BBR's Match-up Chart for Wario

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Discussion Thread for Wario BBR MU Chart


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If any Wario mains that were on the panel want to discuss this, or any people from other character boards/panels want to comment on something to do with Wario's MU spread from the BBR, let's do it here.


What do the numbers mean?

[collapse=Ratings Definition]-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable
[/collapse]

[collapse=Ratings Translation - Paraphrased, NOT NECESSARILY EXACT, just my own interpretation.]
-4 -> ~Anything worse
-3 -> ~35-65/30-70
-2 -> ~40-60
-1 -> ~45-55
0 -> ~50-50
+1 -> ~55-45
+2 - ~60-40
+3 -> ~70-30/65-35
+4 -> ~ Anything better
[/collapse]

Further Discussion: (coming soon when you guys make up some arguments/matchups that deserve attention, etc...)

LoLoLoLoL.

 

[xzx]

Lord Chair: Yes, it may sound stupid, but I think actually it is more like -2.5 (then I rounded up to -3). Note that I wrote that it is the stages which makes it that bad, not (entirely) the MU itself. Yeah, it maybe is -2... (MK and DDD is about worse, but DDD has stronger stages against Wario.) But okay, after reading what -3 was I want to change it back to -2!

(S!C): Oh, right! That is my opinion! x)

Sorry if I made you guys "upset", but that list is "according to me", "IMO"! (I have changed back to -2 instead of -3.) Thanks for the critics though! =)

 

[Iota]

DDD may have some stages where the MU is harder for Wario than MK but he also has really bad stages vs wario ( like brinstar) that make it easier. MK doesn't suffer from that and can generally beat Wario on every stage that's usually legal.

 

[PieDisliker]

Actually, I can't think of any stage besides Brinstar/Norfair that makes it harder for D3. Frigate isn't bad for him.... so the only thing that comes to mind is maybe PS2. But I haven't seen, let alone played a match of D3 vs. Wario on there.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

DDD may have some stages where the MU is harder for Wario than MK but he also has really bad stages vs wario ( like brinstar) that make it easier. MK doesn't suffer from that and can generally beat Wario on every stage that's usually legal.

Agreed.

Actually, I can't think of any stage besides Brinstar/Norfair that makes it harder for D3. Frigate isn't bad for him.... so the only thing that comes to mind is maybe PS2. But I haven't seen, let alone played a match of D3 vs. Wario on there.

Lylat cruise ?

Frigate may not be a horrible stage for d3 but when played against wario it becomes pretty bad. It all depends on how the Wario plays the MU though.

 

[PieDisliker]

I actually thought Lylat wasn't a good stage vs. Dedede. To me it just seems like we'll die from a bthrow earlier there. If Frigate's as bad as you say it is, then maybe I should give it a shot for some practice next time.

While I'm at it...


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This are my thoughts on my the list should be like. It's probably a little inaccurate but I made a few changes here and there. I don't think it's a bad list at all. Maybe a little too lenient for us, I'm not sure.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

doesn't the slanted stedges mess up d3s CG ?

 

[PieDisliker]

doesn't the slanted stedges mess up d3s CG ?

I have no idea.

 

[Iota]

No it doesn't. It's not like Falco's CG or Yoshi's GR where slants can screw with it.

This is my opinion on his match ups



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[PMC66]

Well this is what i think



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This is mine honestly I think Mario isn't that bad at fighting wario, i'd put it about as hard as fighting snake with mario. Because even though Wario out prioritises everything mario does, Mario can actually counter attack him out of shield and can out range Wario with his back air. he can chain grab wario with F-throw on 0% to a down throw which can set up some rapid U-airs. I think mario might be able to jump punch out of air release (not good for early percents admitedly) I know he can get the first jab from a ground release which may help you set up a jab cancel to down smash (not guaranteed) and other mix ups with his jabs. I suppose off stage though Mario is in trouble if he gets gimped and killing Mario can't kill for anything and Wario can take him out easy with waft.

Though mario's ariels are faster than wario's and i know B-air has more range than wario's ariels as does Mario's U-air. Mario has fireballs as well though i can't really imagine that a projectile that falls to the ground can be useful against a character thats always moving round in the air.

As for wolf it's not -3 quit deluding yourselves i know wario is awesome but really...

