be considered a semi-clone in the same vein as Toon Link or not? Because he should be up there with his fellow Mario reps, and not lumped in there with Lucina and Dark Pit, since out of the 3, he's more different clone-wise than those 2.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I think one of the main reasons people have a huge dislike for Dark Pit is the fact that he wound up being a clone of Pit, taking the third spot in which most would suspect that characters like Hades, Medusa, etc would have taken.

That and he wasn't one of the more popular choices in the first place since people would think he would be a clone anyway. I should know, I was one of those people.

 

[PhantomShab]

thank god he is a semi-clone, the reason I call him a full-clone because he's still a version of Link who has the same special moves as Adult Link but have enough differences in his moveset to be treated differently

So he's a full-on clone...because he's a semi-clone...

Ok.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

So he's a full-on clone...because he's a semi-clone...

Ok.

Full-on clone, since he's a copy/related version of a character that's in the game (Toon Link may look different to Link in terms of playstyle/moveset, but he's still Link regardless, same way that Dr Mario is basically Mario in a doctor outfit).

He has enough moves to be set apart from regular Link, the reason I dislike Toon Link mainly is because he's another version of Link with the same exact Final Smash (only weaker), we need only 1 version of a character not 2 then again the Toon Zelda series needs a rep, but they could have done a better job with Toon Link's special moves that represents that portion of the series (he should have a Wind Waker special based moveset, his actual fighting style can stay the same, since it already sets him apart from reg Link.)

I just want this feud to end already, and I'm sorry if I'm the 1 that started it, I'll just vanish from this thread for awhile.

 

[PhantomShab]

we need only 1 version of a character not 2

Then why are you a fan of Dark Pit in Smash?

I'm sorry, but you just keep saying these contradictory things.

And at least the 2 versions of Link in Smash 4 are canonically different people. Can Dark Pit technically even be considered a different person?

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't see how he would've been an unnecessary addition during the Brawl timeline. is practically the definitive younger version of Link, one that has made consistent reappearances as opposed to other forms. Though I do agree that it would've been pretty awesome to see a Wind Waker-inspired moveset for him, but we'll just have to do with the one we have which is totally fine by me. I don't remember a lot of clamoring for him to be cut, though.

People did expect Toon Link to be cut mainly because of the whole Conductor Link fiasco making him usually the number one character in peoples cuts list back then and because he was "the cloniest of Brawl clones" as well as "he replaced Young Link, so he will be replaced too" logic which made people mainly expect him to be cut and no one else.

Which was a bit ridiculous if you ask me and like you said, he had importance in Sakurai's eyes as a child Link which is a pretty important part of Link as he has appeared as a youngster more often than not throughout the Zelda series as well as being one of the most recurring Link's and a very popular Link with the Japanese fans so its not like he had no place in the games.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Well before Toon Link was revealed to be back, there was some Nintendo fanboys on Youtube that were making rumor predictions saying Toon Link was going to get axed, and he got the same treatment that Dark Pit is getting now when he was 1st shown off because his moveset was never changed one bit from his Brawl self (along with the fact he was 1 of the very last of the Brawl newcomers revealed to get an early reveal), because they wanted him to be less like Adult Link and more like his Wind-Waker self in terms of moveset (thank god he is a semi-clone, the reason I call him a full-clone because he's still a version of Link who has the same special moves as Adult Link but have enough differences in his moveset to be treated differently kinda like Falco, Wolf and Ganondorf in Brawl).

Personally, I think was less like to begin with even with the similar specials. In my book, a true clone is a character that has a FULL copy-pasted moveset, something that doesn't have.

There were moments when I thought he might leave early in the development cycle(mainly due to seeing him manning the Spirit Train in the trailer), but I really didn't want him to leave, even though I don't use him. To be honest, out of the many LoZ games I've played, he is my favorite incarnation of Link. I was kinda happy to see him return.

I would have loved to see Chrom as a Marth/Ike hybrid rather than an actual Marth clone like his daugther ended up becoming (if he reappears in a future FE game without Robin in it then he might get in, but regardless he should have been the main FE Awakening rep, since he was the main lord of his game next to Lucinia, only reason he didn't make it was because we would have had 3 blue-haired swordsmen in Smash (according to Sakurai), yet we kinda still do have 3 of those (just 1 of the 3 is a female who happens to be unlockable, which is what Chrom would have taken had he been in it as intended).

Until the / trailer, I was almost fully convinced that Chrom was going to be the next FE rep. Sure he was the game's lord and all, but is a character that has much to bring to the table in terms of series representation, it's no wonder Sakurai chose him to be the new main FE rep. But yeah, we effectively do have Chrom in the game, except it's .

