Boss Fights, and why you don't care.

[Sol9000]

Because I fail at making threads.

Now that that's out of the way, discuss possible boss fights. Master Hand is defiantly coming in, so is Crazy Hand.

But what will the new main antagonist? Bowser? Ganon?

Spoiler

Tabuu Again

?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You put spoilers around Tabuu's name?

 

[Gallowglass]

I really like the boss battle idea. It allows Smash to represent famous enemies that wouldn't fit in a normal fighting game. I just wish they had more Nintedo bosses rather than SE ones.

 

[Sol9000]

You put spoilers around Tabuu's name?

I did that to please the newbies, you got a problem with that?

I really like the boss battle idea. It allows Smash to represent famous enemies that wouldn't fit in a normal fighting game. I just wish they had more Nintedo bosses rather than SE ones.

Yeah, Ridley, Pete and Porky were good ideas, but I was sad to see rayquaza get ko'd

 

[Johnknight1]

I really like the boss battle idea. It allows Smash to represent famous enemies that wouldn't fit in a normal fighting game. I just wish they had more Nintedo bosses rather than SE ones.

I like the idea, but it was poorly executed. Petey Piranha, Porky, Rayquaza, Ridley, and Meta-Ridley were all nice boss ideas, but they just seemed like the boring common enemies. They even had a "health bar" that was exactly the same as the common enemies. The battles, backgrounds, scenarios, and "twists" of the battles were generic as a whole.

Smash needs to take some ideas from the games these characters are from for boss battles. Mario, DK (Country), Zelda, Metroid (Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion had some insane boss battles), Yoshi, Kirby, Game & Watch, Kid Icarus, Wario Land, Metal Gear, and Sonic the Hedgehog. You got some of the best 2D (side scrolling) boss battles right there in all of those series. Add in some of the great ideas from the 3D games and RPGs, and you got more good ideas for boss battles that you know what to do with.

 

[Sol9000]

I like the idea, but it was poorly executed. Petey Piranha, Porky, Rayquaza, Ridley, and Meta-Ridley were all nice boss ideas, but they just seemed like the boring common enemies. They even had a "health bar" that was exactly the same as the common enemies. The battles, backgrounds, scenarios, and "twists" of the battles were generic as a whole.

Smash needs to take some ideas from the games these characters are from for boss battles. Mario, DK (Country), Zelda, Metroid (Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion had some insane boss battles), Yoshi, Kirby, Game & Watch, Kid Icarus, Wario Land, Metal Gear, and Sonic the Hedgehog. You got some of the best 2D (side scrolling) boss battles right there in all of those series. Add in some of the great ideas from the 3D games and RPGs, and you got more good ideas for boss battles that you know what to do with.

How about:
Ganon from Twilight Princess
Zekrom from Black & White
Mother Brain from Super Metroid
0 (or 02) from Kirby
Andross from Star Fox 64
Mania/Mana/What's-It's-Face From Super Mario Sunshine
I'd like to say Ocelot, but he's small enough to be a fighter. Sorry. How about that machine thing we say in Shadow Moses Island stage? That would be pretty cool.
Egg Dragoon from Sonic Unleashed (Free-Fall and all)

Would those be good ideas?

 

[ryuu seika]

Smash needs to take some ideas from the games these characters are from for boss battles. Mario, DK (Country), Zelda, Metroid (Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion had some insane boss battles), Yoshi, Kirby, Game & Watch, Kid Icarus, Wario Land, Metal Gear, and Sonic the Hedgehog. You got some of the best 2D (side scrolling) boss battles right there in all of those series. Add in some of the great ideas from the 3D games and RPGs, and you got more good ideas for boss battles that you know what to do with.

Perhaps that was the problem...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The HP system that the bosses used is pretty much the same as what the Kirby titles utilize. In fact, I find it to be quite convenient when you can damage the bosses at any time. Of course, for some bosses, they could be given handicaps where they can only be damaged after they perform certain actions; for one example, Tiki Tong's head can only be damaged whenever the button on its head is exposed.

