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Bandana Dee, the Spear Master! (v(- ' ' -)>↑ ~ Dee wait is killing us...

Do you want Bandana Dee in SSB4?


  • Total voters
    1,315

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
You could say the same for Game and Watch. His smash attacks have literally no lag. If you just decide to go pick Rosalina and think you're going to win, you're going to be quite surprised with the outcome.
Honestly, Rosalina and Roy are the only options I have. All three Marios lose to Game & Watch (especially now that Luigi can't kill him at 50%), Jigglypuff loses pretty badly due to G&W being small, fast and impossible to Rest, and Falco loses because chances are he'll lose all of his stocks before he can even take one off. If I didn't pick Rosalina, you'd probably be thrashing me left and right, or at least giving me even more a fight.
He's bottom 3 in Smash Attack speed actually. They are rather low in endlag (except fsmash), so there's that. He's surprisingly l laggy in his other moves, especially compared to Brawl G&W.

Maybe I just picked her up fast, but she's not really that hard to pick up and win with (even if mastering her is another story). She's incredibly safe and Luma is mad strong (I got killed by their dair at 61% even though I was next to the ledge).
 

Furret24

Smash Master
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Feb 28, 2015
Messages
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I know she isn't the most reliable person buttttttt our chances may e looking up as it eliminates 2 of the highest contenders (K.Rool and Isaac

https://twitter.com/nwplayer123/status/655619900388433920

It may be Inkling still :T
"She lost all credability, don't beleive a word she says unless its data mine related. At this point someone should just go on twitter and say that Stealth and the crew said the character is Wolf. The worst part is most of the guys in the leaks thread are kind of buying into these things. I say they're all lying.
EDIT: She's claiming the characters is Monita.:facepalm: Lost all credibility 100% confirmed."

Found this on the Wolf thread.

Well darn, I doubleposted. :/

 
Last edited:

MarioMeteor

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He's bottom 3 in Smash Attack speed actually. They are rather low in endlag (except fsmash), so there's that. He's surprisingly l laggy in his other moves, especially compared to Brawl G&W.

Maybe I just picked her up fast, but she's not really that hard to pick up and win with (even if mastering her is another story). She's incredibly safe and Luma is mad strong (I got killed by their dair at 61% even though I was next to the ledge).
I meant ending lag. They have even less than Mario's.
I'm not going to lie, Luma's down air is borderline broken. The only thing that keeps it from being so is that you need to sweetspot it. Also, Rosalina isn't really all the safe. You have to commit to a lot of Rosalina's moves, except maybe jab and neutral air.
 

Chandeelure

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Logo12

Smash Lord
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Just confirming I'm not dead yet, but the lack of stuff happening makes me less interested in posting... in the Internet as a whole.

It's time for, "NINTEN'S CHARACTER PREDICTION LIST"

@M.P., I'm sorry but I think we'll be getting at least one third-party, but the character I predicted is as Nintendo as third-party gets, and he's popular in your country in particular.

I've also disregarded any rumors, so yeah, without further ado, here's the list!

Wolf
Bandana Dee
Dixie (Or K. Rool)
Paper Mario
Issac
Layton
You know, that 6-character is also a rumor/inspection/illuminati-confirmed thing. I don't think everyone should really jump the gun already and discuss on which 6 characters are getting added.

[let me take down each pro-Bandanna Dee argument and suggest alternate votes

"He's Cute" so are Rick, Tails and Dixie Kong e.t.c.

"More Kirby Reps" to be honest, we don't need more Kirby characters other than the initial trio, but we do have Rick, Adeleine, Gooey, Galatica Knight, e.t.c.