Again thank god they're willing to balance out certain characters in patch updates (which so far Dark Pit has gotten a little bit of a shaft since his F-tilt stil dosen't have the same knockback power that reg Pit has), but regardless Dark Pit is going to be the 1st character axed whenever Smash 5 starts gaining ground because of all the hate he's getting (same goes for Lucinia and Dr. Mario, although I feel the Doc will stick around, because of Melee whiners), regardless just because we have 3 complete clones there are other characters on the roster that are very unique, heck if you hate clones don't use them period, they're just filler characters anyways, yet most people hate clones other than to hate, because they feel they took a favorite character's spot (Dixie, Mewtwo (although he'll be back very shortly, which by then I'll drop DP as a main and stick with my old Melee main), Lucas and Wolf to name a few), but some offer a different flavor (I don't mind Marth nor Lucina (and can use them all the same with or without tippers), I prefer old Melee Mario than Brawl Mario for obivous reasons so I stick with Dr. Mario (hate the FLUDD with a burning passion), and can't stand Pit regardless (too annoying when I use him, even though I like Sonic, who's just as annoying if not more annoying than Pit is), even if Pit turns out to be superior to Dark Pit (which is going to happen, once the 1st tier list gets revealed), I prefer Dark Pit, because he's the type of character I'm attached to (same goes for Shadow, Mewtwo and a few other characters that have that similar look about them), even though he's a reskinned Pit, plus I loved Pit's fighting style in Brawl (right next to Lucario's).

We don't know if is getting the axe for sure, IF there is a future Smash anyway. To be clear, I don't hate clones at all. One of my favorite characters back in the SSBM days was a clone(). As for the Doc, Sakurai once stated that he likes him, like, a lot. Doc hanging around might be a bit of bias on Sakurai's part, not that I'm one to complain about something like that.

So you like edgy guys more than their exuberant counterparts, that's totally fine.

Would Dr. Mario be considered a semi-clone in the same vein as Toon Link or not? Because he should be up there with his fellow Mario reps, and not lumped in there with Lucina and Dark Pit, since out of the 3, he's more different clone-wise than those 2.

Well, technically he still retains the old moveset he had back in the day, so I'd say he's still a true clone as opposed to .

Full-on clone, since he's a copy/related version of a character that's in the game (Toon Link may look different to Link in terms of playstyle/moveset, but he's still Link regardless, same way that Dr Mario is basically Mario in a doctor outfit).

He has enough moves to be set apart from regular Link, the reason I dislike Toon Link mainly is because he's another version of Link with the same exact Final Smash (only weaker), we need only 1 version of a character not 2 then again the Toon Zelda series needs a rep, but they could have done a better job with Toon Link's special moves that represents that portion of the series (he should have a Wind Waker special based moveset, his actual fighting style can stay the same, since it already sets him apart from reg Link.)

I just want this feud to end already, and I'm sorry if I'm the 1 that started it, I'll just vanish from this thread for awhile.

The "full-on clone because related" logic can't be applied to certain characters because they actually break that logic. Take for example. He's related to the other Star Fox characters, yes, but the only moves that he has that are even REMOTELY related to the other two are his specials(not counting Final Smash). They are similar in form, but their functions are radically different, so much that they don't even seem like they're related. Everything else is completely his own.

This isn't really a feud, that would entail more insulting and flaming, both of which aren't happening at all. This is just a discussion on getting our bearings right on who is or isn't whatever.

People did expect Toon Link to be cut mainly because of the whole Conductor Link fiasco making him usually the number one character in peoples cuts list back then and because he was "the cloniest of Brawl clones" as well as "he replaced Young Link, so he will be replaced too" logic which made people mainly expect him to be cut and no one else.

Which was a bit ridiculous if you ask me and like you said, he had importance in Sakurai's eyes as a child Link which is a pretty important part of Link as he has appeared as a youngster more often than not throughout the Zelda series as well as being one of the most recurring Link's and a very popular Link with the Japanese fans so its not like he had no place in the games.

I still felt as if was more clonish than . And as far as I'm concerned, didn't "replace" . He IS , just a different incarnation of the character.

 

[Frostwraith]

Can I just say that I like both and ? Because I do.

I don't care if they're clones. They're fun to play as. That's all that matters.

And I agree that Toon Link is Young Link in a way. Just a different incarnation and design. The reason for Toon Link being in Brawl and Smash 4 is the same as Young Link's reason to be in Melee.

Gameplay-wise, the changes from Young Link to Toon Link are comparable to the changes other clones had from Melee to Brawl (such as Falco and Ganondorf).