 

[Frostwraith]

I like the idea, but it was poorly executed. Petey Piranha, Porky, Rayquaza, Ridley, and Meta-Ridley were all nice boss ideas, but they just seemed like the boring common enemies. They even had a "health bar" that was exactly the same as the common enemies. The battles, backgrounds, scenarios, and "twists" of the battles were generic as a whole.

Smash needs to take some ideas from the games these characters are from for boss battles. Mario, DK (Country), Zelda, Metroid (Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion had some insane boss battles), Yoshi, Kirby, Game & Watch, Kid Icarus, Wario Land, Metal Gear, and Sonic the Hedgehog. You got some of the best 2D (side scrolling) boss battles right there in all of those series. Add in some of the great ideas from the 3D games and RPGs, and you got more good ideas for boss battles that you know what to do with.

yeah, the bosses in Brawl were just overpowered enemies. they could add more bosses with different twists (keep the Hands the same, of course!).

I've got some ideas:

King Boo (Mario series) - he could only be attacked when visible.
King Dodongo (Zelda series) - you had to throw Bob-ombs and other explosive items into his mouth to damage him. all attacks directed at him and any other item thrown to his mouth would be useless. this would mimic his battle in Ocarina of Time.
Phantom Ganon (Zelda series) - you had to reflect his shots back at him to stun him and only then would be possible to attack him until he recovers his senses, much like his battles in Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

 

[Blue Warrior]

More percentage-based bosses would be nice.

 

[NickSF93]

I really enjoyed the subspace emissary bosses. Ridley, Mecha (metal?) Ridley, Rayquaza, and that lucas bossguydude. I hope there is at least 3 new bosses (preferable a new pokemon boss, I think those are cool as hell)

 

[Gallowglass]

I agree with everyone that they need more variety in boss battles. With selective damaging areas (e.g. Ghoma's eye)l, You have to fight them off an edge (e.g. a startropic boss is like that), You have to destroy them through a time limit (e.g. Like something was pushing you into a wall).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Aren't bosses supposed to have HP meters though? They're not actual fighters after all.

Sure, Giga Bowser is an exception to this rule, but ever since he became Bowser's Final Smash, that issue is pretty much non-existent now.

 

[Sol9000]

Aren't bosses supposed to have HP meters though? They're not actual fighters after all.

Sure, Giga Bowser is an exception to this rule, but ever since he became Bowser's Final Smash, that issue is pretty much non-existent now.

I mean HP period. For example, the boss fights in Sonic Colors do not have HP, they have a number of homing attacks

Remember my ideas earlier. Here is a more detailed list of how they work:

Mother Brain- Takes place in WhateverWasTheFinalLevelInSuperMetroid.
02- Located in Dark Star, this boss can only be hit in the thing under him that looks like a cactus while he's attacking, which will stun him. A spring is located the whole time, which you use to go above him. When above him you can attack the Halo, which will take a few times to destroy. This is the first health bar. After his shield is down, his attacks are stronger and more likely to hit. I forgot, he attacks by shooting a Lazar through his eye, slashing you with his wings, and shooting Poison Needles through the Cactus-thingy (Eh, maybe not this last attack). Anyway, the second phase is the same, only the attacks are different (read above) and you hit the eye instead.

Egg Dragoon- Taking on the Sonic Unleashed counterpart, this boss will have to be hit in the weak spot from the Wii version, but everything else is based off the PS360 version, only it's 2D. Heck, even the same mooks spawn. One new attack is he switches the fight to a chase (the kind you see in Generations, only in 2D), but only if your playing as Sonic. You just need to follow him, dodge his attacks, and Forward-B into him once he's in range.

Edit: Crap. Double Post T_T

 

[Gallowglass]

Here is a list of bosses I would like to see.

Ganon (Zelda): Either from Zelda1, Link to the Past, OOT or any combination there of
Mother Brain (Metroid): Probably the Super Metroid version
Zoda (Startropics)
Ridley (Metroid): If he's not playable
Koopa Kids (Mario): A gauntlet like fight
Andross (Starfox): A modified version for Smash
Giygas (Mother): Not sure how he would work but a charactehr that need representing
King Hippo (Punch Out): Have to know his fighting pattern.