"He has a spear" yes, nobody else in Smash has a Spear, but do we need one? there's nothing unique a spear can bring to the table that a staff can't, and while I hate this character as well, I'd much rather you support Krystal because at least she COULD have a unique moveset

"He's relevant, unlike Rick or Gooey!" has relevancy ever been an issue in Smash? in 64, we got Ness, Samus and Captain Falcon then in Melee, we got Ice Climbers, Marth and Mr. Game and Watch, then in Brawl we got R.O.B. and Pit, then in 3DS and Wii U we got Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt Duo and Wii Fit Trainer

"Look at this moveset I made!" it's as bland as a Fire Emblem character, thank you.

"He's different from other Waddle Dees!" what even is this argument? BECAUSE WADDLE DEES ARE SO UNIQUE.

"He was in Kirby Return to Dreamland!" yeah, and Kiddy Kong was in DKC 3. you don't see people going down the street askin' for Kiddy Kong, who has almost the same role as Bandanna Dee.

TL;DR Bandana Dee is the Kirby equivalent of Kiddy Kong
The fundamental error on this whole argument is, they are picking up arguments that makes "one like Bandana Dee", not making "Bandana Dee deserving* to get in".

The second fundamental error on this argument is, yes, you can think of alternatives for a criterion*, but
  1. Is the mentioned characters superior in the category?
  2. Is the mentioned characters also fitting other criterion*?
Because for the first one, the whole argument would just have fallen down. And for the second one, that's the whole point of wanting/liking a character. You don't just like a character for one thing, but more of them. Say, true, the choices might just have been better option in comparison, but that doesn't make one want a character less.

The whole argument for Smash about who "deserves" or not, fits a fan-made "criterion" or not are just plain stupid. Under the common use of a community conflicting with different definitions of the two starred words, they are essentially meaningless. I don't really think you need a counterargument, since they're just dissing character for the sake of doing it. For the sake of making their character more superior. But most of the time, they can actually be used otherwise.

I'm just here, posting pointless things, since... There's nothing else I can do.

But anyways, to the specific points:

  • "Cute" is a very subjective idea, just as subjective as the "deserve" and "better" when it comes to choosing things, plus the fact that this isn't even a pro-Smash argument. Skipping.
  • "More Kirby Reps" sure, doesn't need* more, doesn't hurt if it gets either. This essentially makes no point, but so are the "More DK/Metroid/F-Zero (insert under-represented*, or even, over-represented* series here) reps", depends on what you really think. Sakurai didn't make these rules, fans did. Again the "suggested alternate choice" are clearly just pulled out randomly, just for the sake of, disliking the character, with massive bias.
  • "Has a spear" What can a spear do a staff can't? Throw it of course! But point aside, arbitrary weapon requirements are just another fan=made rule. But saying a weapon is superior to another so the latter doesn't deserve to be represented is a really dumb, another made-up-for-the-sake-of-bias derivative of the rule. Gun and Sword has more functionality and practicality than Bare hands! Brawlers shouldn't exist. There's nothing Mario can do Star Mario cannot do! Replace Mario with Star Mario. Yay arguments.
  • "Relevant" again another fan-made rule, but notice that out of the things he listed, only Mr Game and Watch, ROB, and Duck Hunt are the "non-relevant" characters. They're added because of retro status, which shows that the arguer is basically all black-and-white on this point and try to grasp straws, but anyway, Wii Fit Trainer is added not because of 3DS, and he apparently used some wording trick.
  • "Boring Moveset" Oh come again, I don't really find Bowser, Pikachu, Yoshi etc having an interesting moveset. This again is a fan-made rule, but yeah. Same can essentially be applied to every character suggested.
  • "He's different from other Waddle Dees" The arguer apparently have no idea what argument this is and fails trying to counter it. This is a counterargument against the "he is a generic enemy" point, not directly an argument to make one in Smash. Because oh, Bowser is the king of the koopas! Koopas aren't unique! Bowser shouldn't be in Smash!
  • "His presence in a game is equivalent to Kiddy Kong in DKC3" The arguer again apparently has no knowledge on significance* and the basic knowledge of set theory. With his argument, I can say "Diddy Kong is in DKC3, so BDee is the Diddy Kong in Kirby!", because he's obviously cherry-picking a bad example just to make Bandana Dee look bad. Again making up stuff for the sake of bias.
Anyway, rant end, I hope you all just move on and ignore that post, because
  1. Arguer apparently has heavy bias against Dee, and arguing against does nothing at all.
  2. There's no longer a point to argue, since we just want Bandana Dee because we love the character, not because he has those criteria. These are just stickers on a package and are meaningless and misleading. The "under-represented", "over-represented", "significant" and those italicized words are again just marketing tricks, whether you hold up a pro or against campaign on a character, there's no true, consensual meaning on those words.
    It's all like how "sizable" is just a more beautiful, more positive word for "small", and "ballot has no anti-votes" are just a denial of "my character is hated".
I'm going to sleep now.
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
I meant ending lag. They have even less than Mario's.
I'm not going to lie, Luma's down air is borderline broken. The only thing that keeps it from being so is that you need to sweetspot it. Also, Rosalina isn't really all the safe. You have to commit to a lot of Rosalina's moves, except maybe jab and neutral air.
Down and Up Smash may have little endlag, but they are ridiculously slow in start-up and very unsafe on shield. All of his specials have stupid amounts of lag (except Up Special), his dtilt has 29 frames of endlag, his aerials all have a good amounts of landing lag (especially dair). For a character that's very prone to dying below 80%, this is a major issue.