 

[LancerStaff]

Not that much. A lot of the types of people who play games like Street Fighter (aka adults) are the exact same kind of people who play Smash Bros, especially as Smash is actually deep enough and accessible enough that you can play at a hardcore or a casual level and still enjoy the game. In fact, the average gamer is 31, so there is a lot more overlap between the types of people that play Smash and traditional fighting games than you make it out to be.

Expansion or not, it doesn't matter at all as in the end, considering both are completely optional to the general audience.

You used the worst example. Of course they wouldn't have made someone like WFT DLC considering nobody asked for her. Her example isn't even applicable to any other characters brought up.

You dismiss sites like this and others as being ill representative of the general fanbase and you use Miiverse as a representative of the casuals? Miiverse is not only no more representative of the fanbase than any other place on the internet (this is shown by the fact that despite all the requests for Goku over there, he doesn't actually get heavily requested anywhere else where Smash fans hang around), it's not even a good representative of the casual Nintendo fans.

Miiverse was the very place that was able to convince Nintendo to localize the Earthbound VC rerelease, due to the huge amount of interest and campaigning there were over there. Considering just how obscure Earthbound is, not even being able to sell over 1 million copies, and thus being something only popular among hardcore Nintendo fans, that again shows that Miiverse isn't a casual place because the general audience have no idea of Earthbound' existence.

What? Yes, he is that obscure. Grandted, he is not as obscure as someone like Chibi Robo, but he is still obscure. If Palutena, based off surveys off actual casual people (like this video and others) was unable to be recognized among the actual general audience, then Hades would not be. A pic of his being shown on Miiverse means nothing as again, that site does not represent the general audience (again, Earthbound example).

The average gamer is 31... The average Nintendo gamer is about 13. Again, Nintendo represents a very unique portion of gaming as a whole. They're the exception, not the rule.

Popularity varies quite a bit in Smash. If a DLC character gets outted as bad and it's obscure, nobody will buy it except the hardcores. That's not really enough.

Every Wii U and 3DS has access to Miiverse and is advertised. You're required a NNID for the Wii U Eshop, and it's required for the freebies on 3DS now. I'd say that almost every modern Nintendo system connected to the internet has a Miiverse account. How is data from it inaccurate? It's the most casual Nintendo forum there is, and like you said, Nintendo listens to it.

That was back when it was Wii U only, and all the protesters did was kill the Balloon Fight community. It wasn't even very lively after that. And then there was the outrage when Earthbound cost more then the average SNES game...

Because random people off the street are all casual Nintendo fans.

I think one of the main reasons people have a huge dislike for Dark Pit is the fact that he wound up being a clone of Pit, taking the third spot in which most would suspect that characters like Hades, Medusa, etc would have taken.

That and he wasn't one of the more popular choices in the first place since people would think he would be a clone anyway. I should know, I was one of those people.

I think the KI fanbase has realized that they weren't going to get a real third character by now. The third character would end up being Viridi and not Hades or Medusa anyway.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The average gamer is 31... The average Nintendo gamer is about 13. Again, Nintendo represents a very unique portion of gaming as a whole. They're the exception, not the rule.

That statement is not true. The ESA, the people who made that finding included all the major video game company like EA, Konami, Nintendo, Square Enix, Sega, Microsoft and Capcom. Those findings were the most accurate and the most comprehensive study done into the demographics of the average gamer. That finding is completely relevant to this context

Here, check out the full information:http://web.archive.org/web/20140613233445/http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2014.pdf

This is actual solid research that cannot be argued against.

You're required a NNID for the Wii U Eshop, and it's required for the freebies on 3DS now.

More importantly, you need an NNID for Miiverse, which means not just anyone could be able to use that site, which limits that audience.

I'd say that almost every modern Nintendo system connected to the internet has a Miiverse account.

That the thing. Not everyone with a Nintendo console has their console connected to the internet considering it ain't easy enough setting the internet connection on that just anyone is able to do so.

And far from everyone uses it or is even interested in Miiverse due to the bad reputation it has among many people, which would already limit the audience over at Miiverse even further.

How is data from it inaccurate? It's the most casual Nintendo forum there is, and like you said, Nintendo listens to it.

Because a large portion of the people who go on said forum are kids despite actual research by Nintendo showing that the age of the average gamer is far older. More importantly, the people with the most buying power are not kids, due to the fact they have to hassle their parents to help them get said hypothetical DLC character, but rather adults due to the fact they can buy the Nintendo Eshop vouchers needed in order to redeem the code needed to fund enough points to buy the DLC on their won accord.