I know there are more but I can't think of any at the moment.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's a boss list that I composed, which does come from my Adventure Mode plot.

• King Boo
• Twinbellows
• Stallord
• Brobot
• Porky
• Emperor Bulblax
• Kyurem
• Deathborn
• Tiki Tong
• Metroid Prime
• Super Dimentio
• Galacta Knight
• Medusa
• Nightmare

As for the mid-bosses...

• Boom Boom
• Darknut
• Bonkers
• Eggplant Wizard
• Pirate Commander
• Fierce Pork Trooper
• Mature Red Bulborb
• Konk

 

[KingRidley]

Andross is a must, so is either Mother Brain or Kraid. Hades would be awesome. i think the final boss in Xenoblade would be epic.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I wish Master Hand would float closer to the ground So I can stop spamming backflips.
A Boss who actively moves around the screen like Rayquaza would be ideal.
Plenty of opportunities for all types of attacks to come into play... Although I will still probably continue to spam backflips out of habit.
To be honest I'd rather fight characters more my size and knock them off of the stage. But then we'd all complain about them not being playable characters.

 

[Sol9000]

Andross is a must, so is either Mother Brain or Kraid. Hades would be awesome. i think the final boss in Xenoblade would be epic.

A Boss who actively moves around the screen like Rayquaza would be ideal.

Give Ridley a Shovel so he can go underground. Also, Egg Dragoon switches sides of the screen constantly, and in the foreground to use his attacks.

Plenty of opportunities for all types of attacks to come into play... Although I will still probably continue to spam backflips out of habit.

Oops.

To be honest I'd rather fight characters more my size and knock them off of the stage. But then we'd all complain about them not being playable characters.

Big Daddies from Bioshock, Ocalot from Metal Gear Solid and Sigma have Health Bars and you beat Shadow in a race. Problem Solved (if the problem has anything to do with kicking them off the screen).

 

[DakotaBonez]

Thankyou for replying and might I add your signature is depressing!
heheheh... ridley with a shovel.
classic

 

[Sol9000]

Thankyou for replying and might I add your signature is depressing!
heheheh... ridley with a shovel.
classic

Ironically it's supposed to be optimistic!

It's classic because the thought of an alien dragon holding a tool that is used by humans that takes two hands to use practically cannot be thought with a straight face, unless your sense of humor is so dense that even god couldn't move it.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Aren't bosses supposed to have HP meters though? They're not actual fighters after all.

Sure, Giga Bowser is an exception to this rule, but ever since he became Bowser's Final Smash, that issue is pretty much non-existent now.

So, you wouldn't consider Metal Mario or Giant DK to be boss characters?


Sure, bosses introduced HP, but that doesn't mean they have to use that mechanic exclusively. Percentage-based KOTH fighting is what SSB is all about, after all.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Im not sure how much to expect, but it would be fun to have character specific bosses. Mario is giga bowser, Samus has Mother Brain, Kirby can have O2, Metaknight can have Galactic Knight. Pikachu SHOULD have Eevee, but won't. (the whole ash vs gary. Pikachu and Eevee deal). It would just be so much more satisfying to watch Link slay Gannon then Link killing Petey Piranha. Also it gives a chance to show how antagonists see the hero in the final battle. We all obviously see the spooky aura and energy around the bad guy, but how cool would it to fight Link as the hero of time vs. the standard link? It lets you do some cool things with heroes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So, you wouldn't consider Metal Mario or Giant DK to be boss characters?

In a way, yes. I more considered them to be non-playable fighters back in Super Smash Bros.. But now they've lost that status, seeing as you can now temporarily be Metal Mario and Giant DK by getting a Metal Box and Super Mushroom respectively.

Sure, Metal Mario's Melee trophy referred to him as a "stubborn midlevel boss", but he never actually operated like one.

Sure, bosses introduced HP, but that doesn't mean they have to use that mechanic exclusively. Percentage-based KOTH fighting is what SSB is all about, after all.

