BBR Weekly Character Discussion #34: Zelda

[Darkmusician]

This is getting silly.

Anyway, I think Zelda's not as bad as people make her out to be.

Her moves in themselves are okay. Except maybe fair. People wah on about SDI'ing Up-smash, but it like, never happens. lol

Bottom tier? Probably. Definitely not worse than Link or Ganon though.

Your post makes no sense. You think that Zelda's not as bad as people make her out to be and then you say she's probably bottom tier.

 

[MrEh]

Her moves in themselves are okay. Except maybe fair

Yeah. Fair is terrible and her other moves aren't.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Your post makes no sense. You think that Zelda's not as bad as people make her out to be and then you say she's probably bottom tier.

Mmm yeah. That's what I said.

I was mostly refering to the people who thinks she's so totally awful that Ganondorf/Ivysaur/whatever are leagues ahead of her etc and so forth.

Yeah. Fair is terrible and her other moves aren't.

Yes.

 

[Fuujin]

I personally think she's second worse in the game. She only has 2 or 3 good match ups in the game and ROB definitely isn't one of them. The only reason I manage to do well against some people is due to their lack of match up experience.

You could put her with Sheik but in terms of match ups it would basically be Sheik the entire time with Zelda as the occasional kill move and for the Pikachu and Ice Climbers match up.
Like Mars said I'm not seeing how that would really help Sheik any.

I want all Zelda mains who have managed to do well against higher tiered characters in matches to honestly look back and think of how poorly their opponent played that match up as opposed to Zelda's potential.

When someone knows to cancel out Din's with an aerial, sdi her side smash, punish her recovery and exploit her other weaknesses it makes her pretty terrible.

Only things that keep her above Ganons level are the facts that she's immune to most chain grabs and that she has an OOS option. I guess you can throw in the ****ty projectile and projectile reflector.

 

[MrEh]

Mmm yeah. That's what I said.

And that still doesn't make sense.

You say that Zelda is underrated, yet you also say that Zelda is bottom tier. Zelda is currently at the top of bottom tier, so you believe that Zelda deserves to rise...higher? She can't rise any higher in her current tier. That's why your post doesn't make sense.


Also, no one believes that Ganon is better then Zelda. Ganon is the undisputed worst character in the game. As for Ivysaur, here is no "Ivysaur" on the tier list: only Pokemon Trainer. It doesn't matter if Ivysaur is a worse character then Zelda when Pokemon Trainer is better.

Yes.

Anyone who doesn't think that Zelda's moveset is terrible needs to play the game more.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Mmmkay.

Just forget I said anything.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda should be separate from shiek. they are totally different from each other and you can play an entire match with her(like you can with ZS). With PT u cant.

But it's possible to play both of them in the same matchup, AND it's possible to switch at the the begining of the match to give yourself a better matchup.

It's very poor logic to say: you can play them separately so they shouldn't be listed together. All that that argument says is "you can play them separately so they should be listed individually AND together on the teir list."

But, seriously, Zelda/Sheik have access to each others movesets. To not make use of that when you need to is to unnecessarily limit yourself. It'd be like using metaknight and never pressing the B-button.

 

[Fuujin]

But it's possible to play both of them in the same matchup, AND it's possible to switch at the the begining of the match to give yourself a better matchup.

It's very poor logic to say: you can play them separately so they shouldn't be listed together. All that that argument says is "you can play them separately so they should be listed individually AND together on the teir list."

But, seriously, Zelda/Sheik have access to each others movesets. To not make use of that when you need to is to unnecessarily limit yourself. It'd be like using metaknight and never pressing the B-button.

Except MK's nado/specials are good and Zelda isn't.
Its more like using MK and never using his down b.

 

[MrEh]

Except MK's nado/specials are good and Zelda isn't.
Its more like using MK and never using his down b.

This.

I lol'ed.

 

[GodAtHand]

Leave it to the Zelda boards to turn this into a *****-fest.

I also love how apparently all of you were at APEX and know exactly how much Earth used his Zelda... why didn't any of you say "hi" to me?

Is Zelda low tier? Yes. Is she bottom tier? I really don't think so. I even think that if doubles counts as much toward a tier placement as singles that she could be bottom of mid tier, but I don't really want to lose her as my low tiers option...