With the exception of fsmash (Frame 16), fair (Frame 11), and dair (Frame 17), every single one of Rosalina's standard moves starts before Frame 10 (15/18 moves, which is even more than Sheik). Compare that Game and Watch, who only has 5 that start before Frame 10.
 

AnonymousMoon

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Just confirming I'm not dead yet, but the lack of stuff happening makes me less interested in posting... in the Internet as a whole.


You know, that 6-character is also a rumor/inspection/illuminati-confirmed thing. I don't think everyone should really jump the gun already and discuss on which 6 characters are getting added.


The fundamental error on this whole argument is, they are picking up arguments that makes "one like Bandana Dee", not making "Bandana Dee deserving* to get in".

The second fundamental error on this argument is, yes, you can think of alternatives for a criterion*, but
  1. Is the mentioned characters superior in the category?
  2. Is the mentioned characters also fitting other criterion*?
Because for the first one, the whole argument would just have fallen down. And for the second one, that's the whole point of wanting/liking a character. You don't just like a character for one thing, but more of them. Say, true, the choices might just have been better option in comparison, but that doesn't make one want a character less.

The whole argument for Smash about who "deserves" or not, fits a fan-made "criterion" or not are just plain stupid. Under the common use of a community conflicting with different definitions of the two starred words, they are essentially meaningless. I don't really think you need a counterargument, since they're just dissing character for the sake of doing it. For the sake of making their character more superior. But most of the time, they can actually be used otherwise.

I'm just here, posting pointless things, since... There's nothing else I can do.

But anyways, to the specific points:

  • "Cute" is a very subjective idea, just as subjective as the "deserve" and "better" when it comes to choosing things, plus the fact that this isn't even a pro-Smash argument. Skipping.
  • "More Kirby Reps" sure, doesn't need* more, doesn't hurt if it gets either. This essentially makes no point, but so are the "More DK/Metroid/F-Zero (insert under-represented*, or even, over-represented* series here) reps", depends on what you really think. Sakurai didn't make these rules, fans did. Again the "suggested alternate choice" are clearly just pulled out randomly, just for the sake of, disliking the character, with massive bias.
  • "Has a spear" What can a spear do a staff can't? Throw it of course! But point aside, arbitrary weapon requirements are just another fan=made rule. But saying a weapon is superior to another so the latter doesn't deserve to be represented is a really dumb, another made-up-for-the-sake-of-bias derivative of the rule. Gun and Sword has more functionality and practicality than Bare hands! Brawlers shouldn't exist. There's nothing Mario can do Star Mario cannot do! Replace Mario with Star Mario. Yay arguments.
  • "Relevant" again another fan-made rule, but notice that out of the things he listed, only Mr Game and Watch, ROB, and Duck Hunt are the "non-relevant" characters. They're added because of retro status, which shows that the arguer is basically all black-and-white on this point and try to grasp straws, but anyway, Wii Fit Trainer is added not because of 3DS, and he apparently used some wording trick.
  • "Boring Moveset" Oh come again, I don't really find Bowser, Pikachu, Yoshi etc having an interesting moveset. This again is a fan-made rule, but yeah. Same can essentially be applied to every character suggested.
  • "He's different from other Waddle Dees" The arguer apparently have no idea what argument this is and fails trying to counter it. This is a counterargument against the "he is a generic enemy" point, not directly an argument to make one in Smash. Because oh, Bowser is the king of the koopas! Koopas aren't unique! Bowser shouldn't be in Smash!
  • "His presence in a game is equivalent to Kiddy Kong in DKC3" The arguer again apparently has no knowledge on significance* and the basic knowledge of set theory. With his argument, I can say "Diddy Kong is in DKC3, so BDee is the Diddy Kong in Kirby!", because he's obviously cherry-picking a bad example just to make Bandana Dee look bad. Again making up stuff for the sake of bias.
Anyway, rant end, I hope you all just move on and ignore that post, because
  1. Arguer apparently has heavy bias against Dee, and arguing against does nothing at all.
  2. There's no longer a point to argue, since we just want Bandana Dee because we love the character, not because he has those criteria. These are just stickers on a package and are meaningless and misleading. The "under-represented", "over-represented", "significant" and those italicized words are again just marketing tricks, whether you hold up a pro or against campaign on a character, there's no true, consensual meaning on those words.
    It's all like how "sizable" is just a more beautiful, more positive word for "small", and "ballot has no anti-votes" are just a denial of "my character is hated".
I'm going to sleep now.
If I ever get framed for murder, I want you be my lawyer
 

NintenZ

Smash Legend
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Nowhere important
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That's Ness.
Their designs are identical (Do not bring up the neckerchief, as that was from a live-action commercial and later fans used this to differentiate him from Ness) and any similarities they have are merely due to artistic approach, not to mention in an interview, Itoi confirmed that they were the same character (Sort of, it's up to you to decide if they're the same character but still it counts) and were designed identical for the sake of letting the player decide if they were the same.
 

MarioMeteor

Smash Hero
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If I ever get framed for murder, I want you be my lawyer
You have good taste in profile pics.
Down and Up Smash may have little endlag, but they are ridiculously slow in start-up and very unsafe on shield. All of his specials have stupid amounts of lag (except Up Special), his dtilt has 29 frames of endlag, his aerials all have a good amounts of landing lag (especially dair). For a character that's very prone to dying below 80%, this is a major issue.

With the exception of fsmash (Frame 16), fair (Frame 11), and dair (Frame 17), every single one of Rosalina's standard moves starts before Frame 10 (15/18 moves, which is even more than Sheik). Compare that Game and Watch, who only has 5 that start before Frame 10.
Again, you have to factor in ending and landing lag. You can have the best frame data in the world, but that doesn't mean your moves are safe. Look at Falco, his frame data is nothing to sneeze at, but almost none of his moves are safe, especially not on shield, which is part of the reason why he is the way he is. Rosalina may have decent frame data, but without Luma, she doesn't have the range, speed, or shield pressure necessary for her moves to be safe.
 

AnonymousMoon

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That would've been cool if this thread and the K. Rool thread just put "Bandana Dee & King K. Rool" on each vote-slip so they'd be more inclined to include both. It would've been the most diabolical thing ever done! Muhuhahahahaha
 

NintenZ

Smash Legend
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Just confirming I'm not dead yet, but the lack of stuff happening makes me less interested in posting... in the Internet as a whole.