True, seeing as the false characters and dark characters used the percentage-based system. Of course, the false and dark characters are just non-playable variants of the playable characters.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I think it would be cool if, somewhere along the way, you have to fight the dark version of your character. If ya beat them then you unlock them as a skin for your character. It seems like most people pick the black versions of characters like evil Link and Metaknight, and it would be cool if each character had the red eyes and black skin as a palette swap.

 

[SmashShadow]

If Sonic gets in I want to see Eggman as a boss.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Here's a boss list that I composed, which does come from my Adventure Mode plot.

• King Boo
• Twinbellows
• Stallord
• Brobot
• Porky
• Emperor Bulblax
• Kyurem
• Deathborn
• Tiki Tong
• Metroid Prime
• Super Dimentio
• Galacta Knight
• Medusa
• Nightmare

As for the mid-bosses...

• Boom Boom
• Darknut
• Bonkers
• Eggplant Wizard
• Pirate Commander
• Fierce Pork Trooper
• Mature Red Bulborb
• Konk

I reiterate: I think the Titan Dweevil would be a more interesting fight than the Emperor Bulblax. I also don't think that a (properly scaled) Bulborb wouldn't be even Midboss material.

I'd also rather have a boss from EB/Mother 3 that wasn't as spoilery as Porky.

 

[Opossum]

Ehh...I think Bulblax would fit the bill more, seeing as he was in both Pikmin games, including the Final Boss in Pikmin 1.

As for the spoilers, Sakurai probably doesn't care. I mean, by the time Smash 4 comes out, Mother 3 may be upwards to a decade old, eight years at least. Not to mention the spoilers on Lucas' and Marth's Snake Codecs.

 

[Gallowglass]

I think Gohma from LOZ should be a boss.

She's been around since the beginning and has appeared in some form in many games. Namely her OOT incarnation. There is rumors she'll be in the new Wii-U game as well.

-Can only be damaged in the eye which can open and close.
-Can shoot energy balls from her eye when its open.
- Spawn babys that can attack like common enemies
- Can crawl up to the ceiling and drop down on the player
- Large legs can also stomp on the player as well

 

[jigglover]

I think that the final fight should be you against 50 copies of yourself one-on-one. You have 10 stock, so that means that each stock you need to defeat 5 of your carbon copies.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Besides Master Hand, my ideal boss fight would just be a rival character. Just make him stronger with a TON of stun on his moves so he can combo you into something stupid. Or you can allow the 'Boss' version to break the rules of the game. Like, Marth can F-throw, SH Nair, U-smash, Dolphin Slash, cancel into Final Smash. Or MK can shuttle loop, glide attack, cancel into Drill Rush, Neutral Air.

Now that I think about it, it would be amazing if there was a mode where you can cancel your land fall animation several times. I would call it "All-Out-Brawl"

 

[Gallowglass]

For the next gen in the Master/Crazy Hands series I think when you beat Master Hand a bit he will call forth and summon the Power Glove! I'm not sure what extra moves it gives him but it would certainly pay tribute to a very iconic piece of Nintendo items.

Boss List
Gohma (LOZ)
Power Glove (Nintendo)

 

[Sol9000]

That Gohma Boss looks Awesome!

 

[Johnknight1]

Here are a few bosses I would really like to see are:[COLLAPSE="King Boo (Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World"]You would fight him in a typical Boo haunted house (that is his realm to rule!). It would be a fairly large place, with lots staircases (some swirling, some are just regular flights of stairs), attics (with windows that can have scary things come out of!), bedrooms (with all kinds of closets and surfaces boos can hide, under, near, or around!), long spooky halls (look out for those paintings!), and other kinds of stuff you expect in a haunted house.

When you fight King Boo, he may randomly appear and disappear as he pleases. At some points in the battle (whether randomly, or more often because you "passed a phase" of the battle), King Boo may go into hiding. When this happens, you have to look around the haunted house for him! There could also be Boos hiding all around the house! Perhaps they might even interfere with the battle, or be summoned by their master!