That was back when it was Wii U only, and all the protesters did was kill the Balloon Fight community. It wasn't even very lively after that. And then there was the outrage when Earthbound cost more then the average SNES game...

The reasons why isn't relevant, the fact that there ever was an huge outcry on Miiverse to release Earthbound for the Western VC despite the game never being popular mainstream-wise further shows that Miiverse isn't really a good source for the "casual fans" as you argue them to be.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Jealousy. People can't handle he makes a good metro.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Maybe they will use a different pose for dark pit.

Theu could use Pit's pose.

Kidding. Please don't kill me T.T

 

[Wintropy]

These are the questions science can't answer.

I never considered that. I imagine they'll just tilt the staff slightly so it occupies a different angle, as that's the only real issue here.

 

[LancerStaff]

That statement is not true. The ESA, the people who made that finding included all the major video game company like EA, Konami, Nintendo, Square Enix, Sega, Microsoft and Capcom. Those findings were the most accurate and the most comprehensive study done into the demographics of the average gamer. That finding is completely relevant to this context

Here, check out the full information:http://web.archive.org/web/20140613233445/http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2014.pdf

This is actual solid research that cannot be argued against.



More importantly, you need an NNID for Miiverse, which means not just anyone could be able to use that site, which limits that audience.


That the thing. Not everyone with a Nintendo console has their console connected to the internet considering it ain't easy enough setting the internet connection on that just anyone is able to do so.

And far from everyone uses it or is even interested in Miiverse due to the bad reputation it has among many people, which would already limit the audience over at Miiverse even further.



Because a large portion of the people who go on said forum are kids despite actual research by Nintendo showing that the age of the average gamer is far older. More importantly, the people with the most buying power are not kids, due to the fact they have to hassle their parents to help them get said hypothetical DLC character, but rather adults due to the fact they can buy the Nintendo Eshop vouchers needed in order to redeem the code needed to fund enough points to buy the DLC on their won accord.



The reasons why isn't relevant, the fact that there ever was an huge outcry on Miiverse to release Earthbound for the Western VC despite the game never being popular mainstream-wise further shows that Miiverse isn't really a good source for the "casual fans" as you argue them to be.

Might just be me being groggy, but I don't see it specifically say that the average Nintendo fan is 31. Again, that's not definitive.

A NNID takes like a minute to make, and it's required for buying eshop games/getting freebies. Almost everybody with an internet connection would have one. And other sites have a rather unique barrier: Ageism. Pretty much anybody under 13 gets picked on for one reason or another, and others won't even let you in until either 13 or 18. Miiverse doesn't discriminate.

And the bad reputation is basically one community in specific. Take a guess which. Anywhere else and the stupidity basically disappears. The KIU community is a pretty good example.

I still don't see the proof that the average Nintendo fan is 31. And you act like Eshop points cards don't exist. A kid could, yaknow, just ask for a ten dollar card on a grocery trip.

Wasn't huge. It was an incredibly slow takeover of the Balloon Fight community. There wasn't even much of a community to begin with... And it was largely the same 20 guys. One of those guys is my old KIU clan leader, even. I really doubt you were even there... And even then, that was on the month-old Wii U. Most of Nintendo's fanbase is on the 3DS. Which, in case you forgot, also has a Super Smash Bros. game.

Remember the Miis in Smash? Yeah, they were created so the people with stupid requests on Miiverse could get their way. And Sakurai brought it up again in that interview where he said that Mewtwo is almost done. So Sakurai listens to Miiverse and K. Rool is obscure to Miiverse. Ergo, Sakurai sees K. Rool as an obscure character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Might just be me being groggy, but I don't see it specifically say that the average Nintendo fan is 31. Again, that's not definitive.

It's a general research on gamers themselves. I see no reason that, considering Nintendo gamers weren't specifically outed as an exception that they wouldn't be included in said gamer catergory. Most importantly, Nintendo was part of those companies making that reseach. In that regard, this information will be relevant and used by them for future decisions when it comes to gamers. That is the most relevant.

And the bad reputation is basically one community in specific. Take a guess which. Anywhere else and the stupidity basically disappears. The KIU community is a pretty good example.

It's also the community that is the most relevant to this particular discussion.


Wasn't huge. It was an incredibly slow takeover of the Balloon Fight community. There wasn't even much of a community to begin with... And it was largely the same 20 guys. One of those guys is my old KIU clan leader, even. I really doubt you were even there... And even then, that was on the month-old Wii U. Most of Nintendo's fanbase is on the 3DS. Which, in case you forgot, also has a Super Smash Bros. game.