Edit: Does the character rankings list effect tier placement? Because Zelda is doing a lot better than bottom tier on that list.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I was about to say the "where were you at Apex" part with Earth.

Character ranking does have some weight.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

No. What happens is people go "**** Ally has a sick Captain Falcon!" or "DM's Zelda is amazing". People still keep it in perspective and understand that those characters blow though.

If Ally's falcon is sick then Jujux Zelda is full blown Aids.

No he didn't. Using Zelda once or twice in pools doesn't mean you plowed through the brackets with her. If Earth had went only Zelda, do you think he would have placed as high? Of course not. That's why he went other characters most of the time, because Zelda sucks.


Vex got 17th at Apex using Bowser. Do we rave about Bowser's "newfound potential"? Of course not, since he rarely used Bowser in the first place. He went his other characters most of the time.


If you want to rave about character potential, rave about San. He went ONLY Ike and got 9th. That certainly holds more water then "used Zelda once or twice and got 17th."

If I cared anything about Bowser at all I'd be excited. Bowser getting 17th is just as good as Zelda getting 17th. I'm not sure if you realize this but the only put the character next to your name that helps you advance. So in some way shape or form he used Zelda ot advance at Apex on his way to getting 17th.

I personally think she's second worse in the game. She only has 2 or 3 good match ups in the game and ROB definitely isn't one of them. The only reason I manage to do well against some people is due to their lack of match up experience.

You could put her with Sheik but in terms of match ups it would basically be Sheik the entire time with Zelda as the occasional kill move and for the Pikachu and Ice Climbers match up.
Like Mars said I'm not seeing how that would really help Sheik any.

I want all Zelda mains who have managed to do well against higher tiered characters in matches to honestly look back and think of how poorly their opponent played that match up as opposed to Zelda's potential.

When someone knows to cancel out Din's with an aerial, sdi her side smash, punish her recovery and exploit her other weaknesses it makes her pretty terrible.

Only things that keep her above Ganons level are the facts that she's immune to most chain grabs and that she has an OOS option. I guess you can throw in the ****ty projectile and projectile reflector.

Go into detail about her other weaknesses. So if Zelda punished peoples recover with sweet spotted fairs/bairs that's doesn't matter ? If you space the fsmash right and hit with the tip how are they going to DI it? Even though they can cancel din with a move depending on where you are where your opponent was you can punish them. Or you can simply change the timing on dins to throw them off.

Leave it to the Zelda boards to turn this into a *****-fest.

I also love how apparently all of you were at APEX and know exactly how much Earth used his Zelda... why didn't any of you say "hi" to me?

Is Zelda low tier? Yes. Is she bottom tier? I really don't think so. I even think that if doubles counts as much toward a tier placement as singles that she could be bottom of mid tier, but I don't really want to lose her as my low tiers option...

Edit: Does the character rankings list effect tier placement? Because Zelda is doing a lot better than bottom tier on that list.

Character rankings don't mean anything. I think the tier list is made by the BBR just pulling **** out of their ***. Look at their new rule set. Something aint right in the BBR and their reasoning isn't logical.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

On the contrary, most Sheik mains started playing Zelda from the get go......and as the metagame progressed jut found out she was terrible. It had nothing to do with stubborness.

Yes, I have seen so. But even the best sheiks made some of the WORST "professional" Zeldas. I'd seen casual zeldas who played better zeldas than the tourney sheiks of the time did.

Except MK's nado/specials are good and Zelda isn't.
Its more like using MK and never using his down b.

no. Because that ignores the fact that Zelda IS better than sheik in certain situations. To ignore something that can give you an advantage because in other situations it doesn't is stupid.

Though the matchup is silly, and it doesn't particularly matter, a good example of an analogue is sheik's chain. Despite, genereally speaking, being one of the weakest skills in sheik's repetoir for anything save recovery, the havoc it can wreak on any ganondorf when used well make it an incredibly effective tool.

Nothing FORCES sheik to use the chain at any other time, but against Ganondorf, why wouldn't you?

Bottom line:
You have access to an entirely different moveset that, in certain situations, is better than your normal moveset. In those situations, Why wouldn't you use it if you could? It seems insane to me that you'd limit yourself to half of a character.


The better half most of the time, to be sure, but when you can switch so easily, WHY would you ignore that option.