Perhaps King Boo would give you a few audio and visual hints as to where he is hiding. That is of course assuming pay close attention to details. A boss fight with similar attention to details would be The End boss fight from Metal Gear Solid 3 (watch 5 minutes of this, and you'll understand what I mean by that).[/COLLAPSE][COLLAPSE="The SA-X (Metroid Fusion)"]The "X" parasite clone of Samus with enhance powers. The SA-X has the following weapons:
-A basic power beam shot that can be rapid fired. This has lots of knock back. Be sure to shield or hide behind cover to avoid being blasted, because dodging probably won't do!
-A charge power beam fully charge that breaks shields and can destroy platforms. Be sure to run and time your dodges carefully from this attack, or else you will suffer!
-Ice missiles: They have solid knock back. They also make you move, run, attack, shield, jump, dodge roll, etc. slower for about 5-10 seconds (depending on your damage %).
-Fully charge ice missiles: They freeze foes for 5 seconds and the ability to destroy all environmental hazards (except for fire, which it freezes for about 30 seconds).
-Morph Ball Bombs: These destroy shields, and stun you for about 2 seconds if they hit. However, they have a small range.
-Morph Ball Super Bombs: These destroy shields, all environments (walls, roofs, platforms), and cause a massive explosion. Run away or you'll take tons of damage!
-A Screw Attack, which destroys everything but shields. It is basically a one and done, but it does a lot of damage! If you dodge it, be sure to counter-attack!

Basically, with all these attacks, you encounter the SA-X in some sort of space station or futuristic technological area. Once you encounter it, it uses only the power beam shot and charged shot. After about 100%, it dies, and then, the real "main" SA-X appears. If it destroys the floor, you will drop through the floor, and fight in a new area.

I'm not sure how this could work, but perhaps there could a "chase" scene in the boss fight, like in Metroid Fusion.[/COLLAPSE]Obviously I would want a few more bosses, but those are the ones I have fully realized visualizations/ideas of how they would work/fight.

Perhaps that was the problem...

No, the problem with the bosses was that they were simply Kirby-styled boss clones, they were all easy, and there weren't enough "twists" (think of various Ganon[dorf] fights in Zelda, Andross in Star Fox 64, etc). One of the common things with Mario boss fights these days is the boss gets stronger, more complex, and smarter as the match goes on. That definitely should be implemented in smash bros.

 

[Gallowglass]

Okay if any Zelda boss should get priority over Gohma it should be....

With it being Ganondorf's final Smash I don't think it will work the way I want it to. Instead of favoring one style Ganon over the next I like to combine them as much as possible.

First the overall look I'm think a combination of OOT and Link to the Past.

[collapse=size comparison]

[/collapse]

Since the L2P Ganon is more shown it will favor him but with a darker OOT edge to it. Ganon will also bear his Trident. He won't be the biggest boss but still larger than any playable character. His moves will be from all games he's featured in.

Zelda 1
Invisibility/Teleportation
Energy Balls

L2P
Trident throw
Flaming Bats
Phase movements
Quake Stomping (possibly destroying the stage)

Twilight Princes
Stomping Charges (similar to Ganondorf's finals smash)

Boss List
Gohma (LOZ)
Power Glove (Nintendo)
Ganon (LOZ)

 

[StreetPassWanter]

Besides Master Hand, my ideal boss fight would just be a rival character. Just make him stronger. ~snip

I would take that over another fight with Master Hand ANY day.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I think we deserve to know the face behind Master Hand & Crazy Hand, i mean they can't just be floating hands right? Reveal the identity behind those hands in the next Smash.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Regarding Ganon, I more portrayed him being Ganondorf's Final Smash move. It would be a transformation Final Smash, replacing Beast Ganon; an offensive attack.

 

[Gallowglass]

Regarding Ganon, I more portrayed him being Ganondorf's Final Smash move. It would be a transformation Final Smash, replacing Beast Ganon; an offensive attack.

I agree with this and its why I posted Gohma first. I guess they did it like that in order to make Ganondorf's final smash different than Bower's.