You know, that 6-character is also a rumor/inspection/illuminati-confirmed thing. I don't think everyone should really jump the gun already and discuss on which 6 characters are getting added.


The fundamental error on this whole argument is, they are picking up arguments that makes "one like Bandana Dee", not making "Bandana Dee deserving* to get in".

The second fundamental error on this argument is, yes, you can think of alternatives for a criterion*, but
  1. Is the mentioned characters superior in the category?
  2. Is the mentioned characters also fitting other criterion*?
Because for the first one, the whole argument would just have fallen down. And for the second one, that's the whole point of wanting/liking a character. You don't just like a character for one thing, but more of them. Say, true, the choices might just have been better option in comparison, but that doesn't make one want a character less.

The whole argument for Smash about who "deserves" or not, fits a fan-made "criterion" or not are just plain stupid. Under the common use of a community conflicting with different definitions of the two starred words, they are essentially meaningless. I don't really think you need a counterargument, since they're just dissing character for the sake of doing it. For the sake of making their character more superior. But most of the time, they can actually be used otherwise.

I'm just here, posting pointless things, since... There's nothing else I can do.

But anyways, to the specific points:

  • "Cute" is a very subjective idea, just as subjective as the "deserve" and "better" when it comes to choosing things, plus the fact that this isn't even a pro-Smash argument. Skipping.
  • "More Kirby Reps" sure, doesn't need* more, doesn't hurt if it gets either. This essentially makes no point, but so are the "More DK/Metroid/F-Zero (insert under-represented*, or even, over-represented* series here) reps", depends on what you really think. Sakurai didn't make these rules, fans did. Again the "suggested alternate choice" are clearly just pulled out randomly, just for the sake of, disliking the character, with massive bias.
  • "Has a spear" What can a spear do a staff can't? Throw it of course! But point aside, arbitrary weapon requirements are just another fan=made rule. But saying a weapon is superior to another so the latter doesn't deserve to be represented is a really dumb, another made-up-for-the-sake-of-bias derivative of the rule. Gun and Sword has more functionality and practicality than Bare hands! Brawlers shouldn't exist. There's nothing Mario can do Star Mario cannot do! Replace Mario with Star Mario. Yay arguments.
  • "Relevant" again another fan-made rule, but notice that out of the things he listed, only Mr Game and Watch, ROB, and Duck Hunt are the "non-relevant" characters. They're added because of retro status, which shows that the arguer is basically all black-and-white on this point and try to grasp straws, but anyway, Wii Fit Trainer is added not because of 3DS, and he apparently used some wording trick.
  • "Boring Moveset" Oh come again, I don't really find Bowser, Pikachu, Yoshi etc having an interesting moveset. This again is a fan-made rule, but yeah. Same can essentially be applied to every character suggested.
  • "He's different from other Waddle Dees" The arguer apparently have no idea what argument this is and fails trying to counter it. This is a counterargument against the "he is a generic enemy" point, not directly an argument to make one in Smash. Because oh, Bowser is the king of the koopas! Koopas aren't unique! Bowser shouldn't be in Smash!
  • "His presence in a game is equivalent to Kiddy Kong in DKC3" The arguer again apparently has no knowledge on significance* and the basic knowledge of set theory. With his argument, I can say "Diddy Kong is in DKC3, so BDee is the Diddy Kong in Kirby!", because he's obviously cherry-picking a bad example just to make Bandana Dee look bad. Again making up stuff for the sake of bias.
Anyway, rant end, I hope you all just move on and ignore that post, because
  1. Arguer apparently has heavy bias against Dee, and arguing against does nothing at all.
  2. There's no longer a point to argue, since we just want Bandana Dee because we love the character, not because he has those criteria. These are just stickers on a package and are meaningless and misleading. The "under-represented", "over-represented", "significant" and those italicized words are again just marketing tricks, whether you hold up a pro or against campaign on a character, there's no true, consensual meaning on those words.
    It's all like how "sizable" is just a more beautiful, more positive word for "small", and "ballot has no anti-votes" are just a denial of "my character is hated".
I'm going to sleep now.
Actually, the difference between this and other things is that this was found through in-game evidence.
 