And seriously Chad. You're posts are doing NOTHING to adress that so much as reitterating "Zelda sucks" in whatever is your flavour of the day fashion. If you know better, stop being stubborn and stop trolling. If you don't, try to learn and stop trolling. Either way, stop plaguing the zelda boards with troll post after troll post.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Your post makes no sense. You think that Zelda's not as bad as people make her out to be and then you say she's probably bottom tier.

Mmm. I read my post again, and I didn't mean to say bottom tier. I meant low tier actually. lol

My mistake.

Edit:

Zelda's best used sparingly imo. While I certainly think that Sheik/Zelda > Either of them going solo. You need to use Transform smartly, and know how to use Zelda. Throwing Zelda out there for no reason will probably lose you matches.

inb4someonewantstopickpickpickpeckpeckpeckwahaboutsomethinginthispostblahblah

 

[Darkmusician]

Mmm. I read my post again, and I didn't mean to say bottom tier. I meant low tier actually. lol

My mistake.

No problem. I was just confused is all. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No problem. I was just confused is all. Thanks for clarifying.

Don't worry.

Whenever I say something, I tend to accidentally convey it in the most confusing possible manner that after all's said and done, everyone is left with a blank look on their face and only I'm the one who knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Except MK's nado/specials are good and Zelda isn't.
Its more like using MK and never using his down b.

This.

I lol'ed.

I lol'ed too. Mostly because I don't think I have ever seen M2K go through a match without using down b at least once.

When making an analogy you should first make sure it actually helps your argument.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

MK's down b is the most broken move in the game.

...

...

If the infinite dimension glitch isn't banned.

 

[MrEh]

Leave it to the Zelda boards to turn this into a *****-fest.

How is this different then how the Zelda boards normally are?

inb4someonewantstopickpickpickpeckpeckpeckwahabout somethinginthispostblahblah

Then don't post things that people pick apart.

If Ally's falcon is sick then Jujux Zelda is full blown Aids.

Or maybe Zelda just beats Falcon. Saying that the matchup didn't factor into JuJux winning at all is kind of strange. (Props to JuJux for winning though. At least JuJux is winning somewhere. lol)

Character Rankings do affect things somewhat, but the BBR tries to keep things in perspective. Example, PT rises in the ranks above Luigi. Does that mean that PT is a better character then Luigi? No...it just means that Reflex is being a hero.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

How is this different then how the Zelda boards normally are?



Then don't post things that people pick apart.



Or maybe Zelda just beats Falcon. Saying that the matchup didn't factor into JuJux winning at all is kind of strange. (Props to JuJux for winning though. At least JuJux is winning somewhere. lol)

Character Rankings do affect things somewhat, but the BBR tries to keep things in perspective. Example, PT rises in the ranks above Luigi. Does that mean that PT is a better character then Luigi? No...it just means that Reflex is being a hero.

I have a problem with that argument. Big Lou and Boss have demonstrated Luigi's ability time in and time out. If anything your example proves how fundamentally flawed the BBR and the tier list they produce are. If Reflex is a hero then BIg Lou and Boss might as well be a savior. I don't even want to mention what x and San are but I think you get my point.

So what if Zelda beats falcon he stilled had to defeat other characters and had to beat the person who is considered the best falcon. For a player that's not even considered the best Zelda I consider that an amazing feat. Na, MU doesn't play a factor at all can you please say something about Zelda with A taking away props from the person playing Zelda, B talking down about their opponent, or C talking Zelda down.

Just would like to stat this now. Jujux is the best Zelda. Please acknowledge and support him appropriately.

 

[MrEh]

Just would like to stat this now. Jujux is the best Zelda. Please acknowledge and support him appropriately.

JuJux is good. However...

There is only one Zelda on this list.

I think placing high in singles consistently is better then placing 1st at a low tier tournament. This isn't a discussion about who's the better Zelda, that's always subjective. This is about Zelda as a character. Zelda is bad, and she'll probably remain bottom tier or close to bottom tier as long as her results are poor.

 

[lordhelmet]

Wow AL is trolling here too I see.

Jujux knew the match-up better than Ally, and frankly knows his character better because Zelda is his actual main. Ally didn't start figuring out the MU until game 3 which was almost a JV 3, got too lazy to watch game 4. /meatriding

I'm not too sure about the Zelda vs Falcon MU, it's anywhere from 45-55 to 55-45 either way. I'll have to play Mikey again because last time I played him I was bad.