Remember the Miis in Smash? Yeah, they were created so the people with stupid requests on Miiverse could get their way. And Sakurai brought it up again in that interview where he said that Mewtwo is almost done. So Sakurai listens to Miiverse and K. Rool is obscure to Miiverse. Ergo, Sakurai sees K. Rool as an obscure character.

It's funny you bring up that interview considering it confirmed once and for all that Sakurai didn't exclusively listen to Miiverse as he dismissed absurd requests that came from there. More importantly, we know from established interviews that Sakurai doesn't just take into account Miiverse popularity, but popularity from other sources. He acknowledged Ridley's popularity. He acknowledged Chrom's popularity. More importantly to this discussion, he recognized that many people missed veteran characters, which shows that he doesn't solely take into account Miiverse as you yourself said that they weren't that popular over at Miiverse. Logically speaking, the popularity of the veterans must have been seen from other places.

Also the bolded argument doesn't really work. Sakurai never said anything about K. Rool one way or another and if he acknowledged Ridley's popularity despite him only having been that heavily requested in the West, then I doubt K. Rool would be seen as unpopular considering he was closer to Ridley's level of request in the West that other newcomer characters and that unlike Ridley, he was just as hugely requested over in Japan.

By the way, this is actually a pretty good debate we are having.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's a general research on gamers themselves. I see no reason that, considering Nintendo gamers weren't specifically outed as an exception that they wouldn't be included in said gamer catergory. Most importantly, Nintendo was part of those companies making that reseach. In that regard, this information will be relevant and used by them for future decisions when it comes to gamers. That is the most relevant.



It's also the community that is the most relevant to this particular discussion.


Wasn't huge. It was an incredibly slow takeover of the Balloon Fight community. There wasn't even much of a community to begin with... And it was largely the same 20 guys. One of those guys is my old KIU clan leader, even. I really doubt you were even there... And even then, that was on the month-old Wii U. Most of Nintendo's fanbase is on the 3DS. Which, in case you forgot, also has a Super Smash Bros. game.



It's funny you bring up that interview considering it confirmed once and for all that Sakurai didn't exclusively listen to Miiverse as he dismissed absurd requests that came from there. More importantly, we know from established interviews that Sakurai doesn't just take into account Miiverse popularity, but popularity from other sources. He acknowledged Ridley's popularity. He acknowledged Chrom's popularity. More importantly to this discussion, he recognized that many people missed veteran characters, which shows that he doesn't solely take into account Miiverse as you yourself said that they weren't that popular over at Miiverse. Logically speaking, the popularity of the veterans must have been seen from other places.

Also the bolded argument doesn't really work. Sakurai never said anything about K. Rool one way or another and if he acknowledged Ridley's popularity despite him only having been that heavily requested in the West, then I doubt K. Rool would be seen as unpopular considering he was closer to Ridley's level of request in the West that other newcomer characters and that unlike Ridley, he was just as hugely requested over in Japan.

By the way, this is actually a pretty good debate we are having.

How do you know Nintendo isn't bringing the average age down? It's not remotely definitive.

My point is that maybe if the older fans actually tried Miiverse, then it wouldn't so bad as it is. Especially since you claim they outnumber the kids.

He didn't dismiss the stupid requests... He made Miis for them.

Ridley was a regular topic on Miiverse. Most people saw Sakurai's "hinting to be playable" as "going to be the stage hazard" and typically lead to flame wars. Wasn't much time for Ridley's popularity to shine through since the whole "a foe from Samus's past could appear at any moment" thing came around a month after the community came out. K. Rool wasn't ever a regular topic. Palutena was before the leak, and so were Pac-Man, Chrom and Robin (with the arguments for each basically being the same as they are now), Bowser Jr. up until Rosalina's reveal, Rosalina herself, and of course Miis, all before their reveals. I really don't think you know a lick about Miiverse.

K. Rool wasn't anywhere close to Ridley's level. I'm not exaggerating when I say K. Rool supporters were ignored on Miiverse. And look, Sakurai hasn't even mentioned the guy once. Unlike Chrom and Ridley, K. Rool had no support on Miiverse. Takamaru had more support in the West, even if only because of Nintendo Land.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How do you know Nintendo isn't bringing the average age down? It's not remotely definitive.

The simplest explanation tends to be often the most correct. If Nintendo was an anomaly, it would have specifically been noted in the results collected. The fact that it didn't mean the more reasonable assumption is that Nintendo is not the exception. They have no reason why they would specifically omit any potentially important information concerning gamers considering they themselves are the one who were among the companies doing the research and its information that would be vital to them. The fact that it didn't note Nintendo gamers as an exception doesn't suggest that the results aren't remotely definite anymore that it didn't, say, specifically show the Square-Enix gamers. In fact, the more simpler explanaition and the one that makes the most sense is that no exception or specifics for particular companies are shown because this information is universal in regards to the gamers who play games made by the companies who took part in this research

He didn't dismiss the stupid requests... He made Miis for them.