 

[Waymas]

D3 is all about the stage personally i think is 55-45 at most 60-40 i guess u guys dont know the matchup at all you have to play really campy and avoid the grab at all costs , fairs works since is faster than his bair. Just work more on ur defense! Also tires are pretty useful in here.

 

[PieDisliker]

I just seem to be overwhelmed by how well D3 can wall you. Even if you don't get grabbed at all, it's still difficult to get past him.

 

[SAX]

-2:
-1: Snake wins this. Hands down. Might be -2 even.
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1: Ike Might even be +2.
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That's my opinion.

 

[Waymas]

snake vs wario is even !

 

[Krystedez]

*picks ear* (sigh)... Snake is definitely even, I suspect it being our favor on the unity stagelist as well. Hum~...

 

[Labernash]

*picks ear* (sigh)... Snake is definitely even, I suspect it being our favor on the unity stagelist as well. Hum~...

This is my favorite post of yours that you have ever posted.

Snake is quite possibly in our favor. Gotta get that battlefield/brinstar. Once you can mind game the Snake into messing up his double jump off stage, bite the cypher. One of my favorite things I learned from Pwneroni; I use it all the time!

 

[Lord Chair]

battlefield is horrible against snake

edit: its probably the worst stage you can up with against him

 

[PieDisliker]

How so? I feel it's a whole lot better against Snake than FD, Halberd, or PS1. I thought it was better against him than YI, as well.

 

[Labernash]

battlefield is horrible against snake

edit: its probably the worst stage you can up with against him

Really? I always thought it was good. Platform camping and what not?

 

[Lord Chair]

whats the point of platform camping a character with multiple vertical projectiles

 

[Labernash]

whats the point of platform camping a character with multiple vertical projectiles

4 teh lulz???

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

whats the point of platform camping a character with multiple vertical projectiles

to run time and annoy your opponent.

 

[Krystedez]

FD is incredibly hard against Snake. I've played Razr's snake there. It was almost his favor for a full two stocks, then I brought it back. Last hit last stock. But I did lose there by a gr->u-tilt at like 160s...

BF, SV, strike FD, Lylat/Ps1. YI is okay.

 

[Labernash]

I played a Snake on BF today. Did good. I played a Falco on BF today. Did bad.

I think the BBR chart is right. Marth and Peach are harder than D3 and MK. And Falco is either in their favor, or I just can't do it.

 

[xzx]

I would say it is in Snake's favour just because his (disjointed) range. Wario is easily outranged.

Falco is 50/50. I know how you feel, Labernash! The Falco MU is frustrating because we >must< approach or else you will get lasers, and when we approach Falco can outrange us with up-tilt and nair, disturbing our approach game. And when you get grabbed prepare for cheap 50%. Gaaaaah, I hate the Falco MU, it is so frustrating!! A good stage against Falco is LC I think. The tilting and the platforms help us approach and avoid his grabs.

And DDD is just ridiculous. The only good stages we have against DDD is like Bs, RR/RC and LC. Well, maybe FO and Bf too! This MU is just ridiculous, since one grab at mid-high percentages means one stock gone. And getting past DDD is like getting through a needle eye. Nah, but seriously, DDD's bair and fair is just too good against Wario.

 

[Labernash]

I good at chunkin nades back at the guy, so that adds pressure.

Yeah, Falco ain't fun. And my worst stage is LC, so that sucks.

DDD, you lose first match win at a CP, then 3rd is a mystery.

 

[Iota]

You shouldn't be approaching D3. His projectile isn't good enough to force an approach. BF is also a bad stage vs D3 as the platforms provide very good defensive coverage with his bair, u-tilt, and grab. Peach isn't harder than D3 and especially not MK. Peach is basically the same thing as D3 where we shouldn't approach and where we need to keep the lead as much as possible. The biggest difference between the two is that our CPs don't effect peach as much as they do D3 and that peach dies a lot earlier than D3.

 

[PieDisliker]

Well... sometimes I get gordo'd because I don't expect it. Killing D3 is the worst part, imo.

 

[(S!C)]

Well... sometimes I get gordo'd because I don't expect it. Killing D3 is the worst part, imo.

having fun while playing against ddd is the worst part, imo.

 

[xzx]

Yeah, that and NOT getting grabbed!!

 

[Lord Chair]

i honestly think getting grabbed and not having fun are 2 different ways of saying the same thing

 

[xzx]

xD Well spoken! =)

DDD is not fun to battle.