Haydossy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
465
I just noticed all the characters I mentioned were in your sig, bias much?



But Prince Richard is Prince of Sable's rival...
Prince of Sable isn't what he's referred to as in the game, though. You get to name him in the game itself, so he doesn't have an official first name.

Why are we talking about this in the Bandana Dee Thread
 
Last edited:

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
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If you guys could change one (and only one) thing about the Kirby series, what would it be, and why?
It's own lack of press coverage and/or prestige, if we got anywhere near the amount of coverage and were treated even close to as seriously as other franchises our size, Kirby would have more than 3 reps, I can almost guarantee that. Also, off topic, but, nice profile picture.




 
Last edited:

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
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I apologize in advance if this is a bit off topic and that it's been asked a million times before but since speculation is always changing, I feel like it still warrants being asked. How likely do you guys think Bandana Dee is? I feel like he's got so many things going for him, but a few hurdles to overcome that may hinder him, and you have to factor in his competition too, so with all that in mind I'm thinking that 40-30% seems right?
 

Burruni

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I apologize in advance if this is a bit off topic and that it's been asked a million times before but since speculation is always changing, I feel like it still warrants being asked. How likely do you guys think Bandana Dee is? I feel like he's got so many things going for him, but a few hurdles to overcome that may hinder him, and you have to factor in his competition too, so with all that in mind I'm thinking that 40-30% seems right?
Wolf is a 90%
K. Rool a good 70%.
Dee and Isaac at 50%.
 

Chandeelure

Bandana Brigade Captain
Joined
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Messages
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Location
(v(- ' ' -)>↑
I apologize in advance if this is a bit off topic and that it's been asked a million times before but since speculation is always changing, I feel like it still warrants being asked. How likely do you guys think Bandana Dee is? I feel like he's got so many things going for him, but a few hurdles to overcome that may hinder him, and you have to factor in his competition too, so with all that in mind I'm thinking that 40-30% seems right?
Inkling: 60%
Wolf: 60%
K.Rool: 55%
Bandana Dee: 50%
Shovel Knight: 40%
Dixie Kong: 30%
Isaac: 20%
Shantae: 1%
 

AndreaAC

Ridley's Propaganda Artist
Joined
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Messages
24,550
I don't think it will be that long anymore. Things have changed since the days of Melee, where DLC and other things can make the wait take less time. But, who knows.
I think the Wii U is nearly dying, so, well, they could keep using Smash 4 and DLC for the NX, or do Smash5 and the DLC. But, yeah, who knows?
 

SuperSegaSonicSS

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I think the Wii U is nearly dying, so, well, they could keep using Smash 4 and DLC for the NX, or do Smash5 and the DLC. But, yeah, who knows?
That's what I meant. It going to take less time, BECAUSE of the NX. It's coming within 2-3 years, so, it's going to just move on after this year.
 

Logo12

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If I ever get framed for murder, I want you be my lawyer
Lol Please don't. I like spending long time writing arguments and that's it. I can't survive in a live debate :L
Actually, the difference between this and other things is that this was found through in-game evidence.
Nope, it's just inspection. The game did not yell "I can still hold six more slots" , it was all concluded by rearranging the CSS. And as it matches the six available spaces in Wii u, people say as if this is a proven thing.
 

Tortilla Noggin

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Messages
20,726
Nope, it's just inspection. The game did not yell "I can still hold six more slots" , it was all concluded by rearranging the CSS. And as it matches the six available spaces in Wii u, people say as if this is a proven thing.
Precisely. It's merely an interesting thing because it generates some "What if?"-type discussion to pass the time. ;)
 
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