He specifically called the requests made for Goku and Spongebob absurd, which are only anywhere near as commonly requested outside of Miiverse, at least not unironically. Ergo, he far from solely take Miiverse into account.

Ridley was a regular topic on Miiverse. Most people saw Sakurai's "hinting to be playable" as "going to be the stage hazard" and typically lead to flame wars. Wasn't much time for Ridley's popularity to shine through since the whole "a foe from Samus's past could appear at any moment" thing came around a month after the community came out

In the West. Over in Japan, he didn't nearly get as much requested as he did here. K. Rool was heavily requested over in Japan. So yeah, you're right. K. Rool isn't "anywhere near close" to the level of a character that is only popular in the West

And really, whilst no site is the be-all end all representative of the general fanbase, Miiverse is far from an exception. The average yeahs that Sakurai's Daily Miiverse posts got (at least the ones made within the last couple of months. The earlier ones doesn't seem to have any yeahs. There always was a even lower amount of posts being made for each Pic of the Day, somewhere around a thousand or two at most) were around 9000-20000 in English-translated posts (which are the same for both the region of Europe and Americas, regardless of language used). The yeahs for the Japanese region in terms of Sakurai's Miiverse post averaged around 1000-3000 with even less discussion posts made for each Pic of the Day. In contrast, over 2 million fans watch the 50-Fact Extravaganza. Even being lenient towards the estimate of the number of people who uses Miiverse, the raw numbers wouldn't even remotely crack one-tenth of the general fanbase who watch the video, to say the least. Sure, the numbers of people with a Miiverse account shown going to the Pics of the Day and showing interest may not be the be-all end all but if they were truly that big as you say there are, the average number of people shown having interest in the Pics of the Day via discussions and yeahs should easily reach within the 100s of thousands, at least around 400-500k if it really is such a bigger and more reliable source of the general fanbase.

Ironically enough, it's not really that representative of the general fanbase precisely because of the cut veterans you said would drop like stones in terms of Miiverse polls when Sakurai himself acknowledged the veterans had their set of fans which were clearly notable and big enough for him to be concerned about and to see their inclusions as "good for the fans."Them being incredibly lowly requested on Miiverse doesn't mean much for Sakurai which proves further that Miiverse isn't some huge be-all end all of Sakurai's observation on Smash popularity.

Oh and for the record, Roy isn't unpopular as a Lord within the overall FE fanbase, but among the Western FE fanbase.
Over in Japan, Roy ranked first in an official FE6 poll. And it's not as if his game was even unpopular over in Japan, being highly ranked and among the higher selling ones over in Japan. Doesn't prove that Roy is some sort of SUPER DUPER popular character over there, but merely that, considering Smash is a game made in Japan with Japanese popularity being more prioritised, Roy's lack of FE popularity would have had nothing to do with his exclusion.

 

[LancerStaff]

The simplest explanation tends to be often the most correct. If Nintendo was an anomaly, it would have specifically been noted in the results collected. The fact that it didn't mean the more reasonable assumption is that Nintendo is not the exception. They have no reason why they would specifically omit any potentially important information concerning gamers considering they themselves are the one who were among the companies doing the research and its information that would be vital to them. The fact that it didn't note Nintendo gamers as an exception doesn't suggest that the results aren't remotely definite anymore that it didn't, say, specifically show the Square-Enix gamers. In fact, the more simpler explanaition and the one that makes the most sense is that no exception or specifics for particular companies are shown because this information is universal in regards to the gamers who play games made by the companies who took part in this research



He specifically called the requests made for Goku and Spongebob absurd, which are only anywhere near as commonly requested outside of Miiverse, at least not unironically. Ergo, he far from solely take Miiverse into account.



In the West. Over in Japan, he didn't nearly get as much requested as he did here. K. Rool was heavily requested over in Japan. So yeah, you're right. K. Rool isn't "anywhere near close" to the level of a character that is only popular in the West

And really, whilst no site is the be-all end all representative of the general fanbase, Miiverse is far from an exception. The average yeahs that Sakurai's Daily Miiverse posts got (at least the ones made within the last couple of months. The earlier ones doesn't seem to have any yeahs. There always was a even lower amount of posts being made for each Pic of the Day, somewhere around a thousand or two at most) were around 9000-20000 in English-translated posts (which are the same for both the region of Europe and Americas, regardless of language used). The yeahs for the Japanese region in terms of Sakurai's Miiverse post averaged around 1000-3000 with even less discussion posts made for each Pic of the Day. In contrast, over 2 million fans watch the 50-Fact Extravaganza. Even being lenient towards the estimate of the number of people who uses Miiverse, the raw numbers wouldn't even remotely crack one-tenth of the general fanbase who watch the video, to say the least. Sure, the numbers of people with a Miiverse account shown going to the Pics of the Day and showing interest may not be the be-all end all but if they were truly that big as you say there are, the average number of people shown having interest in the Pics of the Day via discussions and yeahs should easily reach within the 100s of thousands, at least around 400-500k if it really is such a bigger and more reliable source of the general fanbase.