Personally I don't see Zelda better than Falcon tier list-wise but that's my opinion don't hate me plz.

 

[GodAtHand]

I think Zelda is really better than Falcon.

Just my opinion. I don't hate anyone lol.

 

[AllyKnight]

First Zelda in my entire smash with my Falcon, lmao. Jujux is good, but 1 tournament isn't = my accomplishment overall.

 

[GodAtHand]

That didn't make sense to me... sorry.

 

[MrEh]

That didn't make sense to me... sorry.

...

You do know who Judge Death is right?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think Zelda is really better than Falcon.

Just my opinion. I don't hate anyone lol.

I agree.

or, at the very least, she has the matchup advantage against him.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

JuJux is good. However...

There is only one Zelda on this list.

I think placing high in singles consistently is better then placing 1st at a low tier tournament. This isn't a discussion about who's the better Zelda, that's always subjective. This is about Zelda as a character. Zelda is bad, and she'll probably remain bottom tier or close to bottom tier as long as her results are poor.

You do realize that list only has people from US and CA on it right.....but shrugs whatever floats your boat. I understand DM is your friend and you're going to go to bat for him however, JuJux is the best Zelda.

Wow AL is trolling here too I see.

Jujux knew the match-up better than Ally, and frankly knows his character better because Zelda is his actual main. Ally didn't start figuring out the MU until game 3 which was almost a JV 3, got too lazy to watch game 4. /meatriding

I'm not too sure about the Zelda vs Falcon MU, it's anywhere from 45-55 to 55-45 either way. I'll have to play Mikey again because last time I played him I was bad.

Personally I don't see Zelda better than Falcon tier list-wise but that's my opinion don't hate me plz.

I swear to God you name search Ally.

First Zelda in my entire smash with my Falcon, lmao. Jujux is good, but 1 tournament isn't = my accomplishment overall.

Is this only exckuive to singles? I'm pretty sure you played espy Zelda in dubz.

 

[GodAtHand]

...

You do know who Judge Death is right?

No idea, but that wasn't what I was saying. I just couldn't understand the sentence he wrote... I wanted a re-write or someone to translate for me lol.

Spoiler

Is it Ally? I kinda assumed it was Ally but didn't check...

 

[KayLo!]

Translation: It was his first time ever playing against a Zelda with his Falcon. Jujux is good, but that one tournament isn't the be-all, end-all.

And yeah, it's Ally, lol. It's k Riot, we're all a little slow sometimes.

 

[lordhelmet]

Not name searching, just wanted to check out the other BBR threads dayum.

Still sticking with my post on the previous page if anyone cares

 

[MrEh]

You do realize that list only has people from US and CA on it right.....

It's not a US/CA exclusive list.

Anyway, moving on to actual Zelda talk and not just meatriding...

Still sticking with my post on the previous page if anyone cares

Considering that Falcon's tournament results are probably BETTER then Zelda's at this point, I'm not disagreeing with you there. Results mean a lot, and Zelda has none. The only reason she's as high as she is is because she's grouped with Sheik.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It's not exclusive to US / CA yet the only people on the list are from those two countries.....

 

[GodAtHand]

Is Zelda grouped with Sheik for the rankings list? I remember someone telling me it was one way or the other, but now I forget which it was lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Then don't post things that people pick apart.

Don't be stupid.

This is Smashboards.

 

[MrEh]

It's not exclusive to US / CA yet the only people on the list are from those two countries.....

Nothing is baring any country from submitting results. It's the SWF ranking, not the US/CA ranking.

Is Zelda grouped with Sheik for the rankings list? I remember someone telling me it was one way or the other, but now I forget which it was lol.

Yes she is. Zelda/Sheik's combined ranking is essentially all Sheik's results, but with a couple of Zelda points added in. Although to be fair, Zelda's points are probably still higher then Jigglypuff's...

Don't be stupid.

This is Smashboards.

Try harder.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea when Riot pointed out that Zelda didn't have bottom tier tourney results I was going to say something but wasn't sure if she was still grouped with Sheik.

 

[Shaya]

Actually Mr Eh, that list is America only.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Actually Mr Eh, that list is America only.

**** ***** you just got jacked. Almost 1000000000000 Mr eH zero. I'm styling on you son.

 

[Darkmusician]

Sorry Chad but get blown up.