Ironically enough, it's not really that representative of the general fanbase precisely because of the cut veterans you said would drop like stones in terms of Miiverse polls when Sakurai himself acknowledged the veterans had their set of fans which were clearly notable and big enough for him to be concerned about and to see their inclusions as "good for the fans."Them being incredibly lowly requested on Miiverse doesn't mean much for Sakurai which proves further that Miiverse isn't some huge be-all end all of Sakurai's observation on Smash popularity.

Oh and for the record, Roy isn't unpopular as a Lord within the overall FE fanbase, but among the Western FE fanbase.
Over in Japan, Roy ranked first in an official FE6 poll. And it's not as if his game was even unpopular over in Japan, being highly ranked and among the higher selling ones over in Japan. Doesn't prove that Roy is some sort of SUPER DUPER popular character over there, but merely that, considering Smash is a game made in Japan with Japanese popularity being more prioritised, Roy's lack of FE popularity would have had nothing to do with his exclusion.

Often. Not always. All I'm asking for is something definitive.

Most, if not all, were troll responses. Pretty sure Sakurai can tell the difference.

As somebody who checked the PotD religiously, I also spent time just browsing around Miiverse waiting for the pic. First thing I'd do is check the Japanese popular posts. Never saw one picture of K. Rool and I'd check at least once a week. I'd see most characters that I'd see in the US minus Ridley and plus Daisy.

Yeahs =/= views, and comments cap at a little over 1000. The requirements for watching the video aren't as strict as making a MV account, and the PotD is a daily thing. Usually with something minor. Of course more people will show up for the big Wii U features reveal. How many of those people who watched the video even got the Wii U game, anyway?

Sakurai brings back characters because it's much easier then making completely new ones, and it actively disappoints fans. But obviously he didn't think Lucas and Wolf, relative zeros, were more valuable then newcomers like Rosalina and Robin, who were actively discussed and requested.

 

[Khao]

Obviously:

There is no other way.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

It's little more than salt at this point in time. Most people in this fandom are complaining for every single thing that they wanted didn't make it in or didn't want make it in, and it happens to be a lot of people in this case. Obviously not everyone does this and have more important things in their lives to vent over than something in a mass produced electronic toy.

 

[DittoMaster6]

The problem, at least how I see it, is that he isn't necessarily a clone, but he's a waste of potential. There are dozens of weapons in Kid Icarus Uprising, and Dark Pit has shown prowess with the Dark Pit Staff, the EZ Cannon, the Ogre Club, the Violet Palm, and the Silver Bow. With some creativity, you could make a unique moveset out of that alone, not even mentioning the variety of other weapons in the game. But him being a clone of Pit is a missed opportunity. Dr. Mario plays more like Melee Mario now, so he has some differences. Lucina, while I haven't played Fire Emblem, allows for a more aggressive play-style with Marth. Dark Pit...... Eh.... They got rid of his Upperdash Arm, which was a good killing move for Pit, and got rid of the utility of Palutena's Bow, making him a border-line downgrade to Pit. Not to mention, his Final Smash is just a clone of Zelda/Sheik's Final Smash. That's like the Ganondorf of Final Smashes: Take a character with plenty of potential for a unique Final Smash, and base the Final Smash off that of a character completely unrelated to what character you're making a Final Smash for.

I know the fact Dark Pit was intended to be an alternate costume for Pit, I know he was made separate for subtle differences from Pit, but I just can't help but feel disappointed by the lack of potential used for Dark Pit's moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

It would be weird for Dark Pit to have Pits amiibo Pose because hes the bad guy and cant have the good guy type of pose...

 

[JapanGuy]

They will obviously have to scale it down so that it will fit.

 

[JapanGuy]

It would be weird for Dark Pit to have Pits amiibo Pose because hes the bad guy and cant have the good guy type of pose...

This is the pose he will have.

 

[Deleted member]

This is the pose he will have.

Yes that Is good cause I couldnt imagine Dark pit with pits amiibo pose.

 

[JapanGuy]

Yes that Is good cause I couldnt imagine Dark pit with pits amiibo pose.

Why would he have Pit's Smash 4 pose anyway?

 

[Deleted member]

Why would he have Pit's Smash 4 pose anyway?

Idk other people posted above about the Idea of him having Pits pose

 

[JapanGuy]

Well that's stupid. They must not have grasped the idea that all amiibo have the same pose as their character selection pose.

 

[Kibzu~]

Your calls have been heard

-https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/detail/Qugs-NzWTCr5tWVR4zyhoGiLOzdlrn0v

 

[AnchorTea]

Your calls have been heard

-https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/detail/Qugs-NzWTCr5tWVR4zyhoGiLOzdlrn0v

Now we see if the Staff has been nerfed in size or Dark Pit himself.

 

[Khao]

The "barrel" seems to be slightly shorter, and I don't think it's because of the perspective. Everything else is properly scaled, though.

 

[Pittoo~]

Your calls have been heard

-https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/detail/Qugs-NzWTCr5tWVR4zyhoGiLOzdlrn0v

O.O Now I just need to convience my brother to buy me that for my birthday in july... or my sister... or my parents....
I need that, now.....

 

[Pittoo~]

I'm actually not very disappointed. Clones don't bother me and this shows Sakarui can actually stay true to characters as Dark Pit is Pit's clone in Kid Icarus Uprising. And everyone he does use the Dark Pit staff for his final smash, Duh! Plus, he rarely uses it in game so what's the point? He usually uses the silver bow and look, he uses the silver bow in this game...
It's just Nintendo Logic.

 

[Pittoo~]

What type of move set would you give Dark Pit if he wasn't a clone?
I'd make his default attacks use the Dark Pit Staff instead of the Silver Bow.
His Neutral B could still be the same though.

His Up B could be Pit's in Brawl. Dark Pit can fly on his own in Uprising after all.

His Side B could use the Ogre Club he used in chapter 6 of Uprising. Press the button and Dark Pit will swing the Ogre Club to do decent damage and knockback. Hold the button and Dark Pit will charge an attack with it. When the attack if fully charged he will shoot a short ranged projectile, just like when you use a club in Uprising.

His Down B could still be the Guardian Orbiters.

For his Final Smash Dark Pit could fly to the top of the stage, from there when you use an attack Dark Pit would fire shots in the direction you aim. If you pause between shots for a moment the next shot Dark Pit will fire will be a charged shot.

Woah, you can't just take out the silver bow and replace it with his staff! 1. he already uses staff for a final smash but that's besides the point.
If you've seen or played the actual game, you'd understand quite clearly. Dark Pit uses the Silver Bow often and rarely (I actually think never) uses the Dark Pit staff even though it shares his name. and for the final smash idea, I like it but doesn't it seem awfully familiar, Yoshi even though the fire comes from his mouth it's pretty similar, or it's just me...

 

[Pittoo~]

He didn't get poster or a trailer.. but are you so sure about the trailer part? Think about it, why waste money on two seprate trailers for people in the same franchise? Of course, no one would. So Palutena's and Dark Pit's trailer was made into one as you can see and same with Lucina and Robin's. Who cares if he has no poster? Link has no 'main' poster either for Super Smash bros and no one is going around saying he's less great for that.

 

[Maikou]

Woah, you can't just take out the silver bow and replace it with his staff! 1. he already uses staff for a final smash but that's besides the point.
If you've seen or played the actual game, you'd understand quite clearly. Dark Pit uses the Silver Bow often and rarely (I actually think never) uses the Dark Pit staff even though it shares his name. and for the final smash idea, I like it but doesn't it seem awfully familiar, Yoshi even though the fire comes from his mouth it's pretty similar, or it's just me...

Dark Pit uses the staff in one possible portion of Chapter 6 where he attempts to snipe you. He can also use the Dark Pit staff in Chapter 5 if that's what you have equipped, and the same can be said of Chapter 22.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Give him the Staff for His neutral B, max it like Greninja;s neutral B where you have to stand in place and charge it to fire, copy-paste R.O.B's Laser animations onto it and tint them purple
Mix in Shulk's A's Moves without the extra range
The Damaging ^B and as his default one, customs give it fire and lightning elements
Replace Electroshock Arm with Pandora Claws so it hits twice but does the same thing
Replace Final Smash with The Lightning Chariot, Basically Dragoon with Twice the Range
If you pause as he's hitting someone he is clearly giving them the "Loser" sign on his forehead
vB Gemini Orbiters, Fires 3 shots in front and behind him that will mess up the opponent in some way, Flowers, Flipping, Tripping